I hereby officially start a petition to remove them from the area list. Really if Scarab wants to protect it as some sort of a holy grail of mudding by only allowing people in by invitation and then pretty much disappearing off the face of the the mud. (Which he has every right to do) Why not just nix the damn thing altogether. I get that he put a lot of work into it and he wants to keep it as he envisioned it and the game dynamics as they stand will never hold to his vision of what hell should be. Mainly because we are a bunch of number crunching eq hungry bastids that will use and abuse hell for its rewards. So nix it, call it a glorious very well thought out area that just was too good for the wretched little mud monsters of today. Thats what I say anyway...

Again much thanks to Scarab for writing it and letting me enjoy it the few times I went through it. But if he can't just let it go as just another area in an awesome game. Well why not just ask to have it removed Mr Father of devils?

What benefit would removing it serve?

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I am not sure about the benefits of having an inactive area on the area explore list are. How impressed is a first time player when he learns that more than half of the areas on the list are closed to the players?
Other than that, it would save you guys the same rehash every few months, and as it stands this whole thing IS rehashed every couple months if not more frequently. And I think last but not the least it kinda forces Scarab to make a decision, does he want it in or out and none of that fence sitting business. Just a few thoughts, feel free to disagree.


Yours truly

- And I think last but not the least it kinda forces Scarab to make a decision, does he want it in or out and none of that fence sitting business.

Why would we ever try and force a decision like that on an imm who spend untold hours creating that area? Hell isn't open right now. Big deal. It doesn't affect how the game is played at all, I have a hard time believing newbies look at the area list, see Hell, see it closed, and actually get upset.

If it stays close, fine. If it eventually opens, great. I don't see the bright side of permanently closing the door on it.

I don't think this area ever went in, nor does it show up in the areas list as far as I know.

2004/06/03 | 40 - 51 | Scarabaeus - The Ghoul Tunnels

That area exists. Try looking under "area explore".

Scarabaeus and I talked and I'm aware of what it will take for him to feel comfortable opening the place again. You're right, it probably won't be soon -- it is not my number one priority, but something is in the works.

no matter what he does to it and no matter how uber secret you make it, there will always be those few who manage to get in and get ids/maps/quests info. Those people may or may not share it, there is nothing you can do bout that and there never will be.

IMHO what Scarab is trying to do is to prevent the unpreventable and trying to achieve the impossible, and enforce the unenforceable. Im sorry but thats just the way it is and will always be. You cant ever have players forget what their previous character learned. So you guys either leave people to enjoy it or you take it out and give it an honorable funeral...

Or they could just change it every time a party goes through, so that it's never the same twice. That would be a ton of work, but it would accomplish what you describe as impossible.

And probably the room description to remove clues to stuff that isn't true anymore and etc. etc. etc. What you are talking about would require rewriting the area that any explorers got to. It is impossible in practical terms IMHO.

Laearrist

Well, I never said it was "practical". And really, I wasn't thinking of a total rewrite. Say there's a pass phrase for some part, that's hidden in a room description somewhere. Move it to a different item in a different room. That sort of thing.

No real point in doing something unless its practical Isildur...

In general I disagree, but that might be true w/ regard to the topic at hand.

So, do something practical, like what I described in the last post. Wherever there is a pass phrase, change the pass phrase and move it to a different room & object in the area. Do the same for other mechanisms that aren't pass phrases, but that work similarly.

Then you're just letting people do one door over and over until they have all the pass phrases to every door etc. No they don't have to explore, just spout a bunch of pass phrases at every room and see what happens. It isn't practical to change the area in any significant way unless you're dumping a TON of new content in at the same time, which isn't practical in an of itself. If it's gonna be open, some amount of info sharing has to be accepted as "going to happen" however undesirable it may be.

Maybe I didn't do a good job of explaining what I was suggesting. Say the phrase "Open Sesame!" opens some door. That phrase is written somewhere on a hidden item in some room. So, once a party goes through, the area is edited. The phrase is changed to something else, and moved to a new location in the area. This can be done as many times as necessary, since the phrase words don't have to actually "mean" anything. Maybe the next time through, they'll be "Xasdfasd Aasdfasd".

Now, unfortunately I don't think that would satisfy Scarab, since I would assume he'd want to have each secrety thing to be well-thought-out and meaningful, rather than simply an exercise of scouring every room for a pass phrase. Therein is the problem. If the progged parts of the area were simpler then it would be simpler to alter them in such a way that they'd remain "meaningful" yet would still require exploration. But they're (largely) not, so one can't.

At this point who cares, in another year only about 20 die hard people are going to be playing this game anyway.

Will you still be here posting about how only 20 people play?

Probably :P

for any practical reasons. Anyone who would actually do that is, IMHO, nuts and needs help.

I was trying to make a point, but it looks like you made it for me.

If the situation hasn't changed since I last played, Hell still sort of invite only. I say keep it that way. People have shown they want to act childishly in regards to game secrets on this area so keep it a rarity that anyone gets allowed in.