Ok I'm new to this game but Idid have a pretty heated discussion with a couple of players before insisting that this was an RP mud. Now I understand that it is a PK mud as well but it can be possible for the two to coexist and I've seen it. And yet not a single time that I have been killed has anything but: Bad Guy walks in, Bad Guy attacks, I run, Bad guy pursues, I die, I get stuff with some stuff missing, end of interaction. No reason given, no RP, If I'm a paladin and they are a dark elf I don't get a yell like "Die you dirty lightbringer!" or somthing like that. It seems to me that thera is filled with a bunch of people that like to walk down the street and kill random people only because they can.

I have seen this same problem addressed over and over in many different incarnations.

For some reason people believe that to RP...means you MUST pre-announce your intentions towards other players in your area when you walk in. Thusly the other players in the area won't be taken surprise when you decide to attack them.

I'll break it down as easily as possible. If I am a paladin..and ANYONE comes into the area that COULD possibly be an enemy. I'm going to be wary at first..until such time as I've ascertained whether or not they/he/she/it is a threat. If it is the situation you describe and your a paladin and he is a dark-elf. I am going to ASSUME that he is an enemy and attack HIM on sight. This is the nature of the PK/RP balance. If Im good...and he's evil. Its pretty much going to be a throwdown. Unless for some reason he starts yelling, Wait, Wait..I wish to see the redemption of the Light, please don't kill me! Then I might take a moment to listen to his pleas, and decide whether he is worthy of it or not.

At Carrion Fields you will decidedly NOT get the RP of "I come for you, Lightwalker!" because usually what ends up happening is your foes will quaff a recall potion or simply just start running thus reducing the element of surprise.

Lastly I will encourage you to use Who PK, Whe PK, and Whe so often that you begin to type them when your chatting with friends and writing biology papers. I know I do. Its so ingrained into my typing fingers I have a hard time not doing it while logged in as an imm, when it really doesnt matter!

In a real world where people are out to kill you. I'd be looking over my back a LOT, and assuming anyone who I haven't talked to yet...is out to kill me. But that's just me.

Hope you can take the advice of the other posters and learn to regear and take deaths in stride because once you do, the game becomes a rich, rewarding experience.

Enjoy the game!

>
>Lastly I will encourage you to use Who PK, Whe PK, and Whe so often that you begin to type them when your chatting with friends and writing biology papers. I know I do. Its so ingrained into my typing fingers I have a hard time not doing it while logged in as an imm, when it really doesnt matter!
>

HA, You have no idea how many times I have typed "where pk" while working on a cisco router at work... usually when someone is standing over my shoulder...You try explaining what that command does...

' It seems to me that thera is filled with a bunch of people that like to walk down the street and kill random people only because they can. '

That's partially correct. And as you can basically deduce in advance a little already from the fact that 1) the place has actually been named 'The Carrion Fields', 2) by the fact that you are greeted at the log-in by a grinning skull(!) and 3) how actually logging in requires you to provide an answer to the question "By what name do you wish to be mourned?" each time.

The pure PK scene of this MUD can be a bit unforgiving and relentless, and I'd say that this is very much by design in order to cater to the needs of those who tend to like such a set-up. Ironically enough however, it doesn't change a thing to the fact that it still is but one aspect of the game as a whole. I'll elaborate a little.

As a new player who is first confronted by the more or less cutthroat nature of CF its PKing scene, you'll find yourself with two basic options. Either you recognize that as a newcommer you'll almost always find yourself being outclassed by people who have been doing this thing (a lot) longer than you have, and thus you take your losses and go with it, inadvertently learning a great deal in the process and gradually becoming better yourself. Your second option however is to take a largely evasive path from the PKing scene by playing classes that have the ability to effectively conceal themselves from many other player characters, and then use that breathing room to familiarize yourself with they lay-out of the world and to tentatively experiment with playerkilling at your own pace and when you want it to happen, rather than being in constant danger of being jumped by someone else when you aren't prepared for it in any way.

Membership of certain cabals can aid a new player a great deal in both of these two approaches. The Heralds of the Eternal Star for example will provide you with quite a safe place to retreat to at all times, namely the Inn of the Eternal Star itself, as this area is constantly guarded against aggressors while as an inducted Herald you'll have the option to throw any aggressors out the door instantly. It typically is also a place of in-game discussion, meaning there's potentially much to be learned from asking and listening alike over there. If you feel you are able of being more assertive than that however, then you can make a good-aligned character and seek to join the Fortress of the Light. For that cabal is prone to provide you with allies that will help you in many ways and also provide you with valuable information and advice if you politely ask for it.

If your largest problem with dying is attempting to regear yourself directly afterwards, then I'd suggest you read this recent post by one of the MUD's leading staff members;

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=8&topic_id=8691&mesg_id=8699&page=

Oh, and be sure to post your first ever kill on the log board by the way. Not so much for the community, but rather for youself so it becomes archived and you have the opportunity to look back at it at any time. It's a lovely way to measure your progress.

Best of luck and all that. And welcome aboard, by the way.

It's actually not so much that I don't like being killed (although I don't and who doesn't), that would be the exact kind of thing i would expect from a H&S mud. It's just the fact that I'm a bit disappointed to start considering this a H&S, especially after people so vehemently told me it was an RP mud. Paladins shouldn't go screaming at a dark elf thats minding his own business as he walks down the street I don't care what world your in. A paladin aught to calmly walk up to them and be like "You follow the wrong path dark-one, is there any way I can sway you from your path to distruction?". If every good guy always attacks the bad guys and vise versa. It kinda destroys any potential for there -ever- being any RP between the two.

>Paladins shouldn't go screaming at a dark elf thats
>minding his own business as he walks down the street I don't
>care what world your in. A paladin aught to calmly walk up to
>them and be like "You follow the wrong path dark-one, is there
>any way I can sway you from your path to distruction?".

Imagine it's WW II, and instead of a paladin you have an Allies soldier. Instead of a d-elf you have a Nazi soldier. What's the likelihood of the Allies soldier trying to convince the Nazi to denounce his evil ways instead of just shooting him?

>If
>every good guy always attacks the bad guys and vise versa. It
>kinda destroys any potential for there -ever- being any RP
>between the two.

That's true to an extent. RP between foes is usually fairly limited. If it happens, it happens over tells or in some place where they can't attack each other (e.g. a protected city with a tribunal on duty). But that's realistic, and this is one of the best things about CF's roleplay.

The reason this is a RP/PK MUD is that while your view of a paladin can be correct, so can someone like Vladimir's who wants people to bleed for his god (I always thought that he played one of the cooler paladins recently), and so can someone like Solasarath who justs does his thing humbly and damn well.

While you might think a paladin would always walk up to an evil character and ask them to change his ways, you have to ask yourself: Is he a paladin empowered by Shokai (the paladin that kills anything that is evil and doesn't want to repent) or a paladin of Selric, who believes in peace above all. Sounds like you expect paladins to play like a Selric empoweree, while the paladin who killed you plays more like a Shokai paladin.

A paladin aught to calmly walk up to them and be like "You follow the wrong path dark-one, is there any way I can sway you from your path to distruction?".<(i>

Do you prefer theater over life in fantasy world in your concept of RP? It just doesn't work like that in CF. The scenario of paladin calmly walking by and being like "You follow the wrong path dark-one, is there any way I can sway you from your path to distruction?" just doesn't work for everyone. It is a sort of enforced naivete if you are forced to have an opening chatter standing there and willingly sacrifice the element of surprise, which is an important factor in PK. Sure, doing so is optional, but you probably recognize the naivete in going to say "Bad man!" to someone who is inclined to respond by bashing your skull in. Sure, it would go to theatrics like that when there is some artificial restraint stopping them from attacking you.

If every good guy always attacks the bad guys and vise versa. It kinda destroys any potential for there -ever- being any RP between the two.

Has it ever occurred to you to use tell as roleplaying tool?

Whether it has or not, tell is the tool most people in CF use to roleplay with enemies(and often with allies as well) in CF. As for tell RP-wise, Therans simply have this ability to talk to each other's minds over distances. So, tell is a valid tool for in-character communication(you might have noticed that there are no OOC channels in the game beyond the newbie channel and that everyone is supposed to in character all the time). So, since your paladin can talk to people over distances this way, you can safely spout your propaganda to them and thus RP with the enemies.

Sure, tells don't bring the presence of being there within, but if you are an elf RP:ing with an orc, his presence and line of RP would mean bashing you down and eating your heart, so it might be more pleasant for you to interact with him via tells. If someone kills you and you fail to understand why, you can always ask them why they attacked you.


And as for the unsuccessful running away you mention, having an recall potion and teleport potion in your inventory can be a life saver. Just quaff one after you've fled to get away.

Alright so basicly your all saying that this is a PK mud above all else and RP be damned. Well thanks for straightening that out.

>Alright so basicly your all saying that this is a PK mud
>above all else and RP be damned. Well thanks for straightening
>that out.
>

No.

However:

1) RP does not equate to talking. It equates to playing a role and doing what your character would do. That role can involve talking to your enemies, but that isn't necessarily so. A paladin of Shokai is not likely to sit down for tea with a dark elf.

2) Playing your role does not grant you immunity from the consequences of the RP of others. A well-RPed elf character is still subject to being eaten by a fire giant savage whose role involves (among other things) eating elves.

Paladins shouldn't go screaming at a dark elf thats minding his own business as he walks down the street I don't care what world your in. A paladin aught to calmly walk up to them and be like "You follow the wrong path dark-one, is there any way I can sway you from your path to distruction?".

I think you're advocating a fairly stilted, theatrical style of roleplay there, and claiming it's the only valid style. As for "I don't care what world you're in"... how did the heroes of Lord of the Rings treat orcs?

I think you're applying human mindsets to the races in question. I wrote quite a bit about that topic here, using dark-elves as an example, specifically because we had seen a few too many humans-in-dark-elf-suits at the time. The way we've defined our mythos, good and evil are much more polarized than here on Earth, because it lends a more epic style, and makes more sense in a world where necromancers and anti-paladins walk the land.

That said, just because someone is your sworn enemy doesn't mean there can be no meaningful roleplay. Plenty of interesting interactions go on between enemies here. However, it's with sensible timing-- people don't stop swinging mid-combat to deliver a sermon, and that paladin would be a fool to give that dark-elf a chance to slip away or land the first blow.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I think that if there weren't so much overtly OOC information used ICly, then the RP/PK issues wouldn't be nearly as likely. Maybe, just maybe, everyone in the entire world shouldn't know my level and class automatically, and have an instant knowledge if I'm in the same "area" as they are. If you had to actually roleplay to discover information about a target, it would make things a lot more interesting.

Except for the area idea, that would make hunting very difficult.

But I would also advocate that goodies and evils should be able to group together and there should be less class given alignment checking abilities, and even less gear that gives away a characters alignment.

Everyone knows a paladin is a goodie and a duergar is evil, but alarge number of races and classes do impose alignment/ethos restrictions, I would think it would be fun to use that avenue for further RP then make it relatively meaningless by allowing most people to know within moments if a character is good or evil.

>Maybe, just maybe, everyone in the entire world shouldn't know
>my level and class automatically

Things used to work that way here. I'll tell you how it worked out: It REALLY favored veteran players, and it makes being evil an enormous advantage.

If I'm a newbieish paladin, knowing who's out there gives me a better idea of who my enemies are and who I might or might not be able to beat. If I'm a veteran anti-paladin, I don't need to know who or what you are -- there (depending on role) might not be anyone I'm not willing to murder for power, and because I'm a good player there might not be anyone I can't successfully murder for power.

That response totally ignores the rest of my post, which includes not allowing where. By doing that you make hunting by virtue of walking into an area, checking where, leaving, going to the next area, a lot harder. It would also allow for tons of skills/spells based around tracking and character location.

And using the paladin example is bad, since there shouldn't be newbie paladins by your own suggestion. At creation it says for experienced players only.

Also, if its in your role to murder people for power, chances are you should be rping with the person beforehand instead of just straight murdering someone you don't know, because its possible they have some clout etc that might help you through non violent means.

To further expand on what I said, you should only be able to identify someone as in your pk range if you're in the room with them, or have located them remotely by use of a skill/spell.

In addition, player names shouldn't be used unless you've actually learned the players name ICly. Nothing annoys me more than a tell saying "Hey there <mynamehere>, shall we go hunt?"

>That response totally ignores the rest of my post, which
>includes not allowing where.

It sure does! I've seen games that have gone that way and I think it's a terrible idea.

Without even trying to think about it for more than a minute:

Where lets you see a gang of 10 people coming for you. (And you'd better believe a lot more people are going to group up in bigger and bigger numbers for protection if they can't see an attack coming.)

Where is your #1 defense against being summoned to a locked room.

The existence of where gives stealth-advantaged characters an edge that other characters lack. It lets them be strong/interesting/tough in different ways than a warrior is.

>And using the paladin example is bad, since there shouldn't be
>newbie paladins by your own suggestion. At creation it says
>for experienced players only.

Make it a newbie good-aligned warrior then.

>Also, if its in your role to murder people for power, chances
>are you should be rping with the person beforehand instead of
>just straight murdering someone you don't know, because its
>possible they have some clout etc that might help you through
>non violent means.

Depends. If you feed my unholy weapon, I get stronger guaranteed, vs. the random element of what you might or might not do for me later. It's the "No deal" option in the game of deal or no deal, if you like.

>To further expand on what I said, you should only be able to
>identify someone as in your pk range if you're in the room
>with them, or have located them remotely by use of a
>skill/spell.

What stops me from running around everywhere someone in my PK range might be levelling and just trying to murder everyone I see to find out if they're in my PK range or not? Nothing.

I'm not saying that what you want to do is necessarily bad, but you really fail to see how it empowers the kinds of players you don't like a lot more than the kinds of players you do like. This is because you're not capable of thinking like that kind of player.

There are games out there like you describe, this isn't it.

I had a long reply here, but you aren't interested since you've already decided how this game should be instead of understanding how it is.

...since you will have to waste valuable time checking -every single room- in one area just to maybe/maybe not find someone in your range. Not everybody who plays this game has 5+ hours to dedicate to every logon session to do this. There are areas in the game that do this. Where and scan are both disabled that is. I would cry if this were done for the entire game. Which I'm glad it won't be.

Not only that if I'm in an area I'm unfamiliar with 'where' lets me see if someone else is in the area that I can ask for aid or directions. It's not only for PK purposes.

That response totally ignores the rest of my post, which includes not allowing where. By doing that you make hunting by virtue of walking into an area, checking where, leaving, going to the next area, a lot harder. It would also allow for tons of skills/spells based around tracking and character location.

You'd need them, because otherwise you'd never, ever find anyone who didn't want to be found. Or was lost. And at the end of the day, you've made characters learn a bunch of skills just to be competent at finding other people, which is where you started. You could make some characters (thieves, assassins, rangers, etc.) better than others at it, but now you've gone and severely altered class balance, because those abilities are huge for aggressive types in the face of IC obfuscation.

While it would be realistic if we removed tell, where, knowing who other adventurers are, and related conveniences, we're not interested in running a simulation. We're interested in running a game, and I think the suggestions you are making don't help us from that perspective. Just finding one or two companions in a world the size of ours could take hours.

In practice, I think these things tend to decrease actual roleplay (at least in quantity), and encourage small cliques that are very likely coordinated OOC to get around the IC hurdles you've erected. You could decide to hang out exclusively in centralized areas like Galadon in order to meet people, until you realize that the killers have thought of this too, and it's virtually the only place you'll be found with any regularity.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

What really pisses me off about PK here is that if you're a mage it seems like EVERYONE is out to kill you and if you're new like I am, you're pretty ####ed. I think I've been PKed 7 times at level 30 and died to a creature at least 2 and I'm _really_ getting frustrated with this whole "hey its a mage, lets just show up and kill, loot, and run away without any RP!"

Then you get these guys who idle at some level where they have the biggest PK advantage and just run around killing for the Hell of it, I swear if I weren't a Gnome I'd be screwed on con points already. Anyway I'm ranting now, I'm just tired of having died 4 times within 3 hours.

Valg is right though. My regular mud before here was a Star Wars Reality where you got to die once, had to be good RP reason, you didn't get any info on anyone except that which you learned yourself... which isn't bad. However, the areas were small, whereas CF is HUGE; once you knew the basic haunts you were all on a level playing field, but it didn't take much skill. Imperials and Rebels could kill on sight, if you could prove it, which discouraged alot of people from using their better equipment which gave them away for fear of losing their char to a one time permadeath. In CF you can die many many times and still come back, so death really isn't that bad. Because of the heavy restrictions on PK, there were (read Valgs post) cliques of people sharing IC info OOCly and ganging up on each other that way. It was still fun, don't get me wrong, but it was a very flawed system and there will always be frustrating moments on ANY PK mud. CF allows a very fluid RP system, and has some of the very finest roleplayers I have ever seen in the MUDding community.

!!!!All it comes down to is skill!!!!

I am also a newb, and get my ass handed to me regularily, I know this is just a trial that is honing my skills.
The role you create for yourself defines your targets on this MUD, and also creates your list of adversaries that wish you dead. Instead of fighting the ball, try rolling with it. Some characters will ultimately take an exponential amount of skill to be successfull with. If you can't handle getting attacked for what seems to be no reason, try being someone that has fewer enemies.
It may seem difficult at first (trust me I have been in limbo for awhile now) but this is actually a very newb friendly MUD if you approach it from the right avenue. Most of the veteran players are more than willing to lend a hand, mostly because it helps create a more competitive adversary, which is goooood. It takes time, but once you start to learn the system (which is the same with any game on the planet) you will start to succeed and have mucho funito.
Long Live Carrion Fields!

Once you get attacked, c word. Shifters can do revert;c word. Just word out if you get jumped on.

That's not something every gnome has. Anyway, many gnomes seem to have some solidarity toward each other and usually not many enemies to PK, so don't be afraid to talk to other gnomes if you are in trouble. Hero gnomes(who are likely the less busy ones) might help you regear and will likely add the name of your enemy to their short list of enemies for killing a gnome. Not to mention that a small RP moment is often welcome.