Mon Jul 20 00:27:19 2009

At 6 o'clock PM, Day of the Bull, 8th of the Month of the Dragon
on the Theran calendar Tialan perished, never to return.

Race:	elf
Class:	paladin
Level:	51
Alignment:	Good
Ethos:	Orderly
Cabal:	FORTRESS, the Fortress of Light
Age:	540
Hours:	232

nt

I mean you managed to write three whining notes to the village about totally gay things in the span of 40 minutes.

while villagers don't hunt non mages, if they stand somewhere and say don't do something or else, and you blatantly do it, expect them to respond with violence. battle does not = fort, you don't get a hug for being confrontational with them.

The dude is annoying, and this is FAR from a death thread. And all he wants to do is say how tough he was and that he didn't whine when we all know it's all untrue. It's annoying.

It helps me understand insanity better.

.

If I can make a suggestion, you might try working on containing your knee-jerk emotions a bit better. I suspect that's the source of a lot of the issues people had with you. I believe you may very well not be aware of how you come across, and containing your emotional response is key to fixing that.

For example, when I was grouped with you as Drungith, and you found out I got the temperance virtue when you had no virtue at the time, your entire demeanor changed. It was instantly obvious that you were upset about it, I assume because in your eyes you felt you were more deserving of it than I was. Then I saw you again later after you got hope, and the fact that you were unhappy with it came through, again, immediately. I don't think you were going for that either time, I think perhaps you adopted that attitude without thinking about it.

You may not agree, but I can tell you that with my last three Fort characters, I never ONCE got full-looted (unless the death was on the Eastern Road, or in Galadon or something similar where the level of traffic makes it inevitable). It all comes down to your attitude and the way you come across to others.

Of course saying "control your emotions" is often far easier than it is in practice, especially when you don't necessarily see the problem yourself. Anyway, good luck with your next.

Aarn

As a fortress/Maran paladin I'd be coming in my pants if I got Hope + any one of the Faith/Fortitude/Temperance/Retribution paths.

The ability to sanc your whole group and word your whole group is ####ing retarded...if used right.

I know Humbert and I used to have talks about Hope Paladins and how they are like having a healer for the whole group in raid situations.

I wont disagree, Hope is a bomb as virtue if you want to be considered the ganky paladin, its makes your groups alot more powerful, but its tre suck if your going for that deadly lone hunter paladin. And thats exactly what happened here, I got Hope, and then everytime someone else from the Fortress was online I was pretty much the raid healer, ending in what looks to be a ganky paladin, who in fact did ALOT of hunting solo.

n/t

The Imm decides which Virtue you receive, which is why its such a skewed system. Hrrrrm, I like this paladin lets give him Temperance/Retribution, but this one not so much so lets give him Hope/Faith. Basically your Imm decides exactly how deadly or not deadly you will be, and its completely out of your hands.

n/t

That Baer commonly gives out only 4 of the six virtues. 1 of those four I give out the least because I think it needs to be reworked and made a little tougher. 1 more she will give if it is role fitting, and the last one I've only ever given out once and I kinda regret that one time. Not that the character didn't deserve it, but for my role that one just doesn't fit my religion very well. Personally, I think Hope is a great virtue. It's versatile and well rounded. When I discuss the religion with someone I usually ask them to detail out what's most important to them and try and assign one of those four virtues accordingly. Tialan talked a lot about wanting to lead and inspire, and this speaks of hope to me.

(This is not license for my paladins to do nothing but RP at me like "temperance temperance temperance love you baer pleas give me temperance temp plzkthanks".)

And here we have a misunderstanding as well, because I had no clue you only gave out 4 of the 6, nor really any clue what you expected of a follower. I prayed constantly asking for guidance in becoming a btter follower, as sphere Courage I just tryed to RP being courageous, which I think he pulled off even if no one else does. I just cant understand if you were watching so much, you undoubtedly had to see the frustration building, between the no contact, the multiple gank/fulls, why not step in and offer some encouragement, or if he was such a poor follower, some guiadance in becoming a better one, for which he prayed more than once?

She's not the best Imm to rp with. She's still trying/learning (as obvious by the Mergulla thread). And you know, she's another player in the game, granted she has a higher power than everyone.

Did you try contacting her via note/email?

As in any religion, I think you need a take on it, whether it's the standard spiel or just something completely unique, and go with it.

Once again, leading back to RP.

Could you maybe not have to say I don't know how to RP in every post? It's starting to sound offensive after the 10th time. Maybe I was just knocked speechless by the sheer amazing awesomeness that was Serth.

I didn't mean it to - the point is, you're still learning, I'm still learning, etc. so people's expectation shouldn't be that they'd be blown away by rp.

n/t

ANNE RICE IS SO ####ING COOL YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSINNISVAL

Raybaer, don't get riled by this guy's judgments. There's no accounting for poor taste.

I'm just a player with his own expectations. Do your thing - by all accounts, besides the naysayers, you're doing it well. I'll eventually come up with a Mergulla/Baer follower and probably really like you.

I think my thing with you is more along the line of Kharnial's Imm application, where you thought I wasn't up to being an imm because I didn't play enough goodies and to a small degree, other stuff.

I like Anne Rice :P

And I like creepy :P

That's not who I would have picked to hold up as the RP standard.

I will say that Eshval had and maintained a real passion for doing interaction that few of us can match. Certainly most of mine got beat out of me a long time ago, but his never seemed to.

.

>And I tend to unfairly judge Imm RP based on Eshypoo's. Everyone has
>different RP, but she was just something else n/t

I think you might need to acknowledge your own personal biases in here.

For example, I personally didn't like the way Eshval did things at all. And I read your posts the same way Baer did - as a shot at her. Not that she and I have always seen eye-to-eye either, but maybe you could at least be less obvious in your bashing? It's lacking in class.

Aarn

I'm not going to get into a graatchesque argument - but I didn't say she's the worst imm, but not the best imm, and concluded that with saying that she's still learning. She has her perks and she's actively participating in the mud, and in my opinion, greatly assisting in it.

Anyways, I think I got Tialan to really think about what he's saying, so I'm done on this thread.

asdf

I have a problem with this someimes. Worse a coule years back. Then I realized it isn't worth it to get upset over playing a game.

Just be consistent in whatever it is you're doing, and eventually you'll do well. Who cares if you lose a couple along the way (be it PK's, RP or whatever).

Hi Tialan - Please take the time to read this -

For all those people who accuse him of being a Defiance whore - Not true in the cases of Humbert helping him. Without giving too much detail, if you are a skilled Paladin who won't lose Defiance in 2 days, Humbert will get Defiance for you. I've lost track of how many times Humbert has told the precise mechanics of that fight to people.

(A plea: Daevryn, please don't change that fight like you did to a quest in one of your areas, or I'll really have to shut up about things I took ages to figure out because of OOC reasons when ICly I can't refuse to help an ally when there is no real cost involved).

Tialan was brave, willing to fight, willing to gank, do whatever it takes. I thought he was a great Maran. But I also thought he was not a good player. OK, Arrna's no-full-loot rule is very unreasonable in certain cases (you kill solo enemy while in regear, you trade all your pieces for all his pieces), but there's really nothing you can do about it. For what it's worth, Humbert has had to change certain things too out of respect for rules a Marshall set for the Fortress(keep in mind he was once Marshall, not a Squire or new Maran).

Tip for goodies - Don't trust a fellow goodie to save your arse, unless you have confirmed beyond doubt that the person's not a newbie. Part of the reason why Humbert hunts alone so often is because he cannot trust his allies to always make the right decisions or even be as well-prepared as him when they need to be (preps). Dragging a groupmate and having the groupmate die is terrible, for a goodie.

I understand your frustrations about perceived ganking and you not ganking people - it comes with playing a high-powered class that does not seal kills well. The best thing you can do is really to be gracious, keep attacking and hunting and killing with extreme prejudice, but be as nice as possible if role permits (leave their stuff, don't talk smack, don't respond to them talking smack, etc). Most the time someone talks smack to you, they really just need to vent. They don't need to be shown why they are being illogical or irrational. I am sure when you rant, it is the same. So... put yourself in their shoes, just let them rant. Then go on and gank/kill them again if it is in your role to do so. Why get into a long non-RP bitter exchange with an enemy? Obviously he's trying to get under your skin. Rise above it, don't respond, or maybe just offer one kind statement, and no more - any more might be perceived as condescending. Keep in mind I break these guidelines often enough myself, we all have our bad moods at times and just lash out at people. But from people who've spoken of you (Fortress is full of gossip) and from what I've seen of you, you do have an air of self-entitlement. I'm not saying you're not entitled to it. You probably are, if you acted nice and made everyone like you OOC. I hate to say it, but your OOC reputation is just as important. That is the reason why few people make roles that are meant to intentionally piss off other players and invite full loots, ganks, sacs, less IMM love, more IMM hate, etc. By far the hardest thing to do (and incidentally also the thing that garners the most respect) is to be kind and never pay someone back for the ####tiest things they do to you. Coincidentally, that also fits in to general goodie RP, even the nasty vengeful Maran types. Kill, spam kill, level sit, do anything you like - just be as nice as possible in every area you can afford to be nice in.

So your problem is not your game, it's how likeable you are. You can argue that that should not be the case in an RP/PK game, but that's the way the world works. If the boss you're working for hates you, he's less likely to 'notice' the nights you stay up late and the excellent reports you send, ESPECIALLY if you constantly tell everyone about these things and how you should be promoted.

Good luck with the next.

He got all the advice he needed for someone well on his way to getting his thread locked.

Bard Repertoire Clarifications:
http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=23735&mesg_id=23735&page=

This extends to how immortals, and in particular the one who empowered you, regard your character.

I've said it before, but here's the basic recipe:

0. Have a role entered w/ the role command and follow it. This does not mean you have to constantly make references to it in conversations with people or use gay emotes and esays.

1. Do the "obvious" role-play thing as much as you can stomach, but whatever you do, don't go OOC on someone. Especially if it's in the form of a rant or a whine.

2. Make a concerted effort to get your PKs solo. This may mean you get fewer total PKs.

3. Don't loot stuff you don't need. You might also extend that to include not looting things to give to your allies. While this diminishes your ability to be "the guy showers pimp gear on his friends", you may find that your enemies return the favor and leave your stuff alone if/when you die to them.

4. If you kill someone with assistance and you have the ability to prevent your group mate(s) from looting stuff they don't need, make a point of doing so.

5. Don't do obviously crappy things like kill someone right after he unghosts, multi-kill someone, etc.

6. Don't be a gear whore. For instance, if you're a paladin and discover that some other guy went and got Defiance, don't complain about it. Don't harass people to trade with you when they say "no" the first time. Don't ask heros to go get you stuff. Don't be the guy who's constantly asking mages/shamans to locate gear for them. If you log on after a crash and there's something else you should be doing besides getting gear, such as retrieving your cabal item, then take care of that first.

7. Don't act like you're entitled to any sort of perk, whether it be getting promoted to maran, getting a leader spot, getting tattooed, getting another virtue, etc. That is the quickest way to make someone not want to reward you.

8. Don't be a total wuss when it comes to managing risk. Being extremely risk-averse is a viable (possibly even optimal) tactic for some builds, but it certainly doesn't endear you to anyone who might be watching. Being less risk-averse will probably mean you'll eat more PK deaths. It may also mean you get more PK wins. It will definitely cause staff to want to watch the character more often.

Other than the ranting thing, I dont think I did any of these things, and its hard not to rant when everytime you die you come back to an empty corpse. I hunted solo alot, even though it may not seem so because I only managed to seal a few kills alone, it it nonetheless true. As for risk aversion, your talking to the guy who cried into Ahtieli, Gzurweeg, and Dolce fighting the tara bal, so I dont think that was ever an issue at all. And while people have tried to turn this thread into me expecting something I didnt earn, I didnt expect anything, other than to speak with my Imm more often than once every two hundred hours, I never once said I should have been tattoed, or titled, would I have liked those things, sure who wouldnt, my complaint was and still is that she just basically ignored the characther day after day after day. If nothing else vis yourself and tell me to shape up or get the hell out. Another thing about the looting that made it so frustrating, is that for his entire life, the only person he ever took more than two things from a kill, was Messervy, I took the two I was allowed under Arrnas rule, and Humansunder, which he stole from Humbert while Humbert was trying to defend me against the three man Scion gank, yet I still got fulled nearly every time I died. Add to that the frustration of being ignored by Baerinika, and yes I lost my cool a few times, which is easy to do under the circumstances.

It appears to me that when you lose a number of items that consitutes a full loot. Or at least, it brought about you promising to full loot us because you lost defiance and both prayer beads.

For the most part i didn't mind this character, but your posts on this board have really soured the whole thing.

Not sure who took the things, but no, when you and Ezranil and Messervy ganked me at the Fortress, I came back to about four things in my corpse. When I am wearing a pimp set, and come back to three or four items, thats pretty much a full loot in my book. Not saying you took them, because I dont know, lots of little scavengers hide out around cabals waiting for such things, but I lost a hell of a lot more than Defiance and prayer beads after your three man gank.

>When I am wearing a pimp set, and
>come back to three or four items, thats pretty much a full
>loot in my book.

This is where your problem is. In order for it to be a full loot, some person (or group of collaborating persons) need to have been the ones to take your stuff.

If I kill you and some random lowbie comes by and steals all your stuff then that is the guy who full looted you, not me. Get pissed at him, not me.

If I kill you and take 3 or 4 things, then some lowbie comes by and takes the rest, I still did not full loot you.

That was this once occasion out of I would say probably ten to fifteen full loots, and I dont know that some lowbie came and took my things after their three man gank. He claims they didnt take it, but I know they destroyed Defiance and two sets of prayer beads, after a three on one gank, so I dont put it past them.

Personally I dont consider it a gank when you show up to defend against a raid or retrieval, and the reason you died away from the watcher is merly tactics to increase our chances. Then its merly dying while defending. Its another thing entirely if you get killed by three people on eastern road, THAT is a gank.

On that note I never took anything from you, and I only saw my allies take a few items like defiance, prayer beads and perhaps 1 or 2 other items.

I personally dont even consider being attacked by three people on eastern road a gank. If you actually let three people get to you and attack you, its just because of being careless. However, if you get slept or knocked out and then allies get called in, then its unavoidable and turns into a gank.

I guess its just extremly different definitions of what a gank is. Two vs One isnt a gank in any way or form within my definition of it for example.

I mean, most of the time when I come back to a full set of eq, or even half a set, I'm pretty happy that I kept the stuff. Especially if I'm a big baddy that takes out multiple odds..or for that matter, if I'm just a lesser non-descript character.

Consensus seems to be that you were in the middle - not necessarily a mover, but not necessarily really really weak.

Coming from a third person point of view, you really didn't have the respect from your allies or enemies to have them somewhat obligated to leave your eq.

Am I missing something?

You trying to read too much into these posts from a few people, mostly the ones I had troubles with at that. I had plenty of respect from my allies, the ones who were competent, and earned my respect in turn. And I even had respect of some of my foes, the ones who didnt feel obligated to leave me naked after I willingly walked into a fight with 3+ foes. I fought and bested quite a few of the real tough charachters currently around, so if that places me in the middle, I suppose that should show exactly what you are missing. As for leaving my gear, I never expect to come back to nothing being gone, as I tend to gather some of the more elite gear that some people never even see, much less know how to get, but when I come back to nothing, its just so damned frustrating sometimes I lost it, espcecially when it happens over, and over, and over.

'You trying to read too much into these posts from a few people, mostly the ones I had troubles with at that. I had plenty of respect from my allies, the ones who were competent, and earned my respect in turn.'

Might be true.

It seems your OOC frustration bled into the character. Shouldn't a fort paladin really respect/have the respect of the entire Fort? That's how I view paladins in general - the ultimate goodie. Every goodie respects him. You're striving to be the best of the best, and your actions just scream 'respect me!' Maybe my view is a little skewed, since I really never played a paladin before. My next pet project?

'I fought and bested quite a few of the real tough characters'

Alone? In a group? Situations? I got my ass handed to me a few times by not so buff characters as Kharnial... then there was Dhaath and Mhaar (screw you guys!) who beat on me for whatever reason. More often than not, I'd take on 4-5 and beat two while living.

I have one or two ooc connections in the game, and from all that I've seen with my current and read, you weren't that awesome dealmaker that you seem to make yourself out to be. Not to impugn on your character, but I really don't sense any type of humility from you.

'As for leaving my gear, I never expect to come back to nothing being gone, as I tend to gather some of the more elite gear that some people never even see, much less know how to get, but when I come back to nothing, its just so damned frustrating sometimes I lost it, espcecially when it happens over, and over, and over.'

Based on this quote and your other posts, your issues are that you weren't a) given the attention you feel you deserve, b) given the virtues you wanted with your character and c) looted out your ass a few times.

a) You shouldn't strive to seek attention, but it should come naturally while you enjoy the character. I may sound a little preachy, but that's how I found that I really enjoy my successful characters. Granted I was less than impressed with Baer when I initially approached her at her shrine with Serth, but I realized that I was trying to get her to notice me, instead of it coming naturally to her, as the player, thinking 'wow this character is awesome to keep track of.' Unless you're like Beront, RP really keeps the character going, not just pk. And, once again, from my limited read in these posts, your rp was kind of being a prick.

b) At least you got 2 virtues. Just not what you expected maybe? Kind of like shifters - you win some, you lose some, and you either have the choice to delete/reroll or just go with the flow. I think IMMs do generally give out virtues on your role - was your role tailored towards temperance/retribution? I've thought of roles tailored towards a certain quest form, but generally they're less than successful because I can't enjoy living the role.

c) It happens. Quite for a bit, and move on. Heck, I bitch at being looted for 3-5 minutes after I get looted, than I just proceed to pk/gather eq. No one likes re-equiping (I certainly don't), but being a good makes it easier since you have request. I'm curious to see which items you had that not many people know about. And also, if you went to check for those items after a reboot.

What was your expectation for this character? What was your purpose/goal? Massive pk? 3 virtues? etc? You seem dissatified with how things progressed.

I had some good solo kills, quite a few actually in my opinions, as well as some from what might be termed a gank. I can only think that most of these gank type kills on my part came from raiding situations, as I rarely ever hunted with anyone other than Shadrist, who wasnt even around towards the end of this characthers life. I slew the orc chief more times than I care to count, slew the Provost, slew Messervy, acutally slew the orc chief, then the provost within minutes of one another as I guess Adeg was coming for the orcs corpse, all while alone. I slew Ccurtohn at the Fortress, granted I caught him out of form, but he had Lornis there as the alligator, in form, and Zatale there as well, fought the three of them and killed him, once again alone. I slew Messervy while raiding for the Scepter, granted duergar thief means wrath meat, but he was still slippery and hard to kill. I imagine a few of what looks like ganks on my part as well are either me jumping fights, to protect someone, such as when I slew the Nightreaver, when he had nearly killed some conjurer who I cant remember the name of, but a Lightwalker, with no elemental, and the Reaver drove him into the sewers, here I only healed while in the city, but once he drove him into the sewers I struck and killed the Reaver. I had plenty of nice kills, and thats whats frustrating as hell as well, because with this charachter just like many others, I never seem to get those acknowledged whatsoever, while I see others reap reward, after reward. For example, I was reading Tamerons PBF, some Imm gave them experience for killing Arngrum while he was raiding the Empire, now I was Arngurm as well so I can tell you that he was an inch from death from fighting the council alone, healing cursed, and poisoned, but they were rewarded for such a cheesy ass PK, while I get nothing but grief from both Imms and players alike.

As for my expectations with this guy, I tried to make it very clear that he was a hunter, by his role a healer turned paladin because he felt he should do more to battle the darkness before the wounds were given and goodies killed. I can understand Baers point from the post above about why she gave him Hope, because he did wish to lead at some point, would I have chosen Hope for him, never, but that isnt my choice sadly. And sadly most peoples view of the characther is slanted towards the end of his life, when I was totally turned off from playing him, for a multitude of reasons as listed above and below, but at the beginning of his life I think he did alot better with the RP of a goodie paladin. Everyone seems stuck on the fact that I ranted a few times about full loots, as for ranting I will say that yes, I did threaten to return the favor to quite a few poeple, what i dont get is why this is such a big deal, why is this charachter ostracized for only 'threatening' to do, what was done to him consistently by others who I am sure are not being ostracized for their actions.

Did you play Ixilth?

<I had plenty of nice kills, and thats whats frustrating as hell as well, because with this charachter just like many others, I never seem to get those acknowledged whatsoever, while I see others reap reward, after reward. For example, I was reading Tamerons PBF, some Imm gave them experience for killing Arngrum while he was raiding the Empire, now I was Arngurm as well so I can tell you that he was an inch from death from fighting the council alone, healing cursed, and poisoned, but they were rewarded for such a cheesy ass PK, while I get nothing but grief from both Imms and players alike.>

A) I see no death thread for Arngrum...you sure you deleted him? Because the only other reason would be because the character was denied...either way, horrible form.

B) From Tameron's PBF, Important part in CAPS:

Wed Apr 15 20:42:14 2009 by 'An Immortal' at level 51 (252 hrs):
An Immortal added 500 exp for: Arngrum spends a bunch of time raiding Empire; Tameron slides in at the end, smokes him, and THEN FINISHES THE RAID HIMSELF 2 SECONDS LATER. Nice.

C) You have serious issues and several reading comprehension difficulties. I'd suggest playing Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

That if your set was pimp, a full loot becomes more reasonable. As in, your stuff is better than theirs. At that point, it isn't a griefing move in any way (especially if you leave what you are replacing).

I mean, I took someone out the other day and didn't loot because I had the advantage of numbers, but in hindsight, I'm kicking myself for it because I was wearing a sandy cloak whilst they had nice neckgear. If the same happened today, I'd take that neckgear and leave my cloak.

While not a "full loot" by any stretch of the imagination, I still maintain that looting his powerful good_only gear "just because" is sort of a douche move. Less so for a Trib or Outlander since they can turn around and hand it to a good-aligned cabal mate. But for a Scion it's just being punitive. Unless you're going to use them for transform or something. But, even then, I have to think there are other options available to you that don't involve destroying poor dead paladin's gear.

I would like to add, that I would probably have dealt alot better with the full lootings, had it not seemed to always have been after I died fighting three or four to one. I mean if some guy shows up and puts up a fight, against nearly impossible odds, have a little class.

If a paladin puts themselves at risk against me, I won't destroy defiance. If they only ever try to gank me, you can be certain that defiance is going to be destroyed when they die.

I might be forgetting with paladin it was, but I think it was Niheriva that wouldn't fight Victoria without frostshield, and then later, without a voker to quicksand/dispel me whilst she wrathed. That, to me, deserved the saccing of defiance, because in my opinion she avoided what I considered to be an even fight.

Others, whilst I wasn't particularly enamored of them (like the shield of light defiance wielding paladin that talked smack to my orc because I avoided him after taking several beatings) I wouldn't have sacced defiance. And I did come close to landing the kill a couple of times. But that's because he did fight me alone, and he did start to put himself at risk. I'm not going to particular discourage that.

but whoever the paladin was, that was my thinking.

And never a shokai pally. Seriously, you have no idea. Certain imms interact more often than others, even from char to char that same imm might interact more/less with you.

After having played like 7 shokai empowerees, I love the piss out of every other imm I deal with (don't get me wrong, I love Shokai, and he made playing Landren The ####), but nine times out of ten, you could get a 5 minute empowerment interview with the guy and not hear a peep for 400+ hours.

I didn't interact with you, but just from your responses in this thread, the stuff I see upsets you, it makes me wonder why. Looting is always frustrating, but you are a piss easy class to regear. Frustration with your imm? You had full empowerment and 2 virtues.

I think as a general rule dude, if you get ZERO interaction from your imm. If they haven't gone dormant, one of two things has happened. One, your playtimes just aren't overlapping or Two, you are sucking. So, if you can assume no one's playtimes have changed, make the assumption that you are not doing something right and seriously evaluate the way you have been playing and approaching the religion.

I've played A LOT of priests, and I would classify most as above average and successful, and under several different imms and I think you are expecting too much from playing an empowerment class.

There are a number of examples of druids and air-offense shifters that killed orcs the moment they unghost, repeatedly, and got heavily applauded and rewarded for it.

Had a lot of fun with our adventures, especially trying to get the Defiance thing down to science. Nearly there! You were hard to keep track of sometimes, but I only fell a couple of times when I was with you. And those were due to very unforeseen circumstances, not your fault at all. I loved how I had to stay on my toes around you, a good thing! When I seen you send your goodbye over the Fortress I was in battle, under the sea of course, and could only think, "You gotta be kidding?" Don't give up on Baer yet. I knew she would of course be watching you and I tried to guide as best I could. I can understand that after that many hours how you would feel distressed. But, actions speak louder than words. So give it another shot, if you like the IDEA of her religion. Because, Defiance awaits, friend. So do I!

Man really....

You're quite lucky you didn't lose empowerment completely on several occasions. You were quite close to having ME take it completely away or drop it to 25 SEVERAL times. Don't put your deletion due to Baerinika's lack of interaction, because there were a good number of times you were lucky she didn't happen to be on when you were. It's probably lucky for you I didn't history some of your more stellar moments.

PSA from Enlilth...

1.) Vis gods don't mean you should talk smack to them just because they're vis.

2.) Enlilth, the god, doesn't really care who leads his cabal, they're all just front line fodder anyway.

3.) Baer and the fort, contrary to popular opinion as of late, are not of the "snuggle-happy, let's hold hands and spoon" mentality. Please please please quit arranging in fort marriages. Padwei/Una was gay enough thanks.

4.) Combat/courage god does not offer lap dances, that's her alt Ray.. align your roles accordingly.

5.) The guy who plays Enlilth is a dirty dirty dirty bastard with anger issues, and is prone to history you accordingly.

Yeah, this from the Imm who plagues us while we are raiding, grants aura to the lowbie Empires trying to retrieve, all cheating in my eyes, your lucky they even let you log on in my opinion. But once again we come with the blanket statements, and no particulars, what exactly were my more stellar moments. Telling you what a worthless lot the Empire is right now, excluding a few standouts? Or was it you plaguing me while I fought Lornis in the Weald? Just curious as to what exactly would justify me losing empowerment from the almighty Enlilth. Not that I really give two ####s what you think or anything, just curious to see what kind of #### you come up with.

I mean, I don't like the way Baerinika does business, and her fickle personal biases were a very dangerous reason to let her on the staff to begin with, as Enlilth and Marcus have already said.

But you my friend, are just the finest example of how to get rid of chumps who act like chumps. Just don't show up to play, and they get bored and off themselves.

P.S. As much as you're complaining about the Hope virtue, that virtue and Lorn being attached to your hip for anything between the Fort, Eastern, Hamsah and the surrounding areas is probably why no one with a brain showed up solo to your raids, even when you raided alone where other people would flyto, cry or otherwise walk in during your wrath spam because that's all shield paladins are good for, after the second time they tried to defend. Your five Woldrun variants, two of which have deleted now and one of them for the very similar reasons you did, and your semi-ally cabals Battle and Outlander (individually the three problems of which wouldn't be an issue to complain about but cumulatively cause huge game balance issues) do not help matters at all.

All this adds up to a very bored Enlilth so it's no wonder he acted the way he did when you'd constantly raid a cabal that has a ghost town for a hero range right now and a deadbeat dad for an Emperor (after an entire year holding the position and a perceived perma keeping him in power via AIM making him understandably bored to tears to where he only plays three hours every other night).

Man, what I wouldn't give for that time in the last ten years that a second virtue was a rare thing, and even first virtues weren't passed out out of pity. It'd keep clowns like you out of hero range. You deserved every full sac you got and probably should have had a few more just for your behavior alone and this whole thread, not even for whether or not you looted anyone.

Bard Repertoire Clarifications:
http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=23735&mesg_id=23735&page=

And ass hats like you, with your perceived superiority are what has ruined alot of the fun of this game, As for my Perma with Lornkamanas, what a load of ####, I posted 250 hours in the span of three weeks, NO ONE else in Fortress was arond nearly that much in that span of times. Definitely not enough to be considered a perma with Tialan, and oh Daevryn, heres ass clown number #2.

... I've logged about 250 hours myself the past two weeks. ^^ :D

Nepenthe's probably stopped giving two ####s about your perceived isses, so the aside comments aren't anything more than pathetically amusing.

Bard Repertoire Clarifications:
http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=23735&mesg_id=23735&page=

n/t

And I didn't feel underpowered either.

Am I ashamed that I landed 0 pk's because I tried to honor the paladin code? No.

I seem to remember some Imm getting into some trouble for forcing a skeleton to spam flurry on people hunting on Calandaryl, whats the difference between that and this piece of work granting aura to the whole council and plaguing me repeatedly in the middle of fights? Or let me guess, its fine cause it was me?

calm down, angry german gamer kid

Nothing is more hetero than the love between Padwei and I, which you'd realize if you snooped us more. ;-)

You're just jealous that you don't have a storm giant's two-handed sword to make "long, generous strokes" with.

And I'm out again.


:-)

Z.Z.

nt

Get it right jackass, they ***DEMOLISHED*** or ***DEVASTATED*** most times.

I had a blast with this charachter, elf pallie is just an uber tough race/class combo against most things. I guess I just totally suck at empowerment type things, as in 232 hours I spoke with my Imm exactly twice, and the second time, while she did grant me a virtue, it was basically an ass chewing for some things she had heard about from someone, I am guessing Imm comments or notes to her. I lost my cool a few times, no doubt over things that just shouldnt have happened, the deal with Shadrist and that other storm giant probably shouldnt have happened, as it was partly my fault as well, but the thing with Pojoyeh should definitely have been taken up by some higher authority, other than me being critized for losing my cool once again.I will elaborate a little, so maybe people will understand where I am coming from.

I am in the mid thirties in rank, just newly made a Squire, Shadrist, Dargin and I are defending the Fortress from three others, cant remember if they are Scion or Empire, we run them off two or three times, I am steadily spending mana keeping the tara bal at least semi healthy, when Dargin and Shadrist both have to take their leave, fine this happens no problem, the others will just get their item back as I cant take them three on one. As soon as the others rest, Pojoyeh tells me, I am at the Fortress, I will aid you, now he was a hero paladin already, so the only aid he could offer would be healing, whch makes me think GREAT, with a hero healing me, I can probably still at least run these three off if nothing else. Now keep in mind this is only minutes after Shadrist and Dargin have rested, of course the three we were fighting realize now that its only me to defend, and will of course return to reclaim their item quickly before others wake to defend, and Pojoyeh just told me he was at the Fortress. So I camp out in Delar Tol, and sure enough not five minutes goes by before they strike again, I rush in wrathing for all I've got, expecting Pojoyeh to immediately start healing me, about halfway to dead I realize, wait, where the hell is Pojoyeh!?!? But by this point I am two or three wraths ahead of myself, so of course I die to them, come back to a stripped corpse, and guess what, still no sign of Pojoyeh. Now, was I angry at this point, yes, but I was not yet infuriated, so I asked him simply, What happened? His response sent me over the roof, as it was just.....ridiculous. "I was righting some other wrong." His exacts words, no #### and of course I flew off the handle, which was probably not the right thing to do, but well justified in this case if you ask me. Just remember, I was more than willing to just let them regain their item, instead of dying to the three of them and a full necro army of zombies, the ONLY reason I came to defend was because he told me he was at the Fortress, and prepared to heal, so think of me what you will I still feel it should have been taken up by the Marshall or the cabal Imms, but instead it just got me into a bit of trouble for losing my cool.

Anyway, enough whining and bitching I guess, like I said at the beginning I had some fun, killed some people, got no love whatsoever from Baerinika once again, met some great folks at the Fortress, got tired of playing the paladin begging his goddess for attention, then finally getting it only to be told pretty much how ####ty I was doing, so I deleted.

Fortress: Alot of great people here, I just cant seem deal well with all the newbies who expect to be spoonfed because their goodies, or with the fact that when I was trying to show them things, I wasnt doing it nicely enough for the Imm's undoubtedly.

Arrna: Great charachter overall, I STILL think your looting rule is utter #### though, after about the sixth full loot and not being able to return the favor I was about to go freaking nuts.

Lornkanamas: You were great man, always willing to help with whatever, sorry for getting you killed all those times in the deep dark holes of Thera.

Shadrist: Hated to see you get booted, but I knew it was coming, I kept trying to tell you to tone it down a little or you would be kicked out, but hell what do I know. Had a blast running with you, I still chuckle when I think of us raiding the Empire with five Imperials in range and not a one of them showing up.

Zutod: I expect you will make Captain next my frend, a well played stormie and someone else who likes exploring nearly as much as I do, well done.

Empire: What is there to say, other than Ahtieli and Gzurweeg at the moment the rest of you are just crumb bums waiting to scavenge kills you arnt skilled enough to get yourself.

Scion: You guys are rough, as always, though I think it is time for some new leaders and to actually make the cabal active once more, rather than a few Scions leading around the gaggle of applicants.

Zatale: Invokers are tough as nails when played right, and you seem to be doing alright with yours, though the only time you managed to kill me was when you had Artenno come gating in when you were near dead, keep trucking and make sure you spread some of that pain to the Empire.

Lornis: Alligator/Croc combo is just too much for an elf pallie, even with Defiance, two prayer beads, and a helm of brilliance I couldnt hurt you enough to kill you before my mana was spent and I had to head for the hills, well played shifter from what I have seen.

Outlander: I used to love Outlander, played quite a few of them, but alot of the current ones look to me like they swapped out from the Empire doing things just to be petty and spiteful, and I imagine my frustration with you lot ganging me down and taking my gear was pretty apparent by the end, but it wasnt personal, just alot of frustrations coming together at that point for the charachter. Arrnas no looting rule(which I still think is ####), no attention from Baer for around 200 hours, and then getting stripped nearly every time someone managed to kill me, it just got the better of me.

Tribs: Not alot of interaction with you all, except my one lucky kill of Adeglifch, it was the funniest thing ever. I had just killed Dakazhil on the crumbling road, when I yelled out about someone being a lousy thief, I immediatly communed holy word and just as I did, the mummy walked into the room, no army. I blasted the hell out of Messervy with the holy word and he fled immediately, leaving the mummy facing an elf Pallie wielding Defiance, I am assuming Defiance stunned it because it stuck around way longer than it normally did even when it had zombies, and fled just as it hit convulsing, I got lucky and called lightning (thank the gods for bolts of glory) and heard its death cry. Now this is only funny because for those of you who know Messervy, you know he very, very rarely fails a steal, and for it to happen at that exact moment for me to catch the mummy off guard, well it was rather funny to me.

>spiteful, and I imagine my frustration with you lot ganging me
>down and taking my gear was pretty apparent by the end, but it
>wasnt personal, just alot of frustrations coming together at

I didn't gang you. Har har.

No, but you ran and hid when I was hardly scratched, thats the point, without the gang you couldnt best me, you knew it, I knew it, but even when you all did kill me in a gang, you still stripped me bare.

One of the two of you has ganged the other, and one of the two of you solo killed the other.

Hint: It's not the way around you seem to think.

Yet another 'The PBF lays the truth of all things bare' plug.

Oh, also: how much gear did Sulye come back to after you ganged him? I'm pretty sure not everything but two pieces.

The PBF hardly lays the truth bare, as it doesnt list many many factors in this supposed gang. It shows me defeating Sulye on Kiadana I am sure, but what it doesnt show is that she was with two other Outlanders learning there, and they had Quird there as well, so we summoned her out and killed her as she was the only dark one among them. As for any gear taken from her corpse, that was Dargins doing not mine. As for her solo kill of me, I dont remember her ever killing me to be honest, unless she was that ranger that ambushed me near dead as I ran to the Fortress. I fought her many times, and I am sure even she will admit that she went running every one of them. Like I said Daevryn, you dislike me, trust me the feeling is mutual, theres no need for you to troll all my posts.

> Like I said Daevryn, you dislike me, trust me the
>feeling is mutual, theres no need for you to troll all my
>posts.

I still don't know who the #### you are.

Not me personally no, but you are aware of what charachters I have played are you not? You do make it a point to troll every death thread I write with your lame ass comments. Your vaunted PBF system is flawed to hell and back, now that I think of it, hrrrm let me see who else could I have died to solo at hero, could it have been Zatale, but your PBF doesnt show that Artenno gated in when Zatale was writhing on the ground and started healing him while I was stuck in quicksand, flawed, or was it Malahki, once again your PBF doesnt show tht I was attacked after I fled from him, fled once more, teleported then died to his bleeding, which by the way wouldnt have killed me without the attack of the second assailant, flawed. It is what it is, your world where you can say and do what you want, and nine out ten people are going to agree with you in hopes of currying some favor, I have come to live with that, will it shut me up, hardly.

>Not me personally no, but you are aware of what charachters I
>have played are you not?

Nope.

If I'm busting you down on every one of your death threads, it's probably because you manage to bait me with each one of them.

I just want to be friends with the Neppy =(

You're character was rather crappy and walking the line on many things though. And my gosh were you annoying.

Heres one of those nine out of ten Daevryn, I give it to tonight before the other eight pipe up. But I would like this guy to explain comments, if he can, other than blatant Imm ass kissing.

But you constantly whined about gangs, then I'd see you two minutes later in a three on one with Arrna and Shadrist. You were a whiney hoe about gear, for whatever reason thinking you deserved every single piece back when you died if you actually managed to fight a one on one. And you were such a bitch about getting defiance. Like it was your savior or something, yet you still got your ass beat when you had it. And then you'd cry and beg everyone to go get it again.

Overall, there was just nothing that mixed together that made you likable and made me want to avoid tells with you at all cost.

That should be constructive enough.

What a lying sack of #### you are, I can think of only a few times I died that I didnt get fulled, so thinking I deserved every single piece back is just you being the douche you are. As for begging others to get Defiance, I think I asked Humbert twice, and the other times I got it with Lornkanamas, who VOLUNTEERED to help me get it any time he didnt see it in my hands, so #### off, get your nose out of the Imms ass.

Man, you are like an angry teenager, at least I was constructive and honest. I'll let you live in your fantasy world now, bye bye.

Lies, lies, and lies. Instead of just posting some random quip, why not put some meat behind your words. Will you say I wasnt fulled nearly every time I died, cause that would be a lie, will you say I didnt ask Humbert to aid me in getting Defiance only twice, cause that would also be a lie. Will you say that Lornkanamas did not say to me, and I quote "I will aid you in getting Defiance any time you do not hold it," cause that too would be a lie. You dont know what the #### your talking about, your trolling the post trying to kiss ass, now #### off and find something better to do.

You must be one of those worthless wastes of space who call the Fortress home now, one of the ones Tialan wasnt "nice" to after you pulled something totally ####ing stupid, I'm sorry, c'mere and let me give a big hug and make it all better.....douche.

.

Come on now. Graatch has never been this bad. Not even close.

gr

Once

gr

.

nt

>The PBF hardly lays the truth bare, as it doesnt list many
>many factors in this supposed gang. It shows me defeating
>Sulye on Kiadana I am sure, but what it doesnt show is that
>she was with two other Outlanders learning there, and they had
>Quird there as well,

The PBF certainly wouldn't show that, you're right.

The logs, on the other hand, point out that Quird wasn't logged on with 8 real-time hours in either direction of that kill.

Personally, I think summoning the one guy you want out of a group and ganging them down in two rounds is well-executed. In terms of Maran RP it's perfect in that you don't have to fight neutral guys that you may not want to fight. It's smart play and there's nothing wrong with it.

But it is a gang, and it's the only time you ever beat Sulye, which make your initial claims that he always had to gang you and that you're above such things a little ridiculous.

I never said he had to gang me, I said Outlanders ganged me, and they did, quite a few times, but once again you read what you wish and leave out the rest. Ganging I can deal with, its just part of them game, my complaint was more about the full looting than the ganging, and if you cant see that, then....well I dont know what, it should be pretty obvious from my first post that it was the full looting that got frustrating, moreso than the ganging.

I've always found Sulye to be a loner and to fight alone for the most part. Granted, at times with the number of outties running around that is probably pretty tough, but I think Sulye tends to roll alone.

In that when I do get ganked, Sulye is never involved.

Not sure its accurate to say we "fought many times". To my knowledge there were only three:

a) I snared you coming down from Barovia Keep and either killed you with an ambush or one-rounded you. You were wounded already. Don't think I looted anything.

b) You, Dargin and Zutod summoned me off Kiadana and two-rounded me. Someone looted facewear, armwear, and maybe a weapon, but that was it. The rest of my stuff was either felar-only or not that good to begin with.

c) We fought briefly in the glauruk spawning grounds. You seem to have been prepared for the fight, and consequently tore me up. So I teleported away.

I don't recall ever ganging you with other outlanders.

There were a few others to my knowledge, with me showing up and wrathing you and you immediately getting out of dodge, once in the Spire comes to mind, for which I dont blame you at all. And I never said you personally ganged me, nor looted me, only that Outlanders did so. This was just me trying to prove my point, in Daevryn trying to make me look like a fool for saying what I said, when it was indeed the truth, I didnt even know that was you at Barovia, as I was nearly dead, and blinded, just trying to get to the entrance and word out when I got snared, but I know that every time we hav efought that I could see it was you, it was not really a fight, no aspersions on your characther at all, as you have raped my shifter a few times, just not really a good match against the elf pally. But he will look at the vaunted PBF and try to spout off about facts, when there are many extenuating circumstances that we as players know about, that the PBF doesnt track. You soloed me once, that I wasnt even aware of, blinded and all, and yes I died to the ambush there was no fight, I was that wounded, but every other time we fought you either died or ran, that was all I said.

> once in the Spire comes to mind

I didn't even realize you were there for that. I saw Shadrist miss the bash and was out of there as quick as I could run. Think I might have been carrying the Scales at the time.

So, four times.

Arrna: Great charachter overall, I STILL think your looting rule is utter #### though

A cabal leader laid down a rule about loot?

Yep, no matter how many times you get fulled, Fortress isnt allowed to take more than two pieces of gear from a dead enemy.

I didn't gang you, and no...I'm not from empire.

The beads/defiance thing.

You ruined a double xp day ranking group for me. You piss in Hakdu's cornflakes! he pisses in yours! ;)

Didn't know about a no looting rule.

-H

If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, but not by much I am sure, once I hit the hero ranges you and Gzurweeg were the only two people to ever solo kill me, in your case a combination of bearcharge, which is way overpowered, and my aura falling during the permalag granted you a kill, a close kill, since you were weak enough that taking Defiance from my corpse killed you. Gzurweeg and that damn iron whip, was MANGLING me through protection, sanctuary, and stoneskin, add to that lashes of the slave and I didnt stand a chance, as for me ruining your double XP day, thats what I was supposed to do IC, when I find a bunch of people killing storm giants, whereas your charachter had pretty much no reason IC to destroy my prayer beads, whch are harmless to you, Defiance I could understand perhaps, still seemed like a douchy thing to do.

>If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, but not by
>much I am sure, once I hit the hero ranges you and Gzurweeg
>were the only two people to ever solo kill me

Here again the PBF may be illuminating.

I thought you were very skilled and definately not afraid to throw down. It was fun the few times we teamed up to take on Empire/Scion. Great ally to have. Good luck next time around!

I liked that you seemed skilled and eager to fight.

I didn't like that you chose to play a role that was disrespectful and rude to others. It's a viable (if unconventional) choice for the character, but you have to expect that it's going to rub a lot of people the wrong way.

As for the thing with Pojoyeh. I'd never heard about it, but it doesn't really seem like a big enough deal to get upset about, much less take it up with the Imms.

for when someone holds other players up to standards they don't themselves live up to.

You complain about people ganging you, but you sure ganged a lot.

You complain about people looting you, and while I have to admit I didn't see Tialan personally loot anyone a lot . . . if you kill someone with a sizeable gang and they don't come back to a lot of gear, yeah, that's still partially on you. Or at least, it's reasonable for those people to think of you as a looting bastard.

Who did I ever kill with a sizeable gang, I know I ran around alot with Shadrist, but other than raids he was about the only person I ever PK'ed with, and most of the time we were outnumbered. We both know that we dont like each other Daevyrn, and your going to take your shots at every charachter I play regardless, so I will just ignore any further posts from you. And just so you are aware, the complaint wasnt about the ganging, it was about the full looting afterwards, nearly every time, while I am prohibited by a #### rule laid down by Arrna from doing the same to them.

>Who did I ever kill with a sizeable gang, I know I ran around
>alot with Shadrist, but other than raids he was about the only
>person I ever PK'ed with, and most of the time we were
>outnumbered.

Go ahead and buy the PBF. I wouldn't say it's a short list, but that's a matter of opinion.

>We both know that we dont like each other
>Daevyrn, and your going to take your shots at every charachter
>I play regardless, so I will just ignore any further posts
>from you.

I have no idea who you are.

>And just so you are aware, the complaint wasnt about
>the ganging, it was about the full looting afterwards, nearly
>every time, while I am prohibited by a #### rule laid down by
>Arrna from doing the same to them.

Really, because that's not what I got out of your post. You did write that, right? :P

Though its worth to mention that Sulye was in group of three as well.

And as for me ganking is fine. Gank and be ganked, har!

I'm pretty sure the term is "asshat"

Baer is not an Acolyte god and does not believe everyone needs to be huggy kissy snuggy all the time. However, she does believe in the virtues of the light being their own reward, and that means that she expects you to have at least some of said virtues. She believes very firmly in respect, for both your elders and your allies, and even battle respect for your enemies. She is very stiff in demeanor and a bit old fashioned so that just sort of is the way she is. Tialan wasn't a very pleasant character. I did watch you a lot. I didn't like the way you treated the rest of the Fortress or even your enemies very much. And I hope you can understand this, but I get completely turned off from a character if I see them complaining about me. Yes, this is ooc as well as ic. You did it plenty enough IC to make me not really want to hang out with you much. And when I asked you about some of the IC things you'd said, going out of your way to send me a tell saying "I've only ever said negative things OOC about you" made me roll my eyes. In my view, this wasn't true.

That said, I did admire how you mixed it up. You spent just over 100 hours as a squire, which is a little long but I don't think it's unacceptably long, especially considering that you complained about it. As far as how long it took to give you a second virtue, I didn't really feel like you embodied my religion very well and further I think it's a little outrageous to take for granted the fact that you will get a second virtue, and be pissy about it when it wasn't awarded fast enough.

I didn't give you enough attention for your preference and for that I am sorry. Again, it isn't Baer's style to do a lot of hanging out. I am curious who your past characters are since you refer to me ignoring you once again. If you'd let me know, I'd appreciate it.

Good luck on your next.

Firstly, I never, and I mean never complained about not making Maran, as I learned that lesson with my last three fort players with 300+ hours and never making Maran. Did I complain about you not showing me any attention, thats questionable I think even, did I ask others what I might be doing wrong, to have 200+ hours and having only spoken to you once, yes. Did I send up alot of OOC prays wondering what I might be able to do to change the fact that you seemd displeased wth the charachter, yes. Did I ask you specifically what I could do, when you finally dained to speak with me at 230 hours, yes. I think I may have once lost it when speaking to Shadrist IC, which could have almost been considered me going OOC truly, but as far as I am concerned thats the only time I complain IC about your lack of attention. You say you didnt like how I treated others, even my enemies, that I should respect them, and I say those who earned that respect were given it. Arrna, Lornkanamas, Shadrist, Dargin, competent allies, even enemies who didnt strip me bare when they finally managed to gang me down, those who did, yes I pretty much told them to #### off. As for the #### load of newbies who clutter up the Fortress and make life harder on the rest of us, I spent ALOT of time, trying to teach them things, show them things, speak about tactics, was I giggly and happy when one of them did something totally ####ing stupid and got me stripped to my skin once again, probably not.

Not sure what you expect, but your very, very cryptic about what it is you really expect from a follower, never gave me a straight answer anyway, just kept asking me what I thought courage was. But when I devote 200 hours of my life to playing a game, and a charachter devoted to your religion, and you canrt even be bothered to tell me exactly what it is I am doing wrong. You say you watched me alot, and that the charachter didnt embody your religion, what about him didnt? He showed Courage, always, above and beyond the call of duty I would think, thus the many, many gank/full strippings he endured, while waiting on a single kind word from you, a good job, hell anything would have been nice. And now that I think of it, knowing that you were 'watching' me, for all those hours while I say in your Shrine and sent up prayer, after prayer, spoke to other Imms, spoke to the leaders of the cabal, all trying to find out how I could do a better job of being a Baer follower, and you couldnt even step out once and offer some guidance? Smacks of some OOC dislike to me, and knowing the charachters I have played, and some of the flame wars I have had with your husband, I am not sure why that shocks me. As for listing my past Baer followers, Dain, who you completely ignored his whole life, no matter how many times I sat at your shrine waiting while you spoke with that elf paladin you ended up marrying, never once did you bother to speak with him. A Fort bard, I cant remember his name now, but the same thing, a storm pallie from long long ago as well, you empowered him, and then never another interaction. I guess I should realize by now I am just not part of your little clique, I will never be titled, tattooed, or lastnamed at my twenty fifth title like I have seen alot of your followers, and sadly I think this may have been my last attempt at a Baer follower.

One last thing, and this will truly explain why I deleted, from my perspective. I have been playing this elf paladin, devoting hundreds of hours to the characther, several role chapters, countless hours praying, even though it wasnt good enough for you, these are the only things I know to do please a goddess. I get pretty much no attention for 200+ hours, then I get told I am pretty much a ####ty follower, after having prayed and prayed, and prayed, and prayed asking for some advice on how to become a better one. Then I log back in, and I see this little elf warrior, rank 25, I would be willing to bet no more than 30 hours tops, I take a look at him, seems like a newbie, yet lo and behold, he is So and So the Warrior, Initiate of the Jaguar. I just spent two hundred hours and was told I wasnt good enough to get something you just handed to someone else. And then I just realized, how ever you want to couch it, you dislike me the person, and no charachter I make is going to please you.

How good you actually are <<< how good you think you are.

You do okay. There's nothing wrong with that, but you're going to have problems when you think you're the coolest ####er around and you're really not, because you're never going to be as respected or rewarded by anyone as you think you deserve.

I mean, okay, you're a guy who ganged more than he got ganged and killed almost as much as he died, and who tended to take those losses badly and rant at people who killed him that he was going to full loot them. That's not the worst thing, but it's not exactly going to earn you a quest skill either.

See, this is the problem we have Daevryn, cause I KNOW I suck at PK, hell I have said it a thousand times, but I am FAR from the only one who sucks at PK, yet I see others with ####ty PK getting plenty of rewards, while I tend to just get ignored, over, and over, and over.
As for me ganging more than I got ganged, thats ####, like I explained in a previous post your PBF system has some SERIOUS flaws if thats going to be the measure for reward versus ignore. And giving a paladin the Virtue of hope pretty much means he is going to depend on others to keep people from fleeing from battle, just no other way around it, not to mention be called upon in every raiding situation to grant aura, which is just going to make him seem more ganky.

I killed plenty alone, for a paladin that is, which isnt ever going to be a really, really deathful class. Unless you count the ones that are so super Imm buffed that their nearly unbeatable, three Virtues, tattoes, quest skills, yes all those things that actually allow a paladin to be deadly, but I was never going to get, hence the delete.

What I'm trying to say is, humility is the problem I think you need to work on.

You can admit here that you're not an awesome PKer, but upwards in this thread (and IC) you come off like you think you're the toughest guy around. Everyone had to run from me, everyone had to gang me, and there are all these other excuses why people did manage to beat me or why I couldn't kill people.

It's just not endearing, and in most (but not all) cases it's not great RP.

Stepping up your RP would help too. It just didn't feel IC for Tialan for me to rant at people who looted him the way he did. To be fair, you're far from the only player with that problem, either.

Beyond that, maybe you just have to adjust your expectations. From your posts here, it sure sounds like you think that a dude who got a Jaguar title was more favored than you, who got full empowerment and two virtues. I think that's crazy.

A lot of the really rewarded characters live a long time and are really consistently cool.

I ultimately don't have a stake in this.

I'm just trying to help you see how you can change the way you play to get more of what you want in the future. You can take that for what it's worth or ignore it. It's up to you.

My problem with this is (I don't know this character, and I never interacted with him once), Baerinika specifically stated that she watched this character plenty. I'm not sure what that means, but whatever, its irrelevant. She made the decision not to step in and help the character out. That is my problem. Why, please tell me why, do Imms not ever step in and say, "Hey, I think you have potential my young padawan, but you need to focus on this, or make a greater effort towards this." If someone sucks, tell them they suck. Don't just be a deadbeat.

I'm never vocal about these sort of things really. But dude, the staff can keep saying #### like "Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out!" But you guys are going to end up saying it one too many times. We put as much investment into this game as the staff does, albeit, in a different way (that doesn't involve coding). We put in just as many hours making the game "alive." So please, help us to help ourselves, which ultimately helps you.

From my military experience, I saw a lot of immature guys come in. Ripe ages of 18, 19. Not much experience with anything. But you give a guy a chance, you promote them, you encourage them, etc., and they step up to the plate. They assume the responsibility more often than not. They live up to their potential.

It just feels like this game isn't taken for what it's worth sometimes: A Game.

asdf

I have to disagree slightly with this. There is a reason Carrion Fields is unique enough that players return to it after years of being away. This game is about roleplaying, character development and an investment into your character.

What separates it from the competition?

1: Each player must realize the mortality of their characters. WoW/DAOC/MMORPG/Other (Muds) - don't offer these types of concerns which help to deliver the concept of realism.

2: Rewards/Items of Power are actually earned and can be lost. This means you have to stick to the general concept of class, ethos, race and alignment. Why? Rewards can be easily taken away. You should "always" assume that someone is watching you with the intent to punish or reward you.

3: Nothing worthwhile comes from instant gratification. Hell, I can use the simple concept of sex. That 2 minute man ain't going to make a name for himself. Instant gratification is a hollow victory at best. Power (and the discovery of it) should come with a very large investment from every character. Whether this investment is in time, character development or RP is for the immortal staff to judge.

So in short, this is not 'just a game.' This is a much more rewarding experience that is worth every bit of the effort you put in. You don't get advantages through cheat codes. You can't just get up and walk away from it like a console game. The investment is well worth the gain.

For characters like Tialan here, there is a desire for instant gratification with very poor RP decisions.

I fully support Baer in this situation. A player like this shouldn't get a pity or an obligation reward. He should figure out the basic concepts of this mud and learn how to deliver on them. He should also acknowledge the expectations of the immortals (and set reasonable expectations for himself) since they are the ones punishing and rewarding the playerbase.

Anyone smart enough to log into: www.carrionfields.com 9999 <-- should be smart enough to read the helpfiles and understand the basic concepts and consequences of interaction in this mud.

Expecting Her to talk to me, is seeking instant gratification? C'mon Thror read the Posts. I never said I expected a tattot, or a title or any real "reward" just for the Imm I just devoted 230 hours to praying to, writing roles for, to at least SPEAK to me, if I was doing such a ####ty job, she should have told me I was doing a ####ty job, you ever heard of the word guidance? It should have been obvious to hear you all tell it that I was not so much in the know about whats expected of her religion, so maybe a little enlightenment for the guy whos always logged in, always praying, always fighting. If thats instant gratification, or me seeking rewards I didnt gain, you know what, I am pretty sure in some of the staffs eyes that is exactly what it is, which is exactly why I deleted the charachter, and why I have played so few empowerment characthers. If its not one of the staffs little clique, your just not going to get the rewards, been here for ten years, seen it, been involved in it, thats the way it is, you can argue til your blue in the face and still be wrong about it.

Easy tiger. I'm just an observer. I've read the posts and I spent quite a bit of time watching you. In every moment of watching you I came out of the experience feeling a little soiled. You seemed competant but you were a complete ass to people.

Here's the problem: You want some form of acknowledgement from this immortal, yet in her own way, she did acknowledge you. Even when you may not have deserved it. Who inducted you into Maran? Isn't that a form of guidance? Isn't that saying you did 'something' right?

Ever hear the phrase "God works in mysterious ways?" It's a mystery because he doesn't come right down and explain things to you outright. Sometimes you have to figure out that there are blessings around you without His Divine Intervention. Not all of us can be an Iunna, who jumps down, has long sleep-overs with you in your cabal and hits you over the head on eastern road. In fact, some of the immortals prefer to wait and watch - then reward accordingly.

- you can argue til your blue in the face and still be wrong about it.

You can argue or you can take the critcism (however constructive) and try to do a better job next time.

There wont be a next time, if I ever play a class that depends on the Staff of this MUD to make it viable, please shoot me in the face.

You say in your post above the one I'm replying to that you just wanted Baer to talk to you. You weren't looking for extra powers and stuff. You just wanted a talk and maybe a hug.

Which, as you know, has no game mechanical implications.

Then you say this:

>There wont be a next time, if I ever play a class that
>depends on the Staff of this MUD to make it viable, please
>shoot me in the face.

So now it IS about extra powers and stuff.

Which is it?

I never said I didnt want those things, no one rolls a paladin thinking "Damn, I sure hope I dont get Temperance/Retribution, or a Baer follower thinking, "Damn, I sure hope I dont get that cool ass tattoo." My point is this, I realize that Tialan had not yet earned those things, did he want them, yes of coruse he did, just like every other paladin ever rolled wants them, regardless of how many people post here about just "playing the charachter, and not worrying about rewards", thats the reason people play Empowerment charachters, for the extra Imm love that generally comes along with playing them. That said, with Tialan it was not the lack of a Virtue, or tattoo or anythign else that soured him, it was the utter lack of any kind of interaction whatsoever with Baerinika. After reading these posts I can see how he may have come across as a jerk/asshat, between frustrations I lost my cool more than once, it happens. Does this then mean that its alright for Baer to just completely ignore the charachter? Like I said in an eaerlier post if nothing else step out and kick him in the ass and tell him to shape up, just some form of aknowledgement for 250 hours worth of playing, praying, writing role chapters. I will say this, one kind word and he would still be around, one "I see you are trying at least," anything along those lines and I would have continued to play the charachter on into the three or four hundred hour mark, and maybe earned those others things.
You have to realize how frustrating it was from my standpoint, like I said, with a previous charachter I sat at Baers Shrine for well over an hour several times, while she talked and RP'ed with that elven pally she ended up marrying, only to never get the chance to talk or RP with her myself, so I roll another Baer charachter, write the role, the whole nine yards, and I still get to speak with her for perhaps ten minutes out of 230 hours.

You know Baer's got a lot of things going on, right? It's not just you.

Of course I do, but she seems to make time for every other follower I have ever seen, just not mine. C'mon, ten minutes out of 230 hours, thats just ridiculous.

absolutely screams "elitist attitude."

This is what I get from your post: We're playing the game to be judged by the CF staff. -Bzzt! Wrong!

So if someone isn't "good enough" for you Thror, do you just ignore them which basically makes them f**k off?

Nice humility. Why don't you try playing with us instead of at us.

I don't even care about Tialan debacle. I just disagree with your core values of what Carrion Fields is. Because I hate people who think they are better than the rest of everyone else. Unfortunately, I see that attitude in several staff members. And it's a characte flaw of the individual--not the IC character.

I remind you: This is a game.

If you want rewards, empowerment, quest abilities and event immteraction, yes, you are being judged by the staff. Since that is the basis of this entire thread, you sir, are wrong.

- So if someone isn't "good enough" for you Thror, do you just ignore them which basically makes them f**k off?

No, I actually tell them to #### off. I don't hold other immortals to the same standards. It is actually part of his role/religion. Now when I'm wearing the "Immortal hat" that's an entirely different story. Make sense?

- I remind you: This is a game.

This is a different type of game, which requires an entirely different investment of time. You can accept this, or go back to playing pong. Newbie or veteran player needs to understand this so that they don't have some distorted expectations like the OP.

Another thing we disagree on, Tialan was tough as nails, had I actually been given a useful Virtue, Temperance perhaps, or Retribution, instead of Hope, he might even have proven deadly. As for what you see as excuses, those are the true facts of playing a Paladin, who have NO way whatsoever to keep a foe from flee/quaff, unless their one of the aforementioned super buffed by the Imms pallies, of which we have all seen. As for the threats to full loot, yes I admit I made them, I get a little too focused on gear, its a flaw of mine, but so what, if someone is a douche enough to full me, I dont have a right to do the same? As for my expectations on rewards, and the little elf getting titled, yes I would gladly have given back the Virtue of Hope for a title, or even for Baer to have maybe talked to me about what I was doing wrong as far as being a follower went. I am a simple man, so Tialans view of the religion was as simple as I am pretty much, he showed Courage in all things, always, no matter what, he never backed down from a fight he had even a slim chance of winning, this was about all I could do based on Courage alone, and as she never bothered to enlighten me as to any other expecatations, what was I supposed to do? I grew very, very frustrated with not being able to speak with Her, and alot of this bled through into the charachter, I know this, you know this.

As for him thinking he was the toughest guy around, I would have put him up against nearly anyone else, one on one, just like any paladin without Temperance he was pretty much gank meat, but in a one on one fight he could have stood with just about anyone, with a few exceptions of course. Malakhi is feared for his fierceness, I sent him running a couple times as well, Ahtieli has most poeple scared pantsless, I sent her packing and destroyed her entire army a few times, unless she had someone along to lag me, she wasnt that tough, so yes he did think of himself as tough, and he was. Thats alot of our misunderstanding, becausee for you in order to be tough, you have to have that high PK count, which is nearly impossible for a paladin to get alone, but as far as I was concerned, he could best anyone given the right circumstances, he might not kill them, but he could sure make them run and hide, and he did, often.

If you really don't like her so much, why did you even follow her?

A paladin full looting? Where's the redeeming quality in that? Seems like full looting is an ooc decision (instead of IC).

If you aren't good enough, you aren't good enough. What did you do differently?

Play the game for what it is, instead with all these expectations. Let the imms do what they want. Trust me, you'll enjoy it more.

I truly have no problem with her, though its become apparent she does with me, so I have tried once again to play a Baer follower. And failed once again. As for a paladin full looting, you ever heard of something called justice, you know, you get what you deserve, in all the years I have played this game, I think I may have full looted two people, complete douche bags who deserved it, and there aer a few walking around right now who deserve it, and I would gladly have done so if not for that stupid ass rule.

Justice doesn't mean right = might, or for that matter, meet an eye for an eye. At least, I don't think it does as pertaining to paladins in CF and looting.

As for the rule, did you try to worm yourself out of it? I know I would if I had a huge ooc incentive for revenge.

He was Maran, and he followed Arrnas order to the letter, as much as I the player wanted to just sac 1. sac 1. sac 1. over and over I never did once, and thats the beauty of a fantasy world, in Tialans fantasy world, full saccing those who did it to him would have been perfect justice.

I can genuinely assure that it is nothing personal. I didn't have anything against Dain either. You were a quiet, fairly under the radar conjurer who came by once in a while and didn't say much. I didn't get the impression from you that you really wanted a part of my religion and it isn't my nature to push. I did not know who you were and still do not, beyond being passing familiar with Dain and not remembering any particular like or dislike of him. Looking at your history in the graveyard I see you had some kind of meltdown that made me turn you evil. All I'm going to say is...I don't think that one was my fault.

At the end of the day, I would only ask you to please give the immortals the benefit of the doubt and remember we are human too. I sometimes forget that something as simple as a little title or friendly echo can make someone's day. You sent up a lot of decent prays and if I didn't have the time to interact with you I'd usually send an echo that tried to show I was there and watching and you were doing ok. Either way, above all it was not personal.

It annoys me how people seem to think a second virtue should be the default these days. Having played one pally to 200 hours without a virtue (absentee imm) and another with just one, I'd say that even ONE virtue makes you extremely powerful. (Maybe not Hope.)

Yep, definitely not Hope, as this was my one Virtue for 200 hours, and also the reason why it seemed he was ganky, since every other member of the Fortress wanted him along to grant them auras.

Did not know Tialan, or what it is like to follow Baer's religion, but saw the thing about virtues, thought I would put in a comment.

I think Imms get taken for granted, especially by paladins, in terms of expecting virtues and imm love. Paladins are already powerful and no doubt Imms tire of hearing players complaining about XYZ the 3000th wrath spamming elf paladin wielding defiance. Adding in two virtues to that character, or maybe even the rare paladin with three, is almost ridiculous in terms of strength. No matter how you look at it, virtues/titles/tats are nice rewards that do make a paladin stronger, and are fun to get, but they are not necessary to playing the class or for making them viable in most any pk situation. You can't play a paladin expecting to get virtues or anything. Empowerment, yes, but anything beyond that is a bonus, not a right. You play them the same as any other character, and if you get imm lovin, great. If you don't, suck it up and keep rolling.

Perhaps thats how you see it, and I suppose you are right to an extent, I didnt expect to be tattoed, or gain a third virtue, at 230 hours, even though I have seen it happen. But imagine if you spent 200 hours as Thendrell, doing your paladin thing, making Maran, killing big baddies, not just picking the low hanging fruit, and yet Ysaloerye never bothered to even take the time to speak with you. Its easy for a paladin like yourself, who reaped all the rewards of the class to sit back and say that, but I challenge you to take an elf paladin, with only the virtue of hope, and make a it viable in PK. Can you stand toe to toe with most anyone so long as its one on one, yes, can you kill them, probably not, can you last longer than two rounds, maybe three, against any gank, not counting if your getting ganked by people who are strong themselves, no. You were tattoed, three virtued, including Temperance and Retribution if I remember correctly, and I dont say you didnt deserve those things, but try it from the other side before you say to play it that way.

Three virtues were temp fortitude and faith actually.

Thendrell had 511 hours on age death. 1 time ever did Ysal initiate our interactions. And that was because we arranged it via notes and I forgot the time, so she plucked me from the skies and dumped me in the temple. I drove our rp by simply playing the character, and yes, she snooped me and saw me and that drew her out I guess. Even I don't think thendrell deserved all that, but Ysal was nice to him. And uncaballed and following religion's constraints sort of balance out the fact that he was 3 virtued and tat'd.

I've not tried an elf maran paladin with only hope. But saying you can't fight a gank, well, don't fight it then. The problem with rp'ing a paladin is if you stick to it you will get ganged by players that will full loot you when you stand against impossible odds. Paladins are viable in PK if you want to gang others, but I agree, they are break evens or deaths in most fights they do alone.

Sorry to ramble, as your points are valid and understandably frustrating, but I just want to point out that playing a paladin can be fun in any situation, and I think they are a class that really do wonders for everyone's enjoyment of the game, especially for the newer ones that get to see people that know how to rp and learn from them. Paladins are not, in my opinion, a pk-oriented class. They are an rp-driven class. And if you can enjoy that aspect, I would hope you can stick with it despite the frustrations that come with them in terms of evil ganging you and pleasing not always clear imms.

Don't sweat the no love thing. She's a woman. If she's made up her mind that your character doesn't appeal to her or appease her, you get nothing. That's just the way she is. It isn't anything specific to you.

There will be no white flag above my door. - Dido

Dude!

Try not to make sweeping sexist comments against the fairer sex? I have a feeling that if you keep that mindset, you will experience the whole no love thing quite a bit from women. Of course, you shouldn't sweat it, because apparently you are just a dumbass. After reading your post, I have a feeling you will be ignored anyways. No fault of your own, that's just the way you are.

And my opinion of Baerinika has nothing to do with my personal lifestyle. I am happily with a woman who loves me as much as I love her.

But please feel free to sort through the globs of history that back this opinion I have of Baerinika. This isn't the first time she's done something like. And it won't be the last. If she personally does not like you, does not like your attitude, does not like your role, etc. etc., she will ignore you. She plays her character with too much subjectivity, rather than the humility and objectivity a god of light would or should.

And maybe all of this is just an in character thing. But I have a feeling it's not. For some reason, I have this view of Baerinika being very similar to Sandra Bullock's character in the movie "The Proposal."

You pretty much admit that you would have survived had you not spammed too many wraths, that time that Pojoyeh (or whatever the name is) didn't show up.

So you -could- have made a defense against the trio, in his absence.

To me, you should pretty much make an effort at a defense, even if it ultimately proves unsuccessful. The longer you can hold them off, the greater the likelihood of someone logging on who could help you out, or one of them having to log off which may swing odds back in your favour.

I'm not saying you should suicide, but it didn't sound like suicide based on your description of how you died because of overspamming wrath.

d

At rank what, 31 or 32, and bash, bash, bash, bash is hardly a stomp.

That cuts both ways. If bash;bash;bash is "hardly a stomp" then neither is co wrath;co wrath;co wrath.

The comparison is pretty flawed, as wrath is about the only weapon a shield pally has, whereas giant sword/axe spec I think, I know swords not sure what his second weapon was, has many many options for killing someone other than permalagging.

Not

nt

If he's lvl 31 like you said, and bashed you to death. Then he was a sword warrior with no 2nd spec, and used his best tactic to win the fight (which beat your best tactic) Also, you must've overspammed wrath, b/c I highly doubt he could perma lag you at that lvl given shield spec lag reduction, and he had no bash legacy. Also, it was a stupid death for you to eat, since reduce preps are cheap and easy. So just from reading your argument here it looks like you have once again bit off more than you can chew.

I said I was level 31, not him, and reduce preps are only woth a #### if the person trying to bash you isnt reduced as well. Since I carried about twenty or better of them at all times I imagine I was probably reduced for that fight, or him being an Outlander maybe he jumped me from cover when I wasnt reduced, I truly dont remember, but I am pretty sure he was at least seven, maybe eight ranks over me when this PK occurred, and shield paladin bash reduction is very, very unreliable, if it progs, which it very frequently does not, even perfected. As for you highly doubting he can permalag, you fought any weighted down giants lately? As an elf, and them wielding iron swords? He lands three bashes, I get no commands, I am dead, its that simple. Has nothing to do with biting off more than I could chew.

You are not remembering the facts correctly here. I never said I was at the fortress, or that I was going to heal you. I said "I would be there", which I explained later, was not a tell that was meant for you. It was a mistell. I was replying "I would be there" to another person who was hidden because I was going to a place to help that person kill an evil mob. I was replying to another person, who felt he had be wronged by an ex-fortress member, and I was 'righting another wrong' because I did not think you needed the details on what I was doing on behalf of that ex-fortress member.

I explained this mistell to you as best I could without breaking into ooc, and felt apologetic. In fact as I recall you even accepted this explanation that it was a miscommunication, but then go on to question whether I ever defend the fortress in a raid.

I'm surprised you've been carrying this around with you all this while. So now in your death thread you're painting me as someone who doesn't turn up to defend or help his allies, worse, someone who's word is undependable, and that is unfair and untrue.









>I am in the mid thirties in rank, just newly made a Squire,
>Shadrist, Dargin and I are defending the Fortress from three
>others, cant remember if they are Scion or Empire, we run them
>off two or three times, I am steadily spending mana keeping
>the tara bal at least semi healthy, when Dargin and Shadrist
>both have to take their leave, fine this happens no problem,
>the others will just get their item back as I cant take them
>three on one. As soon as the others rest, Pojoyeh tells me, I
>am at the Fortress, I will aid you, now he was a hero paladin
>already, so the only aid he could offer would be healing, whch
>makes me think GREAT, with a hero healing me, I can probably
>still at least run these three off if nothing else. Now keep
>in mind this is only minutes after Shadrist and Dargin have
>rested, of course the three we were fighting realize now that
>its only me to defend, and will of course return to reclaim
>their item quickly before others wake to defend, and Pojoyeh
>just told me he was at the Fortress. So I camp out in Delar
>Tol, and sure enough not five minutes goes by before they
>strike again, I rush in wrathing for all I've got, expecting
>Pojoyeh to immediately start healing me, about halfway to dead
>I realize, wait, where the hell is Pojoyeh!?!? But by this
>point I am two or three wraths ahead of myself, so of course I
>die to them, come back to a stripped corpse, and guess what,
>still no sign of Pojoyeh. Now, was I angry at this point, yes,
>but I was not yet infuriated, so I asked him simply, What
>happened? His response sent me over the roof, as it was
>just.....ridiculous. "I was righting some other wrong." His
>exacts words, no #### and of course I flew off the handle,
>which was probably not the right thing to do, but well
>justified in this case if you ask me. Just remember, I was
>more than willing to just let them regain their item, instead
>of dying to the three of them and a full necro army of
>zombies, the ONLY reason I came to defend was because he told
>me he was at the Fortress, and prepared to heal, so think of
>me what you will I still feel it should have been taken up by
>the Marshall or the cabal Imms, but instead it just got me
>into a bit of trouble for losing my cool.

I watched this character a lot. There were some things I liked and others which were completely rude about the character.

This wasn't in just a sense to your enemies but to your allies also. You made a lot of empty threats which looked like the result and reason of some previous conflicts. I imagine that may be why you've deleted and shown up here.

Good luck with the next. Be a more polite goodie next time!

Very sad to see you go, my friend. It was always a pleasure to see you about and travel with you.

... Your role didn't seem to fit that well with the policys/orders I have for the fortress... Either that or it was ooc (Though didn't feel ooc to me even though I recieved a few complaints.)

Overall I really liked Tialan. And you sure knew what you were doing. Had a bunch of fun with you. I hope you return soon again with something cool.

Good luck with your next.