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Forum Name New Player Q&A
Topic subjectDuo Dimension ?s
Topic URLhttps://forums.carrionfields.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=4223
4223, Duo Dimension ?s
Posted by Da Muted_ on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM

Two questions about duo dimension:

1) Is there a way for transmuters to sense anyone around them while in duo beyond "where <name>"?

The helpfile for master of dimension makes it seem as though it would allow you to better sense "where" or "who" but that doesn't seem to be the case. Just no lag from "where <name>". Plus you can't "where <name>" for someone sneaking? That seems strange since you can sense where anyone sneaking is generally through "where". Am I missing something or any tricks for this? I had heard there was a way to sense "someones" (pk?) was nearby with the where command.

2) Which area spells etc. can bring out a duo transmuter? (Faerie fog? Blindness dust? Invoker pillars? Thief traps?...?)

4224, RE: Duo Dimension ?s
Posted by jalbrin on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
1) Not that I'm aware of, no. It's a drawback to a spell that gives you unmatched stealth. The master of dimension spell does remove the lag from where "name," but that in and of itself makes it worthwhile. One or two round lag from each command when trying to see if anyone is in the area can hamstring you quite a bit. If you're good at scripts, you can put together something where you do who pk and it'll automatically do a where on everyone on the list. You can likely do something similar with a set of targeted aliases, where you manually put in a list of names to check for and then one command will check where for them all. I'm not that great at either, so have never done it, but it's possible and with the master edge a huge help.

2) So far as I know, any area spell will take you out of duo. Damage or revealing. You'll also get the lag from coming out of duo dimension, so careful.

Something to keep in mind, and that still kills me every now and then when I get forgetful about it, is that considering a mob will ALSO take you out of duo. Do that in front of a big aggro mob, and...
4232, A couple follow up transmuter ?s
Posted by Da Muted_ on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM

How does one use buoyancy? I'm not clear on what it's good for though being one of the highest level transmuter spells one would assume it's pretty powerful.

What does accelerate do? Compared to haste/quickening? When is it worth using (or not using) and what are the benefits of using it--and/or when should one not use it?

Lastly, malleability vs. corporeal hardening vs. petrify flesh. I'm pretty confused about which is best when. Is petrify flesh more of a spell to use against your enemy or to use yourself?
4233, RE: A couple follow up transmuter ?s
Posted by sykon on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
>How does one use buoyancy? I'm not clear on what it's good for
>though being one of the highest level transmuter spells one
>would assume it's pretty powerful.

I rarely found a use for it on other characters, I wanted to use it on those warriors that loved to drive as I think it would have stopped that but with spellbane I never landed. It also doesn't last long so I gave up on that. I have used it on Mobs to separate them in rare circumstances.

The best uses I've found for buoyancy are defensive ones yourself / groupmates. It has gotten me away from the giant so many times. If you are entwined or going up against that STSF warrior that can prevent you from fleeing, it will get you out. I'm sure there are many offensive uses, but I got the best use out of it defensively.

>What does accelerate do? Compared to haste/quickening? When is
>it worth using (or not using) and what are the benefits of
>using it--and/or when should one not use it?

With the grace under pressure edge accelerate worked wonderfully, I would pick quickening over it in a heart beat, but when you keep an eye on your moves it's a great defensive spell. You can also use it offensively. It will make that bleeding go up immensely. For those people that hit and run for returning an item, get them bleeding, then get them quickened / hastened and they will go run off to die. 1:1 fights always use it unless you are against someone with a movement reduction skill (hamstring, energy drain, etc)

>Lastly, malleability vs. corporeal hardening vs. petrify
>flesh. I'm pretty confused about which is best when. Is
>petrify flesh more of a spell to use against your enemy or to
>use yourself?

This depends on your race / what skills you are going against. Someone Dexy will get more out of malleability than hardening, Svirf always seemed to get more outta hardening. Petrify flesh is another one like accelerate, watch your moves and you should be good, I really only used it in cabal defenses, or against mobs that pounded.

Hope this helps out a bit, I don't know everything about the class, but it is what helped me out.
4234, RE: A couple follow up transmuter ?s
Posted by Daevryn on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Something to keep in mind is that buoyancy sort of goes with fly, accelerate sort of goes with quickening/haste, and petrify flesh sort of goes with hardening/stoneskin.

They're all mixed blessings, moreso with the similar spell in play. So for example you might choose to accelerate someone who comes at you hasted -- it gives them a little more upside even, at the cost of some big drawbacks that you can capitalize on.

Buoyancy lets certain kinds of hits automatically send a victim flying; it also makes some kinds of attacks that care about the mass of the character very hard to do or defend against.

Accelerate ups defenses, but it makes bleeding even harder to deal with than with metabolic quickening alone, makes regen even worse, and makes you burn moves to fight. When you run out of moves, ####, as they say, gets real.

Petrify flesh is DR, at the cost of lagging yourself more while it's going.

Metabolic unity shields you from some of the drawbacks of these combos cast on your self, up to a point. Situationally I would use any of these spells on myself.
4235, RE: A couple follow up transmuter ?s
Posted by Eskelian on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Why would you want to be buoyant yourself? To get out of entwine?
4236, RE: A couple follow up transmuter ?s
Posted by Daevryn on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
One of the better uses of it that I've seen over the years involved a transmuter up against a necromancer with a really high-end zombie army. He runs in, throws a disrupt, gets sent flying out of the room by the first zombie to hit him and avoids the rest of the melee, repeats.

Granted, you could make the argument that he was begging to get slept.
4237, Pretty smart. Thanks. n/t
Posted by Eskelian on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
4245, A couple add-on's...
Posted by TMNS on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
1) Nepenthe is too vague. Accelerate sleeps whomever is affected by it when moves hit 0. If you are fighting you may mitigate this but say you cast it on someone who does a lot of running away from you...

2) Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the other drawback to Petrify Flesh on yourself is that you can't have it up and flight at the same time. As Nepenthe said though, I still found uses for it and it's situationally really nice to have (also used offensely to keep someone from flying).

3) Buoyancy can be mean combined with summon (offensively) where you can make someone buoyant so they are thrown into the next room if they can't escape before you hit them. Knocking people into Centurions is one of the more devious things I've seen done with this.

That's pretty much it.
4247, Correction
Posted by Moligant on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Its not 'petrify flesh' that keeps you from flying. That spell is 'Calcify'. Calcify gives I think some additional damage reduction at the cost of being unable to fly. Petrify flesh reduces your moves every tick but it also I believe either provides some slight DR or maybe resitance to some types of attacks, im unsure which.

Im pretty sure you can't cast calcify on another person. Doesnt matter though because transmuters get earthbind.

Petrify flesh is situaionally very potent especially in conjunction w/ accelerate on folks who don't hit that hard or that often. The speed that you lose movement when fighting while accelrated and petrified is frightening. Great spells to use in cabal defense at the inners.

4240, Another question about Neuro...?
Posted by Da Muted_ on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM

I'm having a tough time understanding how to use neurological disruption effectively.

I realize it freezes people up when it hits fully. At which point I should theoretically be able to out melee once I lay down the various broken bones and soft skin and slowing etc.

Maybe my problem is I don't understand what the various echoes really mean, and I haven't got a good feel for how long it locks them up. What am I looking for? I've seen some transmuters making it look easy with the perma-lag of neuro but that doesn't seem to be my case. Do I need to be casting it every tick, on the hour? Or are there times where they'll be locked up a while (several hours?) and I can just lay out the damage spells?

Lastly, it doesn't seem to work well against elves and other high int, right? Is it worth trying even, generally, or is that more a decision to be based on whether they have good svs vs paralysis via gear, etc.?

When to neuro, when to not neuro? that is the question. Thank you.

4241, RE: Another question about Neuro...?
Posted by Eskelian on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Quas explained this well on qhcf.net


Summarized here :

Quas < PM >
January 10, 2014 05:51AM
Registered: 4 years ago
Posts: 4,352

There are 2 things which affect the lag of neuro (and neuro lags 2 different ways).
1.) if you get fail, slight, or violent
2.) How many people are fighting the person you are casting on

Fail does no lag at all
Slight does 2 rounds of lag (like trip)
Violent does freezing

If they are fighting other people the chance for good disrupt goes down (significantly) and the amount of freezetime from a violent also reduces.

The freeze time of violent is non linear. Landing 1 violent will generally freeze them 4 rounds, the second is more, and the third more, (you will get a message if you max the amount of total freeze which is between 1-2 ticks). Mechanically I believe it looks at the amount of freeze left to determine how much more to add, this is why you commonly see 2 or 3 neuros then a switch to debuffs instead of neuro/debuf/neuro/debuff

It is possible when ganking to get a violent neuro that only freezes one round


As for whether or not you *SHOULD* neuro, well that depends.

Mirozah's build is based on Drow dex + sneak, Duo edges, Scion 'despoil' and ABS. That means Mirozah has tons of HP and damage, can spell up fairly quickly and jump people who are unprepared and with 24 dex malleability and haste makes him tank very well. So for him, it's pretty safe to neuro anyone without spellbane (and sometimes with spellbane).

Let's assume that you're not a scion and therefore you don't have full ABS with 1600 HP. Then it's a judgement call. Are you playing an agile race like drow or arial where you'll be using malleability a lot? Or are you using a race like human or gnome where you might choose to rely more on calcify and petrify? The malleability type builds are 'adrenamancer' builds, which means they melee fairly well. Hence, they can get sorta crappy neuros and still win a fight. The calcify builds are more 'caster/disrupt builds', because you can't really tank very well so you're using damage reduction as a buffer hoping to land big spells and you might not have the mana to drop 3 wasted neuros at 100 mana each. They both play very differently.

On a caster build I'd imagine you really want to haste/accelerate them up to sap their movements, then hit them with strong bleeding/toxin attacks. Or at least, that's how I played that build. I almost never used neuro in that build because I really wasn't trying to permalag them until dead (and I could not afford to do that).
4295, Some misinfo here
Posted by KaguMaru on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Area damage spells don't pull out a duo'd muter. Nor does warp dimension. You have to fog them.
4296, More precisely
Posted by incognito on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
You have to do something that can hit people not in your pk. You could, for example, change the environment (make it burning) if I recall. Any damage they take as a result will bring them out.