I'm not sure if I've said this before somewhere, but here comes:

The idea for a new Provost magistrate skill:

syntax: declarewar y/n <cabal>

As the leader of the Blood Tribunal, the Provost can declare wars against other cabals. When at war against a cabal, the Tribunals can raid the enemy cabal without repercussions. The declaration of war is public, and the news about it will echo all across Thera.

Meaning some neat gecho like:

Marching of troops can be heard from four protected cities as the Blood Tribunal marches to war against Fortress of Light.

Also, there could be a related say the Executioner recognizes and responds to when magistrates ask with whom the Spire is at war with.

Ha! Lets perma!

Nah, but really. This is a function Tribunal has anyway.

note to Batttle Tribunal
note subject Kill ze Battlragers!
note + I hate them, the stupid pig-dogs. Let zem feel ze boot of Law!
note +
note + I spit on you, you village kniggets!
note +
note + Signed, The Provost.
note +
note + Ps - Bring ze guards.

If you want raiding without repercussions thats just nutsy. Got to keep people focused on the Tribunals main foes, no point going out of your way to screw over another cabal without draw backs. Don't forget how advantaged Tribunal is in regards to raiding. Manacles+guards are evil nasty. Even if they aren't wanted, you have some serious benefits going for you.

Yhorian.

And I don't see how Tribunal is advantaged in raiding, it has zero powers outside the cities and that's where the other cabals are located. Defending against wanted foes, yes, Tribunal is advantaged. And if they aren't wanted, they can retrieve with murder captain;flee tactic. The suggestion was about giving Tribunal some flexibility to function in unexpected situations, not about them going warring every cabal of Thera.

Tribunals can affect people outside of their pk range. They can place a wanted flag, put manacles on people outside of their pk range, and their guards can attack that same wanted person.

The ability to bring harm to people out of your range is very powerful tactic that isn't open to the other cabals, but it is seldom acknowledged because there are few who want to play Tribunal.

Bioempathy and Trepidation can both be used outside of pk last time I checked.

Most of the Acolyte powers can be used outside of pk, although they are mostly benefical to the reciever.

The things that come out of the portal by Scions can affect anyone I do believe.

All I am trying to say is that members of most cabals have some sort of power that can affect people out of your pk range.

but they do not have the shear power of the Tribunal powers in defense.

Bioempathy and Trepidation are minor annoyances compared to shackles, bloody shackles, or guardcall. Bioempathy cannot be used by 2/3 of the Outlanders last I heard, and it thankfully doesn't give sequester or cause damage just for getting a return potion out of your duffel.

I don't believe acolytes have anything to hinder or harm out-of-range opponents.

Portal critters are cool, but I don't believe they aggress and they are restricted to within the cabal itself, not in the surrounding areas. I am unsure what level Scions can summon a portal, never having played a Scion, but I don't recall younger members of Scion can call it. And there is, of course, the time-of-day restriction any Villager or Maran considers before raiding.

The Wanted flag is shear power. It does not have a timer, grants a Tribunal with guards a reliable first-strike ability, hinders the movement of heroes and can jeopardize the lives of wounded characters or younglings. From a defense standpoint, it is challenging to enter Galadon and get to the Captain without alerting the Tribunal to your presence.

But back to the main point of this essay, guards. Because guards deal out very solid damage to anyone, regardless of pk range, the Tribunal's ability to defend their cabal and attack within the city is monumental. If the Tribunal were to have membership like the Empire, no one would stand a chance raiding it.

Play Tribunal sometime. Specifically, play a Tribunal at a time when the cabal is at war with a cabal that is not Outlander.

What you say all sounds very nice in theory. There are reasons a lot of it falls apart in practice.

I know a some race/class/cabal combinations tear through guards like wet toilet paper, but my argument regarding guards hinges upon one thing: one level 38 toilet paper Tribbie warrior could still contribute to a defense of the Spire in the ways ten level 38 Flushtressite warriors could never hope to do. Imagine the defense a large handful of midranking Tribunals with a healer or two could throw together!

Maybe you believe I'm saying that Tribunal powers are overpowered, that I'm ripping on the longterm effects of being wanted. Perhaps I came across as though I did not think they could be countered. That isn't the case, although I'd strongly urge characters not to get wanted until they are all grown up lest they go splat. Tribunal powers add significantly to the game, but I think many on the mud do not appreciate the full scope of their effects on gameplay and their potential for cabal defense. That is all.

There are severe, long-lasting, hardcoded consequences for a Tribunal character who attacks any cabal HQ that is not Outlander, for any reason.

Which I think was most of the point of the original post on this thread.

If I got more specific in explaining to him this point?

I think it is a huge point, and I just don't think he has an idea how huge.

It sounds like this thread was dancing around mentioning this penalty, which makes the initial post make more sense to me.
Heretofore I had thought it was a roleplay restriction, not a coded restriction.

If the Tribunal were granted the ability to make war on other cabals, which suggests that this hard-coded penalty alluded to would be removed, what I perceive as defensive advantages could make them virtually unassailable as lowbie Tribunal hordes could defend against heroes in ways the other cabals cannot.

Thanks for contributing to this discussion. Peace.

When a Tribunal attacks a cabal HQ(I think Vindicator is not affected by this penalty. Cabal is not Outlander and attacking includes retrieving the Scales, unless Imms haven't changed that), he is suspended from duty for about one RL hour and has no cabal powers whatsoever during this time. My suggestion was that with this new power, Provost could enable Tribunals to raid a cabal that is practically at war with them without being suspended from duty.

And by the way, lowbies can still defend with guards and manacles in the current system if they don't take part in the raid.

How would you balance this ability out?

Is the Blood Tribunal here to protect and monitor the four cities, or to turn into de facto generals/leaders of the four cities? Is it really their place to go take the fight out of the cities to other cabals?

I guess it could definitely be a strong option to make the Tribunal a bit more dynamic... but how would it skew the balance for Outlanders, Battle, (who would have war declared on them the most, it would seem) and (a distant third) The Fortress?

Is the Blood Tribunal here to protect and monitor the four cities, or to turn into de facto generals/leaders of the four cities? Is it really their place to go take the fight out of the cities to other cabals?

Good point. Maybe it could be set so, that members of the other cabal would have to strike the Spire first before the Tribunal Provost can declare a war on them. The casus belli attained from the attack upon the Spire would last 24 hours and it would expire if a war is not declared during this time.