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Forum Name New Player Q&A
Topic subjectHonestly, how do you learn to play this game well?
Topic URLhttps://forums.carrionfields.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=3233
3233, Honestly, how do you learn to play this game well?
Posted by Discouraged semi-newbie on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I was having fun for a while but I'm getting very discouraged with this game lately.

Too many bullies out there. Too hard to survive once you hit the mid-30s and up ranks. I put hundred of hours into a character, role, exploration, quests and skills, and then get pk'ed so many times in a row that it's just not worth continuing on because of my constitution and practices are all burned well before I hero. Okay, so I suck and I don't know all of the intricacies of the game...what should I do to figure this out? I can't seem to find a race/class/cabal that doesn't feel weak when I play it (despite getting my ass handed to me by others when they seem to do the same things), which is clearly my lack of knowledge of the game.

I just have to say, the help files suck in terms of actually helping a person figure out how to defend themselves or fully utilize skills/spells/stats, etc. I guess the immortals are too busy killing me with all of their beefed up characters, and programming all these complex things behind the scenes...would sure be nice to see some more detail about how things work (in an organized way; not "go search the forums"). I guess some people like it all to be hard to figure out because it works to their advantage, but it's simply not welcoming to new players. I'd consider myself a moderately knowledgeable player at this point, but I just can't seem to make a strong character or feel like I'm not at a constant and major disadvantage due to the black box nature of the game.

Honestly, some real detail in the helpfiles about how things work, how they are affected by different stats, etc. and how to defend against them would be EXTREMELY helpful for the few newbies that actually seem to play this game. I'm all for complexity and awarding those that put a lot of time and energy into learning the game, but there needs to be a bit more help for newbies out there.

If anyone has suggestions on the best, most efficient way to learn this game other than spend a billion hours playing and reading forums, I'm all ears. I'm willing to put in my time, but want to actually have a real life too...maybe that's not possible?
3348, Play survivable characters, like rangers/hiders/transmuters, who can avoid being PK'd when they don't want to.
Posted by Eskelian on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
For PK, use throwaway characters with not much investment in the beginning. Don't feel obligated to hero them. Don't care if they are almost con dead by 30.

To be honest when I started playing you could get a never ending XP hole if you got killed by NPC's so I didn't hero for like the first 3 years I played.

This isn't like most games where the real game starts at the highest level, I actually have the most fun in the mid-30's.
3298, RE: Honestly, how do you learn to play this game well?
Posted by Bajula on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Disclaimer: I am not a great pk'er, I am not a good pk'er, I am a barely passable pk'er :) but I know alot of stuff about alot of stuff and if I ever remember or choose to make use of it I COULD be a good pk'er. End disclaimer.

First thing, remember the skull? and the first question asked?
assume you are already dead... lots. quit caring that you die.
make learning something useful with this character be your only
goal. I have NEVER had as much fun in this game as I have with the
characters where I cared not one little bit if I died.
(See Nimelerion I'm pretty sure there is a pbf up. He was awesome
fun and I went from full con with trains to spare to con dead in 2 weeks.)

Play til con death, if you hero with 8 con you still hero'd.

Where is ultimately more powerful than a teleport potion.
take things slow and walk around near spamming where, you will
see where the edges of areas are, knowing how to get into another
area will ultimately save your life more often than anything else.
Later this will also let you know where the guy you were chasing
likely went.

For pk: Learn to run, spend one characters life just getting out
of pk, count each survival as a win. Once you get jumped and you
are confident you can get out if you choose, then you can look
to WHEN to get out in a pk. (I can do this, I just don't hehe)
THEN you make a character to hunt, just jump everyone you can
sure you'll die alot, but who cares, here the object isn't even
to land a kill, it's to make them run. then chase them. learn to
guess where people are going, get there ahead of them.
Pay attention to what class consistently whips you, play that
class next.

Personally I found the easiest way to learn where preps are is
to join a cabal and ask "hey where did you get that root/pill/potion?
next is to poke your nose into every little cranny in an area.
If a group takes you to an unfamiliar place, learn to get there
on your own and when alone go poke into every little hole you find.

I'm sure there is more, and I'm sure you want more detailed info
but that is like granting freebie naturalization when others have
worked thier asses off to earn the same thing, just plain not cool.

Gotta run, the wifey calls. :)
3299, I second this
Posted by incognito on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
And I'm reasonably successful at pk, although becoming less so as I too get less bothered about dying and don't bother typing where even though I know I should.
3288, RE: Honestly, how do you learn to play this game well?
Posted by Isildur on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Somehow I missed this post. Here are my thoughts:

1. Read all the help files for each class spell/skill/song/prayer. Know your enemy; know yourself.

2. Read logs of other people fighting. If you see something that conflicts with how you think things work then get someone to explain the discrepancy.

3. Play a lot and learn the layout of the areas of the game. The diku maps help some.

4. Learn what gear to aim for given the combo you're playing. You may not ever get it but you at least know what to greedily covet.

5. Figure out (mostly by asking in game) where to get common preps including what common preps are even available. Flight, protection vs. alignment, resist heat/cold/lightning/negative if you need it, resist mental, cure blindness, pass door.

6. Figure out how to amass gold as efficiently as possible. Unless someone spoon feeds you this info then you'll probably need to ask around in game. People are notoriously unwilling to share their gold sources in a public forum since it means they may get "fixed".

7. Keep various essentials in your inventory (not just in a container!) to prevent death. Return potion, multiple teleport potions, cure blindness, detect invis (if you need it) and enough gold to heal yourself. At hero you might want to add pills to heal and refresh yourself.

8. Don't participate in any fight you didn't start. If someone surprises you then get the heck out of there immediately.

9. Train yourself not to stack commands. That especially includes spamming "flee" ten times.

10. Get a client and learn how to create highlights and aliases. Create a basic set of aliases. For instance, "q" for "quaff return".

#1 and #2 mean you can at least formulate a reasonable strategy for beating someone.

#3 means you might be able to find someone to kill (or gear you want) and you won't be totally lost if/when you have to teleport away.

#4 should mean you will have at least passable gear, even if it's only "regear" quality.

#5 means you won't lack the basic preps most people use, so you're not hamstrung in that way.

#6-9 mean that when someone does "beat" you in a battle you don't actually end up dead every time; you make your escape and live to fight another day.
3292, RE: Honestly, how do you learn to play this game well?
Posted by Daevryn on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
>
>5. Figure out (mostly by asking in game) where to get common
>preps including what common preps are even available. Flight,
>protection vs. alignment, resist heat/cold/lightning/negative
>if you need it, resist mental, cure blindness, pass door.

Hey, I don't even know how to get all of that. :( (Or bother with half of the rest.)

Note to self: PK Isildur and take his prep bag.
3294, RE: Honestly, how do you learn to play this game well?
Posted by Isildur on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Wow, really? I only bother with resists if my character has one of those vulns. Mental is only really needed if you're going to fight bards high enough to feind you. Pass door isn't really that necessary...I'll give you that one. Cure blindness is necessary if you're going to fight shamans/necros/anti-paladins and don't want to die to the maledicts in case you have to teleport away.
3295, Probably the resist negative.
Posted by Dallevian on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
It isn't terribly hard to get but isn't commonplace (if we're talking about the scroll). The resist lightning is easy enough to farm in potion form. Only mages can use the other form that I know of.

Those are the two that I would qualify as not necessary in most scenarios.
3296, RE: Probably the resist negative.
Posted by Daevryn on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
>It isn't terribly hard to get but isn't commonplace (if we're
>talking about the scroll).

I was assuming we weren't. If we are I know that one, I just don't bother with it. :P

Resist mental is the only resist prep I can remember to use with any regularity. Anything else I bother to gather (or steal from Isildur, I've got my eye on you, buddy!) will still probably be in my sack when I die.
3297, Amen. Preps are for pansies. nt
Posted by Dallevian on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I prefer winning on an empty belly.
3300, RE: Probably the resist negative.
Posted by Isildur on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I was talking about potions or pills for all those.

There are at least two resist negative potions, both easy to get. Lightning you can buy cheaply, so no need to farm it. I'd keep resist cold on tap if I were a fire giant and resist heat if I were a felar, but I would probably only use them before fighting a high-level bard, anti-paladin, any invoker, or someone I knew had a weapon that exploited my heat/cold vuln.

Flight I generally only use against thieves and invokers.

Protection vs. alignment is so cheap and easy to keep on hand (for everyone but outlanders) that I'd use it for every fight where it's relevant.

Like I said in that other post, cure blindness is mostly just insurance against dying to maledicts when fighting necromancers/anti-paladins/shamans. If I teleport away scourged, blind and poisoned for 12 hours then I at least want to be able to see the room I'm in so I can have a chance to get back to my corpse before the guy whose maledicts killed me does.
3272, Try playing a fun role that doesn't rely on PK skill.
Posted by TMNS on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Try working on the RP aspect of your game if you find your PK is lacking.

I'd definitely suggest con-dying your first character on CF. I know I did and it was a huge boost to my playing ability. I learned so much with that char that it allowed me to make successive characters that brought more and more things to the table.

I'm not a champ, but I'm no scrub at CF either.

Also, a lot of the immortals on CF kinda suck at PK :) Iunna/Neltoulda/Enlilth/etc are much more known for their RP and the flavor they add to the game. Don't get discouraged or assume conspiracy if there is a character constantly beating you down. Try to learn from your mistakes or try to roll something that will keep that character (or the same type) not wanting to kill you.

Good luck. Stick with it. All it takes is one character where everything comes together and you'll be unfortunately hooked like the rest of us.
3270, Really good aliases
Posted by BaronMySoul on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
The more my adrenaline pumps, the harder it is for me to type fast and accurately. Therefore, having a really good alias system where I can focus on targets, get skills off, and be able to successfully flee is going to up your survivability drastically.

"qr" is a lot easier and faster to type type than "quaff return". When I'm not pking, the timing is negligible, but when I am, I couldn't type "quaff return" accurately for the life of me.

Do not use triggers, though, for anything besides highlighting/making the mud output clearer because they will more than likely get you killed. A good trigger would be "Bob has fled west **WEST**". A bad one would be "hp 20% -> flee;get return sack;quaff return".
3249, Ill get flame for this
Posted by Oldril on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
everything you say is true

I might suggest trying a new game because the truth is the CF veterans have dozens of years experience and have HUGE advantages over newer players even if they are playing fairly.

3250, That's a bunch of crap.
Posted by Homard on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
You're advising him to give up because it's hard?

That's ####ty. Really ####ty.

Wuss culture, brought to you by Oldril. Good job.
3251, He said it was hard and he didn't want to spend a bunch of hours
Posted by Oldril on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I didn't advise him to give up

I said he might wish another game if he doesn't wish to spend some time learning to get good at CF

3252, Obviously he understands this.
Posted by Homard on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
It's true of anything and it goes without saying.

Having a disinterested party enter the conversation and suggest
giving up (no matter what the subject may be) just shrieks of
wussiness.
3253, sorry for my honesty
Posted by Oldril on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM



here is a more positive post
3255, Padwei brings happiness to the Fortressites. nt
Posted by DurNominator on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
nt
3254, There's some truth to this but
Posted by incognito on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Some players are up to the challenge.

I think, if you play a class recommended for new players, you should enjoy yourself and learn quite a lot with each new character. If you stick with characters for a significant length of time you should be reasonably competitive after you've played a few. You probably won't be rocking large groups of enemies but neither will you be getting repeatedly steamrolled by solo characters that you are not sure how to get away from.
3289, RE: There's some truth to this but
Posted by Isildur on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Sure. But I'm not sure I buy that warriors are a good newbie class.

Generally you want something that:

1. Relies on gear to a lesser degree than other combos,
2. Relies on preps to a lesser degree than other combos,
3. Has an uncomplicated PK strategy.

I kind of like shield paladin for this. It's not hard to com sanc, com prot, com wrath. Assuming you can handle empowerment, but role-play is an area where a newbie shouldn't really be at a disadvantage.
3290, Hah.
Posted by Twist on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I'll agree with you that warriors are not for newer players when I see you play one and stick with it. :P

I realize that logic isn't exactly logical, but my point is you're biased against warriors.
3291, RE: Hah.
Posted by Isildur on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I just think they're harder to be successful with than people make them out to be. Obviously they can be extremely powerful in the right hands with the right build.

On paper, at least, the newbie shield paladin doesn't give up as much (vs. the same build played by a vet) as newbie warrior does compared to veteran warrior.

Give newbie guy a Hunsobo build in Empire. He probably never even makes Elite Blade and never has the kind of gear you did. He gets trashed left and right because he can't hide. Invokers tear him up in quicksand. Bards fiend him to death. Paladins wrath him down. Assassins have a field day because, despite being a giant sword spec, he's so weak sauce they don't have to fear permalag. Etc.

Now give newbie guy (who can role-play) Dupmasione's build. Assuming you were shield, that is- I forget. Newbie doesn't get a leader spot like Dupmasione but he might still make Maran for sheer effort. He doesn't get three virtues but he probably gets two. He won't be nearly as deathful with the build as you were but he should die a lot less than newbie-Hunsobo and might get a few kills with wrath spam.
3293, I think this is pretty much true.
Posted by Twist on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Re: Hunsobo you forgot transmuters. Transmuters were the worst. Screw you Enarn. :P

But yeah I think you have good points - keep in mind that Hunsobo WAS getting torn up and hadn't made Elite and I was near deletion at one point after some orc(!) beat me down at like 41 and looted as much as he could carry (or at least that's how I remember it).
3243, RE: Honestly, how do you learn to play this game well?
Posted by Nreykre on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
>I was having fun for a while but I'm getting very discouraged
>with this game lately.

CF has a high learning curve. Fortunately, the reward of eventually getting past that curve is that it makes CF even more rewarding and enjoyable.

>Too many bullies out there. Too hard to survive once you hit
>the mid-30s and up ranks. I put hundred of hours into a
>character, role, exploration, quests and skills, and then get
>pk'ed so many times in a row that it's just not worth
>continuing on because of my constitution and practices are all
>burned well before I hero. Okay, so I suck and I don't know
>all of the intricacies of the game...what should I do to
>figure this out? I can't seem to find a race/class/cabal that
>doesn't feel weak when I play it (despite getting my ass
>handed to me by others when they seem to do the same things),
>which is clearly my lack of knowledge of the game.

Everyone gets bullied in the sense that pretty much every character build in CF has a large number of enemies gunning for them at some point. Don't take that part personally.

All the walk-throughs, Wikis, etc., in the world won't help a new player do well in CF overnight. Game knowledge is huge in CF, but so is instinct. I remember playing turn-based RPGs as a kid and referring to a guide in between turns if I needed to. In a game like CF where an entire fight takes mere seconds and you have a fraction of that to make decisions about what skills to use, how to response to actions taken, when to flee, etc., true skill comes through simply doing -- even if you lose. You WILL get better.

>I just have to say, the help files suck in terms of actually
>helping a person figure out how to defend themselves or fully
>utilize skills/spells/stats, etc. I guess the immortals are
>too busy killing me with all of their beefed up characters,
>and programming all these complex things behind the

To my knowledge, there are only a couple Immortals who actively play mortals (at least "buff" ones). It just so happens they also have literally decades (decades?!) of experience as players. In the grand scheme of things, Twist's latest juggernaut is going to be indistinguishable from any other character played by a talented player, especially when you're new.

>scenes...would sure be nice to see some more detail about how
>things work (in an organized way; not "go search the forums").
>I guess some people like it all to be hard to figure out
>because it works to their advantage, but it's simply not
>welcoming to new players. I'd consider myself a moderately
>knowledgeable player at this point, but I just can't seem to
>make a strong character or feel like I'm not at a constant and
>major disadvantage due to the black box nature of the game.

As someone who uses the "go search the forums" line a lot (hooray for newbie channel duty!), I can tell you the reason for that is two-fold: First, because that's just how the newbie channel works. Second, and more importantly, because the forums are an EXCELLENT place to organize and present your questions and get accurate, detailed answers.

>Honestly, some real detail in the helpfiles about how things
>work, how they are affected by different stats, etc. and how
>to defend against them would be EXTREMELY helpful for the few
>newbies that actually seem to play this game. I'm all for
>complexity and awarding those that put a lot of time and
>energy into learning the game, but there needs to be a bit
>more help for newbies out there.

I think it's unlikely we'll ever see the nuts-n-bolts of mechanics expressed in near pseudo code in the help files. That said, in many cases I think the help files plus some common sense are still a very good start. If you absolutely disagree, definitely take Nnaeshuk up on his offer.

>If anyone has suggestions on the best, most efficient way to
>learn this game other than spend a billion hours playing and
>reading forums, I'm all ears. I'm willing to put in my time,
>but want to actually have a real life too...maybe that's not
>possible?

My final two pieces of advice:

1) Take it slow and experiment. If you have a question, try to think of a way of testing it. It takes time, but you'll learn a lot and probably end up building a lot of confidence in yourself, your knowledge, and your ability.

2) Find a MUD client that can log and use it. Review your fights. Critique yourself. Hell, post fights on the log board here (whilst following the rules, of course) and ask more experienced players to offer advice on tactics, etc. Learn from your mistakes. This goes double for learning things like preps, quests, etc. You'd be amazed the things you miss when you're going 1,000mph on the MUD.
3240, My Advice (How I Learned to Play This Game)
Posted by Homard on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Let me begin by saying that I am not anywhere near a top-tier
player of this game. I had my first Hero in 2009. I also fully
and completely understand where you're coming from.

I remember having a utility/offense shifter back around then
and I landed what I thought would be a great form to get some
kills with. My "Victim" approached and two-rounded me. WTF?
This sort of thing was happening constantly.

So, I said "screw it," I want to learn how to fight. I decided to
learn from the best. I rolled up an Arial dagger-spec (ambitious for
a total noob), named him after a winner of The World Series of Poker
and struggled mightily to kill that first mage, but finally I did.


Being an applicant was awful, but I struggled through that as well.
Eventually Dastmalchi was inducted into The BattleRagers, Haters of
Magic (by an amazing Drillmaster I recently learned was played by
Borkahd) and I was head-first into the deep-end of CF.

Keep in mind that I didn't know how to get to the Nexus Island or The
Chasm or pretty much anywhere. I would grab onto a group and hang on
for dear life. Potions of Recall were out of the question, so getting
lost was a matter of sink-or-swim. The entire game had become
"no-recall" and that safety net was gone.

I now had Resistance, which all of a sudden made me at least 30%
tougher. I had Field Dressing, which meant I could flee, patch and
come back with another hundred HP. Basically, there were skills in
place that now made surviving possible much of the time. Granted, I
was still getting killed a ton, but no one was two-rounding me.

I was immersed into cabal politics and I RPed my heart out. I got
lastnamed, even. I fought in The Rites and even managed to almost
beat the character that would next become Commander. It was awesome.

Finally I deleted because Arial Dagger Defender was still to fragile
at Hero for someone as unskilled as I was, but I was fully cognizant
that I had taken a huge step forward. My next character was a Dwarf
Sword/Whip Berserker and I will never forget being summoned on
Eastern Road by an AP, spellbaning their first attack and
subsequently two-rounding them. Feels good, man.

Now, three years later I've had several well-regarded, well-liked
characters, one Drillmaster, a tattoo, two role-contest winners, and
the recent epiphany that once you get some key skills under your belt
you can make anything you want out of this game, which is what makes
it so great.

Playing Battle is playing CF stripped down. You don't prep, you can
only travel by foot, you can have very little progging-gear, you
can't heal at healers, you can't use half the items in the game,
but...you will learn how play.

My advice to you is to play a Villager to Hero. It really is a
sink-or-swim scenario and it's a fantastic way to join the fray.

Jump in headfirst.
3238, Yes, CF is hard, but...
Posted by Nnaeshuk on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Honestly, you WILL get better with time. At some point, things just click and really come together for you. Things just start making sense. My best advice would be to completely disregard con and keep playing a character until you either age die or con die. I found myself learning much more quickly when I just stuck with one character, instead of getting frustrated and rerolling. When you have a character with higher hours, people know you, you make friends, you build repport with other characters and they teach you things, take you under their wing, and you grow by leaps and bounds, as a player. For me, I wanted to get better at pk, so I rolled a battlerager and played that character until I con-died. Ragers fight ALL the time and I got a lot better, not only with fighting skills (and what to do in a given situation), but also at roleplaying and regearing quickly. That's my suggestion, just give it time, pick a race/class/cabal and stick with it.

The only thing I'll say about your comment about IMMs multi-killing you is that this just isn't the case.

As far as the helpfiles, I would love to help make CF more newbie friendly. If you provide me a list of things that you would like to see covered (or even looked at more in depth), I would definitely devote some time to help make that happen. Please give me the information that you need and I'll see what I can do.

I hope this post at least helps you a little bit.

Nae-nae.
3246, Newbie Arena?
Posted by Stevers on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Area, available between ranks 11 - 15 (or whatever you see fit).

Newbie walks in, gets transported to a room. Newbie either faces another newbie, an imm controlled mob, or a mob that will throw out skills in a way that another player might.

No bets can be made, no items can be lost, and a timer of half that for the regular arena. Maybe there can be 4 different rooms, so a total of 8 newbies could be fighting 1 v 1, or 4 newbies fighting 1 v 1 and the other two rooms would be newbies v mobs, etc

Something like that, anyway. It might help out those of us that truly blow at PK.
3247, I like this idea...
Posted by Nnaeshuk on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
...and it is something we've talked about before. The idea isn't dead or anything like that, but it is a bit of a coding nightmare and would take a LOT of time to get done. It's in our heads, though.

Nae-nae
3248, Santa Nnae? :> n/t
Posted by Stevers on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
pls o pls
3275, Specialties perhaps?
Posted by Artificial on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Writing AI is really hard, but perhaps something like you choose okay I want to fight a pincer spamming svirf rager, a bash spamming fire giant, or a wrath spamming elf shield paladin, and thats all they do. Could be really helpful learning to fight some of the one trick ponies.
3235, This is why I suggest assassins first
Posted by incognito on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Because then, if you keep up heightened awareness and detect hidden, you will have only a handful of players who can sneak up on you.

So if you use "where" a lot, no one will.

You also have the ability to hide from almost everyone. Only thieves, other assassins, duergar and on-duty tribunals (and some shifters) can see you in civilised terrain, and only rangers and other assassins can see you in the wilds (wood-elves are an exception but even they have limited vision).

This means that if you are an assassin, YOU pick when you fight. So you shouldn't be getting wiped repeatedly.

Ranger is a similar thing, only you are more confined to the wilds.

There are also certain things to avoid if there are lots of enemies on and you don't want to fight. If you die, ranking, continuing to rank where the corpse is will allow anyone who can locate object to pinpoint you, whereupon they may well come after you.

Also, as Quixotic said, where you fight matters. You fight on eastern road? Then be aware there's a HIGH chance of someone else interfering in the fight, and if you die, lowbies are almost certainly going to loot you heavily.

But I don't want to play an assassin, I hear. Well, you don't have to play them forever. Just hero one and play for a decent length of time, and you should find that you aren't dying so much. Talk to other assassins IC about different techniques and you'll then find out stuff like a crunching kotegaeshi means the victim loses whatever they were holding in their off hand (meaning, for example, that a sword spec loses flourintine so has worse parrying, therefore fewer ripostes, and also will only do flurries with up to four hits).

Classes like this should give you a better idea of how pk works, because you'll learn about what makes things harder and easier to sneak up on an enemy, you'll learn terrain better because you aren't always being chased, you'll win some pk's because you'll have the element of surprise, and you won't be multi-killed unless you expose yourself through your own laziness.

Remember, you can phrase things ic to find things out. e.g. Can a fox see me when I'm hiding? will almost certainly get you a "yes" reply.

Also, is it the same people killing you, or not? Because I don't tend to kill someone I know is a newb more than once. However, doesn't mean I won't be the first "bully" on the list that kills you.

cf learning tends to go like this:
Learn to survive:
- always flee a fight you didn't start until you are experienced
- learn the terrain, because if you can move around fast, people will really struggle to kill you
- learn what enemies are able to do. i.e. that fire ap can't see you when you hide, but he could fireball you out, so be ready to run if he does, or hide next to strong mobs etc.
- learn when to run (being in a group doesn't always make you safer
- learn when not to lag (some opponents will kill you if you try to lag them out, so you need to maladict them first if that will help)
- plan with your group. If you are attacked, you don't want to try to fight if the rest of your group is trying to run, and vice versa.
3236, adding to this, another option
Posted by Abernyte on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
Try a major defense coupled with minor offense or utility shapeshifter. You will have survivability because of your defensive forms and also some offense, as well as detects like hidden and acute vision if you go utility or just raw power if you go offense.

Shifters have no real skill or spell spamming requirement so you can just keep ranking and you would be very unlucky to not get at least one regeneration form which will save your life a lot of the time.

As a defense major you will be wanted as a groupmate for being the tank so ranking should not be an issue and at hero you will then be good at solo exploring but, better than that, you will be actively encouraged to explore with others because of your abilities.

If you go gnome, then you can get some crazy mana and hps but the exp cost will slow ranking a little but being neutral allows you more grouping opportunities so maybe a neutral human with no exp penalty will allow you to rank quick and really start to learn.

-----Abernyte
3234, Short bit of Advice
Posted by Quixotic on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
First, in Carrion Fields PK, seldom will you have a fair fight. You run from the scion air/offense human shifters with nine levels on you, you fry the brains of the fire giant rager app who can't even see you coming. When you win those fights, don't be a griefer, because even if CF Karma(TM) doesn't bite you in the ass, no one will ever want to fight you if you do not show class when you win.

Second, now that you know that you will never have a fair fight, you need to start looking for situations to avoid and situations to attack. Here are factors you need to weigh in determining whether to start or stay in a fight:

* Number of foes in the area or who could show up during the fight
* What are you/your foes doing at the time the conflict starts
* Health of both parties
* Damage output of both parties
* Lagging ability of both parties
* Your exit strategy

Several things will impact these factors, and knowledge of these will only come with experience. Racial tendencies and vulnerabilities, gear, (magical) preparations, class skills (and skill level), cabal powers, and just terrain & mob knowledge will only come with time and study.

As a newer player, you truly would be better off playing rangers and assassins or thug thieves for your first several characters. Because of their ability to have some control over who they fight, they have an easier time learning how to gauge what fights are best for them.

Last thing: try to have fun. Most players aren't assholes, and don't get discouraged by the few people who are.

Remember it is a game.
3237, Thanks. This is helpful.
Posted by Discouraged semi-newbie on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I think one of my biggest problems thus far is that I've tried to stay and fight through fights that I didn't start, and was in hindsight destined to lose...and that has pretty much never gone well.
3239, Some more tips from a slightly less than noob player
Posted by lasentia on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
I consider myself in between that range of complete noob to skilled, but having not played for as long as a lot of people, I try to help people out new to CF. I think most players can get to at least my play level a lot quicker than I did with a little help and some friendly advice.

Flee quaff in bad fights is your friend. Always carry two teleport potions in your inventory. If the guy sits there and sends you tells like coward or something, just ignore them. I hate when players get annoyed for you not fighting them on their terms. Fight battles you have a chance at winning, dying is fine, but don't make it easy for other people to kill you by fighting when you should flee. Not many people have the role of I want to be the easy target that just gets killed all the time. You char should have a survival instinct. He should actively try to avoid dying by any means necessary. When you're solo, this applies almost all the time. There is something to be said for trying to save group mates and such, or defending cabals, but walking down eastern and getting bashed by a giant sword spec you are not ready for, your first command is flee, your next is quaff.

As to midbie PK, it is arguably some of the hardest. At low levels most people are generally weak, though some amass ridiculous sets and just terrorize those ranks. But it is relatively easy to rank out of those ranges. At mid levels you have people that are at the height of their power curve a lot of times, like sword specs, that just tear it up. By hero a lot of things tend to level out again. A vet can tear up the 30 ranks a lot of times and become far less deadly at hero. A sword spec fights the same for example, pretty much from 32 to hero. Legacies help keep him competetive again where as at 40-43 warriors often get tooled hard.

A shifter may have a hard time at those ranks, but with their final form all the sudden kills them easily. I think the greatest game balance exists at hero actually, though game knowledge will still favor vets. Unfortunately, the only way to get this is to play and not get discouraged. I'd say almost every vet out there probably still learns one new thing with every char they play. That's how big and complex CF is, and part of its draw. It's never the same game twice.

I'd say also learn how to define success in CF not by PK stats but by enjoyment you get just from playing the game. If you're playing a fun role and having a good time exploring & learning things, getting wiped in a PK won't even be noticed. And if you play as a friendly guy with a reputation for not being douchey, most pk's will leave you your stuff. Just cause you lose 2 or 3 pieces after is not a reason to go bitch to the killer. If you take it in stride and show a little class, you'll find that person will probably leave you alone for the rest of the log in and not make a point of looting for no reason in the future. (With the caveat like in all multi player games there are jackasses around and them you just have to deal with and ignore)

Also, realize vets don't know who noobs are, at least not at first, so will treat you as anyone else based on what you are playing. (I.e. I play an orc and you an elf, I'm killing you or trying to most likely on sight) However, once they do realize you are newer they tend to become more helpful to you. I might in an IC way try to suggest a tip that might make you able to survive, or even beat me in a future fight.

Playing a utility build is best for learning CF. As was said, assassins are great. Bards are too. Certain shifters, and certain defense based warriors. All are great to learn CF with. The real key is to play with eyes open so you are learning. Playing a rager that just runs the circle of eastern voralia and galadon is not really going to teach you all that much except maybe how to run certain places. Playing an explore herald where you pay attention to where you go and what people do can give a lot of game insight.

Of course, talking to people IC is ultimately the absolute best way to learn anything in CF. Might take five tries to find someone to help out, but when you do, you can learn in five minutes what others might learn in the course of an entire char life. It's not that game knowledge is secret, it's just that you have to put in the effort to acquire it. Help files are starting points, the depth of knowledge vets have is really derived from them doing things and learning from them. And a lot of time a vet becomes so not by having played 95 characters but by having played 4 or 5 really good ones and being attentive to what happens around them. Their experience is your gain a lot of times. I could sit on eastern as a rank 1 for a few hours, and just watch PKs and learn a lot about how classes work and favored tactics. What moves do they use? When do they flee? Why do they flee? Why do they remain? You can read logs too and learn a lot, and sometimes people's comments actually do provide useful insights into the mechanincs of the fight and suggestions for improvement.

Ultimately the best way to get good at CF is to not reinvent the wheel with every char, but build upon what you already know and try to improve upon it each char.
3245, RE: Thanks. This is helpful.
Posted by Daevryn on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
As you get better at the game and get a better sense for how character X stacks up against character Y, you will get to a point in which you (correctly) think you can win some fights you didn't start -- but when you're new it's better to err on the side of running.
3273, Someone once told me...
Posted by TMNS on Wed 31-Dec-69 07:00 PM
...never fight a fight you didn't start.

I don't always follow that (sadly). But it's great advice. Because if you didn't start the fight, that means you are not prepared for a fight and the other person is.