Here's the scenario I envision:

Person 1 is in an unlit room.

Person 2 is in a lit room in the same area, and cannot see in the dark.

How about making it so that person 2 can't see person 1 via the "where" command, since person 2 can't see in the dark? Or maybe just see "someone" in the unlit room, or "someplace dark". Something like that.

Maybe this would only apply to stealth classes. That would make hiding in the shadows much more realistic and strategic, I think.

What do you think? Negative funstick points? Not cool enough to bother with?

what do the Imms think?

This would make chasing and avoiding people harder to those without infravision, greatly increasing the importance of infravision or dark vision(as wearing glowing gear is not seeing in the dark). This could be a neat addition to stealth classes.

Yep. That is another benefit. It makes dark vision and infravision that much more useful.

I'm not sure how having a glowing object or a light would affect this scenario, for the person in the dark or the person in the light. I think it's fair to say that since lights only affect the rooms you're in, however, that it wouldn't necessarily reveal the hidden character. But would the hidden character's light reveal him? Or his glowing object, for that matter? It'd be interesting to see how this was implemented, balance wise.

>This would make chasing and avoiding people harder to those
>without infravision, greatly increasing the importance of
>infravision or dark vision(as wearing glowing gear is not
>seeing in the dark). This could be a neat addition to stealth
>classes.

Would also piss off huge numbers of people.

...since esentially unless you were one of the races with infravision, you'd be waiting to be picked off by a gang of duergar or whatever.

>Would also piss off huge numbers of people.

Including myself to some extent, even though it's neat and I like the realism of it. The idea is neat, but it does make the game more complex and hunting/seeing people coming more arduous for those without infravision.

Let me break it down a bit.

Classes with Infra/Darkvision: Shaman, Healer, Druid, Transmuter, Shapeshifter, Conjurer, Invoker, Ranger, and Assassin.

Classes without Infra/Darkvision: Warrior, Bard, Berserker, Anti-Paladin, Paladin, and Thief.

Races with Infra/Darkvision: Elf, Half-Elf, Dark Elf, Half-drow, Wood-Elf, Felar, Dwarf, Duergar, Gnome, Svirfnebli, and Orc.

Races without Infra/Darkvision: Human, Storm Giant, Cloud Giant, Fire Giant, Arial, Minotaur.

There are then nine classes with access inherent in the class to be able to see in the dark, as opposed to six that cannot.

There are eleven races with this inherent, six without it.

From the numbers then there are 16* possible race/class combinations that do not recieve infra/darkvision.

There are 83* race/class combinations that either have this as a skill or as an inherent ability.

I know this does not take into account the popularity of some race/classes over others, but by the numbers there are few classes that this would be detremental to, and as such might warrent thinking about not taking those particular classes. I mean, roughly 6% of the race/classes would be at a disadvantage. It would also provide giants more of a disadvantage than just their respective vulnerabilities.

I am not trying to argue for or against this idea, but before we start saying, "Well this would be detremental to many characters..." I wanted to point out it is not as significant as you think. It would actually give people a reason to keep dark/infravision up all the time. And this would only take affect at night anyway.

The only thing I would argue for if this did get the Imms indorsement is for Theives to finally get dark vision. I never did understand why they did not recieve it.



*These numbers are what I could count up, using pen and paper, so they may or may not be 100% accurate.

That the most popular race(s) of the most popular class is affected by this change?

Bonus points if you thought giant warriors like me

Extra bonus points if you picked up on the My Cousin Vinny similarities to the question.

>Let me break it down a bit.
>
>Classes with Infra/Darkvision: Shaman, Healer, Druid,
>Transmuter, Shapeshifter, Conjurer, Invoker, Ranger, and
>Assassin.
>
>Classes without Infra/Darkvision: Warrior, Bard, Berserker,
>Anti-Paladin, Paladin, and Thief.
>
>Races with Infra/Darkvision: Elf, Half-Elf, Dark Elf,
>Half-drow, Wood-Elf, Felar, Dwarf, Duergar, Gnome, Svirfnebli,
>and Orc.
>
>Races without Infra/Darkvision: Human, Storm Giant, Cloud
>Giant, Fire Giant, Arial, Minotaur.
>
>There are then nine classes with access inherent in the class
>to be able to see in the dark, as opposed to six that cannot.
>
>
>There are eleven races with this inherent, six without it.
>
>From the numbers then there are 16* possible race/class
>combinations that do not recieve infra/darkvision.
>
>There are 83* race/class combinations that either have this as
>a skill or as an inherent ability.
>
>I know this does not take into account the popularity of some
>race/classes over others, but by the numbers there are few
>classes that this would be detremental to, and as such might
>warrent thinking about not taking those particular classes. I
>mean, roughly 6% of the race/classes would be at a
>disadvantage. It would also provide giants more of a
>disadvantage than just their respective vulnerabilities.
>
>I am not trying to argue for or against this idea, but before
>we start saying, "Well this would be detremental to many
>characters..." I wanted to point out it is not as significant
>as you think. It would actually give people a reason to keep
>dark/infravision up all the time. And this would only take
>affect at night anyway.
>
>The only thing I would argue for if this did get the Imms
>indorsement is for Theives to finally get dark vision. I
>never did understand why they did not recieve it.
>
>
>
>*These numbers are what I could count up, using pen and paper,
>so they may or may not be 100% accurate.

Well, if you are lit up like a christmas tree with your own glowing gear, I don't need infravision or darksight to see you a mile off.

nt