Let me begin with where I stand now. I have taken 3 characters to their 20s, I have read essentially every help file(yes, a lot), read a ton of PBFs, memorized all the FAQs on Dikuclan, and read a great deal of the forums here and on Dioxide's. In WoW I am a Sunwell raid leader (highest end raiding for non wow players), just to suggest that I am not a scrub gamer. Anyway---

To start, is there any other very in depth site other than the aforementioned dikuclan and dioxide's? It appears that a lot of the info that would greatly increase my ability to break into the game is declared off limits, or else is ancient and outdated.

This game is clearly tailored to group play, which is fine, despite my constantly seeing complaints about diminished player base, but I find that if I get into a great group I can fly up in ranks, but I am left with a lot of my skills very low, especially defenses if I am not tanking, which leaves me vulnerable in pvp, but if I try to level solo, it becomes not only incredibly slow, but also very dangerous as a newb. I greatly prefer playing solo, especially as an evil character, though I have been sticking to neutrals to learn the game. Any suggestions for the would be soloist? I read somewhere theres a guide to soloing as a mage, but I could not find it anywhere and I imagine it was deleted/put off limits etc.

On roles-
I have a lot of great ideas, but I realize most of them cannot be put into play to any degree until I am more experienced, but I am curious what the immortals prefer when it comes to style. Are bullet points preferred or more story type? The only exp awarded role I got was for a story type, but I am not sure thats any indication, since many of my other roles were extremely long, or the char was short lived. As well, it seems that it would be more beneficial to write my role around mid ranks rather than at level 1 because getting the I think 3k exp and some stat bonuses would have been far better when mobs are more dangerous/more exp to level etc.

I could not find the answer to this anywhere: are you supposed to always get a stat % up when you level? I imagine not, but I am wondering if I am just extremely unlucky and have it try to boost stats in which I have only 1%, making me lose it. As well, would there be anything to stop someone from say rolling a char and getting early %s in Sing or something every level, or does it prevent that somehow?

In reading about, and things people say about them, it seems to me that cabals have a giant "no newbs allowed!" sign on them, which is fine, I am just curious if this is indeed true, because it seems it would be an excellent source of information otherwise.

As well, I had considered rolling a paladin because it seems interesting to me, and I believe I could role play one effectively, but while it is made clear that empowerment classes arent for newbs, is it supposed to be something you can only dream of after playing for years so you dont get smited by the immortal you wish to pledge to? With shrines being forbidden info, is religion info also forbidden, or is it only what is written about on wizlist?

Is observation exp awarded only for specifically looking at things and mobs, or would I get the obs exp for killing said mob same as if I looked at him? As well, how much different would Warrior X be from Warrior Y with all other things the same except Warrior X went through the tedium of running all over the world at every level looking at things? This is to say, how valuable is it, would Warrior X demolish Warrior Y with his extra edges?

I am aware of the multi thread thing about goodies killing neutrals, but how enforced is it? There is a ton of opinion thrown around, but I did not see anything nailed down. Should my elf expect to sprout horns for killing Tarus for his bracers?

The aspect of spheres seems vague in respect to enforcement. Would it be considered bad RP for a character with sphere Knowledge to not practice a skill? I have wanted to go for this sphere for all my learning chars, but have been afraid of being smited for not learning skills like Mimic or Shell of the Tortoise.

Is it illegal to post an AIM?

>To start, is there any other very in depth site other than the
>aforementioned dikuclan and dioxide's?

I'm not aware of any. You should also be aware that much of what's included in the Diku FAQs is heavily based on the opinions and biases of whoever wrote the FAQ. There's some good info there, but there's also a lot of opinion that's passed off as "fact".

>This game is clearly tailored to group play, which is fine...

Ranking, and getting primo gear, are usually group-based. For PvP it really depends on your personal preference. There are plenty of players who prefer to do their PvP solo, when possible.

>fly up in ranks, but I am left with a lot of my skills very
>low, especially defenses if I am not tanking

One thing you can do is insist to your group mates that you be allowed to tank "as much as you can handle". I did this with a cloud giant sword spec not long ago. I didn't do anything pathological to try and improve my skills. Just ranked, with a group, and tanked when I was healthy enough to do so. By the time I hit the low 30s, my parry was in the 90s and dodge was in the low 80s. Dodge isn't quite as important for giants. Also note that giants are dumb, so if I'd been playing a different race those numbers would probably be higher.

>Any suggestions for the would be soloist?

My advice is that if you're new then trying to solo rank probably isn't worth it. If you really want to try it, I'd suggest picking the right race/class combo, then being good or evil so you get the xp bonus for killing mobs of the opposite alignment. Also, gear with a healing prog is your friend. Having one of these pieces of gear makes solo ranking easier, in that you can sometimes get to the point where you almost never have to rest between mobs.

>I have a lot of great ideas, but I realize most of them cannot
>be put into play to any degree until I am more experienced

This may be untrue. Roles are mostly limited only to your creativity, assuming your role doesn't depend on your character being a PvP badass.

>In reading about, and things people say about them, it seems
>to me that cabals have a giant "no newbs allowed!" sign on
>them, which is fine, I am just curious if this is indeed true,
>because it seems it would be an excellent source of
>information otherwise.

Most cabals don't have any entrance requirements based on PvP prowess. If you understand the cabal's role-play and history, and can articulate that fact to the cabal's members, usually that's enough to get in. Now, you may never be promoted to the highest echelon within that cabal...but that's not necessary for you to benefit from the "learning" aspect.

>As well, I had considered rolling a paladin because it seems
>interesting to me, and I believe I could role play one
>effectively, but while it is made clear that empowerment
>classes arent for newbs, is it supposed to be something you
>can only dream of after playing for years so you dont get
>smited by the immortal you wish to pledge to?

Eh. If you can role-play then I don't think it's a big deal to play an empowerment class. Just make sure you pick an imm that's not dormant and whose hours roughly match up with your own.

>I am aware of the multi thread thing about goodies killing
>neutrals, but how enforced is it?

"Goods killing neutrals" is monitored more heavily when it comes to PvP, but if you excessively kill neutral mobs as a good-aligned character then there may be repercussions if someone is watching. It also depends on the nature of the neutral mob. Is it sentient? Is it some sort of construct like a golem? Etc.

I'm probably jumping to conclusions here, but I think we share a lot of the same analytical mindset when it comes to playing a character. The best advice I can offer from my own experience is to just do it.

Think your character through, analyze to your heart's content. Then, just do it.

Be flexible and really work toward getting a hero. Go with CF's curveballs. Don't delete at the first (or second or 91st) setback. Don't get discouraged at your defeats - log your battles and go through them round-by-round to figure out what to do next time. Search through logs of builds similar to yourself and to your enemies.

Always keep in mind that you'll lose to better players. You can go up with all your skills perfected, edges galore, and a preferable class/race advantage, and there will still be someone out there who will beat you. There are folks who have been playing this game for 10+ years and the art of the hunt, the chase, the kill are completely natural to them. Like, scary freaks of nature, natural. I still tend to fumble around and lose fights because I'm retarded, and I've played on and off for 12 years. My wife even mocks me.

"What's wrong, hon?"

"Igbah killed me."

"Again?! Do you ever get tired of dying?"

"..."

Exploration is also very important as a newer player. Edges help, sure (mostly they're just neat). But more important is the information that you gain. Identify items, create your own list of regear equipment. Track wands and questy areas/items for future reference.

Spheres are intentionally vague. They are flexible, malleable, and open for interpretation. You could certainly roll with a Sphere Knowledge character who practices everything to 100%, right down to pen. Or, you could have a Sphere Knowledge character who only practices pen, dodge, and evade. The pen, after all, is mightier than the sword. Or, you could have a Sphere Knowledge character who is a bloodthirsty bastard who hunts all elvenkind, but only takes magical rings from his prey. You see, he heard a fairy tale when he was young and he took it to be true; now he searches obsessively for the powerful ring from the elf in the tale.

Think outside the box. You can have a lot of fun with a character in an odd sphere. Sphere Fire invoker (learns everything but fire spells because he's afraid of fire). Sphere Peace necromancer (evil like you wouldn't believe, but won't raise zombies because he believes in the sanctity of the dead).

Also, empowerment characters can be a lot of fun. They can also be frustrating. For best results, I typically have a page or two of role early (level 1) and I pick a sphere that has a patron imm. You don't have to follow the religion of that imm, because they typically empower by sphere, not by religion.

Goods killing neutrals - you've already found with this topic one of the great (and frustrating) things about CF. Everything is open to interpretation. There usually aren't any right or wrong answers. The answer is almost always: "It depends". Play your role. If you're a goodie-two-shoes elf who protects the innocent, then you're probably breaking role to kill Tarus for his bracers. If you're a goodie-two-shoes elf who protects the innocent - but hates dwarves with a bloody passion - then it's likely within your role to kill Tarus for his bracers.

Of course, the gods play their role in Thera as well. A patron god of dwarves might not take too kindly to an elf whose sole purpose is to eradicate dwarves. If you do get a "plot twist" in your role (aka setback) and things aren't working out the way you thought, maybe just roll with it and see where things go. Always stay flexible.

And most of all, use the newbie channel! Don't hesitate to ask for help. We've all been there - and some of us still are (mutter).

Ahhhh, another fellow WoW player. Welcome to CF. Manaroth Horde Hunter/BE-Pally, (Slackhunt (70)/Adina (59)) but lost interest and quit shortly afterwards. If your WoW guild was one of those infamous RPers and you raided all new contents, you will fit in just perfectly.

There are many differences between WoW & CF, let me explain them one by one.
1. Unlike WoW, you can actually talk to your enemy and Immortal Staff. If you come of to be a newbie, most of them will help you to their RP extent. For Example, while playing a Pally, I helped a necromancer with few hints where he can get better eq. I stopped killing him till he got a good set and also forbade my friends in his PK range from killing/looting him saying “So and so seems new to the land. Spare him sometime as he needs to learn his way around.”

2. In WoW, the GMs are pretty much douche bags. But CF Immortal Staff is one of the best team of people I have ever seen on any game. They are so good that many people including myself would volunteer time to help the CF community in any manner.

3. If you played a Pally on WoW, it is totally different from playing one on CF. Some how my weakness is Pally/Hunter/Assassin. On WoW, you do not have to worry about empowerment. On CF you have to worry about Empowerment. As Rayihn already mentioned few Imms who have a soft spot of Empowerment Class, they might be a good choice to start with if you want to play an Empowerment Class. Choose your class wisely as each one of them have a different impact when hero.

4. There are few cabals that might be newbie-friendly. Scion is NOT one of them. If you read help file on Empire/Fortress/Outlanders, they make sense and seem easy to get into.

5. Few years back, Description was only thing needed. Now role is one of the most important aspect of your character's life. It gives the Immortals, who do not know your character personally; a chance to look if you are working towards the goals/objectives stated in your role and reward you accordingly. If you implement the role early on, it’s easier for the Immortals to monitor and maybe help you in the direction you wish to take the character. DO NOT depend on them for molding your character. They are just the guide but you are the one in-charge.

Other than that, all you read is good and dandy. But when you are playing, you need to improvise and the materials for other websites are just feedbacks to help your character improve.

Good Luck

Wow, lots of questions! We're glad to have you!

I'll try and answer best I can.

Leveling and skills - it's part of the nature of the game that these things are the way they are. It's all about game balance. Maybe it's tedious, I wouldn't disagree, but it's supposed to be a trade off, just the same as an elf is fragile but smart enough to learn these skills quickly, whereas a giant is dumb but tough. I would suggest playing an arial if you want a nice balance.

RE roles: Each imm reads and hands out xp for roles when they can. This means you have about 10 different people reading roles and handing out xp for them, so each person has a different style on what they like. I, personally, prefer to see paragraphs broken up and roles worked into reasonably bite sized chunks to read. With so much spam going across my screen (imms get a lot of random messages), if a role chapter is more than a full page of text, I get a little crabby. But, again, that's just me!

We think our helpfiles are pretty comprehensive. If you find one that is too vague, feel free to use the typo command on it and request more info. We are trying to make them as helpful as possible.

Stat gains with level are based on your wisdom. You begin gaining these stat gains on level once you have x number of skills practiced. High wisdom will see up to 4% gains, low will stay around 1-2. There is a feat called 'apt learner' that you can take that bumps these gains up.

Cabals definetly do not have a giant no newbs allowed sign on them. However, some are more friendly than others. I would not recommend Scion or even Empire for a newbie. I also would not necessarily recommend Battle, though on the one hand it's handy to have good skills and not need to worry about preps and such. On the other hand, you'll die _all the time_. If you're wanting to embark on a "my first cabal" experience, I would suggest Herald, Nexus, or Fortress. Tribunal, for me, is an inbetweener, because sometimes the laws are difficult to understand or intrepret and the punishment for a mistake can be harsh. My first char on the mud was a Trib and I regretted it. I also would not recommend Outlander for a first cabal. The dogma is difficult and it's very restricted. Once you've learned the mud a bit better, however, I think playing at least one Outlander is a must. It's a great cabal, and lately it's been really well supported by veteren players, which you can learn a lot from.

By all means, play a paladin! I love paladins. Baerinika and Corrlaan and Marcatis and me are huge softies for empowerment. We love newbs. Shrines are not exactly forbidden info, they're just something you should find IC. If you're worshipping Baerinika, for example, and you ask someone from the Fortress or someone with a Baer-type title where the shrine is, they should help you find it. Empowerment can be frustrating for newbies, which is why we generally caution against it, because we don't want to lose new players for something like that. Stick to the wizlist times, write a role relevant to a particular imm, and find the shrine IC and you'll be fine.

Observation xp is only for looking at things. For mobs, it's largely the named ones that you get observation xp for. Also, look in the directions of hidden exits, containers, etc etc.

I don't think Warrior X would demolish Warrior Y with his extra edges. They're designed to add an extra aspect to the game and it's not necessarily one of power. For example, there's a druid edge that lets you sometimes try and poison someone when you cast the thorn spell at them. This is an inconvience, but it isn't going to demolish anyone.

As far as goods killing neutrals, I wouldn't really recommend it. Again, each imm has a different opinion on it. Just try and play your alignment. Ask yourself, If I was orderly good, would I think it's ok to mow down Tarus for his bracer?

Spheres are guidelines for RP. Their main function is for religion. An imm will generally not empower or tattoo you if you are not one of their spheres.

We request that people keep their OOC contacts to a minimum, and therefore would request that you not post your aim. Feel free to use the newbie channel liberally, it's been recently redone to allow higher level newbies to keep it.

Good luck!

First off, welcome to CF. To answer your questions, as far as I know there isn’t anything beyond dikuclans and dioxides. If By off limit information you mean wand locations and the like, you do not necessarily need those to be competitive, especially at low level.
If you want to solo rank, I would say ranger, assassin or warrior is the best way to go. A paladin could be decent, provided you aren’t scared of empowerment. Soloing will take a lot longer at higher levels, but at relatively low levels…pre-30 that is, it shouldn’t be bad. I do know that imms do occasionally give a small bonus to ranking solo if you pledge that you will never rank with others(or maybe never ever group, you might have to ask an imm on that but I do know it exists). Mages have a much harder time ranking by themselves, but I bet it is possible. Maybe an utility shifter would have an ok job of it, I don’t know. I hate solo ranking.

On roles, I think it depends on the immortals. Some are going to like story type…some bullet points. I have gotten exp for both, so I think it depends. If you think the 3k exp is better off later on, that’s up to you. I don’t think it matters much in the long run. I just like free exp to tell me that someone liked my role :>
I don’t think in the beginning you get a skill up every level…I think it might have to do with number of skills practiced, but I could be wrong. The number you received (ie if you get 1% in a skill or 4%) is based on wisdom. If you have 25 wisdom you can get a higher skill up than if you had a 18 wisdom. But for the most part, since its random, its not a big deal. Just be happy if you get it in a skill that’s very useful…like sing. Its an added bonus to leveling.

Cabals shouldn’t have a giant “no newbs allowed” sign on them. For the most part(barring conflicting personalities and so forth), if you showed some effort and know what is written in the helpfiles you should at least get someone willing to talk to you about it(ie to explain any other requirements, all of which you should be able to met as a newbie). Some are harder to get into than others. Scions would be an example. But if you want to join the Fort, it shouldn’t be too hard.

If you want to play a paladin, go for it. Empowerment can be irritating if you don’t know what you are doing, but unless you say screw you Amaranthe(or something to that effect) I doubt you will get smited. There have been many newbs who get empowered. It just takes more willingness to write a role and having a stronger role playing presence. If you are looking for shrines you can ask in character. For example if you are looking for Baerinika, you may ask someone who is tattooed by her for assistance. They aren’t likely to walk you over there, but they might point you in the right direction. Religion info is only as forbidden as the characters make it out to be.

You have to look at the mob to get the observation experience for it. In your example, the warrior who looked at more stuff will maybe get an extra edge or two, which would be a benefit. Its not huge enough, though, to make you automatically lose to him. Edges, generally speaking, are small perks to help round your character.

I’m in the opinion that it should be very rare for a goodie to kill a neutral, but if you can justify it through other means…ie cabal and religion, then go for it. If you are an outlander elf, you might slaughter Tarus, and I doubt the imms will care too much. Just make sure you can justify it for reasons beyond shiny gear.

As for your example of your sphere…I don’t think you need to worry about getting smited for not practicing a specific spell or skill. You can argue your character is only interested in forbidden knowledge…or knowledge that will help further your cause, etc. The spheres are just guidelines. As long as you don’t do something contradictory to your sphere, its unlikely anyone is going to notice(at least as far as I can tell).

Thank you for the responses--

A few more questions that came to me, and some clarifications--

My actual question regarding religion and cabals was this-- is there anything more to the religion/cabal than what is written in the helpfiles? some esoteric tome or something I should come across etc?

Regarding forbidden information on dikuclan etc, its mostly about item stats and newbie items.

Regarding role recycling, I am aware there are 2 posts on this in this forum, but the answers were regarding other people, so I will ask my version--

I have an amazing role idea for a necro (which I'd now like to incorporate that solo thing with since you suggested it), however, the role would only really come to full bloom upon getting lich, which I understand is "not a flight for my wings", as they say, at this time. However, even after I've come to a point I actually could get there, I read on a PBF an immortal saying "you probably shouldn't try to lich if you lost more than 1 con" which indicates to me, since necros are brutal to level according to what iv read, that I probably might have to recycle it a few times to get there.

After that schpiel, the question is this- are immortals going to be pissed seeing me remake the same character 5 times even if said character has had limited involvement with other people?

a clarification...the orc helpfile suggests to me that they are pretty thin (from the word "wiry") yet the orc thats kicking around the priest at the altar is described as thick armed or something along those lines...which is correct?

How long does it take of not playing for you to auto delete, and how long does it take for all your limited items to vanish from not playing?

I am also scared to death of asking questions on the newbie channel, as it marks you as an easy target...I am quite certain I was tracked down by an AP after asking an area specific question (dumb I know, but it was quite early in my efforts)...I doubt it due to not knowing intentions, but is there any protection from this?

Again, I appreciate the response.

>I am also scared to death of asking questions on the newbie
>channel, as it marks you as an easy target...I am quite
>certain I was tracked down by an AP after asking an area
>specific question (dumb I know, but it was quite early in my
>efforts)...I doubt it due to not knowing intentions, but is
>there any protection from this?

It's funny you should ask this, because our new and improved newbie channel fixes this, I believe. I think part of its update is that it anonymizes all players now like it does immortals.

I actually think this does this for players only over level 10, which is an improvement, of course. I actually think it might be a good idea for it to anoymize everyone.

>My actual question regarding religion and cabals was this-- is
>there anything more to the religion/cabal than what is written
>in the helpfiles? some esoteric tome or something I should
>come across etc?

Yes. There is information beyond the help files for cabals and religions. Some of this can be found within the Celestial Lyceum, some within the shrines of various gods, some within the cabals themselves. It all depends on the cabal/religion as to where you might find something related to it. That said you generally do not need this information to join a cabal or get empowered.

>Regarding forbidden information on dikuclan etc, its mostly
>about item stats and newbie items.

It has been a while since I looked at any of these but last I did I found much of the item stat information to be erroneous so they are probably of little help regardless if they are forbidden or not.

>Regarding role recycling, I am aware there are 2 posts on this
>in this forum, but the answers were regarding other people, so
>I will ask my version--
>
>I have an amazing role idea for a necro (which I'd now like to
>incorporate that solo thing with since you suggested it),
>however, the role would only really come to full bloom upon
>getting lich, which I understand is "not a flight for my
>wings", as they say, at this time. However, even after I've
>come to a point I actually could get there, I read on a PBF an
>immortal saying "you probably shouldn't try to lich if you
>lost more than 1 con" which indicates to me, since necros are
>brutal to level according to what iv read, that I probably
>might have to recycle it a few times to get there.
>
>After that schpiel, the question is this- are immortals going
>to be pissed seeing me remake the same character 5 times even
>if said character has had limited involvement with other
>people?

My understanding is that they generally do not like to see the exact same role reused over and over. I would suggest modifying a role before reusing it so that it at least differs in a couple significant ways. But that is just my opinion.

>a clarification...the orc helpfile suggests to me that they
>are pretty thin (from the word "wiry") yet the orc thats
>kicking around the priest at the altar is described as thick
>armed or something along those lines...which is correct?

The help file states they have wiry limbs not that they are thin beings. I picture it as abnormally long limbs with thin, long muscles adding to their general deformity. I cannot remember ever seeing a thin orc mob in the game.