Someone mentioned at some point that the staff understood bedouins were lacking something, and that there was a plan or some ability that'd be implimented to improve them.

Did they end up getting something already? They pretty much lost all their lagging and movement draining moves, and gained very little in power. Deserts were also the least common type of terrain out there (pretty much the sands south of hamsah, as far as pk goes).

So I ask Santa Zulg, honey, if you could reveal what it was you peeps had planned, or maybe implement an idea that'd improve them?

I'd consider giving them a spell to make magic quicksand in desert-y areas or something similar, it fits the class and would be a great replacement for snare. Or at least give them bearcharge back. Something along those lines.

Yhorian

I agree with this and had a few ideas. Note: I've played one bedouin/survivalist in mid-2007 and got to 45 before deleting.

I'd increase what dervish dance does in terms of damage output. I was a fire giant and could never seem to get above MUTIALTES despite using this skill primarily in deserts and having fast camo. Adding some potential malediction based on weapon type as an added perk would also add value to this. Also, my experience was that this was a bad move in 1-1 PKs. I realize not all skills are meant for all situations but something to make this a viable choice in 1-1 still seems like a good idea. This is the bedouin's capstone skill after all.

I would upgrade the dirt kick thing in non-desert areas and tweak the resistance to dirt kick to include any kind of dust based attack, e.g., blindness dust, poison dust and faerie fog-like spells. The first part is just a balance thing, imho, for the dearth of deserts in Thera overall. I think the second fits from the overall theme and could also be made into a skill.

Deserts have very hot/dry but also potentialy violent weather. So how about a level 20 spell called 'dessicate' that makes the target dying of thirst. As for violent weather: give them cast 'flash flood'. If there is a real bad rain event in the desert a bedouin could cast this spell (It needs to be a niche thing) to call forth a flash flood. Potential effects: randomly disperse all PK-enemies in room to a room in nearest non-desert area, damage (water-based), and/or lag.

How about a replacement skill for snare per se that allows the bedouin to superheat a patch of sand in the desert (during daytime only) such that anyone in PK who crosses it will get hit with a mini-immolation type affect. The sand patch stays for some fixed time before dissipating, again, a snare replacement. It could even lag for just a little bit and lightly drain moves. Skill name = "black sand".

A spell: cast 'sundog' Castable only during the day when outside (more potent in the desert), this spell calls forth a sundog centered on the caster that moves with the caster. This decreases the likelihood that any offensive skill/spell/commune/power that starts combat combat will succeed. It makes the caster appear to be slightly displaced from their original position. Even offensive moves that in theory can not be avoided under normal circumstances could be sundogged. Once combat is underway the spell dissipates.

Give bedouins charge back. Allow fashion skills to imbue with heat. Allow control weather to influence the severity of whirling simoon.

>I'd increase what dervish dance does in terms of damage
>output. I was a fire giant and could never seem to get above
>MUTIALTES despite using this skill primarily in deserts and
>having fast camo. Adding some potential malediction based on
>weapon type as an added perk would also add value to this.
>Also, my experience was that this was a bad move in 1-1 PKs. I
>realize not all skills are meant for all situations but
>something to make this a viable choice in 1-1 still seems like
>a good idea. This is the bedouin's capstone skill after all.

I recently did demos with this skill against non-vulns. Two hits also makes the person feint a round. All in all, this is not that bad of a skill.


>I would upgrade the dirt kick thing in non-desert areas and
>tweak the resistance to dirt kick to include any kind of dust
>based attack, e.g., blindness dust, poison dust and faerie
>fog-like spells. The first part is just a balance thing, imho,
>for the dearth of deserts in Thera overall. I think the second
>fits from the overall theme and could also be made into a
>skill.

I wouldn't have a problem with the first part of this. I could only see the "resistant to fog" available in the desert. I think they already resist blindness dust.

>Deserts have very hot/dry but also potentialy violent weather.
>So how about a level 20 spell called 'dessicate' that makes
>the target dying of thirst. As for violent weather: give them
>cast 'flash flood'. If there is a real bad rain event in the
>desert a bedouin could cast this spell (It needs to be a niche
>thing) to call forth a flash flood. Potential effects:
>randomly disperse all PK-enemies in room to a room in nearest
>non-desert area, damage (water-based), and/or lag.

Dessicate seems like a bandaid on a gaping wound. The other stuff doesn't really seem to fit. How about a "call sandstorm" spell instead? It would be like an area whirling simoon in a desert. However, this doesn't really fix any of their "outside the desert" viability, but would certainly make them nastier in the deserts, which is what I feel they are lacking.


>A spell: cast 'sundog' Castable only during the day when
>outside (more potent in the desert), this spell calls forth a
>sundog centered on the caster that moves with the caster. This
>decreases the likelihood that any offensive
>skill/spell/commune/power that starts combat combat will
>succeed. It makes the caster appear to be slightly displaced
>from their original position. Even offensive moves that in
>theory can not be avoided under normal circumstances could be
>sundogged. Once combat is underway the spell dissipates.

This doesn't make sense to me either.

>I recently did demos with this skill against non-vulns. Two
>hits also makes the person feint a round. All in all, this is
>not that bad of a skill.

Yeah, I remember this skill being brought up by someone else awhile back and someone (possibly Zulgh?) saying he'd check. So maybe some tweaking has been done since my aborted attempt at a hero ranger.

>I wouldn't have a problem with the first part of this. I could
>only see the "resistant to fog" available in the desert. I
>think they already resist blindness dust.

Only fought an assassin 3 times, and never got a blindness\poison dust nor had an opportunity to test it. But I think this is a simple and needed tweak to allow the furrowed gaze bit of this kit apply to anything "dusty". Maybe link it to sandswirl...

>Dessicate seems like a band aid on a gaping wound. The other
>stuff doesn't really seem to fit. How about a "call sandstorm"
>spell instead? It would be like an area whirling simoon in a
>desert. However, this doesn't really fix any of their "outside
>the desert" viability, but would certainly make them nastier
>in the deserts, which is what I feel they are lacking.

Lots of spell options here. I just do not recall much lighting in the deserts. My feeling that the whole control weather worse, call lighting target thing is just not too workable as a Bedouin. Altho, maybe being a dumb fire giant did not help matters. So something else that fits with the theme is what I was after. And dessication and flash floods are certainly desert phenomena. How often were up able to get a lighting strike in the desert?

Re: Sundog.

Go to wikipedia or flickr for a picture/explanation. I'm thinking that a Bedouin might have some affinity for basic sun magic and that this could be a potential additional spell for them, and one that is usable in any outdoor environment. That's what I feel they need as deserts are rare and many of the spells/skills of the Bedouin kit do not port well to other terrains.

In the end I don't think much is needed, esp. if dervish dance has been improved. (Did you notice it getting worse out of the desert?) I think adding/upgrading the dust resistance irrespective of terrain, changing something in the magic department and a snare-like replacement for snare would probably solve the riddle.

Desert rangers are versed in using the sun as an ally in their hunts. By using careful positioning in combat to keep himself between his foe and the sun, a bedouin can:

(just a few ideas, not meant to all work at the same time or with the same skill)

-enter command to negate a round of combat? (angel's wing with a side of setup a la owaza?)
-be extra dodgy/ripostey? (automatic a la rebounding strike)
-be extra evadey? (automatic skill)
-be extra hard to engage in combat?
-get extra hits?

Works best in desert/full sun. Works less and less with varying degrees of sunshine/cloudiness. Doesn't work at night.

If automatic, it can be a togglable skill - offensive, defensive, and utility settings?

I like the idea of a bedouin ranger knowing instinctively to put their back to the sun and fighting that way.

I read up on desert warfare from wikipedia and saw that one thing they mention is an enemy's lack of cover if they're unfamiliar with the terrain. How about the opposite of a "swampmire/rebounding strike" skill being that in the desert, you just hit the enemy more, since you know the terrain and they don't. This could either manifest itself as an extra hit or just hitting more often (as though hitroll were a lot higher), as seen fit by the imms.

Also, how about a replacement for snare being something like "mirage". It wouldn't be magic-based, but an intimate knowledge of "bending light to make a far-off object appear closer than it is".

Basically, it could be used to create a false exit. If you step into that exit, rather than snared, you become disoriented (kind of like the effect of confusion or neuro poison). The check would be saves vs. mental. Yes, this would be really low rent in comparison to snare, but considering that it could mess up how people move and such, that could be deadly in itself if placed properly.

I think the imm point of view is that they don't want a bunch of Scion rangers.

In my surfing of Wikipedia, one thing mentioned about these desert rangers (aside from being "fierce fighters") is that they are well-known as skilled trainers of falcons, often using falcons to help hunt game.

When you think about rangers, it makes sense that some form should be doing some falconry (far different from the kinship type deal of beastmasters).

So, how about this:

Bedouins can get this one little skill in the twenties or thirties:

call falcon:
Similar to call lightning, cuz you don't have to be next to the person, just in the same area, and calls a falcon to flyto the person and start pecking his ass. Nothing strong like beastcall, just engages the target in battle with this weakish but dodgy mob, giving a way for a bedouin to halt/slow the target's movement temporarily so he can try to catch him. Wouldn't work indoors, underground, etc.

Hopefully this wouldn't be the only thing to make up for entangle/snare loss, but this is a good start.

Actually, quicksands are generally found in marshes/jungles. It's a misconception that they are actually in the desert.

And he was in the North African Sarahan Desert. So I think you're a bit mistaken.

Well, yah learn something new every day, dontcha?

Yhorian

Because everything you see on TV is 100% accurate... :P

Also note, that I said generally are found in jungles/marshes, as opposed to deserts.

Go look it up in an encyclopedia sometime.

>Someone mentioned at some point that the staff understood
>bedouins were lacking something, and that there was a plan or
>some ability that'd be implimented to improve them.
>
>Did they end up getting something already? They pretty much
>lost all their lagging and movement draining moves, and gained
>very little in power. Deserts were also the least common type
>of terrain out there (pretty much the sands south of hamsah,
>as far as pk goes).
>
>So I ask Santa Zulg, honey, if you could reveal what it was
>you peeps had planned, or maybe implement an idea that'd
>improve them?

I have no idea what was discussed, someone else would have to chime in.

>I'd consider giving them a spell to make magic quicksand in
>desert-y areas or something similar, it fits the class and
>would be a great replacement for snare. Or at least give them
>bearcharge back. Something along those lines.

Again, not sure any of this feels right to me, but I agree they need something.