The veil is cool. I like it, and I think the idea of character actions affecting the Theran landscape as a whole should apply to cabal items universally.

I think the possession of other cabal items should, rather than simply depriving the enemy of their powers, affect other external factors as well.

Maybe when Scion holds 3 other cabal items, the day (sun is up) time shortens by half. Maybe when they hold 5, it's always dark, and other nefarious things happen as well.

What if, as Empire collected cabal items, the radius and areas in which they could call Centurions increased.

What if, as Outlander collected cabal items, rooms started turning spontaneously into wilderness and at the far end of the spectrum, city guards started leaving their posts?

This, obviously, is a big project idea. I do think that it would generate some epic cabal wars, create more tenuous alliances as groups form to combat strengthening enemies, and help draw in uncaballed characters to the cabalwars scene. It would also create some stellar RP opportunities. Cabal leaders would really have to put their money where their mouth is when it comes to alliances and peace treaties. When there's no incentive for Empire to raid Trib, it's easy enough for them to say "well, they like order, so it's cool." In this scenario, Empire has to decide whether peace with tribunal is worth foregoing the ability to convert cityguards into centurions, or whatever their last "level" of power would allow.

I'll stop here, in the (likely) event that this gets the big thumbs down. If you like it, we can talk about other ideas.

T

nt

>The veil is cool. I like it, and I think the idea of
>character actions affecting the Theran landscape as a whole
>should apply to cabal items universally.
>
>I think the possession of other cabal items should, rather
>than simply depriving the enemy of their powers, affect other
>external factors as well.
>
>Maybe when Scion holds 3 other cabal items, the day (sun is
>up) time shortens by half. Maybe when they hold 5, it's
>always dark, and other nefarious things happen as well.
>
>What if, as Empire collected cabal items, the radius and areas
>in which they could call Centurions increased.
>
>What if, as Outlander collected cabal items, rooms started
>turning spontaneously into wilderness and at the far end of
>the spectrum, city guards started leaving their posts?
>
>This, obviously, is a big project idea. I do think that it
>would generate some epic cabal wars, create more tenuous
>alliances as groups form to combat strengthening enemies, and
>help draw in uncaballed characters to the cabalwars scene. It
>would also create some stellar RP opportunities. Cabal
>leaders would really have to put their money where their mouth
>is when it comes to alliances and peace treaties. When
>there's no incentive for Empire to raid Trib, it's easy enough
>for them to say "well, they like order, so it's cool." In
>this scenario, Empire has to decide whether peace with
>tribunal is worth foregoing the ability to convert cityguards
>into centurions, or whatever their last "level" of power would
>allow.

There are some interesting concepts in here. I think the biggest obstacle to overcome is that you can't make the taking of other cabal items put the victor that much ahead or all you will do is force the pendulum to stop swinging in that cabalwar. There always has to be a viable counter-raid scenario and if all you are doing is piling power upon power to the winner it's not going to work.

These examples are probably craptastic, but they are just to give ideas of how you might generally approach this without screwing up the balance of cabalwars.

***

If Outlander captures the Tribunal cabal item, then bounty prices could decrease, causing more trust in anarchy than legal justice, and vice versa.

If any member of Herald is in possession of any cabal item, maybe libraries and inns across Thera close shop until the crisis is over. Or else maybe the price of food and drinks decrease as a diplomatic measure.

If Scions possess any order item, then maybe city NPCs start disappearing, as dark scholars across Thera get bolder about sacrificing or experimenting on other people. Maybe something similar happens to mage NPCs if Battle gains the Scion or Nexus items.

***

Cabal wars could also affect the inner politics of a cabal. For instance, if Empire holds the Fortress or Tribunal item, then maybe evil Tribunals have an advantage in being promoted over good Tribunals, since the Empire is in the background pulling strings.

Similarly, cabalwars with Nexus could influence how neutral PCs fare in the inner politics of their respective cabals.

What about a lessening of your cabal powers success/power when you have 3 items. You then have the choice of taking 3 enemy cabal items but risk not deathblowing as often or beasts not heading your call. You have huge areas to chameleon in but no beasts to call makes the cabal leaers have to make tactical decisions about who's items they take. If it resulted in less items being taken it would result in more open warfare rather than war at the cabal.

-----Abernyte

>There always has to be a viable counter-raid scenario and if all you >are doing is piling power upon power to the winner it's not going to >work.

It will still. The fact, that villagers get +5dr from having codex does not makes them overpowered, does not make them unable to retrieve from, does not make them more and more powerful if they get codex several times.

Same with, lets say, cityguards leaving their duties to spend the rest of their life on pastoral wilderness (*laughs*). That does not make Tribunals unable to retrieve.

But what I really like about that idea, that it grants new flavour to old cabalwars. Honestly saying, the reason, why I am bothering (from my OOC view) with raid/reraid when caballed is PK only. Without it, its just 'go kill the mob'. Nothing funny. But with this it will really be like I am helping my Cabal to achieve it's goals.

Make Outlanders able to ruin the mines/shops for some time. Make Imperials able to expand their law and influence somehow (it should be hard, very expensive and require competent leader, but it should be avalaible). Make Scions being able to do something (lets say, raid Fort and Outlanders) and the day will be shorter, yes.

It will bring much more fun than some area rewriting or adding new area, I think.

I've submitted a form of this idea many times in the last several years...

I can't find the rest, but here's from my Scion Trannie's deletion thread in February 2004: http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=4&topic_id=24857&mesg_id=24862&page=

So, I understand your argument about the pendulum thing, but I don't think it would be as bad, and things can be created purposefully to keep what you said happens, from happening. Things will naturally balance. For example, evil Sylvans aren't gonna be happy when Marans have extended powers to harm them, so they may band together with others to fight their more prevalent foe. Not only that, the additions could be specifically designed to cause irritation between those who are normally allies. Here's a few examples, focusing mainly on the Fortress, since everyone picks Scion/Empire/Outlander benefits as examples...

----
Fortress in Power
When the Fortress is in power, daylight may be extended, and causes the sun to shine bright, particularly near the Fortress. In nearby areas, such as the Open Plains, Osendrelle, Voralian City, and Tir Talath, the sun has a chance to de-hide/camo/duo any non-good PC and envelop them with a revealing glow (aka. faerie fire). At extreme extents of power (which should be incredibly hard to maintain) the revealing ability extends all the way to Hamsah and Galadon. Evil and neutral outlanders will be furious, along with all non-good hiding/camo/duo'ing PC's, from Tribunals to Villagers. Nexus, Empire and Scion will be fighting them anyways. Neutral Druids with Sunray however, may take to a killing spree.

On the other hand, the Fortress leader has the option to focus the orb's power to ask for compassion from the Higher Planes. Magical safe havens will emerge in the wilderness, guarded by some normal NPC's but mainly powerful archons, which prevents non-evil PCs near them from being struck/summoned, and possibly even be able to transport them secretly (ie. like gating them between wilderness safe havens once per 24 hours). Now, even the good aligned Outlanders are offended as otherworldly creatures are taking refuge in their wilderness. Not only that, the archon's presence deadens the intensity of violent acts in the area, reducing the ability of maledicting magic, and powers such as bloodlust of the twelve fiends, deathblow, and bloodthirst. For added fun, where the safe havens pop up is entirely random, so it may be anywhere from right next door to Galadon to near where the Village or Outlanders reside.

Finally, the Fortress leader can choose to focus the orb's power to influence the citizenry, causing them to favor the Light. With this in effect, guards hesitate to and possibly completely ignore good aligned criminals. The city disallows Tribunals from flagging good aligned people (they may do it afterwards, but its an insult for the city to not listen to them beforehand). The Paladin's Guild becomes more powerful and good aligned PCs can obtain food/drink items from the guildguard with minor benefits when eaten (+str/con/hp). With this power, reports of criminals that would go to a Justiciar, especially to an evil one, may instead get diverted towards the Maran cabal in a similar fashion.

--------

So, that's my take on some example Fortress powers.

In addition, I always plugged in an idea that these sorts of powers may not come into effect simply from holding a cabal item. That, in a sense, rituals may need to be performed (at least for Scion ones) requiring certain sacrifices (ie. ritual only can be done over the corpse of a Paladin PC killed at midnight). Empire may not ever control Hamsah until say, they take the Scales of Justice for awhile.

Anyways, my thoughts. I think a blanket "this will screw the pendulum" is a bit too much. The only thing that may need to be considered is if it affects newbies much adversely.

- Runaktla

Tribunals? Tribunal, 99% of the time, will only ever try and hold the fetish. They would never get the added benefits of hold more than one item (never is a strong word, how about almost never).

Well, yeah, there are holes in my plans if you believe that what I dish out is the only final product I'm advocating. But, with a little modification these things can be taken into account.

For example, with what you said, Tribunal's power may be affected by having their Scales or not, and the fetish or not, but it could also be affected by other things, such as:
(a) if the number of flags placed is close to the number of attacks by non-Tribunal/Deputies in the city;
(b) higher number of criminals killed (can up their power considerably compared to the rest);
(c) number of persons killed by criminals within a protected city; or
(d) hours that criminals have spent in protected cities.

If criminals are dying left and right, nonexistant, flags are being placed for most attacks, or the criminals are at least kept out of the cities, and if the fetish is taken, the Tribunals should be pretty powerful.

Maybe Tribunals have more guards on other roads when their fetish is taken and to piss off their normal friend, Empire, Centurions no longer can be called on roads? Or, they can do that teleporty-thingy to Arkham and call guards works in Arkham? Balator as well, and it can no longer can support Centurions? This could irritate Empire. Sorta hard to figure out an anti-Fortress Tribunal buff, but I bet it could be done.

Also, depending on to where a cabal focuses any new strength could define some leaders' reign by choices he/she makes.

Anyways, more thoughts..

Would actually promote Tribs to get outside the city and track down criminals a bit more. I think it would be neat if Arkham asked for help protecting its city. Not make it a full protected city, perhaps have it the location young Tribs start out. They only have limited powers. If they hold the fetish, they can place warrants there and call guards. If they do not have the scales, the city wants nothing to do with them and they have no power at all. Maybe merchants there charge them more because of it.

And? So be it, whats the problem? In exchange they are raided in 90% of the time by Outlanders only.

Making it more fun for all Cabals but one is just not cool.