Sat Apr 9 19:26:48 2011

At 9 o'clock AM, Day of the Great Gods, 12th of the Month of the Battle
on the Theran calendar Drayden perished, never to return.

Race:	dwarf
Class:	shaman
Level:	51
Alignment:	Good
Ethos:	Neutral
Cabal:	None, None
Age:	406
Hours:	528

Took me a bit to get this typed up. This was my first empowerment character ever, first Maran, my second dwarf, and my second Fortress. I really like the PK part of this game, it gets me excited and as dorky as it sounds I'm really sitting there in sweaty palmed excitement trying to win. I often lose roleplay for the pk aspect and I apologize, I'm really a gamer at heart, but I do like to play roles too, I'm just not as good at "getting into character" as some of you guys, particularly the immortals who are a good example to follow.

In my eyes Drayden was a 50/50 fail win. I had some great times and enjoyed exploring the class, but I also messed up majorly in a some ways. The dynamics for a vigilante dwarven crusader of the light aren't going to shine too favorably on some folk. Cityguards was a big beef. They simply attack you outright, track, and don't seem to care who you are or what you've done in the past. Storm giant shaman in outlanders would have a similar fate. But I don't think they should lose empowerment or be turned neutral for it. I fully expected to be dismissed from Maran. I really didn't expect to get back in at all. I wanted to have a little discussion with an immortal about it, but it never happened. I know that good characters are held to a high standard. I wanted to expose the cabals that put their beliefs over the one of good vs. evil. Tribunal was perfect scapegoat.

IMMORTALS:
Thanks for the game, I've been playing so long and never even thought to donate a measly $5 for the pbfs. So I'll remember to buy my pbfs from now on.

Thror: You really gifted me with the empowerment and I really appreciate it because I didn't know how to go about it other than to find some shrines and start praying. Your prescence is both fierce and gruff, and really put me on my toes. I regret not knowing enough of your religion to actually preach it properly, its still kind of a mystery to me...Needless to say this character wouldn't have gone anywhere without your blessing

Nnaeshuk: Such a great prescence for Fortress! A shimmering portal would open and CRACK theres the warlord, hefting his spear in greeting! Appreciated all the interaction.

Adekar: Yeah I ####ed it up bad. Thanks for not being a huge #### about it :) Did I ever even have a chance at captain?

Ysaolorye: Ya bloody stinkin git! A great sesh with you at your forge, showing me how not to be a puss, and to absolve my wrongs against the kinfolk. Thanks for your time.

TRIBUNAL:

Mudin: Brah sorry for the #### but I loved fighting your komodo dragon, and loved getting you riled up and chasing after me. You were really fair and respectfull the whole time. peace.

Brom: The only lawkeeper that I actually turned myself into. Thanks for letting me be a whiny whore. I had to vent that perspective to someone and you were tough enough to take it in stride. I'm glad I wasn't your enemy but I had to "bounce" myself off you a couple times just to see how tough you were which was very ####ing tough.

Derialx: Starting to sound like an apology letter here...well...went completely OOC with that rot on eastern. Your forgiveness was appreciated as well as the verbal sparage.

Thrawk: Good fights.

Aiocis: Couldn't catch you outside of town, so harassment at the spire ensues. you really almost had me when I got frozen by your spell. good fights.

Karak: memory of you is fading.....guildsitter......teleport master ....good fights...

Radik: Your forgiveness was welcome. sorry about the wife.


EMPIRE:

Liosthen: you were very good at keeping your allies alive, nice job. I found some creepy notes in either in a few sacks that were like contracts I think you had for them selling their souls to the lord of imprisonment.

Sivyh: scaredy cat! couldn't get fights :(

Jerrokrar: You acted like such a giant douchebag I must have wronged one of your previous chars. That OOC #### about you rolling Karkarrak was uncalled for as well, I knew right away it was you and it ruined it for me.

Norington: I like your sense of humor :)

Canus: good fights

Hildara: Couldn't get fights (teleport queen)

Kjaz: liek omg srysly? Drayden > Kjazzy

I forgot the rest...

BATTLE:

Eck: I would just see snippets of you here and there and just be like "whew" its only Eck, he don't want me dead, he's a mage slayer! I really had next to no interaction with your char but he seemed interesting.

Ghrimriddor: Very epic name. Your character must have been really fun considering how much attention you got :P The quest was cool. I always liked seeing your character around and wondering what crazy adventures you were probably getting into. Thanks for the crusaders mark. I got the impression that you just slapped on some armor and was like "I'm here, lets fight!" (newbie leathers?) I should have taken you up on that last ale, cause you seemed to have good dwarf speech and RP down, could have took notes, maybe learned something.

Karkarrak: Im.....going.....to....roll......a rager....and beat....all....your....assses.... quote that.

Elgroth: scarey dude, we had to pile on you to take you down...or did we??? good fights.

FORTRESS:

Kwzawk: I thought you were a bloody genious when you punked the drow healer like that, but understood you were done with the char and had to wrap it up.

Khalen (sp?): Human shifter maran, oldschool, ram offense, good stuff , wished I could have played with you more but you were too old...

Vourecourl: Favorite Maran. Would have rem all dropped all for ya buddy anytime. Wish you could have stuck it out a bit longer I think your replacement wasn't half of what this char was.

Jerohk: fun to travel with but I only got to see you once or twice, keep at it though, don't let him AUTODEL!!!!

Pyogyor: Felt very confident travelling with you. We handled our fights pretty well, don't recall us getting too many though...interesting angle you came with concerning Nexus, I could have easily jumped on that bandwagon too.

Sollin: A lot of fun to play with. Your roleplay was pretty neat, I remember seeing this char develop nicely. Got to travel a few times at least, successfull adventures if I remember correct. No tiamat though.... :P congratz on Avatar!

Athioles: Watched you come up hard in the ranks too. Must have been doing something right! I can't say I would have liked to be on the recieving end of your holy mace of cranials at lev 30 either :P Really wish you wouldn't have fed me that line about becomming captain cause it planted the idea in my head. But overall had a fun time hunting and stomping the everloving #### out of empire (40+ times item taken in a row)

Faeshu: Ya little rascal, you were always down for anything fun which was great because it kinda borring at the end there. Thanks for playing.

Rhone: Another strong character you could tell was going places from the get. Quite honestly I was going to auto this character if you hadn't said what you did, which was something kinda hard like "you better not puss out on us delete now Drayden you dumbass" Thanks for the travels.

Thwerrorip: ACK! THE HARPY!!! BACK TO RULE THE ROOST! Was alot of fun playing with you man. see you in the fields if the harpy permits such adventures ;)

OUTLANDER:

Onya: couldn't get fights :(

Balta: You'd chase me some, then bitch to holy hell when I attacked you back *boggle* saying how you'd strip my ass and whatnot.. what gives buddy?

Selrelia: Drayden thought you were a snotty stuck up elf, and a perfect example of why not all good alligned chars had to be my friend. All this racism is killin' me!!

SCION:

Disori: Got me pretty good that one time in the orc village with the chancellor and orc friend. You gave me some decent fights, which ended up being great practice for dealing with assassins, but I was no match for this one.

Mharldarn: Another powerfull foe. No idea how to defeat this one, really just can't work the angle, would have to be a gang bang or something. Pretty scary stuff, you solo raiding the Fort and whatnot was exciting, you were farkin' tough.

Volkov: pretty baddass, I know you went for alot of the easy pickins and wish I could have got some more fights from ya.

Blartlem: few fights right? must have been a bit rough to roll with this guy, not sure how it went for you all in all though.

NEXUS:
Allysia: Honestly I felt bad about any deaths you might have had because I liked you and knew you were a respectfull player who had good roleplay and added alot of enjoyment to other players. Of course if the balance called for it I couldn't see you as anything other than an enemy. Just the way my mind works. Enjoyed the fights!

Aelzsostsosidn: The gnome meter guy. Didn't interact much but you seemed cool.

Probably forgot a few people but the overall thing I wanted to say was I enjoyed interaction from almost everyone playing. For the record I got full looted a few times. Just not from the ones who were constantly threatening it

GOOD GAME!!! see you in the fields.....

At least, I think that is the character I interacted with you as. Maybe Orinth. As usual, wish I had stuck it out. It's always crazy to see how long characters last after mine are gone, since I have a high turnover rate.

It was you that was having trouble getting empowerment early right? Anyway, point is, I liked your RP in the early years and it was fun running with you. In fact, more of it is coming to me now, we ran together for a good little bit I think. Good times.

Should have been of chaotic ethos, you pulled that off amazingly. :) Thuorn had his reservations concerning Drayden, because you mostly replied yes, but did no, in response to pretty much any advice I gave you, which, well, get's people worried, especially if they are a Paladin (and EP ...).

But, that aside, Thuorn considered you a very dear friend. You were fierce to your enemies, but equally generous to your friends, which is just excellent Dwarf RP. Always ready to help out, share stuff and your knowledge of certain places.

Perhaps it's because I was at the right side of Drayden (:P), but I enjoyed the character a lot.

> Should have been of chaotic ethos, you pulled that off amazingly.

You were turned neutral? Nevermind than, obviously.

Glad you had fun and that you took being uninducted in stride. I had wanted to Maranate you earlier than I did, but I was waiting on you getting more empowerment from Thror before it happened. So, it should be clear that I was a fan of you.

However, you really had too much of a history of going for revenge against neutrals and Tribunals that you had quarrels with to be Captain material.

I thought you did fairly well at one way a person could play a dwarf Thror shaman, but especially after getting uninducted it seemed like you were even less careful about attacking good/neutral Tribs if you were Wanted, so it really didn't seem to me (plus some of the things I heard you saying to other Maran/Acolytes) that you weren't interested in getting back in.

Congrats on the Age Death! Something I've never been to do with a character.

You only killed me the one time, and that was with Athioles. If I had been paying attention I would have remembered to tell Athioles balance was restored and you two would not even have bothered me as I strolled entirely unprepped without even songs down eastern (cause yeah, that's smart). I do hate goodies attacking me when things are balanced, but I especially hate it when they do it because I forgot to tell them things are balanced when I had fought them earlier. :)

Balta: You'd chase me some, then bitch to holy hell when I attacked you back *boggle* saying how you'd strip my ass and whatnot.. what gives buddy?


What gives is I have NO clue what you are talking about. I would take potshots at you, in the beginning you wouldnt fight... after you did start fighting you would rot me as soon as I engaged... After two or three times of that, I sent you a tell joking around saying something to the effect "Drayden seem like rot Balta..."

that was it, the last time I remember attacking you was on the sea of despair and we actually spoke after that tell, you telling me you really did not wish to fight, you wished to hunt evil, etc...

as far as threatning to strip you... I again have no clue what you are talking about... now... that being said... there were a couple of times, different outlanders were completely stripped after being killed... Pago comes to mind as one of them... if you were ever involved in that, then Balta would have told you something to the effect of.. "Keep leave hunters naked, Balta leaves youse naked"..

Balta felt all outlander besides the reaver and warden were his cubs... and as any parent would do, he wanted to help protect his kids.

now, I am not going to try and hijack your thread... I actually came here to defend you... To all the people hating on Drayden... Balta as a neutral who constantly attacked him when I saw... Drayden tried to roleplay it out as not wanting to fight me, because his time would be better spent hunting evil...

Maybe you took Balta's rp the wrong way.. sometimes I was very short with my sentences because... well... Im a cloud giant...

anyway, I never wanted to leave a sour taste in your mouth and all of this actually comes as a surprise... I know I attempted to PK ALOT of ppl, and pretty much all loved our interactions...

*shrug*

GLWYN bro...

Balta

Thanks for the kind words.

I thought Drayden was a very solid and welcome presence. I can't believe you put that many hours no him - you must have had a lot of fun(!)

Knowing what I know about the situation with your removal, I've found it hard to respond to Gaplemo, below, admittedly basing his accusations off "rumors."

Basically, if Gaplemo or anyone else wants to know more - particularly about why Forties were friendly to you afterwards-, he can (and should) find it out IC.

I never saw anything bad from Drayden, and Onya definatly respected the hell outta you. But as far is the no fighting: I only fight someone to kill them. Not to use my wands and potions just to have them flee and/or word. Drayden, being a full maran, couldn't be put in quicksand nor could I ever find you in the woods so that I could put windwalk to use. Therefore, there was no use in fighting you. Again, the whole engaging in fights just to make the other person flee thing is just so weak to me. That being said, you seem to forget the time I attacked your ranking group when we were in our 20's. As I recall I killed your groupmate only to have you find me when I teleported like 30 steps from you lol. Anyways, those young fights still count buddy! GLWYN and dont listen to all the hate. If you ever make a solid character there is always gonna be someone to hate on you for it.

Just a bit sad that I didn't make enough of an impression on
you to make your goodbye thread.  Ah well.  I was there the
day you were booted, I ran with you quite a bit after.  Never
saw anything I didn't like about Drayden.  Not sure what
others saw that are making them so nasty.  I'm sure when I am
done, I'll get some fine words too.

Anywho, as a Serial fortie, I think you did great with
Drayden, even RP'ing a bunch of the stuff I saw as another
char and Drasdan about your kinship stuff. Solid RP, Solid
Char.  Well done.

GLWYN

>Jerohk: fun to travel with but I only got to see you once or
>twice, keep at it though, don't let him AUTODEL!!!!

Well, thanks for the shout-out. I've actually been somewhat surprised how many people have made mention of Jerohk. He's not about to auto, though there was a point in his life I was ready for it. Kids really do a number to your CF time. Anyways, I liked Drayden for what I could run into him. Unfortunately, the hours I can play really miss out on a lot of the interactions.

Hopefully I'll run into you again soon, in one form or another ;)

Overall, I thought you did a very good job. I'll also echo what Adekar said about taking the uninduction in stride. I always enjoyed our face to face interactions and thought you did a great job in roleplaying when I was around. I was a fan from early on.

If I could give some advice (and I tried to give it in character, but failed), make a little more use of the role command. Not only does it help you shape the character, but it also helps when flesh out the character from an immortal's perspective.

Glad you had fun and I'll catch ya on the next go 'round!

Nae-nae

I know you and I both saw the same thing. You came down when I was playing Han the storm giant and we both thought Drayden had the skill to be the new marshall/captain (not sure which), but he didn't EVER hardly voice anything.

He was like a mute killing machine with nothing to say about his personal views or aspirations.

If only he had done...

role subject Drayden, the mute killing machine

role + I r drayden. I rot you no matter who you are

role add

Well you know, I do have my moments, though they are fewer and far between them nowadays.

Enjoyed our times together and GLWYN.

Hey man!

You were probably one of the few original Fortress characters that I can remember being around, congratulations on such a long lived character, sounds like you had a blast right to the end! I enjoyed all the adventures we had and loved your pro-active stance on cabal wars even if you were a little less specific in whom you'd hunt. Anyhow, good luck with your next! Hope we find ourselves on the same side again, sometime in the not so distant future.

Sollin

You were a tough cookie and seemed to chase or initiate despite difficult or otherwise tough seeming odds - Which through me off.



Anyway, scurrrry.

d

Good work being a massive thorn in my side.

Took the turn undead edge, and with those eyes of the phoenix, it was a horrible matchup. At least you didn't flip bananas when I cleaned up your hordes of undead that probly took hours to raise. I've played a necro and it was hella frustrating....good fights!

That you age died is cool, few make it that far. That being said, I am not sure how you stayed empowered. Maybe i'm wrong, but didn't you get kicked out of the fort for killing goodies? I personally saw you attack goodies. It happened. After you're no longer in fortress, you pretty much went after anything that moved, all rp out the window. You attacked at least one nuetral character of mine with NO cabal affiliations whatsoever, and I did nothing to provoke you or any other goodie. I wasn't with evils nor did you ever see me with one. You went after loads of other nuetrals as well. Not only that, but if you DID get booted from the fortress for killing goodies/being a #### maran (this is all in game rumor, I didnt have a fort member but basing assumptions on what I saw, I assume they tossed you) I think its PISS POOR rp for all the members of the fortress to buddy up with you and run around with you after the fact like nothing happened. It was probably WAY late that I found out you weren't even in the fortress anymore. There was no change in anyones behavior other than the maran flag was taken off your name. That's pretty bad when all the other goodies turn a blind eye to the behavior cause they like having a summoner/rotter around.


Maybe i'm way off and you were never in the fortress, and you just wasted everyone you saw all along. But I have to assume that this character started well, and either you just didn't care, or just acted poorly anyways.

When I mentioned full looting earlier, you were one of the people I felt deserved it. Personal opinion, others might not share it and thats ok.

Nothing about this character seemed "Good" to me. Definately not good. I would say Neutral chaotic at best.

When I played Disori, Drayden seemed like a great character. He was super ballsy and took tons of risks.

I deleted and the next time we interacted with a differnt character he had completely changed. He was very unwilling to take any risks, I imagine he spent alot of time at the watcher spamming eq and inv.

As for the fort thing, yes he was in the fortress and got booted for continually killing good city guards and willingly engaging good tribunals. I imagine sometime before this happened he threw all his rp out the window. The part that blew my mind is he got lastnamed after all this had occured and he still continued to attack neutrals on a regular basis.

Bite me.

I was raped, but I really liked it.

Bite me.

What was it like growing up on bizarro world

If that's how you understand my words, so be it.
I'll say again, I did not have any problems with Drayden's roleplay. Even though we were fighting each other. So what. Fighting doesn't always mean hate.

He did attack neutrals but the context of that always seemed to be

1 - they were with evils
2 - they were ranking on good mobs


That to me makes it fine to kill a neutral for at least that session.

I didn't like him personally because he sure didn't mind to 'gank' in the sense of capitalize on a character up against overwhelming odds. As in, an Imperial trying to retrieve from Battle, Drayden would be right there trying to kill the poor schmuck. Nothing wrong with that, per se, but it's just not how I roll.

Read what I wrote. Im a personal example of an uncaballed gnome that was attacked for absolutely no reason while out doing my own thing. Wand hunting, not killing goodies.

You can assume all you want, but you are flat wrong. I'm not the only one that witnessed/saw this either. There is a reason he was kicked from the fortress, he wasn't playing a goodie up to the fortresses standards.

Not living up to the Fortress standards does not warrant being turned neutral. You can be good and still be screwed badly in the head. And keep your empowerment. Otherwise there would be no goodies in other cabals than Fort.

And as to why others of the Fort turned a blind eye, what, did you expect them to shun him? I don't know how they felt about it, but any of my goodies would not dismiss a good friend just because he made a mistake. Or even continued to make them over and over. And Drayden was a shaman, shamans are meant to be angry, overzealous bastards.

So you're playing a goodie, and another goodie that was in the fort with you gets in trouble over and over for slaughtering innocents, members of the light. So much trouble that they kick him out. And you're ok with it? You run with him after that? Even though you know he's out slaughtering the pure and innocent, he's a buddy right? Not only that, he is out for no reason attacking uncaballed gnomes, and might I add many other nuetrals. Not preaching to them, not trying to sway them to the light. Slaughtering. For no apparent purpose other than he wants their armor. That much was obvious.

NOTHING about that says good aligned to me. Not a damn bit of it. Like I said, Nuetral chaotic maybe, but goodie, #### no.

I am TOTALLY fine with behavior like that. If you're evil. I am an abrasive ####head bastard that attacks everything with most of my characters. There is a reason I play evils. Goodies are held to a stricter code of morals AND rp than evils. It doesn't matter if its a ####ing NPC. All those goodie guards he slaughtered on TOP of the goodie pcs he went after, those should all be treated as important as any PC's life. To ignore the fact those things were happening would show your character really doesn't give a #### about the pure or innocent. You're just trying to ride game mechanics.

There should be a disencentive for getting kicked from the fort. You shouldn't hold his hand and be his buddy after that. That's like if an american national guard solder started slaughtering innocent american people and raping babies and ####, and he got kicked out of the national guard for that ####. You think his old unit would be his buddy after all that? After seeing the moral path he took? #### no they wouldn't.

You my friend would be falling into that piss poor rp category I mentioned then. You wanted a summoner around, and you didn't have the BALLS to stick to your guns and rp and not run around with him like a true lightwalker would. Cador OR Shokai would flip in their ####ing graves seeing goodie rp like that.


edited to add-I cannot remember the last time somebody lost empowerment or was turned alignment for this sort of behavior either. Its been ages. Not that it happens that much, but as a goodie imm, I would be cracking the whip a lot more if I was being represented by said character.

As far as I know, he attacked and killed one goodie tribunal when he was wanted. And they later spoke and he admitted he was wrong.

Maybe he also attacked good-aligned guards and uncaballed gnomes. The trick is, I didn't see or know him do that. I'm not omniscient. Nor are any Forties, even immortals.

Okay, now I'll believe your word, he killed your gnome, but I ask are you sure he did this for no reason? What if he was misinformed about you and just didn't care enough to verify? Overzealous. Not evil.

Killing good-aligned guards, yeah, totally not Fort behaviour, but not necessarily non-good. I don't have much experience being wanted, but I think killing in self-defense may be justified.

And please stop personal attacks on me. I could just as easily say you don't have the balls and just freak out because he killed your character. But I'm instead trying to understand why Drayden did what he did, not automatically label his RP as bad.

I'm way to intellegent to die to Drayden. With either of my two imperials in hero range before that OR that gnome.

He went after low hanging fruit for armor and to pad the pk ratio.

And there was no personal attack on you. Read again, closely. Wear glasses if you must. (I swear the reading comprehension around here sucks ass) I said in that scenario, you would be falling in the piss poor RP category. I never claimed to know you had a goodie or that you even ran with him. Its a SCENARIO. It's my opinion, you're welcome to argue it. It does make me suspect after you got so defensive about it though that you did have a goodie that ran with him. To each his own.


edited to add-I was one of the people that thought drayden started strong, was an AWESOME foe coming up through the ranks, and I looked for and expected good things from him. Then, as the character went on, he started to rub me the wrong way, over and over and over and over. If he would man up and claim his character I would gladly debate his reasons/rp with him, but there is no way anyone is going to fess up to the character.

A goodie who ran with him would probably have known of the good guard killing. And would tell him, hey look, it's a wrong thing to do, don't do it. And turn his back on him if he persisted.

Sorry for stirring the argument. I just meant to say, don't write everything down to bad RP so fast. Maybe there was a reason. And what I personally have seen about him, with my characters, was rather okay.

Now, I'd like to see Drayden's player comment on your words, rather than us continue the discussion.

gtell Hey Drayden, I just saw you slaughter than goodly cityguard, please dont do that again.

gtell Hey Drayden, I know you're wanted so you have to defend yourself, but you didnt have to kill that paladin magistrate.

If you think this is good rp, you're either incredibly dishonest, or an idiot.

I once said nearly exactly that with Danaul. It was when I was ranking with Dymon (neutral bard) in frigid wastes and he kept hitting camouflaged trail ranger mobs with his battaglia.

Saying "Please don't kill the rangers" did really make me feel like an idiot, even though he agreed to be careful and no good mobs were further harmed. Think I was a bit powergamey, didn't want to leave the only avaliable ranking group, or make enemies. Made me very unhappy.

Anyway, if I play a goodie and see someone killing goodies, how is it a bad RP to try and talk them out of it? Is it bad RP if I don't get mad at them immediately, preferring to merely shame them for it?

You told the nuetral how you felt about it, possibly WHY you didn't want it to happen, taught him the error of his ways, you stopped, and you continue with him vanquishing the dark.

However, had it been an something that he continued to do after, the whole approach would have to change. Words only go so far, but I am in agreement with how you handled that scenario.

You have to give a little slack to everyone, thats only fair. Some people take that slack and tie their own noose with it though, and it's nobodys fault but their own afterwards.

"Anyway, if I play a goodie and see someone killing goodies, how is it a bad RP to try and talk them out of it? Is it bad RP if I don't get mad at them immediately, preferring to merely shame them for it?"

Theres a difference between seeing random storm giant who is wanted accidentally 1 round a cityguard as he tries to flee and an ex-fortress shaman who has to essentially go out of his way (cast spells) to kill said goodie.

In this case, you know (or have good reason to believe) that Drayden was kicked out of the fortress for not adhering to dogma. You know, at least, that your captain/marshall/imm felt him unworthy to be a member of the brigade. So unworthy that he was removed. Generally speaking, someone who gets kicked is worse than someone who never made it in the cabal in the first place in terms of ####ing up.

You talk to him the first time, and ask him why, the storm giant tells you that he did his best to get away and not harm the cityguard, and the shaman tells you to #### off (this was the extent of his rp in my interactions).

Obviously you are understanding of the storm giant, and would be willing to travel with him in the future.

Until you see him do it 3 more times, then you realize hes not being honest, and you refuse to deal with him further.

The shaman's case, no matter what he said, he clearly intended to kill the cityguard. That is intolerable to one whose duty is to "protect the light, my brother." It is absolutely inexcusable. You cut ties with that shaman and only after he clearly shows remorse do you deign to even speak to him.

Edit: What I mean to say is, unless he clearly lacks understanding of his actions, you do not tolerate such behavior. Unless you're an acolyte, you do not guide the sheep back to the flock. Maran should NEVER tolerate such behavior.

You obviously dont hunt him, but you dont hold hands buddy buddy.

Wow this turned into more rambling than I expected.

Stop acting like you are the RP police for the Fortress and Battle.

Go back to your social group domination.

Theres a difference between believing they can be redeemed, or make up for what hes done, and completely ignoring seeing it happen the 6th time while you're grouped up.

If you see something done repeatedly, you can't view someone as repentant or just having "made a mistake".

That said, I personally do see it as potentially fine for a goodie to kill good aligned tribs. And that's having played an Innis paladin who bent over backwards in order to avoid killing good aligned tribs. I can think of a few roles that feel compatible with being good and killing good aligned tribs.

I'm fairly certain that in the world wars, to take one example, plenty of good people killed plenty of people they believed to be good. (I mean, they did stop fighting on Christmas and play soccer together, so I don't think they necessarily were all brainwashed into thinking the enemy was all evil.) Just because you recognise that someone is good doesn't mean you wouldn't fight them to the death over something you believed in.

NT

>So you're playing a goodie, and another goodie that was in
>the fort with you gets in trouble over and over for
>slaughtering innocents, members of the light. So much trouble
>that they kick him out. And you're ok with it? You run with
>him after that?

I think you're wrong here.

There's a wide variety of good-aligned roles you can play, ranging from the Baerinika-esque purity hardass (which certainly would not think much of this guy) to a more Corrlaan-esque forgiveness Acolytey type who would feel like they needed to engage with him to shepherd him back to the Light.

And, actually, Shokai was always pretty big on redeeming yourself and being able to, at least potentially, make up for your mistakes, so I think you're wrong about him, too. (Cador wouldn't roll over in his grave, he'd just give you a demeaning title for it.)

I totally agree with you that theres many ways and situations to play and RP a goodie. Obviously goodie outlanders will have to fight goodie tribbies, and good dwarves, etc. I'm not saying there is no place in cf for such things. I LOVE out of the box roles that are different and twisted.

But this guy wasn't playing one of those roles, and i'm tempted to buy his pbf to prove it. He was playing a goodie dwarf maran. And as a goodie dwarf maran, his actions were inexcusable later in life.

Remember. I LOVED Drayden. I fought him many times coming up in the ranks, he was a well spoken, awesome opponent that was crafty and not afraid to take risks especially for his beliefs. It takes a lot for me to actually model a character after somebody because I think they're straight awesome (my duergar shaman rivath), and then for my impression of them to change from love to hate. You really got to cross lines and rub me the wrong way a lot.

The guy either lost intrest, or just didn't care anymore because over his chars lifetime I went from a lover, to a hater. And not all from the opponent of a foe either. I had a goodie elf rager that witnessed him do some REALLY ####ty things. Even tried to speak with him about some of them, and I got the typical #### off, dont pretend to know me response. Something like that just sours me, speaking to another goodie like he's some trash duergar when he wanted nothing but to RP a little bit about your beliefs.


And for SOME of the good aligns that rolled with him after, I can understand why. But it wasn't just some. I seen him roll around with other Maran. Not acolytes trying to show him the error of his ways and save them, Maran. A true maran would be disgusted with behavior like that. They would at least step up to him and say something.Somehow I highly doubt though that there was much if any preaching from his fellow cabalmates on his actions and moral choices. I'm more fine with Drayden doing what he did then I am the hoardes of goodies surrounding him pretending like he did nothing. At least PRETEND that he was walking a line you're not ok with.

Lets get something straight. A gold aura around your character does not make you "good". It is not a lisence to do every and anything you want and justify it with the light. The reason I play very few goodies is I know the huge amount of restrictions and RP that go with them. I enjoy them from time to time, but its a lot of work for me not to cross any lines and do it right, so I generally play team evil. I doubt many people would have had an issue with Drayden being turned nuetral. Hell, let him keep empowerment even if he can even slightly work it into his role. But him, having a gold aura, was a mockery at best from what I saw over many many characters. (im talking about his later years, not the awesome early years where I was SURE he would make captain or marshall because he was so awesome)


And yeah, shokai would offer redemption for his actions. But you cannot say for one second he would have condoned them, or let them go unpunished. My point was aside from losing mantle, there really wasn't any disencentive for him to act the way he was acting. I guarantee Shokai would not have sat idle, had he been his immortal, and done nothing. SOMETHING would have been done, even if after he redeemed himself he got rewarded out the ass for just doing what he was supposed to be doing in the first place. Shokai was awesome and will be missed.

And who are we kidding? Cador would have slayed him, purged the room, gave him a #### title AND probably took his empowerment for a week. He also likely would #### on your front lawn afterwards....unless your name is Vladamir. Then he would hide like a son of a bitch :P

I allready bought the pbf and I don't know what you think it will prove, but I'm not trying to tell other players how they should do their thing on this game. I would love to see the player numbers improve and I tried to help people as much as possible. It seems like you've got some personal problem with the way I wasn't punished enough by players and immortals. What does that say about you? Don't feel like justice was served? Please don't troll my goodbye threads mang. Get off it.

It's a public game. I'm welcome to my opinion on how this character progressed. Personally I didn't see you do anything to help numbers improve, (later in life, not early on when you were one of the coolest chars I had interacted with to that point) quite the opposite actually. People would not log in just to not have to deal with you from what I've heard, sort of like a certain character out there right now. Me personally, I welcomed the fights. I don't dodge characters because I have confidence in myself, and its just a game to me. I get my jollys off bringing down powerhouses when I can.

I tried to give fair feedback. That you started great, that i LOVED the char, I even modeled my next build after you. So it's not like im endlessly flaming you. I had nothing but respect and good things for Drayden to start. But I felt like you went from great to ####. Usually that happens when you lose intrest in the character. You age died, kudos. But the second half of your characters life was HORRIBLE compared to the first half. Getting kicked out of the fortress, and shamelessly attacking nuetral players like you did sort of backs that up. I know you could have done better, because I SEEN it from you earlier in life. Maybe thats why Im holding you to a higher standard.

I never told you how to play your character. I was actually more irritated at the goodies around you that acted like nothing happen than with Drayden himself. But I'm welcome to my opinion on how it all turned out. If you can't take criticism then I feel sorry for you.

And cf police? Please. If people didn't call people out for shady ####, we would all do shady #### because there would be no negative consequences. Peer pressure keeps everyone here in line. Thats life.

Edited to add-Just read your goodbye. Like I said, I could tell from what I've seen youre a great player, but seriously, I hold great players to higher standards.

Thwrerrorip talked with him quite a bit after, only ran with him a
couple of times raid/retrieve types trying to stick a hand out to
help with redemption. Much like everything else in this game what you
think you see is not always really a tootsie roll.
Hehe

...of me and Drayden getting drunk after he got kicked out of the Fort.

He expressed real, genuine (at least his character) remorse about what had happened.

That's really all you can ask for a goodie. It's one of the reasons my last Fortress character did his best not to be WANTED. But it's a tough road to hoe when there are evil characters in Tribunal. Especially ones that sit on duty a lot.

PS The misinfo about why he got booted is funny. He got booted because he rotted Derialx (which is kinda bad, but he realized that).

I also agree with the others that a TRUE goodie doesn't just abandon his friends because they lost their way. A true goodie continues to try and redeem their friend.

I know I've been attacked by allies and people that shouldn't have killed me because I had the same form as a SCION that was on at the time.

If you were a gnome invoker, obviously discount this. Unless of course you were slaughtering dwarven mobs.

I loved drayden both as Thwrerrorip and Truhukk. For different reasons
of course. :) I thought you pushed too far as a maran, but damn you
were fun. Have a blast with your next.

I was a huge fan of Drayden.

Well done age-dying.

Was good to see you off IC. See you with the next.

Thanks for shooting me that tell, I didn't plan on getting to say any real in game farewells. See you in the fields!