1. Lyristeon i really love you:) Thank you a lot! You are no doubt best Immortal. I know i suck at rp and i basically don't even understand the half of what people are saying when they RP, i only know mostly easy common words. Whenever you began speaking with me i was like stunned, i didn't know what can i say. If you was another Imm i would kiss your ass, but you don't accept it and that's why i was lost and never knew what can i say to you. I really wanted to tell you something many many times but i didn't know what to say. THANK YOU again! :) Love You! Really.

2. BUT to compensate my lack of rp i was trying to help every Goodie character i met (of course except conjurers, dwarves and paladins). And i was doing my best to help all not evil Outlanders. I think i spent 1/5 of character's life just helping other Outlanders. I am sure it counts as RP too.

3. Shura's best friends were Balta, Kotone and Verino. I could say many words, but i will just say that i love you too :) Really enjoyed every moment we spent together, you ROCK. There are also many good young Outlanders and the cabal is now very strong. Hope Verino becomes Sunwarden.

4. About looting. Usually i took 2-3 shiny things i saw in the corpses. I took these things not for myself, but for other Outlanders. I gave shiny things to many not evil Outlanders. I am sure every caballed goodie should do the same.

5. About full looting. If you steal/sacrifice/break my staff i will full sac you. Is it right or wrong? I don't know, but i did it. The weapon for healer is basically the only way to land PK's and doing something with healer's weapon means totally ####ing up the healer. And of course if you tried the cleave/flee tactic i wouldn't let you do it with no risk for you. I think i also full saced 1 or 2 people who talked #### to me, i still can't understand why do people feel the need to tell some #### to the one who made them run or killed them. And of course thiefs who steal things they don't even need.

6. I read on the forums that i only fought weak people. This is total ####. I gated and tried to fight __everybody__, every powerhouse in CF. Of course i couldn't kill few people because i basically did no damage to them at all. But i tried. Killed whom i could, made run whom i could, ran from very very few people myself i couldn't do anything against.

7. I read on the forums that i attack everybody. This is total #### also. I attacked all evils except Outlanders. Never attacked anybody of the Light except Rinalis and Markus - 2 magistrates. I attacked neutrals only if they were conjurers/dwarves/minotaurs/nexans/thiefs who stole from me or if they attacked me first. Why Nexans? First 150 hours of my life i didn't attack them. But this #### about killing huntress, spirit and taking fetish made me sick finally. After 150 hours of looking at this i began fighting all Nexans.

8. The worst thing is that i play 12 hours every day. I attacked people only after 2 hours after i killed them before. If i played 10-20 hours a week nobody would notice me at all or would have a feeling that i don't let them play CF. But i played 100 hours a week and that's why many people thought that i don't let them play CF and spam kill them. If i played 2 hours a day i would simply login, attack few people, raid, help someone and quit - and everything would be alright.

9. I really wanted to play to age death, but god damn it's so boring playing the same characters for 350 hours. I will now take the rest from CF for about half year.

10. Didn't mean to ruin someone's fun. I'm sorry if i did. But again this is only because i play too much. Love CF and love you all, Lyristeon the most of course.

PEACE! :)

My current character had not played with you much but I do know there was a point where you returned at least one item to a enemy that was taken from them that was adamantite or partially adamantite. The only thing I would say on that is make sure you read descriptions on what exactly the item is or made of so that you do not have issues with Outlander rules, etc. Just a thought.

Otherwise, you were amazing from all the things I've heard in the respect of healer PK. Good character, good luck with your next.

This character actually encouraged me to stop RPing with my character and just attack anything that moved. Have no idea how you stayed empowered as a goodie much less made leader. Will say impressed how bad ass you made a healer, even if it was super power gamed.

Thought you did an awesome job as a pk - healer... very hard to pull off.. and was always excited when I saw you log on, new we would go on some sort of adventure, glad I could teach you a few things, you taught me a few as well... think is the first Shapa-char I got to interact with...

Hope to see you back...
More when I die ;)

Balta..

But really, like Lyristeon said, it's not that hard to trounce a healer. People who are prepared for you can beat you up. If I were to recall some of my PK-type characters, I really don't think any of them would have any trouble with a gating healer (except the invoker on open ground, but the invoker can sit near a death trap and buffet...). Classes were storm sword warrior with a 40-50 damroll most of the time, dwarf axe warrior (weaponbreaker) again with massive damroll, elf bard (sing symphonic, sing dirge, flee and skirmish), elf transmuter (transmuters are really, really strong! And I was only a Squire, so I was in the same position as Wremol).

But you really did an amazing thing, and that is PK well as a healer. And I'm a great fan of your PK ability. All things being equal, on the balance of probabilities, I will assume that the character with 200 PKs is played by a better PKer than the character with 10 PKs.

Also, I congratulate you on the tattoo. Hope this indicates to you that RP is not beyond a person who speaks English as a second language! Good luck with your next, and I am sure you will be easy to spot.

Both oocly and ICly I hated you, big time. However oocly I was SUPER impressed on how you managed to bring down some pretty rough foes. I've had a Scion healer myself with a superset that I tried to PK with... Utter failure. (Not that I died much but failed to seal kills.)

However, I got the feeling that you were powergaming, bigtime. So that's a BIG - to me.

And the full loot/sac on Cawr was... Well, it was warranted ofc. Seing as I had 0 chance in killing you, I went for the cleaving tactic. Had only planned on doing 1 cleave, after the insects I decided to make a run for it, when you came near me, I cleaved again, trying to keep you of me. (Screwed up big time, having no boat and using the gills I was toast once I was blinded.)
I don't think I went ooc at all on you, I tried really hard to do it all ICly even though I was FUMING after losing that superset and the charges I had.

So, in summary: ICly: HATE HATE HATE. OOCly: Hate + respect for your skill.

You bring quite a bit to CF pk-wise, a challenge is always good.

It is easily countered.

Except by conjurers with archons. >:)

I really don't get your post...

You can't cleave people who are somewhat hurt.

You don't have to be THAT hurt for cleave not to be possible.

If he was open to being repeatedly cleaved, it is because he kept healing himself too much prior to each engagement. I know I got a newb healer with one of my ap's because he just kept spamming heal and I kept spamming cleave until it worked.

The reason goodie conjies can't do much against the cleave spam tactic is because if they have an archon it'll keep healing them when they are safe from it, making them vulnerable to it again.

They only heal if you are below 75%. I guess it depends where cleave gets cut off at.

By "work", I mean where I wasn't able to attempt it repeatedly.

As an aside, pretty much every one of those conjurers called me a one trick pony, even though I only tended to use that tactic against their build. Also I did sometimes sleep the archon instead, but they like to ignore that.

You taught me a few things, and forced me to figure a few other things out as well.

Our fights were usually one-sided, but it was extra sweet when it swung my way. Getting you was definitely a highlight for me.

There's something to be said for having a nemesis that you absolutely despise, that is a challenge to beat, that makes your life an utter hell. See you in the Fields.

The best, imo, is an opponent that is so on par with you that you end up fighting them from the early, mid, and late levels and just never know which way the fight will go. I absolutely love those.

So yeah... I got full sacced. I thought it was pretty funny actually. Didn't bother me at all. I even enjoyed the snide "Hope it was worth breaking my staff" comment. Hell yeah it was! In general I think it's pretty damn funny the masses bitch about someone who full loots/sacs in one breath, and then bitch about people hoarding equipment in the next. I tell ya the climate has changed so much in 5 years in regards to looting and I often miss the old days where pkdeath meant either a complete regear, or a raid to get some of your stuff back out of the pit of the enemies cabal. You know what made the old "great" chars great? 9 times out of 10 it was their ability to regear with basic crap, and then turn around and pk with it to get a set.

The only thing that really ever irked me was seeing true outie enemies logged in with numbers, but I'm the one you're attacking. No big deal. Didn't really hate the char too much, not a whole lot of interaction on the ally side when you were only logging in an hour or two here and there, and not much more than an annoyance I had to deal with as a perceived enemy. I mean really... it's only con in the long run and there's probably some method of winning I just haven't figured out yet. So good luck with whatever comes next. I'd think you're tired of gate/murder healer by now.

I liked the char and it was obvious you were very very competent. Good luck with your next.

You really had me pissed there a couple of times (can't rank, can't
gear, can't poke my head out without Shura poppin in) :) and surprised
me near the end. I was kind of looking forward to another talk.
Perhaps just through tells instead of standing around in the woods
next time :). Too bad too. I would have needed, well if not exactly a
'friend' someone I could talk to. I totally get the playing too mcuh
though. My wife, let's just say she has bad timing for wanting me
to do something around the house. *rofl*

For those of the multi-killing complaints. I TRIED to get Shura
to come kill me again right away a couple of times. No go.
(I actually had a reason by the way*, sadly it was player based
and not character based. So I realized I had lost the character
and it was time to go. I hold off a little when I get like that
just in case inspiration strikes, kinda like lightning, it didn't
hit where I expected. Hah!)

In any case thanks for the talk, thanks for the humility.
(Yes the first time I was mad at myself since I don't think I
have died to a healer that wasn't the lucky blow in a gang
since... wait... I don't remember EVER dying one on one to a
healer. Might just be my memory though. Good show. I was
impressed and 'damn that healer!' all rolled together.)


*If you want to know the reason let me know of a way to contact
you where I don't out myself publicly. i.e. I can't exactly post
my email, but I think you'd get a kick out of why I tried to get
you to come back and kill me again.

Have fun with whatever you do next.
Truhukk

It is very sad to see you leave, especially in this way, after your last death for which I am responsible. :( But I am still very slow and clumsy in mud pk (and often don't know what is happening in combat). You knew that, and I hope you understand it this time.

As a new player, I really appreciate the time and effort you spent on Verino by showing me stuff, teaching me how to fight, leading me into many fights that we had, etc. And we did a lot of things together recently, and likewise, I enjoyed every moment of it.

Shura is a great support character. Verino always feels safe while traveling with her, because Shura never let him died. It's sad that Verino teleported away in their last fight with the Commander and left Shura unconscious (because the player stupidly thought that Shura had run away).

I hope you will come back soon, and good luck with your next. :)

But not in the OOC way that is obvious from the forums. The reason I was going to start posting logs here instead (despite it being a lot more work for me) was I was annoyed that my log was the launching point for an OOC attack on you. Especially since the log was of two orcs trying (and failing) to gang down a healer.


Perhaps my feelings are just because I never died to you, so I didn't get the full sac treatment. I'm sure I would have, you lost a lot of staff to me. I don't have a problem with gate murder healer, but you were annoying, and if I could have done something about that eagle-inscribed staff, I certainly would have.

Good luck with your next. Ignore the forum ####.

NT

gr

Because it was the idiots again.

I am at a loss for words,

I can't really say anything beyond. Dude, read the posts. You are supposed to be the moderator and immortal if you can't manage either of those duties PLEASE STOP POSTING ENTIRELY AS AN IMMORTAL.

We don't support your opinion.
We, as the player base in fact think this is ridiculous and the idea that you are behind this is insulting, not unsurprising, but insulting all the same.

In reflection
The playerbase doesn't like to see jackasses who do nothing but make playing the game a frustration.
The playerbase doesn't like whiny people who drop full loots because someone took/broke their one annoying weapon/shield/item (after being an obnoxious pest for the past RL hour)
The playerbase doesn't like it when immortals tattoo and support characters both in game and in the forums who are KNOWN to be a jackass.
The playerbase doesn't like it when you call them all dumb idiots who can't see whats going on, when they obviously are or they wouldn't be posting logs about it.
The playerbase doesn't like it when moderators go around acting like little kids in forum posts (Especially when the tone of the original post was very civil)
The playerbase wishes you'd stop supporting chaotic stupid.
The playerbase wishes you'd support all forms of RP. Not just jackassery that amuses your sick sense of humor.

But I digress.

The playerbase doesn't like it when immortals tattoo and support characters both in game and in the forums who are KNOWN to be a jackass.
The playerbase doesn't like it when you call them all dumb idiots who can't see whats going on, when they obviously are or they wouldn't be posting logs about it.

Just kinda highlighting those two. I'm sure if you think you can understand why.

PS Hope things are going well with you!

FWIW,

>The playerbase doesn't like to see jackasses who do nothing
>but make playing the game a frustration.

Agreed. I don't think Shura fits this bill, but others have. She definitely "grifed" a lot of folks, but was damn near altruistic to others as well. (Edit: So you can't say "nothing but")

>The playerbase doesn't like whiny people who drop full loots
>because someone took/broke their one annoying
>weapon/shield/item (after being an obnoxious pest for the past
>RL hour)

True. I can see an AP going ape-#### on someone IC for saccing their weapon, but a goodie doing it over having one item looted / broken seems pretty lame, especially when it's so easily reacquired (when it's destroyed).

>The playerbase doesn't like it when immortals tattoo and
>support characters both in game and in the forums who are
>KNOWN to be a jackass.

There is an observable correlation between Lyristeon followers and character who get a bad rap as "griefers" on the forums/OOC. I'm not going to speculate as to why or say it's necessarily Lyristeon's fault. It's observable, though.

>The playerbase doesn't like it when you call them all dumb
>idiots who can't see whats going on, when they obviously are
>or they wouldn't be posting logs about it.

Some of Lyristeon's posts do seem a tad unbecoming of an Immortal, but that's probably because the staff seems to generally approach forum discussions with a lot of formality and brevity, and often in a very impersonal tone (even when made by individuals).

That said, sometimes we deserve to be spoken to like children.

>The playerbase doesn't like it when moderators go around
>acting like little kids in forum posts (Especially when the
>tone of the original post was very civil)

Agreed. Not sure that's the case here, yet.

>The playerbase wishes you'd stop supporting chaotic stupid.

I do too. Shura wasn't chaotic/stupid though. Others have been.

>The playerbase wishes you'd support all forms of RP. Not just
>jackassery that amuses your sick sense of humor.

I think Lyristeon does, albeit invisibly, so we only see the stuff that is the Lyristeon persona, which may or may not carry a certain amount of negativity with some people.

That is what I think is my objective $0.02 on the matter.

It happens more often than it doesn't happen. I think it is part of playing an ap, quite frankly. If people didn't sac it, ap's would be overpowered (even more than barrier already makes them).

Unfortunately, some ap players counter this issue by getting an ooc buddy to keep them alive or to grab their weapon when they die.

>1. Lyristeon i really love you:) Thank you a lot! You are no
>doubt best Immortal. I know i suck at rp and i basically don't
>even understand the half of what people are saying when they
>RP, i only know mostly easy common words. Whenever you began
>speaking with me i was like stunned, i didn't know what can i
>say. If you was another Imm i would kiss your ass, but you
>don't accept it and that's why i was lost and never knew what
>can i say to you. I really wanted to tell you something many
>many times but i didn't know what to say. THANK YOU again! :)
>Love You! Really.

The thing is, broken english works extremely well in Outlander. My religion is about always being in motion. Live each day as if it were your last. You did that and that's why you earned the tattoo. Your actions spoke volumes even if your words didn't.
>
>2. BUT to compensate my lack of rp i was trying to help every
>Goodie character i met (of course except conjurers, dwarves
>and paladins). And i was doing my best to help all not evil
>Outlanders. I think i spent 1/5 of character's life just
>helping other Outlanders. I am sure it counts as RP too.

Yep, I noticed a lot of that.

>
>3. Shura's best friends were Balta, Kotone and Verino. I could
>say many words, but i will just say that i love you too :)
>Really enjoyed every moment we spent together, you ROCK. There
>are also many good young Outlanders and the cabal is now very
>strong. Hope Verino becomes Sunwarden.
>
>4. About looting. Usually i took 2-3 shiny things i saw in the
>corpses. I took these things not for myself, but for other
>Outlanders. I gave shiny things to many not evil Outlanders. I
>am sure every caballed goodie should do the same.

This is what I noticed.

>
>5. About full looting. If you steal/sacrifice/break my staff i
>will full sac you. Is it right or wrong? I don't know, but i
>did it. The weapon for healer is basically the only way to
>land PK's and doing something with healer's weapon means
>totally ####ing up the healer. And of course if you tried the
>cleave/flee tactic i wouldn't let you do it with no risk for
>you. I think i also full saced 1 or 2 people who talked ####
>to me, i still can't understand why do people feel the need to
>tell some #### to the one who made them run or killed them.
>And of course thiefs who steal things they don't even need.

This is what I noticed as well. Revenge is okay in my book.
>
>6. I read on the forums that i only fought weak people. This
>is total ####. I gated and tried to fight __everybody__, every
>powerhouse in CF. Of course i couldn't kill few people because
>i basically did no damage to them at all. But i tried. Killed
>whom i could, made run whom i could, ran from very very few
>people myself i couldn't do anything against.

I watched you kill very competent players as well.

>
>7. I read on the forums that i attack everybody. This is total
>#### also. I attacked all evils except Outlanders. Never
>attacked anybody of the Light except Rinalis and Markus - 2
>magistrates. I attacked neutrals only if they were
>conjurers/dwarves/minotaurs/nexans/thiefs who stole from me or
>if they attacked me first. Why Nexans? First 150 hours of my
>life i didn't attack them. But this #### about killing
>huntress, spirit and taking fetish made me sick finally. After
>150 hours of looking at this i began fighting all Nexans.

Yep, for your first nearly 300 hours, you hadn't killed one good-aligned character.

>
>8. The worst thing is that i play 12 hours every day. I
>attacked people only after 2 hours after i killed them before.
>If i played 10-20 hours a week nobody would notice me at all
>or would have a feeling that i don't let them play CF. But i
>played 100 hours a week and that's why many people thought
>that i don't let them play CF and spam kill them. If i played
>2 hours a day i would simply login, attack few people, raid,
>help someone and quit - and everything would be alright.
>
>9. I really wanted to play to age death, but god damn it's so
>boring playing the same characters for 350 hours. I will now
>take the rest from CF for about half year.
>
>10. Didn't mean to ruin someone's fun. I'm sorry if i did. But
>again this is only because i play too much. Love CF and love
>you all, Lyristeon the most of course.
>
>PEACE! :)

Very well done. Just so you know, I didn't make you the Sunwarden. Another immortal did.

You were watched closely by quite a few immortals. And the rewards you received were earned on merit.

I am just sorry that so much was actually said before you deleted and for that I apologize.

Good luck when you come back with your next.

> This is what I noticed as well. Revenge is okay in my book.

Revenge is fine. As long as its warranted. Full sac for anyone who disarmed and swiped his staff? Super lame.

So he's saying it is ok for him to take a few shinies for others (fine) but not ok for someone to deprive him of his favorite shiny?

I gave Shura credit for taking risks, but reading this good-bye now makes me understand why he was so hated.

And I can sympathise with this, as I had the exact same thing happen to my paladin. Not only did my weapon get swiped and that caused my death shortly after, but it got swiped by a villager after I died fighting imperials.

.

nt

I believe it is warranted if the player feels that way. When someone dies, their entire set is forfeit. It truly is that simple. If people want to leave gear behind in the hopes of having their gear left behind if they die, that's fine too. I would have been pissed if Shura got full looted/sac'd and complained though.

"I would have been pissed if Shura got full looted/sac'd and complained though."

She complained about ONE piece of gear and used it to justify full saccing people, how do you not see this as worse?

The whole revenge thing is an act of complaining in and of itself. I got no problem with having repurcusions out there but I feel this should have been followed with perhaps thror removing half of shuras con if he killed a dwarf. While somewhat rediculous its just as rediculous as destroying all or most of someones gear over destroying one piece of yours.

A more appropriate response (that wouldn't lead to the OOC rage you got) might have been destroying one or two pieces of gear.

A smart person would just not use the staff in situations where it might get broke if it means that much to them.


It sounds though that aside from your indiscretion with saccing this was a decent char though.

Way way back I had a character in the powerful cabal Servants of the Dawn. It was one of my first heroes and I went up alone against a certain entropy lich.

The result was predictable and I died. The result was that Zorszaul did a "order all get all corpse" and back then zombies could carry enormous amounts so he of course took it all. And it is not like he could use it because we all know how that lich was dressed.

This was the norm when fighting people. They took as much as they could carry, sometimes they gave stuff back but often not. Dying in Galadon, which often had 20+ people in it, meant 3-4 people out of pk standing and spamming "get all corpse".

I remember a Battle and Arbiter war, holy #### those special guards hauled away enormous amount of eq.


While I really like the changes in the player base mentality and I'm often even leaving eq I could use because I feel bad about a kill it is not like that is a cf rule or something the immortals require of you.

nt

That's funny. I also had a Dawn character during that time. I also died to Zorszaul. He didn't loot a single thing from me.

I think he actually stopped looting after a while. But at the beginning he was very much the standard "o all get all corpse". For example:

http://www.qhcf.net/forum-1999/logs/messages/5150.html

I'm not sure if he gave stuff back afterwards at that time but it was certainly not the norm back then.

It's no longer 1992. There are a lot of things that have changed since those days.

One big difference, though is that there was a bigger playerbase, a smaller arealist then. You could quickly regear and find someone to fight. Now, you can easily end up with only one or two enemies online. You're not going to be able to do a quick regear, bash down a noob or walk by a full corpse on eastern and get rolling again.

The smaller playerbase has real implications about whether or not you should act with sportsmanship.

.

The gear situation was totally different in the old days.

There is a difference of handling revenge IC and OOC.

Just out of curiosity...

Would you have viewed him negatively if he had full sac'd literally <i>every</i> person he killed, without exception?

Why or why not?

Since that IS viewed as bad play by the imms. And yet, if every piece of gear is forfeited, why is it viewed as bad play?

The answer, of course, is the funstick. The person destroying the gear doesn't get satisfaction to the same degree as the guy losing it gets down, by and large.

I bet if you look at why people took breaks from cf, it is often linked to a full looting.

Also, if you loot a newb, they can't just run out and regear because they probably don't know which gear is good or where it is.

I agree pretty hard with the whole looting a newb thing. I've tried bringing friends to the MUD a few times, and all three played for about two months and then left after a few full loots because they just couldn't regear worth a damn to even level.

...they shouldn't be playing a game like CF then. CF kinda sucks. Because the highs are so high, the lows are also very low.

Though one thing confuses me. They couldn't regear worth a damn to even level? Are they solo-ranking? Because the only situation I could see where a crappy geared character would have a hard time leveling is pre PK. Seriously man. Ranking is ABSURDLY easy now.

Awesome that you are trying to bring people to the game though. Keep it up!

If I'd been full looted repeatedly as a newb, I'd have left and not come back. As it was, part of what got me hooked was evil dudes killing me and leaving me gear because "the gods of darkness admire the strong, and I'll need my gear to grow strong enough to please them". And evil dudes helping me regear. And evil dudes helping me get out of ginormous exp holes.

Gear does matter at low levels. If you have a lot of +hp gear, you are very unlikely to die. If you have none you are probably going to die a lot because your hp will run out before the lag from that bash does.

I don't know why people are all up in arms about this over his looting or the bad English thing. Both have been part of the game for years. Has it come down to the playerbase is divided into Russian vrs non-Russian or something? I think the most he ever looted from me was 4 items, even when I was MEGA decked, granted he only got the chance twice. Was he annoying as ####? Yes. Was it against the rules? No. Excepting his trigger use, of course.

And he took only a couple of pieces of gear from me.

You know that "having your own gear left" is NOT the only reason people leave gear?

Some of us leave gear because we have empathy for our fellow players and don't think they'll enjoy regearing, especially if you can demonstrably kill them at will.

It happens that I will usually full loot someone if I saw them full loot someone else, but that's to discourage their behaviour, not so much because I am worried about it happening to me (although I do think being full'ed sucks), but to stop them doing it to others.

Elhe, I noticed, acted in a similar fashion. When he heard about an imperial getting full looted by someone, he made a point of killing that someone and doing it to them. I thought it was kind of impressive that a vet would take the trouble to protect the newbs like that.

I was the absurdly geared lowbie fire sword spec circa 2008.

I mean, I'm just saying.

Personally I'm fine with treating people a certain way as a deterrant. How many times have you heard people talk about full-looting/saccing a guy who keeps coming after their ranking group?

How many times has the discussion on how to stop supposed griefers etc led to the comment 'Just kill him and full loot and full sac'.

I have no problem with either not being a dink or being a full-looter/saccer, but please let's ####ing quit with the holier-than-thou posts from people like you/Jalim etc. FFS I love Jalim but that asshole cleaned out my inventory and then deleted with all my #### with one of his thieves. Just because he knew it would piss me off ;)

I do think people whine a bit overly much myself. I was full looted just recently and I though to myself: well-played sir, well-played.

I'm not a full-looter, but I certainly condone and support the use of it. Everyone has their own little code involving it, so its best just to realize its subjective and the only hard-fast rule is following the rules set forth by the staff.

Would have been smarter had they used that advantage to do something against my team, but you do what you want I guess.

The only time I have ever been full-looted that bothered me was a multi-char full loot. I get killed by a thief. I kill the thief back moments later. He logs another character and brutally mops the floor with me. Then full sacs. A pray settled the issue. I didn't get my gear back, but meh its just gear.

So I don't think it is whining to say that it is a sucky thing to do.

Sure, if someone can use it all, but otherwise? Bleh.

First, I really disliked you simply because I am an explorer and you always gated to me all the ####ing time and put insects on me. Made it so I couldn't bother exploring, hence me saccing all my #### the other day. That day I was on a laptop at my families, so slow connection and no aliases, or anything. Decided it wasn't worth keeping it since I was going to go dormant while you were alive, I suppose if I knew you were gonna up and delete that wasn't neccesary. Oh well. Was annoying as hell. I never saw you full sac, and you certainly never did it to me. I dunno where people said that from. The only thing that REALLY made me detest you was your trigger to sac weapons on disarm. I thought it was funny that Lyrston posted a thing about busting people with triggers when you use one. Oh well. Oh, and that staff is retarded. I would have kept it from you if I ever got the chance.

Also thought it was ####ing funny as hell that your buddy Dervish posted on EVERY post that MIGHT have even slightly been about you on both forums. Nice to have friends I suppose.

All in all probably the deadliest healer I've seen in the game in 14 years of playing or so. So good job on that.

I actually had Dervish pegged as either this character or a buddy of this character, purely based on his posting on every Shura thread.

Eh? We were enemies. He (she?) attacked me not once. I returned the favor too. OOC wise we had quite a harsh rant not so long ago in Gameplay forum. And whilst I know the player I do not have any OOC contacts with him.

My posting on his (her?) threads was mainly because I am sick of endless whining about literally everything. Thing is most of people never blame themselves for their faults. Instead they blame others, poor balance, etc.

It is not their fault that they entered a cursed area, knowing about hostile shifter above them, fought with completely wrong tactics and died. No. It is poor balance, because shapeshifters are OP. It is not their fault they went into nasty area, removed their pants, assumed doggy style position whilst there is an agressive PK oriented healer around with nasty leader powers. No. It is a healer who is douche and again it is poor balance.

Well, one more rant ended :P

Oh, and playing a PK-ing healer is soo far from my style I can not ever imagine I'd try something like that.

>The thing is, broken English works extremely well in
>Outlander.

This is a very troubling statement. It strikes me as very shallow and reminiscent of chaotic-stupid as ideals for a cabal. Broken english should not be considered good RP unless it really is part of the role. Was it in this case? Even if it was, being in Outlander should not excuse what in my view is a very serious impediment to RP.

I welcome Russians, and anyone else who speaks English imperfectly, but a player that can't understand what people are saying or respond back, can't really RP. There are a few niche roles, such as deaf/mutes which excuse a character's profound inability to understand or respond, but those roles require a very strong facility with emotes to do well. There's an enormous difference between the intentionally broken English spoken by some characters and a true lack of comprehension. And for the vast majority of roles, linguistic communication is absolutely critical. If the interface allowed for gestures and facial expressions, it would be a different story, but this is a text-based role-playing game. Talking to people is 90% of how communication is done.

RP is not all emotes and speeches, by a long shot, But it seems wildly inappropriate for someone to be empowered, tattooed and made leader (yes, not by you) if they are fundamentally incapable of participating in a major component of RP. And that is what is disappointing. Yes, allowances should be made for people who don't use English well, but that doesn't mean handing out major RP rewards to players who are incapable of participating in the dominant mode of RPing. It's not that Shura should have been denied, or even unempowered, because of his RP limitations, but to see him tattooed and made leader, well, that's just disheartening.

When people are being rewarded despite being obviously (both in play and by their own admission) bad at RP, then why should I be bothered? It makes me think I should just bot, break character and all the rest, because it won't make any difference. If there's no standard that people are going to be held to, then why should I bother trying to RP well?

Outlanders are outcasts of society. Where is "proper" language spoken? Schools in cities. What do Outlanders hate? It really is quite simple to understand. His rp was fine with the broken english. You don't have to give a complete dissertation to be a good rper.

I find this expectance of knowing the language superbly troubling as well. Sounds like someone from the Tea Party.

>You don't have to give a complete
>dissertation to be a good rper.

No, you just have to be able to understand what people are saying and respond. Not really that high a bar.

>I find this expectance of knowing the language superbly
>troubling as well. Sounds like someone from the Tea Party.

I wasn't sure whether you meant "Being superbly proficient in the language" or "it is superbly troubling."

If it's the latter, my answer is that I never said anyone has to know it superbly. Just that IF someone doesn't know it well enough to basically communicate (which Shura claims he doesn't) THEN they shouldn't get the top rewards for RP.

If you meant the former, then my answer is that in general society, I agree with you. But CF isn't general society, it's a specific context requiring a specific skill. It's not discrimination or conservative politics. To draw an analogy, a parapalegic can't be in the NBA, because to be a top-level player, *you have to have use of your legs*. You can play in the Paraolympic games though. In CF, you can't be a tatted cabal leader, because *you have to be able to communicate*. You can play and be in a cabal though.

Think I'm exagerating? Shura describes himself as someone who "sucks at rp and ... basically doesn't even understand the half of what people are saying when they RP"

What does a tattoo mean to you in CF? Is it an award for excellent RP or is it just something that you get eventually?

For the record, I'm as liberal as they come and think people in America at large should speak whatever they want (or nothing if they prefer). Life isn't CF.

You know the tea party is named after a group that threw a bunch of tea away?

har har

So as not to derail:
I liked Shura. Was cool to me even though I was never sure if she would attack me or not.

>You know the tea party is named after a group that threw a
>bunch of tea away?

Yeah, but those guys liked tea, didn't they? Didn't they?!

Seriously though, you're right, but I don't care :P

For their rp.

Firstly, it does kind of make sense for outlander (although it does have a bit of a clicheed feel to it at times too).

Secondly, I would rather have ESL people than not have any.

Thirdly, Shapa's english isn't that bad!

I play CF for the RP, which, while often lacking, can be quite stellar. To hear the player of this character admit that they are incapable of egaging in RP because of the language barrier makes me scratch my head.

There is a difference between roleplaying an inability to speak and truly, honestly not being able to communicate. ESL is fine on this MUD, but if your grasp of English (which is the entire MUD environment) is so poor that you can't engage in what is touted as the game's primary reason for existing, then why play? There's Call of Duty or whatever first-person-shooter floats your boat.

As for the comment about Valkenar being a member of the Tea Party, I don't remember him saying that everyone, everywhere should speak English. He just wondered why someone who can't RP should be rewarded in an RP capacity on an RP MUD, but that's a nice deflection.

Shura did rp just fine. Broken English is fine as well.

n/t

He admitted only that he couldn't participate in long tea parties. Maybe for you it's sign of awefull RP. Dunno for me bad RP is breaking cabal/align/character dogmas. And I see that enough from those stellar RPeers.

n/t

nt

And we all know that Lyr is the devil.

But just because he admits that he sucks at RP doesn't mean he sucks at RP. In fact, during his whole reign, I haven't seen anyone say he sucks at RP (this came in after the fact) or have a huge problem with his broken english (this also came in after the fact).

I mean, it's obvious to me and some other people that he played a goodie healer outlander for the powergamey aspect of it. He did NOT play for the RP - in fact, chances are he never played the game for the RP.

Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily - people play for different reasons. Hell, I remember a time a few years ago when I made 4 gnome water shifters, all in a row, and powerranked them to 48 just to see what forms I got.

Look at some of Beront's character (Kjrorh to name one).

What's disturbing, and what I don't like about Lyr's response, is that it appears (correct me if I'm wrong) instead of trying to foster a playerbase and thinking of the entire community as a whole, I just get the impression that it's more like 'it's my way, I'm the imm, I represent the imms, I gave rewards/awards, just deal with it, I don't care about how his actions affected the pbase.'

Just doesn't seem like he's taking the complaints seriously.

To be honest, I never interacted with Shura and hadn't considered that "I can't RP" could mean "I don't think I can RP, but I can."

My opinions are my own. Other imms chimed in. Several saw nothing wrong with it and told me so. One did who told me so. The only "rewards" this character got from me was empowerment and a tattoo. No edges, no nifty gear, nothing else. He was leadered by another imm. If he got anything else, it was from another imm.

My religion, for all intents and purposes, is about non-stop motion in seeking your convictions. If you are an enemy, you are to be hunted. If you are someone who likes to take a break every now and then, you won't do well with my religion. It does inspire a bit of the powergame stigma that some people don't like. I on the other hand tell my followers to live each day as if it is your last. I can live with that. Some of my followers are found to be neat, others are hated. It is supposed to be about the gaping maw and that won't happen if you are latent in your motions. Shura was never latent. He "lived" his life with purpose and non-stop action. Whether it be hunting or helping, he never wanted to sit around and wait for things to happen.

When people were prepared for his tactics (I know it was a her), he didn't do nearly as well. Because he always attacked with a purpose or plan, he rarely died. But, he did die. And usually to someone who was on to him. Does dying to a healer smack an ego? Sure does! And he abused some egos by doing such. All the more power to him for doing it.

Nothing for nothing, but with all of the snooping and watching by several imms, most of this just comes across as WAH WAH WAH. This isn't about a guy who full looted/sac'd a huge portion of his kills. Heck, it was very few. And he had a reason for it. You may not like his reason, but if you didn't do what he was full looting or sacing for, then it appears it didn't happen to you. I saw him leave more things than he ever sac'd or looted.

I know people who tell me they are good at stuff.

I know people who tell me they are no good at stuff.

It doesn't mean the first lot are better than the second. It just means they think they are better.

Just because someone says they are no good doesn't make it true.

I roleplayed goodie by helping other goodies and Outlanders.
I roleplayed Outlander by hunting enemies and non-stop raiding of Spire, Empire and Scions.
I roleplayed Sunwarden by speaking with applicants, though i never was hard with applicants and basically inducted everybody who wanted to become Warden - perhaps it's bad :)
I roleplayed Lyriesteon's follower by always doing something of the above.

I didn't speak too well and that's why didn't do it very often. That's why i told i suck at rp. But i always tried to speak with other Outlanders, goodies and applicants if there was something worth speaking about.

You played a good healer well. I was an enemy a few times at various ranks and whilst I never died to you I never got the hole 'Shura is a douche' vibe from you.

I think maybe the attitude about losing your staff and how you treated people for it was a little less like a 'goodie' but a chaotic could swing it, especially one who is designed to evoke emotion in others as your God's religion prescribes to.

I liked Shura as an enemy,

-----Abernyte

If you can't understand why 90% of your post is wrong/unfactual, send me a PM on Dio's (account is Sam).

Short answer: Outlanders hate civilization. Speaking broken english = common non-civilized type of speech.

That said, it does not have to be a bad thing, it's a pk mud after all. I surely understand that someone would like the challenge of handicaping themselves, by playing a 'weak combo', like playing a class that is not designed for pk. I applaud that. If you are actually succesful with it too, that's impressive.

But ... The (reason behind the) staff in question is a key part of why the Shura combo worked, the player behind it made it work very well, to his merit. Now, it's only natural that victims try to break this powercombo by removing a key part, ie. the staff.

If this response results in a full sac, then you are taking it too far, because you let ooc reasoning/anger/frustration bleed through icly.

It's great to throw the gauntlet, but rather than punishing your opponent for losing, you should reward him for accepting. Even more so if he made it an interesting match.

You didn't rp much but what you did was spot on. You were the ultimate support character and I'm glad you did what you did. In all my years of playing I've seen many many annoying gateto/killwithproggedgear healers but none on the good side. Thanks and be it friend or foe cya next time!