Please make Svirfneblin Detect Invis and Duergar Detect Hidden more akin to Wood-Elven Acute Vision.

That is, they only work in the same room and only display 'Someone is here.'

ICly I feel that on the surface, the light would sting their eyes to much for them to be as decerning.

OOCly, I'd love to see a reduction in Duergar Axes/A-P's as well as the ever so cheap, Svirf Pre-Rager applicants.

Both of these races are capable of class choices that allow them to have the full version of these skills.

Thoughts anyone?

I'd say no to Svirf idea. Personally I don't play them anyways.

As for Duergar, the only possibility I could see is that they can only see hidden when it's night time. Even then you'd see a massive redux in those who play duergar. It's very hard to cover for resist positive and that alone makes it balanced to play a duergar (since to me positive weapons are one of the easiest weapons to find around especially for goodies).

I'm not in favor of this.

I must admit I can't see a down side to it, other than Duergar become a bit more challenging.

1) If I'm a svirf, my detect invis isn't really an advantage anymore. I go back to eating/quaffing detect invis on any non-mage svirf for life like I do on any other non-detect-invis character I play. I probably play a dwarf instead. I already generally play a dwarf instead. :P

2) If I'm a duergar... actually, I just wouldn't play a duergar that way. I'd pick something else.

Making things that are some good, some bad mixed bag choices into just bad choices isn't good for the game.

Is there something wrong with the hide code for assassins, it seems as though thieves and duergar can see an assassin way to easily if he is hiding in most wooded area. I have also noticed that park areas within cities are no longer truly wooded, and if they say they are, you are still seen by said thief/duergar. Is this on purpose or just a crazy code bug?

On purpose.

You don't get to fake out the Kingpin of Galadon Thieves by ducking behind a tree in the middle of his city.

While you might see a duergar axe spec wrecking shop through a certain level range, this isn't exactly a high ranking powerhouse. Duergar Ap's are almost pathetically difficult (behind only drow AP's) to play and play successfully. I provide no uber duergar ap's in the last year minimum as evidence of this. Svirfs pre-rager induct might be slightly more deadly to mages, but lacking any ability to lag outside of trip or similar skills, you shouldn't really fear them.

All in all, I interpret your post as saying this: I like to play hidey/mage classes, but sometimes I get tooled at low ranks by the two races that can detect me inherently. Obviously this is unacceptable as I should be completely unkillable because of my hide/invis ability.

To which I answer No. Likely any immortal will answer the same, if they bother to answer at all.

So your assumption is fallacious. What’s more, you are making an assumption of the response of the Immortals. You shouldn’t do that.

Your assertion that there have been no Uber Duergar A-P’s or warriors in the last year is doubly fallacious. I never claimed there was, and there have been scores of High level Duergar. You can do a search on the “Past Heroes” grave yard to find them.

I personally won’t play any Duergar except a Duergar thief because I feel cheapened when I do.

Now onto another of your fallacies. Did I say I was afraid of them? No, I didn’t. Perhaps I want to hunt someone and not have them see me coming from 30 rooms away? Under my proposal they would still have an advantage over and beyond other classes, but still be susceptible to surprise and assassination to a greater extent. What’s more, they are able to scan and look where other races are not.

As far as Svirfneblin, I included them in this only because it followed a logical line of thought that they would suffer similarly.

But thanks for playing!

>Your assertion that there have been no Uber Duergar A-P’s or
>warriors in the last year is doubly fallacious. I never
>claimed there was, and there have been scores of High level
>Duergar. You can do a search on the “Past Heroes” grave yard
>to find them.

Name a recent duergar AP that's done really, really well, then.

.

nt

So in your mind did Palan suck or have there been plenty of rocking duergar AP's since?

There have been a handful of duergar A-Ps that did all right for themselves, but I'd be hard-pressed to think of one that you could compare to Palan without it being an insult to Palan.

Then I would agree with you.

Get over it. In terms of successful characters, how dare he not mention some of your characters, Drucyrus. Seriously, get over yourself. You're a shameless self promoter.

But if anyone thinks the current CF resembles even remotely what CF used to be like when Palan was about, they have to stop doing meth. There is absolutely no comparison between the two. Throw on top of that the nature of Palan and Jagr and falcon forms at the time and it is almost laughable. I would take any decent duergar A-P of today over Palan hands down. But really, don't take it from me, the numbers speak for themselves.

(*) I've posted my numbers in the new CF and I say again, "I have nothing else to prove."

>(*) I've posted my numbers in the new CF and I say again, "I
>have nothing else to prove."

Sorry didn't understand that statement. Thought you meant the other forum but didn't see anything.

What it amounts to for me is this.

Did Palan have some unfair advantages to get rolling that we probably wouldn't let slide today? That's probably true.

For all of that, he is still often the standard I compare A-Ps to. The bar might be set unfairly high by Palan, but it's still the bar.

Really this is more about reputation than numbers. There was just such a feeling among the players at the time Palan got rolling that this was the guy to beat. This was the kind of character that many veteran players realized they just could not beat with the character they were playing at the time. People hatched schemes to kill Palan, most of which would have required him to be stupid to succeed, and he wasn't.

In more recent history, I'd say Nabburak nearly achieved that kind of notoriety (despite probably being a tougher character overall). Few come even that close.

duergar a-p emperor who age-died, he was pretty damn bad ass and I could be wrong but is he one of the few a-p's to ever get all controls.

There was also a rank 32 duergar a-p a while ago that distended into hero range and was still getting kills, thats something i would also label as bad ass, even if he was killing noobs by the end it was noobs with 10 ranks on him.

<1202hp 900m 618mv> (3 PM) (civilized) (new)
Astilamos parries your freezing bite.
Astilamos deflects your frigid chop with his shield.
Your freezing bite *** DEVASTATES *** Astilamos!
Astilamos is DEAD!!
The Battleaxe of Mondurian glows with unholy light as it steals a piece of Astilamos's mind.
A piercing howl emanates from the Battleaxe of Mondurian as its hunger increases.
The Battleaxe of Mondurian glows with unholy light as it steals a piece of Astilamos's soul.
The Battleaxe of Mondurian shrieks as it savagely feeds on the soul of Astilamos.
The Battleaxe of Mondurian glows with unholy light as it steals a piece of Astilamos's mind.
The Battleaxe of Mondurian glows with unholy light as it steals a piece of Astilamos's mind.
The Battleaxe of Mondurian shrieks as it savagely feeds on the mind of Astilamos.
The Battleaxe of Mondurian glows with unholy light as it steals a piece of Astilamos's soul.
You hear Astilamos's death cry.

Astilamos tells you 'what a cheap bastard'

Astilamos tells you 'I will be laughting when you advance one more rank. If you dare.'

And no, he didn't have all controls, I think he had three. I was very near four when I deleted.

He was a cheating prick in the past too, as was Palan.

Nepenthe, if you want to include those types of players in your A-P list, Tikar wins hands down over Palan.

.

"For all of that, he is still often the standard I compare A-Ps to. The bar might be set unfairly high by Palan, but it's still the bar."

I want to say Tikar put up better numbers than Palan. In my estimation, he didn't have the same kind of presence and reputation, probably because Palan was first.

To put it another way, if we found out tomorrow that Michael Jordan achieved all he did in the field of basketball through massive illegal drug use, there's still no taking away that he was the guy people talked about for years and dominated the sport for years, and people would still be comparing new top players to him.

After his drug use was made public his name was dropped like a hot potato. I wouldn't even think the younger generation even knows who he is since his name has been thrown into obscurity yet, at his prime, the entire world knew him as the world's fastest man and the man to beat. No one remembers him as a great sprinter anymore, maybe an average sprinter who needed to cheat to be great (not that Lewis wasn't doping either, just didn't get caught). Without drugs, Ben Johnson's comeback was short-lived because he just didn't have the natural talent, ditto for Palan. I don't think Ben Johnson's time is the time to beat in the 100m, no one does anymore and no one certainly holds him as the 100m Bar.

It's the same thing as saying Wayne Gretzky was the world's greatest hockey player ever. Put him into the NHL ten years later when he was at his prime and he wouldn't do half of what he did in the past because the game simply evolved. The trap system evolved, the players were bigger and better, goalies equipment became ridiculously oversized etc... yet I am sure many people still claim he was the best player ever because they just don't want to look at how the game has changed over time (not to mention the once in a lifetime powerhouse team he was on at the time.) Personally, I would probably say Sakic, Forsberg or Jagr are better players but we won't ever be able to tell due to the nature of the sport.


Long story short, you can't compare people from the past in a discipline when the discipline changes so much over time. I guess we will just have to wait until a new A-P shows us how its done but I really don't think we will ever see weapons like we did a few years ago (mine included even though I got mine fairly without ganking) because of the smaller playerbase and hugeness of the mud.

I bet Ben Johnson could beat the #### out of you on the racetrack.

:)

*shrug*

It was easier to earn a name for oneself when cf was more unbalanced, true. But this doesn't change the fact that everyone had the same chances. Some people make a name for themselves, and some people don't. Achieving greatness is often a combination of correct timing, luck and skill. We are not speaking of the skill of a player, but instead comparing anti-paladins to eachother. Whether the player of Palan can PK his way out of a paper bag these days doesn't count. There have been great APs after him, possibly some played more skillfully. But none have achieved the same immortality. I agree with Nepenthe here, Nabburak would've had a chance to get up there, but he had some bad luck and #### didn't go too well.

So you're going to have to come at it from a different angle. Palan did nothing outside of the rules during his era.

I simply don't respect people who OOC and/or those who Gank. Never have, never will. I simply dismiss them. If you think these things still aren't going on, you are quite foolish. The only person who I really have some respect for is Jinroh because he didn't gank and didn't need to be a prep whore and still put up decent numbers.

>Astilamos tells you 'what a cheap bastard'
>
>Astilamos tells you 'I will be laughting when you advance one
>more rank. If you dare.'


This sums up my interactions with Astilamos as well.

Let me explain this incident:

After playing extremely frustrating couple hours, getting ganged and full looted by Marans/Sylvans/Random Haters/Marans again/etc I was going to Palace to quit. And got into your quicksand.

Unaffiliated gnome invoker backstabbing people and gloating over it?
Wtf?!?
Sorry Nivek, I just loathe useless grievers.
So I did blow off some steam that time.



And to the original post, I would not mind classes being more balanced against each other.
It is currently “rock->scissors->paper” approach to different classes.

Apparently everybody forgets how one-sided duergar vs. paladin fight is.

Yes, duergar AP can usually hose thieves/assassins.
In turn he is raped by paladins, Marans and Ragers.

Think about it,

-=NNNick=-

>Let me explain this incident:
>
>After playing extremely frustrating couple hours, getting
>ganged and full looted by Marans/Sylvans/Random Haters/Marans
>again/etc I was going to Palace to quit. And got into your
>quicksand.
>
>Unaffiliated gnome invoker backstabbing people and gloating
>over it?
>Wtf?!?
>Sorry Nivek, I just loathe useless grievers.
>So I did blow off some steam that time.

Sorry you lost your temper. Unfortunately, all I have to go on was that once incident. You carried yourself poorly, and that's how I came to view the player. I know you are good with APs and necro's and I give you kudos for owning up to the fact that you acted the bitch in that situation. But still, my one interaction with that character was your player's bad attitude seeping through. You lost it.

>And to the original post, I would not mind classes being more
>balanced against each other.
>It is currently “rock->scissors->paper” approach to different
>classes.

I agree. That's the way things are, though, and we have to live by them.

>Apparently everybody forgets how one-sided duergar vs. paladin
>fight is.

This had nothing to do with our fight.

>Yes, duergar AP can usually hose thieves/assassins.
>In turn he is raped by paladins, Marans and Ragers.

This also had nothing to do with our fight.

>Think about it,
>
>-=NNNick=-

Get over it. Your ego is far bigger then you really are.

I no longer play but thought your snidely remarks needed clarification.

I don't consider myself the biggest and meanest AP.
I just had fun playing one. I never had an urge to prove anything to anybody.

But I believe I am entitled to say I have achieved certain status quo.
I was relatively successful AP who did not excessively gang, had four controls (yes, 4) and lead Empire from shambles to glory.

At the same time you level-sat for a long time and finally deleted when things got rough. You were lucky to login exactly at the same time and place where I was resting after eating certain rock.
So indeed bashing somebody who was already gushing blood, softened and bleeding was your greatest deed.

Btw you never ranked to 42.

That wasn't the gist of my post.