I have noticed that those who survived playing their orcs to the 30's are now finding a new group of friends. The Empire. Rarely do you see one, two or three orcs running around without some imperial citizen at their hip or some bloodoathed, or soon to be bloodoathed stuck on their hip.

Isn't this just a bit strange and out of role for anyone within the empire to not attack these creatures, let alone WALK HAND IN HAND with them? Come on Empire Imms, do some policing of your people and start kicking them in the ass. They all should be anathema! Any who in the empire that are seen grouped or assisting an orc should be anathema, no question whatsoever.

With all the bitching about the village and the fortress and why we should have a mage cabal again, this has been overlooked. Why worry about the other #### if we cannot control the current players now?

I'm so looking forward to getting into their ranges and then have to worry about the gangs running around Thera. Good times.

I'm like a broken record with this, but its all about perspective. You can't see the big picture and neither can I. I can share with you a part of what I've seen that counters your claim of orc/empire slumber parties. I know for a fact that the empire cabal was raided sometime within the past week or so by orcs.

And since its a trend, I'll paraphrase Nepenthe too, loose quote:

"If something is kicking your ass, roll one up, find its weaknesses, then roll up something to exploit all those weaknesses and begin ass kicking."

Thanks, and have a good night.

See it has nothing to do with powers here. It's the principle. It would be like.....the outlander walking around with a tribunal or tribunal applicant. They both know each others goals but instead they put their greed ahead of their principles. Or seeing a member of the fortress killing neutrals with a darkie just because the darkie said, "Yeah I'll convert, soon as we get some good armor off these guys, and you did say you would give me 50 gold." I mean how many times do we see the village getting slammed for their RP. Just because it's empire and they are evil they're supposed to get away with it? Come on lets remain consistant if we're going to point fingers at people. Again I'm not talking who is stronger or gangs or any of that, I'm talking principle of RP here.

..imperials working with any other non-imperials who don't want to take the oath. If the Empire can control orcs and use them to their ends, why shouldn't they do so? I think it's a bit like saying that an Imperial conjurer shouldn't use servitors because they cannot take bloodoath.

That Empire is orderly doesn't mean that they should oppose all chaos. In opposing chaos that isn't against them, they would waste their resources. Orcs have two enemy cabals(Fort&Outlander), which are the worst enemies of Empire, as they will never accept to live in peace with the Empire. Also, while the chaotic nature of orcs makes them unreliable allies, it also ensures that the orcs will never be organized enough to pose a serious threat for the Empire. I'd say use them when you can. It is also good to remember that the orc is expendable if something goes wrong. It's not a good thing to fight wars on too many fronts at the same time.

Think of it this way: The time of getting rid of orcs isn't at hand, but we will get rid of them later after the Fortress and Refuge have been destroyed. Meanwhile, we will manipulate and use them to further the cause of Empire. The poor buggers don't have a clue what fate is reserved for them if our plans go right.

Look past the orcish accent at the WAY they talk.

Consider who most often plays Empire.

Do the math.

Multi-kill as needed.

Orcs are tools to the Empire. They obey you, that's fine. But you should NEVER trust an orc. Or consider them 'allies'. I've played Imperials and I'd buy an orc to do a task for me. Like fresh meat, hm?

I don't see what is wrong. What is wrong is depending on them though. Like 'Please help me orc, we need you'. But more 'Orc, you join us or else'

It's all about how you do it. Anyway, I see the Empire as a corrupt government who pays rebels to do the dirty job for them.

Then your view of the empire is incorrect. They seek to establish a orderly society, under their rule and their control. The part where you state the join us or else policy is incorrect as well. You join us and conform or you will die. Since the orc's will NEVER be in empire because of their inherant nature of total disregard for a structural society. They have a chieftain yes, but such is done through brute force not by order as in the empire. And NO the empire does not pay rebels to do their dirty work. Holy #### people get a clue.

You got the goal right. You can play a non-conformist imperial so long as you don't get caught doing it. I have played different types of imperials. You can actually use tools that will never be in empire. You use them until they've served their purpose and if they are of no use after that, get rid of them. You have a very narrow view of what empire is about and how they can be played. I can break imperial law all damn day if I want to so long as I don't get caught.

You could play an imperial with *your* opinion of what empire is, but that doesn't mean the next guy over who isn't a mirror image of you is doing poorly. Most of the fun of being an imperial for me is getting away with things I shouldn't.

You shouldn't assume that your opinions are facts.

I was with you up until you said "Most of the fun of being an Imperial for me is getting away with things I shouldn't." Unless you play only Shadows you're playing an Imperial poorly. The Blood Oath is something that can change the ethos of your character, and therefore, it's not something to be taken lightly. Willfully breaking Imperial Law just because you're likely to get away with it is the epitome of poor Imperial RP (unless you're a Shadow).

.

The imperials want you to sell your soul, so that they can crush you under the mighty heel of enslavement. Often are they seen razing villages and their centurions would kill their own mothers rather than let someone go by without paying the tolls. Hypocrisy is fine, so long as the Emperor doesn't mind. :)

Anywho, gist of the story being, don't expect to predict your enemy's RP. They may, or may not have valid reasons for doing what they do, but I've been seeing people talk about this in game and what Nepenthe said many years ago still holds true in that you cannot criticize someone else's roleplay without forsaking some of your own. I'm sure Khaso and Grurk and crew will start cracking heads if people are violating imperial law and the leaders do nothing about it.


Here's a larger portion of the quote, which can be found here :

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:e72vXdeVKIAJ:www.qhcf.net/archives/archiveview.pl%3Fneprp%3Fdate+&hl=en

"Your enemies have the moral low ground. That means: if you're a mage and you think you see a rager being
unragerly, don't make a big deal out of it in character and call him on it. He's despicable! He's the bad guy (obviously, because he's trying to
mess with your ####, and you're the good guy, see above)! Of course he's going to sink to new depths of depravity to come after you. This
should not surprise you. You would be more likely to be surprised if it didn't happen. In addition, it's not possible to criticize someone else's
roleplaying without giving up your own. " - Nepenthe circa Jul 2000

Also, Imms, you guys should have this on here somewhere if you don't already. Good stuff.

The Palace has become a secondary orc enclave. Anytime I've hit them to raid, if I have Imperials in range or not, orcs show up at the palace to defend. It's pretty crappy all around, because orcs and Imperials ought to have about as much to do with each other as orcs and Tribs, and for the same reasons. Orcs basically stand for everything Imperials oppose.

Give the Imms credit that, if its bad RP and it goes on long enough, there will be smackings around. That being said I've heard people whining about it in game which is bad roleplay. My suggestion? Roll up a paladin, RP your ass off til you get temperance, and become the great Orcbane.

Shhhiiiiitttt hommie a paladin? pfhht!! Throw a druid at them if you want to be the great Orcbane.

n/t