Fri Nov 7 10:16:32 2008

At 12 o'clock AM, Day of the Bull, 1st of the Month of the Sun
on the Theran calendar Aunkdunell perished, never to return.

Race:	half-drow
Class:	shaman
Level:	51
Alignment:	Evil
Ethos:	Chaotic
Cabal:	OUTLANDER, the Outlanders of Thar-Eris
Age:	126
Hours:	250

I think I grew on you a little bit... but for a short while there me and you were the only two 'reavers on... anyways good luck with next..


oh yeah.. I knew it was you from one thing, and one thing only.. the conifer tree ;)

Aunkdunell was orginally rolled as a PK character. I personally, find the greatest enjoyment in playing characters that are high intensity and Aunkdunell indeed was. He had an inherent hate/distrust/mischevious plan against most all people, and was
never much of a friend to anyone. From PK ranks on, I tried to stop
and get a few kills each time I ranked, or at least several PK's if I had ranked a couple times. His whole persona was that he literally thirsted, like a starved hunger, Had to have blood, the kill of the hunt, the weak being culled. This was a rooted desire of his, and a basic driving force to the persona I envisioned him to be.

Wether it be coercing someone to kill another, him directly killing anything and everything city tied, orderly, travelling with
paladins, duergar, etc. I would pass by Galadon and if I noticed someone in town in the armory or something like that, they became a target as well. They were on of them! Granted, I opened myself up for a very large PK range, and had a bitch of a time ranking with the few PC's I would, don't think for a moment I didn't have groups of 3-4 people on my ass moment to moment at times. It was definately a challenge to play what I saw as one of my peak Self-Proficient characters. A big part that plays into how I develop my RP towards Lyristeons relgion is that I am self-reliant, in control of sparking reaction, and am a consistent presence as far as the aspect my characters bring to the field. Be it evil, anti-something, or plane neutral-vengence, it is usually a great challenge. I think in the past I burn out at least a 100hrs earlier, and I honestly could have gone 200 more I think (bit the bullet on a best buy card and got a new computer today, so dont think your getting any breaks!) but the hardware issues were too much at the time.

Anyways, it's been over a week and after pulling 65hrs last week I'll remember what I can, and would enjoy hearing from anyone. That being said, the Toraks, RobDarkens, Scrimbuls, people that play characters like Burork, don't waste your time trolling my post, and
if you feel the need to kick the dead horse, you have QHCF for that.


I was IC on every level. If I move through an area and I see outsiders, and one of them happens to be an orderly assassin, or thief, or imperial, or duergar, or scion, or tribunal, or gnome nexan that attacked me last week, or goodie, or someone that went OOC and called me Rogue in game, or someone that told me to suck a #### after I killed them... All of these sorts of people were going to then become victims to the hunger of the maw. I brought famine and plague in mass quantities, and when your 20's level defiler in training crosses paths with a disease spreading half-breed dark-elf that is marked by the evil Imp of chaos, you bet your ass that hanging around in that area is not going to be a one-way ticket to the chinese buffet by any means. Some people dealt with it well, some people had and are having, the whinefest of their life.

I've said it before, and I'll say it one more time. Trepidation, area affects like plague, summoning creatures with a divine power I am granted to chaos your group chaos, panic, death, etc., is Entirely within the rules, and roleplay. I was very evil, very chaotic, and very deathful (I mean that in play, not PK count.) that is why I think there was nothing wrong in that. If I were to pull that kind of thing with an Imperial or goodie shaman, that wouldn't fly. Goodie healers heal MOBs groups rank on, goodie outlanders with Bioempathy, Scions with the monolith that causes affects to the entire Area, Centurions, Special Guard xp loss, etc etc, are all facets of the game that can be used in PvP mechanics, that are not limited to PK levels. PK levels are for game balance, note for segregation of RP. Some of you simply cannot deal with that, and to those people, you better roll something tougher then.


Alright, Goodbyes I can get off the top off my head..

Lyristeon, I'll echo on your post below about this character not getting rewarded as much. I got no body part armors, no gifts and stuff. A lot of people think the weapon/title is a reward, but I think since the playerbase went from 3 digits to 2, it merely helps with spicing the who list and giving leaders a nicer pat on the back. I will say the weapon descriptions as it shifted were sick, and I loved it. I know my RP tapered down towards the end a bit, but I attribute that in kind to my lack of quests to the computer issues, all that aside though this was another fabulously fun character that had a lot of ups and downs. I really felt comfortable and in control of the role, and am glad you let the bad men play too.

Enlilth - Dont really know anything about you, but noticed you were the one that gave me lovin for my pray, and its not like I waited months and months praying to no end, but I was trying, and Lyr wasnt around at the moment, and you noticed. Thanks for the pat on the back, that's the kind of thing that really helps developing characters continue to do so.

Iunna = Pretty lame for me to rot the elf healer thats standing in the market with the Provost? Tlingit knew I was about to get another wanted flag and was expecting me to hit him any moment so his guards could jump in. Hitting the healer first (first time I ever remember even seeing them to attack them) with a rot would be unexpected, and would in my mind, take the healer out of play for the duration of healing sleep. Then I could dispel sanc, but, he died the same round I rotted him. Probably the only time I know of rot killing someone. I dont remember the second kill, but for what it's worth, how about getting a little more insight before slighting a pfile. I wasn't mister rogers, but I was entirely in right to, and religously pressed to, take those kinds of kills whenever I could. I'm sure when two offensive shapeshifters are camping at my recall and kill me that way Several times, you make the same kinds of comments.

Outlanders

I tried to be as discconected from most of you as I could, and IC prick and poke for weaknesses in different characters. If I knew of Apps that were using cities, or coins, or travelling with people they shouldn't, I went after them. I would talk to some, attack others outright, or try to stir some cabal politics and involve immortals. I wasn't building a thief guild or anything, but I tried to be active in the cabal as much as I could. For the apps, I hope I made it a fun challenge, and when I let you off easy, had you thinking the Hardest was only to come!

Lierieng in particular stands out to me, because I took an edge to have stronger communes around fellow spheres just because you were a Lyristeon follower too. It worked beautifully too. The only draw back to playing evil outlander though is it just simply doesnt work to work with others. We did when we could though, and It was a blast.

I had a lot of enemies, a lot. So, I think it might be safer to simply reply to those that wish to reply to me. Many of you can rest easy now and watch TV while you rank, or AFK with your special guards in the market, or even walk into the woods without several teleports and a Really big bag of food! heh

On communes, I never really messed with famine too much, but I must say this is a bad ass prayer, and I liked the edge that I took for it as well. I tried to use this as much as possible and regret not working it into my role and my weak attempt at becoming the Hunger of the Maw or something like that. Next time.

-Rogue

I'd like to go on record and say the mass sac'ing/looting is ####.

1. Most corpses I couldn't skin, maybe a bug, but generally
when my PK's died of dispel evil, or demonfire, or my weapon types
I was using, the corpse was unsuitable to skin, and I could then
only loot what I could carry, which wasnt much if I even looted.

2. Looting corpses that were plagued, plagues you too, and me. Even
with cure disease, generally after you land a kill with a shaman
you have little to no mana left, and the timing sucks. I might be
able to get 2-3 items, and would have to run to the cabal to cure
my disease.

Even if I wanted to, I wouldn't be able to loot half as bad as I
am accused of.


Did I do it at all? Of course. You all also know who you are, and
why you got that kind of treatment. I never complained, maybe
frustrated once or twice, but I never complained. If you can't
handle that kind of reaction, then choose wiser your own actions
before involving yourself. Nonetheless, you know who You are, and
I know who is just feeding the fire, so save it.

Just to clear up any confusion, am pretty sure Iunna's comment wasn't about an elf healer with a Tribbie - it was the other good/orderly healer that was on alone of its cabal and had no RP choice but to respond to its outer guardian getting hit and subsequently get rotted to death. Fun and games :P

God forbid an evil attack a goodie cabal to fight a healer. Oh well.

I've tried to stay away from the negative side of your post, You only did one thing that I saw IC that Irked me and I responded to it IC by trying to defend Morkam instead of trash talking or such, It cost me a death, but I kept Morkam alive so that worked out. As far as interactions went we had a lot of fights with no deaths aside from once in the weald I think. I made a conscious effort to play Tlingit as Tlingit would see things against you in regards to looting and such. From our interactions not a lot of the typical rogue complaints showed through, it was just enemy against enemy. You provided me with a lot of excitement in game for a char/position that can get boring at times depending on how active enemies are at the times, so thank you for that, and thank you for staying respectful IC. I was able to pick you out as a player at about level 20 on your char and had to fight myself not to react as such but think I was successful and that made our interactions as chars go a lot better. I habe a charachter request for you though. I'd like to see you pull off a Corralan char that when you delete, everyone goes holy ####, that was rogue? Maybe count your sucess off of charachters saved from being PK'd instead of PK's. A stat you'd have to keep yourself of course. I think nit would do a lot towards silencing your critics. you have a lot of skill as a player but unfortunatly OOC things always seem to spoil it. I do agree with a lot of statements though, the rules say nothing against full loots/full sacs, and most people seem to have forgotten how to pick themselves up from such like they used to, myself included. it used to be normal for a player to die, get fulled, and re equip in under 30 mins with a decent set to go forward with, a good shifter can have a +300 hp set non limited in that time and a warrior can have 35+ damroll easily in that time. Outfit gear helps even more now, making it possible even easier. So while it irks people it's part of the game. I played MMO's for a while and one of the things that irked me about them as a mud player is that there were no real consequences to dieing. just respawn and go back to it. The sum of this is while some things you do may be considered ####ty in todays CF in CF's glory days everyone keeps talking about with thier rose colored glasses they would have been the norm. Good Job on the char overall and we'll see you again, from our IC interactions you did a good job in the role you were in.
Good Luck with your next char.
Tlingit

****To play the devil's advocate. ***
It cant be as bad as people believe it was otherwise your Best Set of equipment would look a lot better than:

Best Set of Equipment
worn on finger an iron ring set with a white moonstone
worn on finger an iron ring set with a white moonstone
worn around neck (Glowing) an unholy symbol of the Spider Goddess
worn around neck (Humming) the obsidian symbol of Talshidirus
worn on head the Horns of the Beast-Lord
worn on face a primitive fertility mask
worn on legs some leggings from the snow worm
worn on feet firewalker boots
worn on hands Gauntlets of Devilry
worn on arms a pair of armguards from the snow worm
worn about body an Eagle Embroidered Silk Robe
worn around waist the belt of life
worn on wrist an aquamarine bracelet
worn on wrist (Glowing) a topaz encrusted bracelet
Kal'Fury, flail of the Hunt
worn as shield a shield from the hide of a snow worm
a gaping maw

Because I cant believe that everyone you killed didnt at least have one or two items that could be better than many of the items you were wearing.

I knew from the get go, your character build with provost guards was never going to be an easy fight for me, and rarely ever was. I felt like fighting you was as futile as fighting a lich, because I just couldnt do anything, or at least enough, before I had to get the hell out of dodge.

Your perk about always returning things is impressive for a tribunal, and even more so to do towards a hardened criminal. I appreciate the extra 20 minutes here and there.


On the looting part, your absolutely right. I rarely looted, and most often couldnt if I wanted to. You have one douchebag that calls me Rogue in game or calls me a #### then refuses to fight, That's the guy/guys I sac'd. Those same guys are crying murder over it, breaking rules in game, and slandering the hell out of active players on the other site, because they're not mature enough to handle a game that is just a tad more intense than contra w/o the code for 99lives. I've really just come to blow them off. They will always bitch, and they will always be around. They also will always keep my prep bag full, because I like to gather Other peoples preps, not my own.

" I'd like to see you pull off a Corralan char that when you delete, everyone goes holy ####, that was rogue? Maybe count your sucess off of charachters saved from being PK'd instead of PK's"

Yeah, right. Um... no. I played a baerinika pally not too long ago and I absolutely detest goodie roleplay and ideology. Not to mention it was an extremely boring and monotone character. Nothing to slight Baerinika by any means, just not my idea of fun.

I mud to let the monsters out, just because I am good at it, doesn't mean I should or will stop. Thanks for the positive feedback though, I appreciate it. I have a feeling we were tribunal cabal mates pre-Tlingit, but I can keep that till your gone.

Good luck

I hate it when you say you only looted those who deserved it. Let me remind you one fight.

I was a gnome shifter known as Aezu who was ranking in the weald. Now you came, we fought and you taunted me a bit (Like go or I will get mad) and I tried to tell you politely that I was with others, we didn't want any trouble...hell you said 'If I wanted you dead, I would have struck you already no?' and then we continued...until you plagued me. So you didn't win points of sympathy with me.

Then, I stayed too long, decided to give it a go since I didn't know you at all...died and got full looted/saced. Ok.

I didn't care much and we went back to rank...and you returned to kill me (But this time I just left, knowing it would be worthless to lose the few of what I held)

I never really interacted with you, never cared about you. But you know it that as Ilbjorga, I would not waste time with you or even bother fighting you because of that, knowing that if I'd die, it would be worthless. So please, stop saying 'I saced those who saced me...or those who deserved it', that's a lie.

You exagerrating and adding your own points. I think you're full of ####, and if you expect me to take you seriously, post a log.


However "'If I wanted you dead, I would have struck you already no?"

That was just my IC way of buying time. I had every intention to kill you from the get go, I just needed more mana, and to get closer to you.

As far as those that "deserve it".. First of all..


"Then, I stayed too long, decided to give it a go since I didn't know you at all...died and got full looted/saced. Ok."

Not only is this untrue, but then you write

"I didn't care much and we went back to rank...and you returned to kill me (But this time I just left, knowing it would be worthless to lose the few of what I held)"


I don't remember who you were entirely, but I can tell you this, if you were like Morkam and just outright told me you will never fight me again because you think that's going to protect you, it wont. If anything that puts you on top of my list of people to kill.


". So please, stop saying 'I saced those who saced me...or those who deserved it', that's a lie."

The only person throwing in his imagination here is you my friend.

ahhhh crap, didn't log it. But then, why would I try to simply #### you? I have nothing to gain really.

as I remember, you said something like 'You stay here? That's insulting me' and you went back at it.

Anyway, I think it would be worthless calling you names though there's no need to lie about it man. I am pretty sure you saced people who were innocent and people who deserved it. If you wish to play an asshole, at least stick to your guns. Everytime I dared to full-loot someone (Which happens rarely), I never whine about it. Usually, if I am about to or do it, I just delete. You can pretty much ask those who fought my chars.

I, too, was having hardware issues where my computer that caused me to lose link for 30-40 seconds every 30 mins or so. You know, something out my control and you decided to grow the balls to kill me when I linkdied and tried to deny being the one.

You should remember this. You were with me and another shifter. We just killed Mueghlu. Got you some gear then proceeded to kill elves. During the course of rest i had that disconnect(out of my control) so you go ahead and smoke a cheap kill and try to rid yourself of any responsability of it.

NT

You didn't make it too hard on me, which I appreciated. I've played cabal leaders in the past and have always tried to give applicants every chance of getting inducted as long as they show some initiative.

You had plenty of reason to not induct me at all, especially since the first couple of times you tried, I didn't have enough wilderness familiarity (damn killing shoppies in Darsylon).

Anyways, I liked your emotes. I liked they way you played Evil. I never saw the A-hole vibe people on QHCF were accusing you of.

Nice char.

I could tell early on you had philosophy down, and have personally gotten screwed on wild time by ranking in wild areas that arent really wild in the past myself, so I sympathised. I had every intention of inducting you as soon as you could be, even if I made it sound like you were burning a fuse you wouldnt be able to relight.

I hope I instilled a sense of Hurry, and developed the compelling notion to "become" more outlander with you. Just trying to make it fun until you could get the powers, then have you think you might lose them at any moment!

Give em hell.

I liked your roleplay. Thought you were a well played out shaman. I don't have much time to play so mostly have been messing around with some of the new shifter forms. That gnome shifter you powerranked with on the double XP weekend (underwater) was mine. Croc and Manta. It was near midnight my time and I was so damn tired but kept plugging away to get through it.

Evil chars should have the characters in game fear them to be near. Summoning mobs to plague or setting fires is fine and encouraged. Wish more evils played that way to be seen as anti-heros of the land. Its like comparing an out of range acolyte healer that gates into lowbie land and starts helping the light or healing mobs that evils are ranking on. No one calls them out for being pricks. They are roleplaying a religion. Your shaman was just that, EVIL.

Though I guess if you had backstabbed me or something I would have a different outlook. I tend to be unforgiving bastard when that happens. :P

I like when you like my characters. Ever since I was in scion with you as Ustil? Hyena Tiger, I've noticed your characters a lot more and I feel like its a big compliment to come from you.

I'm glad you enjoyed Aunkdunell. You hit it right on the head too. I envisioned Aunkdunell to be the laughing embodiment of evil intention. We did do some serious ranking though, damn.

See you on the next.

Our interactions were in every which way very disappointing. I'm glad for the times I got you. Shouting 'hide ####wench' at the giant wasn't something I'd like to see when I play cf.

I see we're not gonna be friends. I saw little of you, and rarely got you alone. I attacked you, a neutral outlander, and the imperial cabal guardian once, and you slept me up. I got away and think my comp had me lagged up or something, and you caught me in the holy grove. Anytime after that you either attacked me while I was fighting another villager, or would only fight to land the sleep. If you didnt get the sleep off, the fight would break up until you could. I dunno, I just didnt get the villager vibe. Not to say you obviously arent doing well with it, but I think because of my activity of proving my strength by killing villagers as a evil shaman, you were bitter about it. I'd have liked to see more Gerylanst style than Necro style fighting. Ah well, just different.

I fail to see how trying to sleep you as a bard is a bad tactic. It's the best way to get you fiended and killed. Also there is no way to kill someone solo with bard without fiend unless your opponent is dumb enough to stay for too long.
It was the first time I think when my way actively crossed with your and as result all I think is it would be better for the whole CF if you new computer would blow up once you try to load the skull.
GLTYN, roll fortie healer

Because that's not what I said.

A villager bard playing that tactic, a leader at that, doesnt feel very villager to me. Not when that is the only tactic they seem to want to use. It's not bad by any means, just not very villager like. That's why I didn't point to you in particular, and was responding to her.

Gotta love those ESL's!

one of the best fights i remember was you summoning me into a place i did not know I believe you got me and morkram both in that damn canopy, talken about a farked cat! good fights! hope to see you around!!!
Les

Dude I spent time getting deadfalls to both exits, and both exits also had hidden exits to get out. It was one of my best traps, and rarely got anyone in it again. If either of you only realised you had to walk Down, THEN run north, lol.

We had some good ones. Our first one, bad luck of the draw on your part. Afk in town, tsk tsk. I would attribute a third of my PK deaths to my hardware issues locking up the client and myself appearing Afk at times as well, so I can relate and sympathise.

Healthy tip, if a shaman appears to be baiting you, he is.
I actually think there was an outtie ranger in the area that
one fight too, he just didn't get to us in time. More glory for me!

You seemed to be extremely upset and often complained when I used anyone else to kill someone. Even though you also claim this.

Hehe, problem was that you ALWAYS called for another and rarely fought when there were noone to call. At least that's what I saw.

NT

You wanted proof of multi-killing and driving people from the game...and here's the proof with his kill list.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=31&topic_id=22612#22621

Out of 42 kills of just the first page, I lost count after 15 that were multi-kills. The first set was three kills of the same guy at level 12. It's pretty obvious that shamans are very easy to kill with early on and yet he consistently mutli-killed people. How many you want to bet deleted? I know of at least two just from his pre-sanctuary kills and I personally know of someone he drove away from CF that came back to the game during double experience weekend because of his out of range antics on lowbies with plague. This data also doesn't include full-sacs and full-loots which is pretty much a Rogue staple.

The log that got deleted of him corpse sacrificing and killing of a purely AFK person is this gem if you feel like seeing the log where I flat out told him that Lesiknilt was linkdead and he continued to kill him (and actually sped up his tactics when I told him).

Oct 22, 2008|Lv 51|Voralian City|Lesikinilt vs 1: Aunkdunell (100%,KB)

Bring on the kettle and pot comments, the "toughen up" retorts, and the staple comebacks of why his "RP" explained his obnoxious and game ruining behavior. Here's your bible verse for the lesson on Rogue, Nepenthe.

"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1 : 9

If you take a look at the list your are claiming, look at how many of them actually happened in the same day. Now...just because you kill someone today, doesn't mean you aren't going to kill them tomorrow. Look closer, some of the people who died in those skirmishes weren't the only people involved in the fight either. Also, take a look at how many times he was killed by the same person in the same day. It's easy to make an argument when you are only looking for one thing. Try looking at everything before you prove my point.

Since he can play at the change over. Those 3 kills could be within an hour of each other and just be around midnight. I didn't get completely specific because you can't without everything including looting, sacrificing or other factors.

It still doesn't merit the out of range tactics that drive people from the game or linkdead killing. You can be evil and not a douche.

Aunk died multiple deaths to these people on these days -

Mueghlu 6, 6, 8, 10, 13, 16, 16
Kelgar 14, 14
Thymas 17, 17 (both were orc village)
Shalsad 14, 14, 14, 15


Aunk killed these people multiple times on these days -

Bleegulza 16, 16
Borgak 27, 27
Ciaadyl 11, 11, 12
Deshren 27, 28, 28
Eelo 13, 13
Erylaina 14, 14, 14
Grakac 14, 14
Inaveri 4, 4
Julaed 1, 1, 1, 25
Kelgar 14, 14, 14
Lesikinilt 22, 24, 24
Morkam 12, 12, 18, 18, 18, 18, 24, 24, 24, 28
Mueghlu 4, 6, 6, 10, 16, 16
Nakrasus 15, 15
Neajsa 1, 1
Oreis 1, 1, 3
Randiz 20, 20, 21
Rynhgar 4, 4, 4
Saerali 31, 31
Soldur 1, 1
Tsugua 26, 26
Uwfou 7, 7
Yrlym 8, 8, 21


So he died 2x in one day 4 times and 3x in one day once. Knowing Rogue, too, I would wager that all of those are because he would not relent and kept coming back.

He killed 2x in one day 20 times, 3x in one day 5 times, and 4x in one day once. Almost a tenth of all his pks were against one poor sob.

Me, personally - I have never seen multikilling like this before.

Combine those numbers with his penchant for full-sacrificing and you have a very detestable player. Being a nuisance to out-of-range characters is only part of the issue. So really, Daevryn, do you honstly think the 'mob' was so far offbase on this one? I don't.

>So really,
>Daevryn, do you honstly think the 'mob' was so far offbase on
>this one? I don't.

Eh. The real surprise to me is that we're haggling so far over a matter of degree. To me, the conversation feels something like this:

Me: On a scale of one to ten, Aunkdunell was a 6 (let's say) on the #### scale.

Angry mob: Aunkdunell was a EIGHTY THOUSAND on the scale of one to ten!

Ain't nobody saying he wasn't a #### and didn't do things that piss people off. I just feel like it was blown out of proportion.

Which recent characters would you put higher than Aunkdunell on this scale?

He's by far the worst relatively long-lived hero character that I remember seeing in a while. Have you seen worse, from someone as visible?

ntnt

One thing you're missing is that some of us were seeking out those fights too.

Looking this over is pretty cool, I'm glad you took the time
to look it over. In all honesty here though, How do you expect
someone that is fiercly RP/PK'ing the ####-ton out of his enemies
rather than a long list of single kills? I was going after my PK range's list of enemies when I PK'd. Rarely I had a group to get with, so most of my sessions were 2-3 hours of some PK before bed.

You can bet your ass I am going to work with who I have to work with, and like you say, not relent. The streets will flow with
the blood of the non-believers, and all that jive.

So, again thanks for posting the numbers crunched, because I think it actually elevates the fact that I actually role play and, pk, on a level that is possssibly too serious sometimes, but still completely viable, and entirely enjoyable after an 11hr shift and
a big fatty.

Killing someone twice in one day isn't going to sway my thoughts at all. Especially if the person is diametrically opposite in align and cabal. I loved watching the Mueghlu/Aundunell fights. You never knew who was going to come out on top with those. And you make another point. Knowing Rogue, he would not relent and keep coming back. How many of those Tribunals died in the Spire? At the Tree? Heck, they are Tribunals, kill them until they go away. That's the cabal dynamic. Sure, there is overboard. Sitting next to them until they unghost and killing them again is lame. Nobody is claiming he did that. He just killed the same person? Heck, if I am a paladin, wouldn't I be expected to keep killing the lich until he was no more? It's Carrion Fields. Not Super Mario Bros.

the majority of those pks were against noobs out ranking. I guess that impresses you. It doesn't impress me.

Let's assume that a newbie is playing a character that is the arch-enemy of a vet.

Almost any vet couldn't kill them once, full sac, and then kill them again and again without fail until they log off, whilst they try to regear/replace potions etc..

Take it a step further, and assume said vet is an air shifter with abs. The newbie hasn't got a hope in hell. Is multi-killing them still right?

Pretty sure we're all agreed that it isn't. What we're basically arguing over is where the line should be drawn. I don't think you're arguing that there shouldn't be a line drawn, but I'm not sure your post makes that clear.

Most people posting seem to be of the opinion that the line needs to be a bit more protective of the victim.

Here's how I tend to operate:

If I kill someone and it's just a total beat down, then I get a chance to take whatever I want but take nothing, then that person drops to the bottom of my list. That is to say, I'm not going to actively hunt that person if there are other enemies on line. Though, if I happen to chance by him again, then I'll try to kill him again.

If I kill someone in a really close fight, then I'm less likely to avoid them than the person in the example above, whom I totally smoked.

If I kill someone and take a significant amount of their gear, presumably because I can use it, then they drop to the bottom of the list.

If I kill someone and full-sac them, then it's probably because I really, really detest that character. In that case, they probably retain their position at the top of my list, and are due for another full-sac next time I kill them.

There's maybe...two characters in the last year who I would give that treatment, and both of them were/are played by the same player.

...I typically half-ass the PK "attempt" if I run into the guy again. Like, instead of throwing lagging moves in, I'll try something ridiculous. If they won't run for whatever reason, I'll usually toss out some #### talking mid-fight, like, "If yer wantin' t'live, ye better get yer arse runnin', whelp!" Also, if they run from me I won't chase or I'll half-ass it again. I mean, this ideology cost me a lot of PK's when I was playing, but I felt okay with myself at the end of the day.

Even the n00bs who taunted or annoyed the #### out of me (Yuri, por ejemplo), I would avoid lagging tactics on so that they would have a chance to escape.

Now if they start putting me at risk, that's when I ratchet up the effort.


Something about this thread:
All that being said, yeah, the playerbase has become progressively less tolerant, as a whole, of full-looting/saccing. However, I don't think that has anything to do with just pure "bitchery." The game has become harder and harder, tighter and tighter, and getting back on your feet has never felt so difficult (I know I know...there is more mid-level gear in more areas, the outfit command, yadda ####in yadda blah blah blah). Who wants to lose all their #### when it's going to take so long to get it all back? Death should, of course, carry consequences. But, I personally think CF went from hardcore to ####core, and it didn't need to. I think that if death weren't AS painful in this game, it would promote more risk taking, which equates to FUN and EXCITEMENT. That's just my .02 yen, and I know it's dismissed out of hand anyway. Not like I care though.

Sure. But, there will always be extenuating circumstances. Raids and retrievals. Enemies from opposing cabals. I am not the kind of player who continuously kills the same person over and over unless they keep asking for it. But, I have done it because they do. I do not see killing someone twice in one day, as multi-killing. To me, a multi-killer is someone who sits around and waits for you to unghost just to do it again and again. Killing a guy at 8 PM, then killing him again at 9 PM doesn't really bother me. Killing a guy a 8:00, 8:30, 9:00 and 10:00 is an issue. Unless said guy is part of the extenuating circumstances.

I pretty much agree with this, Isildur's and Mekantos posts for my way of looking at it.

I had a feeling it was you. I liked the character though and I didn't feel like it was Rogue I was dealing with, it was just a vibe.

#### the haters, nice work. Sorry your hardware dictated the deletion.

I don't know if you'd remember me, because at least according to the logs I've seen you do this kind of thing all the time, but I'd like at least a little insight to a specific incident.

I, was an evil chaotic ranger. I don't believe I had any (grey aura) stuff on, but I might be wrong there. In fact, I was planning on apping to outlander and thus needing to talk to you as nightreaver for an interview. However, while I was ranking on the elves in the past with one other fellow (also evil, I believe chaotic, certainly not orderly anyway) a non-outlander-hunted race (arial) and definately not affiliated with tribunal in any way shape or form. You came up to us, and without a word, threat, warning, etc, started summoning more elves to us, and plagueing the ones we were fighting.
No word of explaination, no declaration of holy anger from your god, and as far as I could tell abolutely no reason to be doing this to us other than wanting to grief lowbies.

You can imagine that after that I was hesitant to *want* to join outlander if that was the kind of thing the *nightreaver* was doing, and even more hesitant to want to talk to YOU after having you do that to my character.

I'm usually the guy who shouts "Hey, don't condemn him! You don't know his RP, maybe only HE is allowed to kill elves!" But in this situation my character and I as the player could not see any explaination for your actions, nor would you offer one up. This left me with few options, this character was created to join outlander and now the nightreaver comes and ####s with me.

How should I of roleplayed this? I couldn't justify my evil vengeful dude just forgetting this incident and trying to suck up to Aunk anyway, and I also couldn't justify as a *player* trying to level to hero to try to kill the guy who could get me into the cabal I rolled this character to join in the first place.

Though I wouldn't say this incident was the soul reason I lost interest in this character, it definately was a contributing factor.
So I'd just like a little explaination to try to find any actual reason you did this, and want to let you know your behavior *IS* in fact helping to drive what little playerbase we still have away from this game.

>I don't know if you'd remember me, because at least according
>to the logs I've seen you do this kind of thing all the time,
>but I'd like at least a little insight to a specific
>incident.
>
>I, was an evil chaotic ranger. I don't believe I had any (grey
>aura) stuff on, but I might be wrong there. In fact, I was
>planning on apping to outlander and thus needing to talk to
>you as nightreaver for an interview. However, while I was
>ranking on the elves in the past with one other fellow (also
>evil, I believe chaotic, certainly not orderly anyway) a
>non-outlander-hunted race (arial) and definately not
>affiliated with tribunal in any way shape or form. You came up
>to us, and without a word, threat, warning, etc, started
>summoning more elves to us, and plagueing the ones we were
>fighting.
>No word of explaination, no declaration of holy anger from
>your god, and as far as I could tell abolutely no reason to be
>doing this to us other than wanting to grief lowbies.

The enemies of the Nightreaver side of Outlander are many. They don't really have any allies. Tribunal isn't the only enemy. Empire, Scion and Fortress are definitely going to be your enemies. Since Nexus is going to attack you when the balance is shifted, an evil Outlander isn't going to forgive them and will probably attack them even when they would be an ally. Ragers are full of dwarves and duergar, so they become enemies. Not all of them are, but, by then, an evil Outlander may start attacking them on sight. Heralds live in a civilized establishment that caters to folks from civilization. They even think of the Harbinger and Sunwarden branches of Outlander as "future food". They use them to advance, protect the fetish etc. So, who are their allies? Basically any evil outcast from society who may or may not be another evil Outlander.

>
>You can imagine that after that I was hesitant to *want* to
>join outlander if that was the kind of thing the *nightreaver*
>was doing, and even more hesitant to want to talk to YOU after
>having you do that to my character.
>
> I'm usually the guy who shouts "Hey, don't condemn him! You
>don't know his RP, maybe only HE is allowed to kill elves!"
>But in this situation my character and I as the player could
>not see any explaination for your actions, nor would you offer
>one up. This left me with few options, this character was
>created to join outlander and now the nightreaver comes and
>####s with me.
>
>How should I of roleplayed this? I couldn't justify my evil
>vengeful dude just forgetting this incident and trying to suck
>up to Aunk anyway, and I also couldn't justify as a *player*
>trying to level to hero to try to kill the guy who could get
>me into the cabal I rolled this character to join in the first
>place.

This isn't empire. You don't forget and suck it up. Aunkdunell inducted evil folks that were right for the cabal. If you are playing a subservient evil trying to impress a Nightreaver, all you are going to do is piss him off. At least that's what I would expect my Nightreaver to do.

>
>Though I wouldn't say this incident was the soul reason I lost
>interest in this character, it definately was a contributing
>factor.
>So I'd just like a little explaination to try to find any
>actual reason you did this, and want to let you know your
>behavior *IS* in fact helping to drive what little playerbase
>we still have away from this game.

Meh. The numbers don't really support the above statement. Numbers aren't what they were 10 years ago. We all know it. But, I see the daily numbers hitting the 60's during peak hours all the time. People get older, find other things to do and move on. That is the largest factor of lower numbers in the playerbase.

Anything a player doesn't like, they point to and shout - see, this is driving players away.

It's a shame too, because there are things the implementors can do to slow the decline, draw back old players, and attract new ones.

Don't you see that your the only person who's replied to this thread of the opinion that rogues lowbie-tormenting sheningans drive people away.


What does this asshole do thats so great as to deserve your protection vs the newbie commenting above, or for that matter the 20 or so other posts from players saying damn rogue this could have been a cooler char if you hadn't been a total ####bag to newbies every-chance that was provided.


This #### IS driving people away, I almost feel like someone needs to follow your next mort around and be a total #### to you with no RP response. Then I really hope that when you finally get pissed off and pray that this sort of crap is ruining your CF experience some immortal comes down as 'an immortal' and vehmently defends the guy being a douchebag too you. I think that would put things into perspective.

an excellent pot calling the kettle black response to this, but it involves a current character of yours that I will not out.

What Aunkdunell did to that guy sure does sound like a #### move and shouldn't really be encouraged -- but he's also sure not the only #### around, and he's at less hypocritical about it.

Aunkdunell specifically targetted this group of lowbies, without any obvious RP reason to. In fact, Aunkdunell targetted the ONLY people that he would ever consider an ally, according to yourself.

I mean, if it was an isolated incident, I could see ignoring it. But it simply wasn't. I had a very similar experience with Aunkdunell showing up, summoning mobs, throwing out a plague and making life hell for no apparent reason. And there wasn't a word said, even when I tried to initiate some semblance of RP from him.

I think ultimately, every character should strive to be a POSITIVE influence on the game. You can be evil, an still be a fun character to interact with. I'll point to Khanial or Lezra on that, since they were my some of my recent favorites. They were undeniably evil characters, but they were still fun. They contributed to the game, played their role, and didn't make people miserable.

Aunkdunell made the game less fun for a lot more players than he entertained (judging on my own interactions with 3 characters, and the overwhelming public outcry). And you rewarded him for it.

So did you not see he actions he was doing that everyone else hated, or did you just not care?

Check some ex-nightreaver pbfs. You will find that many of them have several Outlander kills. These aren't usually duels. The main Cabal power that evil outties have, after chameleon, is the license to kill whom ever they want, when ever they want. It is liberating.

Would you often find yourself trying to cause mobdeaths on out of range lowbies, who were applying for your cabal?

Just curious.

No, but I would visciously and suddenly attack cabal mates on occasion without provocation, and then be a jerk afterwards. Generally if you have time to mess with lowbies you could be doing actual pks, or gathering preps, or rping. If I saw some lowbie pallies though, yeah I would try to get them killed, though I would probably do it by calling in a lowbie evil Outtie, or an app to step on their throats.

If there is a single character in the game who has license to be an utter prick, it is the Nightreaver. He just needs to be able to back his ways up with force, which it sounds like Rogue did.

No one is complaining about him being a prick, per se. It's the WAY in which he chose to act like a prick.

Basically, he was being a prick to PLAYERS rather than CHARACTERS. As you mentioned, if he had time to be picking on lowbies (who he literally had ZERO reason to want to kill, apart from being a prick), then he had time to go after people who would actually matter to the Nightreaver. Like, you know, people that were NOT his allies.

But instead he (apparently) made a habit out of going after defenseless lowbies. While you could argue that it's within his RP to do so, it wasn't a requirement, it was an OOC choice by the player. And he could have just as easily NOT chosen to.

You will see that he was attacking his enemies and doing quite well. His pk ratio is outstanding. He was regularly ganked. Most of the time he was doing some of the things that others are complaining about had more to do with raids and defenses. Yes, he occasionally did it to others. As for the guy above who asked why, maybe it was a test to see how he would react. If he reacted properly, maybe he would have gotten in when he applied.

Just because some people scream louder, it doesn't make them right. It just makes them loud.

I'm not saying Aunkdunell was a crappy player. Rogue is good at CF. No one is denying that. But being good at PK doesn't make you a positive influence on the game. And I'm not saying this because I'm bitter about losing to Aunkdunell. I'm pretty sure I never did (I did beat him once, with Jaisel).

But I did personally witness Aunkdunell being a #### to lowbies who had nothing at all to do with them. I was one of them, in a group at like lvl 15 trying to rank up, and getting mobs summoned and plagued for us. That doesn't further anyone's roleplay. That doesn't entertain anyone. That just pisses off the players behind the characters.

I witnessed similar situations from a third person perspective (potential groupmates/allies getting skinned/full-sacced, etc). IC, I never personally had a positive interaction with him, and never even heard of one (IC or OOC).

And yes, you can get positive vibes from IC enemies. That is what makes the game fun. When you have quality enemies that you hate IC, but respect OOC. Aunkdunell will never have that respect, because from what I personally witnessed and what I've heard from others he seemed to intentionally try to grief players rather than entertain them.

You can say I'm just one of the mob that's screaming louder, but then you're clearly in denial. Sometimes, when everyone is screaming about something, there's a reason for it. You shouldn't dismiss the mob's opinion merely because they're the mob. Every once in a while, the mob is right.

I agree that he was a jerk. I never disagreed with it. I even posted that I thought he was. But, part of this game allows you to get even. And that's the one thing that everybody seems to be missing. Sure, he killed 130 or so players. He also ate over 70 some odd deaths from players. And because of his reputation, he was treated worse than he treated other people. Yes, it's true. He knew that when he died and came back, the chances were huge he was coming back to nothing. And when he did, guess how he responded? He cracked a smile and got ready for the next battle.

Do I think if we had a game where everyone acted this way it would have a positive affect? Not with most of our playerbase as it is, no. It might attract a different crowd of players though. Who knows? But, there once was a norm where if you died, you were lucky if you got anything back. When you die, expect to be naked. That's the easiest way to get over your gear. When you die, the gear is no longer yours. It goes to the victor. They don't have to live you a leaf to cover yourself with. Some might call that action griefing. I call it gear distribution and have no problems with it at all.

Some people say summoning mobs out of pk range and plaguing them is griefing. But, it's okay to do it in a cabal defense. I disagree. That's a matter of opinion.

The one thing that everybody is missing is this. Aunkdunell didn't cheat. He didn't out anybody on the forums. He didn't complain. He just played the game and caused a lot of controversy. The sad part was that it went ooc to nth degree. That is against the rules. And instead of the staff showing sympathy to those who thought he acted like a jerk, those same players were the ones who went ooc about it, broke the rules and forced us to deal with it from a cheater standpoint. When all the players had to do was get together and kill him until he wasn't around anymore. He played it like RL and it annoyed you. What would you do in RL if this were the case?

>I agree that he was a jerk. I never disagreed with it. I
>even posted that I thought he was. But, part of this game
>allows you to get even. And that's the one thing that
>everybody seems to be missing. Sure, he killed 130 or so
>players. He also ate over 70 some odd deaths from players.
>And because of his reputation, he was treated worse than he
>treated other people. Yes, it's true. He knew that when he
>died and came back, the chances were huge he was coming back
>to nothing. And when he did, guess how he responded? He
>cracked a smile and got ready for the next battle.

There's no 'getting even' in this case. Killing him is not getting even. Even saccing his gear afterward is probably not getting even. I'm pretty sure someone brought this up in the other (locked) thread, so I won't go into it.

>Do I think if we had a game where everyone acted this way it
>would have a positive affect? Not with most of our playerbase
>as it is, no. It might attract a different crowd of players
>though. Who knows? But, there once was a norm where if you
>died, you were lucky if you got anything back. When you die,
>expect to be naked. That's the easiest way to get over your
>gear. When you die, the gear is no longer yours. It goes to
>the victor. They don't have to live you a leaf to cover
>yourself with. Some might call that action griefing. I call
>it gear distribution and have no problems with it at all.

I'm sorry that we're not hardcore enough for you anymore.

Really though, mass saccing of gear is hardly 'gear distribution'. In fact, who is more libel to go and collect that very same gear that is now 'in'? The person who just died! Gasp. So you've got it completely backwards. The gear is -less- likely to change hands when you sac it rather than loot it. Or were you thinking people are complaining because he looted their things and put them to use? Cause they weren't.


>Some people say summoning mobs out of pk range and plaguing
>them is griefing. But, it's okay to do it in a cabal defense.
> I disagree. That's a matter of opinion.

See, you've taken the most important part of the entire controversy and dedicated only a couple sentences to it - out of all this banter. Obviously the playerbase is concerned about this behavior, even if you are not. This is what we want to hear though: the IMMs opinions on that sort of thing. Not...


>The one thing that everybody is missing is this. Aunkdunell
>didn't cheat. He didn't out anybody on the forums. He didn't
>complain. He just played the game and caused a lot of
>controversy. The sad part was that it went ooc to nth degree.
> That is against the rules. And instead of the staff showing
>sympathy to those who thought he acted like a jerk, those same
>players were the ones who went ooc about it, broke the rules
>and forced us to deal with it from a cheater standpoint. When
>all the players had to do was get together and kill him until
>he wasn't around anymore. He played it like RL and it annoyed
>you. What would you do in RL if this were the case?

..your pathetic justification of his behavior based on 'you guys are worse cause you took it OOC'. Can we at least attempt to be constructive here?

>>I agree that he was a jerk. I never disagreed with it. I
>>even posted that I thought he was. But, part of this game
>>allows you to get even. And that's the one thing that
>>everybody seems to be missing. Sure, he killed 130 or so
>>players. He also ate over 70 some odd deaths from players.
>>And because of his reputation, he was treated worse than he
>>treated other people. Yes, it's true. He knew that when he
>>died and came back, the chances were huge he was coming back
>>to nothing. And when he did, guess how he responded? He
>>cracked a smile and got ready for the next battle.
>
>There's no 'getting even' in this case. Killing him is not
>getting even. Even saccing his gear afterward is probably not
>getting even. I'm pretty sure someone brought this up in the
>other (locked) thread, so I won't go into it.

The only real getting even in this case is killing him and saccing him back. I don't know what else you would expect to do here. It's really that simple.
>
>>Do I think if we had a game where everyone acted this way it
>>would have a positive affect? Not with most of our
>playerbase
>>as it is, no. It might attract a different crowd of players
>>though. Who knows? But, there once was a norm where if you
>>died, you were lucky if you got anything back. When you
>die,
>>expect to be naked. That's the easiest way to get over your
>>gear. When you die, the gear is no longer yours. It goes
>to
>>the victor. They don't have to live you a leaf to cover
>>yourself with. Some might call that action griefing. I
>call
>>it gear distribution and have no problems with it at all.
>
>I'm sorry that we're not hardcore enough for you anymore.
>
>Really though, mass saccing of gear is hardly 'gear
>distribution'. In fact, who is more libel to go and collect
>that very same gear that is now 'in'? The person who just
>died! Gasp. So you've got it completely backwards. The gear
>is -less- likely to change hands when you sac it rather than
>loot it. Or were you thinking people are complaining because
>he looted their things and put them to use? Cause they
>weren't.

To you it may not be gear distribution. To me it is. And if the same person who dies goes to get that gear back, so be it. He isn't going to be around to bother me for awhile.
I have said it before and I will continue to say it. I see no problem with saccing gear. None. It is what it is. If you die, it isn't your gear anymore anyway.

>
>
>>Some people say summoning mobs out of pk range and plaguing
>>them is griefing. But, it's okay to do it in a cabal
>defense.
>> I disagree. That's a matter of opinion.
>
>See, you've taken the most important part of the entire
>controversy and dedicated only a couple sentences to it - out
>of all this banter. Obviously the playerbase is concerned
>about this behavior, even if you are not. This is what we
>want to hear though: the IMMs opinions on that sort of thing.
> Not...

My opinion is that I see nothing illegal about summoning mobs out of range. I could see one instance where I don't think it should happen. But, if that person can be killed by another, it's not illegal.

>
>
>>The one thing that everybody is missing is this. Aunkdunell
>>didn't cheat. He didn't out anybody on the forums. He
>didn't
>>complain. He just played the game and caused a lot of
>>controversy. The sad part was that it went ooc to nth
>degree.
>> That is against the rules. And instead of the staff
>showing
>>sympathy to those who thought he acted like a jerk, those
>same
>>players were the ones who went ooc about it, broke the rules
>>and forced us to deal with it from a cheater standpoint.
>When
>>all the players had to do was get together and kill him
>until
>>he wasn't around anymore. He played it like RL and it
>annoyed
>>you. What would you do in RL if this were the case?
>
>..your pathetic justification of his behavior based on 'you
>guys are worse cause you took it OOC'. Can we at least
>attempt to be constructive here?

It isn't a justification of anything. It's a fact. If you do something against the rules, you are going to be treated harshly. Even if you think it isn't fair because the other guy was a jerk.

No one is arguing that what Aunkdunell did is against the rules. Please quit trying to make that point. We realize it, and we dont care.

The question is whether what Aunkdunell did is something that should be REWARDED. By your own admission, you rewarded Aunkdunell with more than the VAST majority of characters ever get rewarded.

When you intentonally cause mob deaths on lowbies, you are only hurting CF and making other PLAYERS miserable. That isn't the kind of behavior that should be rewarded.
When you habitually full-sac gear, you are only making other PLAYERS miserable and forcing them to either quit playing CF or spend an hour or two regearing.

That isn't good for the game. Yet you always tend to reward it.

Again, no one cares what is and isn't against the rules. No one is saying that Rogue should be banned forever from CF. We're saying that the ####ty, annoying behavior that defined Aunkdunell should not be encouraged.

If you aren't seeing basic rewards like that for your leader type characters, you need to look at yourself. That is extremely basic leader type rewarding. MOST other leaders get much more than that.

But I didn't look at any of it as getting it "for being leader". I looked at it as general rewards for the character doing well. And honestly, it's ####ing laughable that you try to backhand my own characters (which seemed pretty well recieved from both Imms and players alike) while trying to hide from your own decisions with regards to Aunkdunell. But all this is besides the point anyways.

Being a leader in itself is recognition and encouragement. Making Aunkdunell the Nightreaver told Rogue and the entire playerbase that what he was doing was not only acceptable but encouraged.

It isn't like you were hamstrung because Aunkdunell was leader. Aren't you the person responsible for MAKING Aunkdunell the leader?

It wasn't a backhanded remark about your characters. I don't know who your characters were. I supposed I could l look it up, but, I don't feel like it. I can honestly say that most leaders have gotten way more than he ever got.

I have no regrets about making him the leader.

Instead of implying that you had no choice but to give him those rewards BECAUSE he was a leader, admit that he was a leader and got those rewards because you made the decision.

You made the decision to encourage Aunkdunell's actions, and to send a message to the entire playerbase that it wasn't only acceptable to grief other players, but it was a GOOD THING.



And to save you the effort, my leader char which I referred was Llondolis (Maran Captain) from a few months back.

I just looked at Llondolis. Your imm gave you a virtue for your two major empowerments. I gave Aunk 1k exp for each. Which would you prefer?

You got two edges. Aunk got one.

You became a leader and he became a leader.

Your hours were pretty close 278-250.

Your pk record was 19-40, his was 131-74.

Tell me how he was rewarded and you got your things because you were a leader?

Too lazy to log on as my name. The point of the argument is not the REWARD, but the underlying reason behind the reward in the scope of how the character contributes to the overall game. Llondolis was a positive influence - Auk seems to have been a negative influence and people constantly bitched about. And yet, he was given a commanding influence by getting leadered, tattooed, and it seems to be not even nudged that he was being a complete ass to some, get that, many people.

Ok....GO!

People who interacted with my character, allies and enemies alike, had pretty much nothing negative to say.

I look at my rewards (which I include being made Leader as one) as recognition and encouragement for playing the game the way I played it.

I expect Aunkdunell looked at his rewards the same, as recognition and encouragement for HIS behavior.

The difference? Aunkdunell's behavior prevented other players from having fun. He was not a fun person to have as an enemy. From what I've heard, he wasn't even a fun person to have as an ally.

Let me ask you a question. Would you rather play the game with people that had the mindset of Llondolis, or the mindset of Aunkdunell? I don't mean the role, but the sportsmanship and concern for the fun OTHER people were having.

It depends on what I am playing. If I am playing evil prick character, I am going to want to rp with Aunk more. Because he's the challenge. I am the underdog guy, not the bandwagon guy. He may have been an ally or an enemy, but, in either case, he's the challenge. If I want to be one of the many who are nice to each other, I am going to want to rp with you more.

Your cabal imms liked you for whatever reason they wanted. That's their choice. I only occasionally give rewards to cabals that have a strong imm presence and a lot of players in the cabal. During your time, Fortress was heavy with hero level players. The one that really stood out to me was Mizfara. Mizfara got a legacy from me. Not that I wouldn't have given out more, but, as you can clearly see Baerinika and Corrlaan don't need me helping Fortress players.

I tend to help out the cabals that don't have a presence or Outlanders. Tribunal before Marcatis, Scion before and after Eshval now. But, my leaders aren't being loaded up with rewards any differently than any other cabal.

As for your last question...I think a character who shakes things up every once in awhile and keeps it IC is good for the game. The same people who complained about Cabdru are the same people who complained about Aunkdunell. He took the religion to an extreme. Get others to show emotions. He did it in a way that wasn't expected. Everybody wound up hating him and he thrived on it. If everyone played that same type of character, it wouldn't be unique. Yes, he was an ass. No, I am not interested in seeing it repeated. But, it was an original twist on an extremely active religion and cabal. The worst part about it wasn't what he did though. In my opinion. It was the ooc rants that came from it. 74 times he died for being the ass. It should have been 174 times. Instead, the other 100 deaths came from posts and that's the real shame here.

Aunkdunell didn't get other characters to show emotion. He got other PLAYERS to show emotion.

He wasn't roleplaying your religion as the character Aunkdunell, as much as he was LIVIG your religion as the player Rogue. He was applying the principles of your religion to players, rather than characters. Again, it wasn't the CHARACTERS Aunkdunell was making miserable, it wasn't the CHARACTERS that Aunkdunell was inconvenincing and annoying, it was the PLAYERS. That is an important difference that you seem intent on ignoring.

Beyond that, I don't have much more to say to you. Aunkdunell was a negative influence on the game. How many people who interacted with him are defending him here? There's a reason for that.


And for the record, I didn't like he OOCness of everyones hatred of him in game either. And if that was the topic at hand, I'd be agreeing with you. Unfortunately, it isn't.

>When you intentonally cause mob deaths on lowbies, you are
>only hurting CF and making other PLAYERS miserable. That isn't
>the kind of behavior that should be rewarded.

I don't think it necessarily was rewarded. I think our disconnect is this:

I feel like you think that if a character summons and plagues mobs to try to exert some influence on out-of-range characters at some point, then that's all the character can be judged on anymore. Any reward for the character is a glorification or sign of approval of that in some way.

Conversely, I feel like we're saying that the character's life was bigger than that and it's possible to reward him for the things he did right without endorsing the things he did wrong.

As a separate note, I don't really have a problem inherently with the use of summon to achieve a character's goals. If you're getting XP and I'm summoning stuff to you to make it harder, you've got a lot of options, not the least of which is: You can go/do something else. Some people have said they got this out of Aunkdunell and he didn't otherwise interact with them; that, I'm not a fan of.

I guess it comes to whether the good outweighs the bad, or vice versa. And considering virtually no one has anything positive to say about the character, I think it's clear which is true.

Again, maybe I'm wrong. And maybe the people complaining about what happened are just the vocal minority. But considering nearly every other character that deletes gets at least SOME positive responses, and he doesn't..

>I guess it comes to whether the good outweighs the bad, or
>vice versa. And considering virtually no one has anything
>positive to say about the character, I think it's clear which
>is true.
>
>Again, maybe I'm wrong. And maybe the people complaining about
>what happened are just the vocal minority. But considering
>nearly every other character that deletes gets at least SOME
>positive responses, and he doesn't..


Because there are at least 6 people in this thread with positive things to say. I don't think it's "clear" at all that the good outweighed the bad.

> I don't think it's "clear" at all
>that the good outweighed the bad.
>

Or the bad outweighed the good. You know what I mean.

It's sickening to see this much whining over non-issues. ####ing pussies.

If I sac Rogue, that's not a big issue to him. If he sacs me, it is.

If his pleasure from carrying out a full sac relative to receiving one is positive, and mine is negative, than just returning the favour leaves me with a net bad experience and him with a net good one.

Unfortunately, I think more people feel my way than his. That's before you even consider that it is damn hard to get revenge on certain characters if you can't lag them, can't see them, and they can cure most stuff whilst fly away. I can't remember Rogue playing a class without good survivability, whether it be via chamo or outright tanking/prep-ability.

He still died 74 times. He didn't hide from his enemies. He was in their faces all the time. And much of the saccing was more about lowbies looting. But, that isn't always plain to see.

Not sure it works from a realism point of view, but has anyone considered making it so that looted corpses can be examined and upon being examined have visible clues as to who took stuff?

That's a coding issue and it sounds more like a neat Tribunal power.

The players that this has most effect on (newbies) are the ones least likely to be able to get even.

So getting even isn't an option.

Rogue definitely did his killing solo. That much I admire. That's one of the lowest gank ratios I've seen in a pbf for some time.

It was late at night, not a lot of hero range players on. I'm helping Borom and a paladin level and Aunk rolls up and dies. He never once broke character in any of the times I saw him die. I can't speak about any tells, but I'm sure he received a fair share of OOC rants. Again, this is just one time, but as Lyristeon mentioned he usually just laughed/shrugged and went out to get more gear and came back to try to win next time.

<984hp(100%) 970mv <8 AM> civilized waxing> Borom says to Aunkdunell 'Short on civilizations t'subjugate, ah imagine.' <984hp(100%) 970mv <8 AM> civilized waxing> Aunkdunell reels with a dirty, high-pitched laugh. <984hp(100%) 970mv <8 AM> civilized waxing> Aunkdunell calls for divine transportation! Aunkdunell disappears.

This is what I typically saw when he died. He passed it out with the same attitude he took it. I don't watch everyone 24/7. But, this was typical him when I was watching. And I watched him a lot.

Since all of his chars are utter pricks.

See the problem?

The problem isn't Aunkdunell the character. That character is well role-played to a point. The problem is that Rogue plays that character with every character of his. Gnome shifter in Trib. Druid in Outlander. Ranger in Outlander. They are all the same. And Lyristeon keeps rewarding him, which makes him think that what he is doing is okay.

But it's not. Because Rogue, at the end, seems to be not rping at all. Because if all his characters are the same, then he's roleplaying himself.

His PBF is up. The list of rewards he got from me: Aunkdunell rewards - 3500 non-role exp, tattoo and pyromaniac edge. That's all he got from me. I have given more to non-outlanders and non-followers. You can add leader to that list as well.

Even one or two of those rewards on most other characters would be doing pretty good. But all of that on this character only encourages copycat performance of the same actions.

I personally think Imms should encourage sportsman-like play and people who actually try to make the game more fun, and discourage people who go out of their way to make others miserable. Rewards are encouragement.

I mean, surely you can't argue that it's best if the playerbase is happy and entertained, right?

I can assure you, based on other leaders, that isn't a lot of rewarding. If you want me to dig them up, I can, but, what you saw was basic standard issue for a leader.

nt

A giddy Emperor picking daisies talking about peace for the land.... or how about the nightreaver who throws crumpled paper at tribunals while giving them an angry look and saying they are very very bad for destroying nature.....


He may be playing *prick* characters... however it is the play style he enjoys. CF is after all a game. You play the char or chars you feel like playing, he plays his, i play mine, and the world of CF revolves with time. From the looks of all the posts i have observed.... People are just being whiny because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Sure he summoned a mob to plague and kill lowbies.... get over it.. it happened. 60 people on at the peaks? thats an improvement from what i remember seeing.... 20 people on around me.. if i was lucky 40.. but rarely to that...

If you really are getting this worked up in the world of CF, I suggest you take a step out of cf and into the real world for a day or two and just relax.. it is after all just a game.

I would think as Serious "RPers" you all seem to be, you would take his type of character as a challenge and beat him down. There are so many of you "angry mobs" that surly one man can not last against the armies of his enemies. He comes out of no where and kills you... learn from it, perhaps next time you will set the trap on him, perhaps you would quaff/run.

Since when did CF become a Communism? Spread the wealth and fun around for everyone. The beautiful thing about an imagination is you can make your own wealth and fun, if obstacles get in your way, attempt to overcome them.

He did RP in a sense from what i have been reading. He RPed fear and hatred with all his enemies. He made the lands unsafe for the civilized. He took an evil leaders position to the sense of what it is... evil.....chaotic..... Do you want him to politely bow and curtsey after he kills you? Not only that is it not an outlanders job to be a "mad man" of the wild? If he were to just give you all your items back that is a bit orderly.... the chaos of that extreme as it be, he got rid of the items that were so desperately clung to.

I for one tend to play a certain class every time i have a char..... that is how i like to play... He plays the prick chars... where as if you look at world history.. it exists.. His Nightreaver here will just go down in cf history as another "Super villain" Like Ravon, Or so many other nameless ones out there.


And if you like playing those Very orderly good chars.. then Rogues chars should be perfect for your orderly good chars... someone to fight.. an arch/enemy.

I never died to Rogue's char, nor had any bad experiences at his hands with this char, at any level.

However, the argument about certain kinds of behaviour driving people away isn't one made only by those that have suffered it. Personally I don't have a problem with some of what people are complaining about. e.g. I don't have a problem with people messing with out of pk people, as long as it only creates an inconvenience/challenge rather than a certain pk. I mean, if someone summons/plagues a mob, I'll just walk away, and stop using autogold on plagued mobs I'm fighting. If a healer heals a mob, again, I'll either walk away or I'll just use it as tanking practice. etc.

Full sac, I don't agree with in general. Regearing is tough for a newbie. It's all very well to say that they can take it as an incentive to learn, but cf is already hard to learn when you are competing against people with years of experience, and having to regear on top is, in my opinion, quite likely to drive you away. Rogue has stated that he didn't really full sac all that much, but the argument can still be had either way (although maybe a separate thread would be a good idea).

When I've left cf for a bit, about half the time it is because I've been disgusted by being full sacced after being killed whilst link-dead by a group of 4 scions (and people miss Arolin and his buddies?), who then took advantage of buggy nightwalkers to kill me again and full sac me again.

I've probably only played one character that got equal to, or more than that level reward in aggregate, that being Victoria (who did very nicely reward-wise).

However, I rarely begrudge rewards given out elsewhere. Only examples I can think of are a fortress paladin that wouldn't fight me without voker shields or a gang, and griefers (in my eyes).

If you compare the pbf's, I think you can see what the impact on the playerbase is. The fortress paladin char I didn't like still got good comments. Victoria still got good comments. Rogue chars tend to get angry comments. Call them maw-moments or what have you, but the actual players get upset by it when you start to full sac.

The irony is I actually -completely-!!! agree with him summoning and plaguing mobs out of pk. But the full sac after? That's just choosing to ruin someone's day.

Your imm exp was nearly 9k for non-role stuff. You got more 2k hits than is normal. But, Victoria was just an all-around kickass character. Granted you would have gotten more edges if you didn't get so much exp to make up for it. But, you did get an edge as well. The thing is, you deleted shortly after 400 hours were the real gifts are given. Just imagine what you might have gotten had you stuck it out.

The thing is, you deleted shortly after 400 hours were the real gifts are given. Just imagine what you might have gotten had you stuck it out.


--What exactly does that mean? I've had a few chars with 200 more than that and saw little, if anything!--

If you get fewer rewards than what Aunkdunell got, you pretty much suck.

For character's that rock, like Victoria did, longevity is a real bonus when you want to do something for them. Mind you, you are more apt to get that extra attention from me if you are from a cabal that doesn't have a lot of watching over.

I am not saying that CraftedD didn't have a rocking character, but, I can only speak on a character by character basis when it comes to this.

You are better than that.

I could link to all the posts where he claims his way of playing is right.

You know the posts, the whole 'If what I was doing was wrong, then why did I get tat'd, why have I had leaders, etc. etc. etc.'.

You may not think you're rewarding him, but you aren't the problem here, contrary to what some of the mob is saying. The problem is Rogue's consistant playing of assbags which make spotting him absurdly easy and interacting with the character about as fun as a cheese grater #### rub.

Keep pushing him to roll characters that, um, actually aren't his archtype.

That's the solution. And if he fails in that (which, knowing Rogue's issues, he probably will) then we can all agree on the solution.

Tell ya what, if it's that big of a deal, start a thread on the proper forums, rather than your whining here.

But thank you for putting me on ignore once you realized your ever-gay rot;flee tactics weren't going to kill me.

I ignored you, because you were annoying, and crying like a
baby. That's what the ignore command is for, annoying gits like
you that only want to spam my screen with how tough you are and
teleporting inbetween tells to keep your distance. Ignore is GREAT,
because annoying little children like yourself that expect my life story because I just famined you, or expect me to justify every action I do while I am trying to type out Commune Wither @target.

If you're on ignore, that means I don't want to hear you, because I don't like you. Don't get mad, just grow up, and have fun.

Rot/flee doesnt kill anyone. If you die to it, your about to con die anyways, or need to rethink your item knowledge.

Rot stops hp and mv regen, makes you more vuln to other sups, and in some people, causes panic, changing the fight from hit and run, to seek and destroy.

It is a wonderful opener, and even more so for fights that are going to take a while to wittle down. But, I know you knew that, you just wanted a reason to say Gay outloud without incriminating yourself.

It does take the weight off your chest to say it doesn't it?

Gay.

Maybe one day you can get over your lack of confidence and self-awareness and can go by the local jail and let your parents know the truth. Maybe one day, maybe not.

Nowhere in your rambling monologue did you ever come close to making an ounce of sense. We are now all stupider for having listened to you. May god have mercy on your soul.

I love that line.

No. You raided the Spire. I logged on in the middle of the raid. You fled out, I prepped. You then came back, landed the rot on me, and fled into the city after I made you gush in the two rounds you stayed. You then proceded to disappear into ?Silverwood? the Weald? after I flew away from the Spire to grab two or three pieces of + con gear.

I asked if that was it, and I didn't get a response (figured you were doing other ####). I then asked if you were anything more than an annoyance. You sent me a pithy tell and then slapped the ignore on me. I don't understand where the sour grapes from my half was...I was expecting some badass RP from the Nightreaver, not a 'My panties are hurt because I didn't roll over you and you treated me like I treat everyone else...I need to put you on ignore until I figure out something witty to say'.

I thought you were somebody else based on your smartass remark from earlier. Silly me. I don't really remember what part your talking about, It likely was just one of those moments my computer started getting all ####ty on me, and god forbid I drop link so I'd could either camo and ride it out, or eat another death to it.

This happened to me a lot, and I just had to get out of dodge. Don't want someone following me and getting that inanimate response and me waking to a nice suprise on the 15sec reconnect lag either, ya know? I used ignore to mask that, a lot. I couldn't scroll up in my client to lines I missed, or it took me a long time of lag and zmud locking up momentarily to do so. I would try to say or hear what was to be said or whatever, and just get to a safe spot asap.

Ignore isn't neccessarily like looting, as a spite you do to someone, for most people, most of the time. But removing someone the ability to track you with "keep" "reply" selectively, does have it's advantages. Especially when a lot of people think you have no one else to talk to while your chasing/hiding.

Sorry you missed out, I'll try an spread the love more equally on the next, now that I got a shiny new emachine, go best buy! lol

.

Ignore was not made so you could purposely shut out roleplaying whenever you want. It's not an option to let you get in last words, or prevent people making queries. If you don't want to say anything to them - SIMPLY DONT SEND THEM A TELL.

You were abusing Ignore. It's design was to stop people spamming/going off track. Remember when you used to use camo/noreply? People can now use ignore to coutner that. You've basically replaced that tactic with the ignore command instead.

Well done. You've become a true Jack ass.

Well, first off, sorry bro, I have no recollection of your character.

I will say though that if you haven't sent a note to Outlander, but have it in your role, I still can't see that. Several people
would approach me and just expect me to drop wtf I'm doing and chit
chat because they think they're ready to now, and I haven't even seen so much as a note or recommendation about them. Not to say I didnt give audience to Some people like that, but it was case by case basis. Regardless, I had no way of knowing you were outlander.

The only thing I can think of though, given your recollection is accurate, is that you must have been with an assassin, or thief, or
character I had something against. Looted me, attacked outlanders, who knows. Likely was a reason, I didn't just go area to area.. well I did, but I didn't do it blindly when I did do that kind of stuff. There was likely a factor your missing. On that note, when I come bringing the wrath, so to speak, I'm not going to prelude my assault by breaking down my goals in life and why you've got my attention if it's a pass and go thing. To some that I would stick around with for a while, I would talk to. To a particular group that was getting blatantly OOC about it, I made sure one of them died at least.


Thinking about it though, if I were you, I would have killed the groupmate. Here's this mean ass Nightreaver and I'm between a rock and a hard place... well if its just me and my groupmate, it must be my groupmate, Im the strongest!! You likely would have gotten mileage with me at that point. That's just in thought though, I apologize, I just don't recall this character, though.

I took the lasher edge specifically for you, although the one time in the past when I hit a spinebreak on you then a trample and whomp and you were convulsing pretty much made me think about how easy it was to kill you if you couldn't get off a wither from the get go. I enjoyed our fights, I f'ing hate wither though that thing is nasty it's tough being a mamlauk and getting hit with a -25str maledict and gear to keep wearing a 30plus pound weapon. I never got full sacced or looted too much by you, so I never saw that side of you. I'm sure I'll see you in the fields but hey Orcs can be truely evil, and you can butcher sac 1. !!!! haha

Alzinghul the Chieftain of Orcs

Hope our fights were enjoyable, even though you ended up on the wrong side of them.

Just using a work computer to post my reason, since my other post was deleted. I can't use the computer from home anymore as I've got
some serious hardware issues that began around my mid 30's. It's to the point now it takes five to ten minutes just to get the start bar
to load and usually locks up anyways.

The short of it is that I had a freaking blast from the get go. I wanted to do a lot more things with this character but when my playability started to go, I just couldnt do it anymore. I didn't
want to end it this way but I simply need to buy a new computer when
I have the extra money.

I'll get some goodbyes together, I've got a lot.


A lot of people that seem to really grief with my character.. Just a short note, I rarely sac'd anyone, and to the people that I did, it was for either going OOC, refusing to EVER fight me, or because you had done it to me already in some fashion. Rarely did I even
loot more than a few items. Honestly, I couldnt even if I wanted to,
I always caught plague looting my corpese even with Divine Contagion. I think its broken or the helpfile needs to be more specific. On a side note the edge is awesome and plague spreads like a melted butter.

Aunkdunell was indeed a very, very bad man. I have really come to enjoy playing truly evil characters. CF is a rough place, because there are shaman like Aunkdunell that are bloodthirsty for nearly everything they came into contact with. Thank GOD for double XP weekend, that really saved my ass. I went with pretty much one group
from 41 to hero in about three hours tops.


Good byes to come, when I have more time to post.

Since I constantly find myself playing scores of teen to tween chars I always got excited when I saw you on. Thanks to you I had multiple lowbies decked out in hero gear. I'd just follow you around wait for you to land a kill and then skin a corpse to commence with the sac 1. spam.. while I spammed get all! So thank you for that.


PS I also want to thank you for ####ing with multiple people in my range. Beating down people you plagued out of pk was the best!

I know that with master of decay necro edge I would never catch my scourge of mobs that were alive, but if I looted them once they died, I'd probably get it. I reported this at least twice but I'm not convinced its ever been fixed. Even died to it after a pk once.

So I ended up having to take cryptborn edge as well just to avoid that. (Cryptborn worked very nicely on a drow. I noticed it helped a lot against poisoning mobs too, that I never really made a save against as a drow until taking this edge, at which point I'd have a decent chance of killing poisonous mobs before getting poisoned.)

But from the very little I saw of your char, I liked it. Our big fights at lvl 20-25 and then that last fight in Hamsah. (Damn I almost hit the screen as I didn't land the final lash. heh)

Though I'd be really excited to see you play something like a goodie goodie fluffy acolyte or herald. :D That sure would be a challenge for you I think.

Good luck to you Rogue!

Aww I even had a few good things to say. Hehe.
Silly me for posting late I don't remember what
I said anymore.

You were probably one of the first that I considered the next tier, as to difficulty in fighting. I couldn't stand to ya too long, and you could almost enough prayers most times. We mixed it up a lot when we were young, but in the higher ranks Imperials are hard to single out. And I tried a paladin a few chars back, got the the 40's, and was bored out of my ass the whole time.

I only play lizzy when I play rampage too, go figure.

Or go for a Maran healer! (NOT that easy. heh)