I was just thinking the other day, how annoying and potentially time-wasting lowbie looting is. It tends to be prevolent at cabals and in cities and while I have never done this myself, I have born witness to it quite a lot.

I understand that recently changes have been made to reduce this (corpseguard) but i thought i'd just toss this idea by you, the imms, to see your views.

I was wondering what your views would be on a system in which hero gear remained in the hero ranks. Consider very powerful artifacts and items that adventurer's might find, in many fantasy games these items can almost be alive (it is as though they have a will of their own.) The one ring from Lord of the Rings for example. Anyway, what if hero gear stayed in hero ranks, say from 41-51 working on the premise that many of these items are so powerful that they would 'reject' weak users and seek out legendary ones.

Another reason why this would be good is because I hate seeing my characters (and other characters) one rounded by lowbie looters with amazing sets which they picked off a hero corpse. It seems steps have been taken to reduce the usefulness of weapons when there is a huge gulf in level of player vs. level of item, which i like a lot. But nothing can be done to stop people with 60/60 hit/dam sets racking up a lot of pks early when people have low hp. This would also encourage cabal defense. Anyway, just an idea, probably a not-so-popular one with the vets who can gather a set and hold it, but yeah, give me some feedback. Cheers.

My reason for not putting this in is that I wouldn't want more emphasis put on reaching the hero ranks to play with the great gear. I don't like the attitude of "getting through the lower ranks" to get to hero. I think we'd all get more out of this game if power ranking wasn't a goal for the first 50 levels. This change would increase the incentive to power rank.

The fact that great gear can circulate among the lower ranks is very cool(and there are a variety of ways this happens, (besides lowbie looting which has been restricted ala corpseguard) and creates a lot of situations where lower level characters can have a spotlight put on them, to their benefit or loss. Having that uber set often doesn't serve the low level player, as they can still die quickly and now have to watch their back constantly, especially if traveling with evil groupmates. I know heroes will also engineer their demise by bribing and aiding hunters in their range. It basically puts a big target on their back, without giving them a lot more survivability. But it is fun.

(aside)I might be one of the vets you consider to be able to gather a set and hold it...but when I come across a really nice peice at a low level, I'm likely to sell it for some detect invis preps or return potions, which will serve me better, and not make me paranoid.

The phenomenom of the unskilled player who just looted a hero corpse killing a lot of mages is much more rare than you seem to believe, and really not worth addressing, in my mind.

Here's a peice of advice...if you are having trouble against one of these uber-geared lowbies, ask around, and chances are you will quickly have a lot of allies against them, who also want them dead for their own reasons. I'm not telling you to gang them, but simply put someone more capable on their tail, and you won't have to deal with them if you don't want to.

And finally, the IC reason you gave for this woundn't suit for all cases. There is no reason for a non-magical, but extremely well crafted peice of armor or weapon to reject a less skilled user. To give all hero range equipment limited sentience would be a large shift in our story line, difficult to weave in, and not fit with Thera as I know and love it.

The One Ring, your example, is an artifact capable of deciding the fate of an entire plane. If such an artifact existed, I would consider this kind of restriction. But then, Bilbo and Frodo did pretty well holding onto the One Ring, and they certainly were not powerful. And that was the interesting part of the story, wasn't it?

I agree with Kastellyn. I usually have hero level gear by rank 30 or so, mostly because I get one item per kill while killing other people.

If I see a decked opponent in my range at rank 25, its like Christmas morning.

Also, corpseguard makes it a lot easier to keep good gear in hero range and to further restrict it in my opinion would worsen the gear hording phenomena that exists already.

Yeah, I hate gear hoarders.. but anyone who has ever played an (dark)elf mage will appreciate that it is hard enough to survive as it is without duergar warrior X getting his AP buddy to summon you and one rounding you because he's got a 60/60 hit/dam set from a hero corpse.

The funny thing is, it tends to be duergar warriors or gnome air/off shifters or another such powergaming combinations who tend towards cabal looting, and often at the sub-30 ranks. You don't get many dark elf assassins doing it because to pk with one proficiently the player has to be skilled. Anyone who is skilled will realise that gear is only a help. It doesn't win the fight (in most cases.)

Well. Gnome air/off shifters are, in my opinion, one of the easiest "powergaming" combos to beat up on or at least survive. Even an offensive shifter doesn't have the damage output of an offensive warrior, for instance.

Duergars likewise, have their disadvantages.

I honestly don't think gear makes that much of a difference, unless you're talking about very high end gear (like hell gear, healing gear, etc) or unless you're talking sheer melee classes (sword spec giant, pincering berserker rager, decked virtued paladin, etc). Even then, PK is all about timing and not committing to losing fights, so you bide your time until the deck is stacked in your favor. I usually die to people who are acceptably but not overly geared who I feel I can beat but the dice just don't roll my way.

Another reason why this would be good is because I hate seeing my characters (and other characters) one rounded by lowbie looters with amazing sets which they picked off a hero corpse.

You'd be surprised at how many of these supposedly great loots are, in fact, piecemeal collection of one or two items per kill from their own PKs.

Kastellyn the Devourer of Magic, Lord of Legends

Absolutely. The phenomena of an unskilled newbieish player with great gear from a loot domininating his PK range is almost invariably a very, very short one.

What you want to be afraid of is the guy who kills THAT guy and takes his gear, or possibly the guy who kills the second guy and takes his gear.

I've faced off against many of those players who have taken an item or two from each corpse they make and end up having a very nice set. More often than not I know this is the case, but I was considering it like this:

If those very skilled players can pk a stacked guy with a basic set then they don't even need the items to be deadly.

On the other hand you have the guy with next to no skill sitting around and looting corpses and then smacking down mages* in one or two rounds. This guy has no skill, and undoubtedly its his set which his pk prowess hinges on. So why not just eliminate this entirely? The skilled remain skilled (and thus can pk) and the unskilled have to learn to be like the first group rather than full looting heros. People will still have limited gear, they'll still have better or worse pieces of equipment, just no uber-powerful hero gear. It levels the playing field for everyone at lower ranks.

Also, it keeps full loots in cabals between cabals (or involved parties) to a greater extent. You don't get any level 12 duergar warriors running it to loot because the loot would be worthless unless auctioned.

Now, I was wondering (other than the coding/time involved)what would be your reasons for not implementing a change like this?

Issues with gear circulation?

I was just putting this by you guys to see what you thought. I'm not new to the game (played 3 and a half years) and I like it as it is.

*I can remember a number of occasions where this happened to me, I wish I had logs. I know for a fact in one of those cases the set the guy had was taken straight from a hero corpse.

Two quick options if you can't kill them. Rank past them. Avoid them. Where pk is your friend. Your very bestest friend.

I am in no means whining or anything. I just think that this would make for a more level playing field in the lower ranks anyway. Honestly, I can survive if I really want to, it means being paranoid and stocking up on preps but its not above me to do.

I personally am of the view that if you are a good pker then gear doesn't matter so much anyway. It helps, yes, but its not a necessity in most cases. Another thing is, having an amazing set too young is also detrimental sometimes. I'd say it leads to many many rage deletes pre-40 and obviously makes you a target for ganks or whatever.

Obviously the imms have implemented some stuff such as corpseguard but someone I was speaking to thought this was a good idea so I thought i'd put it up for debate.

This explanation (and it's a good one) has been posted many times.

Lowbie PK is embarassingly straightforward and easy and in that arena, nice gear helps but its not vital.

Where nice gear really helps is in ranking, and anything to ease the tediousness of ranking is my friend.

.