1) The druid guild directly south of the Loch needs fixed. You can't quit there. Doesn't make sense.

2) There are two times to use birdform. One, when your herbs are about the expire anyway and two, if you got a set full of utility herbs. I don't know why you've made druid shifting suck so bad. Aside from blowing herbs the condor has horrid movement penalties...maybe it gets better the more you use the form but who wants to do that.

3) It'd be nice if the top-tier serpentine staff did something other than poisonous bite. I think it might poison in combat if you have enough natural herbs, but that's not what I mean. I mean that there are like 50 CoW mobs that already poison in combat so the adder's little extra isn't really a perk.

4) Reboots suck when they cause the full moon to be skipped. I think crashes move to the next moon in the cycle (or it's a really big coincidence that it happened that way every crash), why not reboots?

5) I hate dispel with every ounce of my ####ing being.

6) The gayest thing that happened to me was when I was fighting Brinrok and Kasdenn, Shahin, Alardin, and Sharwyn jumped in and made it 5-on-1.

7) The hunt is crazy good and that's probably why Imperials and Tribunals log off or stay in the city when there's a full moon. I can't believe my hunt killed Platious, a hero warrior, without my assistance.

8) A rank 41 human druid would probably clear his range. Too bad I never got Ledauna up to the hunt.

9) I'm pretty sure my playtimes and Amaranthe's were nowhere near parallel, and it sucks when that happens.

10) All of my fights were totally one side. Either I got my ass beat or I beat ass. All of the one's I lost were because I couldn't flee for one reason or another. I hate that. ####ing dispel.

1) Its also civilized if I recall.

2) Its for scouting, the movement isn't bad considering you can refresh while in form.

3) I agree. I don't practice it.

4) Not sure what you mean. I recall it staying at the same cycle when it reboots.

5) Welcome to priesthood.

6) Ok.

7) I tend to agree. The hunt is the reason to become a druid.

8) Yeah, you should be able to.

9) Sure does.

10) Lots of classes are like this. Evil Conjies tend to be the same way. Likewise, a lot of diff warriors are like this, as well as orcs.

I felt like Laenelis was probably the best character I've had since 2000, but no one would know because it didn't fit his rp to really try to get to know anyone or interact. So no one would even really know but me. That is something that is still irritating me.

>2) There are two times to use birdform. One, when your herbs
>are about the expire anyway and two, if you got a set full of
>utility herbs. I don't know why you've made druid shifting
>suck so bad. Aside from blowing herbs the condor has horrid
>movement penalties...maybe it gets better the more you use the
>form but who wants to do that.

Define horrid. Is it much worse than the normal air form 100mvs/fly, 20mvs/flyto 20-30mvs/air room?

>10) All of my fights were totally one side. Either I got my
>ass beat or I beat ass. All of the one's I lost were because I
>couldn't flee for one reason or another. I hate that. ####ing
>dispel.

Dispel is a killer in ganks. I remember bards getting my voker killed with combos like dispel+fiend and tigerclaw+fiend.

I think I lost about 25% of my moves just by shifting INTO the condor.
Fly definitely sucked and I could not fly from Kiadana to HTS without having to stop and commune refresh on myself a half dozen times.

The ONLY positive thing about any of the above is that you CAN commun refresh on yourself without reverting.

I found condor form extremely useful as a wood-elf druid (although I think you were one too?).

It was good for finding people that had fled from you badly hurt, and for getting back to the Outlander cabal to defend if you weren't an outlander. One set of herbs was always enough for me to get across Thera too.

Bearform... now that I never had much use for.

l

Bear form sucked... You took major damage and you didn't dish out enough to make using up herbs worthwhile.

As for Condor. I used it a few times if someone was really hurt, but you can be darn sure I knew my herbs weren't going to last much longer. It had its advantages for getting back to the cabal, but not enough at the cost.

The two forms, though they could be great, are definately a very minor asset to the class. I do remember Amora running around as the bear, and others before her doing very well. I wonder when they toned it all down.

exploited a bug that gave her 5 sets of every herb. When the actually herbal forage affect wore off it didn't actually take away the herbs. So as a bear with 5 offense and 5 protective herbs yeah you should do fine. especially when you got a +20+20 frenzy from your 5 utility herb sets and heal like a healer with your 5 curative herb sets. And of course don't forget the nasty nasty cow's with 5 natural herb sets.

>exploited a bug that gave her 5 sets of every herb.

Out of curiousity, what are you basing that on? I sure as hell don't remember that, and I'd think I would have.

I am basing it off of purple crack then. mmmm mmm mmm so yummy. Perhaps I have this mistaken with another druid but there was someone who was using broken herbs around that time. Either way without doubt amora was a beast but I am willing to wager money with the changes to the game since then she couldn't do it again. and I don't simply mean changes in skills and such but rather changes in player attitudes. (no I don't think everyone is bad its just different now then it was then (more people know more preps (and more preps exist)basically so its more of an even playing field))(yay for parenthesis down with comma's)

compare amora's hunt
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/varchpost.pl?forum-2002/logs?34108

to a current hunt
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?32755

compare amora;s damage reduction with double vuln to wrath (also reference to zulg fixing druid bugs as a result)
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/varchpost.pl?forum-2003/logs?4117

to todays druid damage reduction
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?64675

and the bug board post made by zulghinlour was lost because amora existed in february of 2003 and the bug board was wuped clean in march of 2003 according to this post

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=17&topic_id=1&mesg_id=1&page=99

compare it to the date in the post about amora and wrath.

I give you purple crack.

and on a side note remind me next time I take neps word at face value to do my research again before saying I was totally wrong. I will accept I was perhaps not totally correct but its ok neppy we are all human and make mistakes.

1) There are lots of factors between the two hunts that you're probably not taking into account. These logs are like posting one log with a warrior doing grazes with his attacks from today and another with a warrior five years ago hitting for demolishes.

2) I'm positive Amora does not have a holy vulnerability in that log.

Yeah i know a lot of factors go into the hunt and its hard to compare one to another. That said I was consistently fighting hunts from amora that took grazes and dished out demos and mangles, something your not going to see under the best of circumstances today.

as to number 2 even without vuln holy thats still disgusting. and on a side note was the holy vuln not introduced in that day and age yet?

>Yeah i know a lot of factors go into the hunt and its hard to
>compare one to another. That said I was consistently fighting
>hunts from amora that took grazes and dished out demos and
>mangles, something your not going to see under the best of
>circumstances today.

That's not necessarily true.

>as to number 2 even without vuln holy thats still disgusting.
>and on a side note was the holy vuln not introduced in that
>day and age yet?

It was introduced. I can just tell you that in that log, she doesn't have it, anymore, if she ever did.

From what I remember there was some bug with Amora involving her damage reducing herbs, but I don't think it was nearly as extensive as the scenario you indicated.

Not sure how her offensive abilities were affected but there are logs were she takes scratches from geyeser and graze from wrath. THat is pretty insane damage reduction.

I'm relatively sure the 'bug' was more of a mis-balance related to a certain tattoo which she had which stacked a little too well with dam redux from defensive herbs.

I don't think that tattoo did what you think it did.

I can't be 100% sure, obviously, but without an imm comment there's no way for me to verify.

What it didn't do: affect damage in any way.

Thats weird. I've always heard it was invoker shields, or something similiar to that. Maybe the damage reduction got tweaked but I always assumed the reason why the damage she took was so incredibly small had to do with that.

Did she just prep a lot or what? She seemed to barely take any damage at all. I fought her but not during her 'ass kicking stage'.

>Did she just prep a lot or what?

Must've. It's a cool tattoo (which I won't go into detail on in case it goes out again) but it didn't do anything like that.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think there was some bug that gave her armadillo-like protection so she took scratches from everything. I didn't see it first hand, just overheard some chatter about it. Edit: So I don't get bitched at for trolling, the chatter included that the bug was fixed during Amora's lifetime.

I sure wouldn't mind seeing a new killer druid. I would try it myself if I could get over my fear of playing an empowerment class.

Instead of the moon phases having different affects on communes, they would have cumulative affects.

The way I remember it is that instead of getting affected by the modifiers for your moon phase, you got affected by the modifiers for every moon phase except the current one.

It's a definite boost in power, but it's not one at the level some people are making it out to be.

What really kills me about (some of) the players is that they can't just say, hey, here was a character who was cool and tough and took out the trash in her time. There always has to be some excuse why it didn't really count. We should change the name of the game to Poor Sportsmanship Fields.

You know why Amora got to whip people, in part with a few buggy or poorly balanced things in the druid class at the time? Because she was basically the only power player experimenting and testing the limits of a kind of character everyone else had decided sucked.

Some of it's not repeatable today. A lot of it would be. So what?

I said took advantage of, not exploit. For one thing, as far as I know, Amora's player had no idea moon phases were buggy (unlike seeing herbs stack), and as you pointed out, it was a cool character that did a crap load of pk'ing in a previously looked down upon class.

Even if half as deadly without the bug, that would still have been a lot of kills.

I wasn't really talking to you there, even though it was posted as a reply to yours. Sorry.

I am a very competative person and in that I am not alone within the carrionfields community. When I see other players do great things I applaud them. When I learn other players had advantages over other players I don't applaud them as much. Honestly imagine profesional football if one certain team got 8 points per touchdown instead of 6? Sure they might have the best team out there regardless of that advantage but simply because they have said advantage I am not going to be as impressed with them.

Now football is a sport where rules don't tend to change drastically from year to year but cf is a constantly evolving game. So its very hard to compare players from one time to players from another. As a result your going to see some players reputations grow with time and others dwindle. Expect any successful character that had any sort of special advantage in their favor to have one strike against them in a lot of players books simply because they had that advantage.

an aside taking grazes with all your sups down is more then just a little advantage but even after the bug got fixed amora did well.

Is this bad sportsmanship... well thats debatable I simply think that cf is far too dynamic to make any kind of cut and dry comparison.
it. So in summary, Amora was baddass(the bug definentaly didn't hurt), things are different now, I highly doubt she could do it again. This is my opinion you can debate it all you want but if you want me to eat my words roll up a druid and force me too.

Cyradia's tattoo is insane. Dhaevor was cool too, doesn't mean I think he was that much more skilled than a Marcus or Dwoggurd.

Amora isn't a power player. Her chars before that, and after that, haven't come close to anywhere on the same scale as that level of success.

Most of its not repeatable today, because of the bug fix, as well as because of the removal of that tattoo. Not to mention calls, sunray, etc have ALL been downgraded since then. And if I'm a poor sport for saying that, you should ask yourself why there's exactly one (1) character and player which I relate this to. I don't mind Amora at all, I just don't hold her on the same pedestal as you.

Interesting thread...am I qualified to comment? ;)


1) There were about seven situations I remember where I got amazing protections from herbs. Once of these was when a paladin fought me.
In each case I had 5 protective herbs and it seemed to have to do with the moon phase or other affects. I never understood it really as just as often I would have a bunch of protective herbs and take full damage leading to my amazingly fast suicide.

2) Druids always have and still have amazing protections against invokers.

3) Druids are almost just as powerful today as they were back then. The only change I think is that you are offered near to none protection these days against zombies, guards, earth elementals, etc. Druids are a lot like playing a priest who forgets to put up sanctuary and has the offensive (non-area) potential of an invoker.

3) I've noticed no significant power differences in the Hunt today vs back then. Especially offensively.

4) Briars are not near as threatening today, mainly because of the potential for your target to back then enter briars, flee, and keep walking back into them if they weren't careful. (This allowed you to oppose bigger groups and fight strategically around briars.)

5) Amora didn't have birdform. (Today I think birdform is great for last minute scouting right before herbs go or to intercept a fleeing target. Bearform is useful only if forced dueled and about out of mana, and put up last second ;) Happened with....dakzin?, forget force dueling invoker name.) The problem with bearform is that all protections get nullified when you shift. So you are a non-hasted mediocre offensive form with no protections, who if healing in combat...is healing when they shouldn't be anyhow. And just better uses for herbs.

6) Amora did pretty good I think, no idea how many kills but the pk ratio was 85%. Graveyard was different back then. She got about 8 con from trains and questing put back. She had about 5 to 10 mob deaths. She had a wide variety of enemies, so constant action. If asked why she was successful, some reasons would be...

-Druids were little understood by enemies
-Variety of Enemies as a Scarab
-Same Offensive Power as Druids Today
-Fanatical Agressiveness
-Ability to shrug off deaths and not autodelete ;)

Ironically, I think a druid I played today would beat Amora. I don't think it would have as many kills, but I think it would be more powerful given the higher wilderness familliarity and better suited cabal choices for the encounters. It would have less kills simply because the way the playerbase has evolved and people are higher up on the learning curved and generally more prepared.

-Oh, and an important point. Some characters just click better than others as Aarn once posted. I also played Crystanthia (Yay, I was mentioned in one of Nepenthes roles? *istendil*) who while killed a fair amount, died to Istendil about 20 times in horrible ways. Crystanthia who led Sylvan and was empowered by Jezral pre-dated Amora though.

PS: If any anything was different with druids, I just wish they had carapace upped or some slight damage reduction to offset the priest-who-forgets-sanctuary feeling. Also, it would be nice to have more things to do in Area Explore areas. They have to be one of the most unfriendly exploration characters. Indoors against fire immunities, no options. Can't call of the wild or gather herbs in places like Thar-Acacia, Hell, Oragonia, etc so really really limited. *Oh and customization is always good for any class and makes things fun*

I don't think we've really touched them since I put them back in and made them burn herbs.

There are a couple missing factors here, one of which would be the moon.

6) The gayest thing that happened to me was when I was fighting Brinrok and Kasdenn, Shahin, Alardin, and Sharwyn jumped in and made it 5-on-1.

Just to clarify, Alardan certainly did not, he was grouped with Kasdenn, Shahin, and Sharwyn but always travels with autoassist off, often without even a weapon in hand. As soon as Kasdenn began fighting you I walked away and sat in the Inn, I did not want the fight.

I do not know if it was on purpose that Kasdenn was heading to you to assist Brinrok, he did not express this to the group if he was, but the group was just returning from a short trip to Organia. I assumed it was just an unfortunate event that we bumped into you and Brinok right on the road. I tried to explain my feelings about this in character to you, thought I got the poin across, guess I did not.