Thu Jul 17 15:21:30 2008

At 12 o'clock PM, Day of the Moon, 28th of the Month of the Dragon
on the Theran calendar Svigmaar perished, never to return.

Race:	svirfnebli
Class:	ranger
Level:	37
Alignment:	Neutral
Ethos:	Chaotic
Cabal:	None, None
Age:	136
Hours:	64

lkajsdf

Shield cleave and Serpent Strike

If not both then one of them would be nice.

Also, As a cavern dweller, it would have been usefull if they could drag up a draft or something to make Zephyr work. Perhaps an acception for caverndwellers alone? An edge for it maybe?


For those of you who are wondering. I was Chaotic neutral. Lawless and self-centered. Not evil or good, but if you lipped off to him, why not get your head split? He didn't have to answer to anyone and if you didn't like him he didn't care. If you were a friend one minute and not the next that was a pretty big sin for him.

So basically your role was "I'm a douche bag, hi." I'm assuming you most likely also gave people reasons to mouth off to you then, since people tend to be pretty cool if you're not being a douche to them in the first place.

Random Player pretty much got it right. This one came to the Refuge, was set a very, very simple task, much simpler than the ones I normally give since he seemed to be relatively new. He cursed me, and proceeded to greet me as Provost everytime he awoke thereafter. Hate to say it Svig, but not sorry to see you go.

I felt like I completley wasted my time with you. And as a couple time Outlander I got a wierd vibe off you from the very beginning. I'm not big on Flyto/Murder gnomes to begin with.

I didn't feel like you understood anything I was saying during the interview and then when you told me to go around and ask for recomendations I just said #### it. You just had the interview, why not make a descision then and there? Why should I give a rats ass about other Outlanders? I'm a free spirit right? (My take)


Anyway I started calling you provost after that because your RP seemed very orderly and it didn't sit well with how I felt an Outlander would go about things. What ever, your call. You obviously got the possition because of the hard time you put in.

No hard feelings, but I didn't like Ix with this or any of my others. Sometimes people don't get along.

One thing, kind of a turning point in the interview for me. When you asked what "My RAGE" was and I told you the undead. And you said yeah but you gotta fight other things too. >>>NO SHEEEIT SHERLOCK<<<

I told you that I didn't have rage for anything accept the undead but that I felt compelled to fight others (Paraphrased) and you jumped my #### for splitting hairs.

Rage is a very specific emotion, man. I told you specificly what enraged Svigmaar.

Anyway, small thing, already had me flipping off the monitor.

I won't miss your garble either.

You got pissed because I asked you some specific questions about the Refuge, and the Ancients, and all I couldt get from you was something you were trying to RP about the "Grotto". RP is fine well and good, but Ix was then, and still is all about Thar Eris and the Ancients. Your task was not to get recommendations, but to speak with others of the Refuge and actually 'learn' something, but being the obvious smart-ass know it all that you are, I imagine that simple thing was just out of your league. As for wether you liked Ix or not, I could give a rats ass less, my RP is orderly? That must be a &*^%%ing joke, since I probably have more Spire, Empire, Scion kills than anyone else I can currently think of, and killing them is Ix's RP, a simple gnome who was put out of Hillcrest for being a bum, and now seeks to destroy civilization. Anyway, I cant think of a single charachter who ever met or spoke with you, Refuge wise, who didnt later send me a note saying they didnt think you were Outlander material. Anyway, calm down some, its just a game, no ones gonna think your weak if you are actually polite every now and then.

NT

Was where he came from. Something he explained to you, and exactly what I was speaking of when I told people you either couldn't, or wouldn't try to understand what he was saying.

Okay, so you killed a bunch of people.... You're a Murder gnome, it's what the build does. That doesn't make you NOT orderly seeming. Note, I'm not saying your character is orderly, but I just don't see a need for Outlanders to really care for each other or even have an espirit de corps like Battle does. They just have to come together when the Tree is threatened.

So I killed some Outlanders? Is that a crime? I don't think so. What is a Crime are Woodland Paladins and Tea Drinking Royals on their Briar patch thrones freaking out when they get an axe in the face when they lip off to a wild thing.

I understood perfectly well that the Grotto was where you came from, an I listened to you tell your story. The problem was you had, or seemed to have no knowledge of the Refuge, or the Ancients, or why or what we are fighting for. Thus I asked you to speak with others of the Refuge to learn more of these matters. As for your comment that Outlanders only need to come together when the Tree is threatened, I find it a common atitude, and one Ix totally doesnt agree with. The old analogy, what would hurt the worst, if I struck you with my open hand and five fingers, or if I clench that hand into a fist. Sadly for Svigmaar I suppose Ix is the one who makes those decisions at the moment, and yes I totally agree with you that I got the Harbingers spot because I put the time in, it is certainly nothing special I did. A mediocre player at best, not the greatest at RP, I was very shocked when Ix was made Harbinger. But anyone who has RP'ed with him can tell you it is something he takes very seriously, to the annoyance of many I am sure.

Or does that not compute with sphere murder gnome?

If RP is throwing a tantrum and calling a leader of the cabal you are seeking to join a Spire slave, and then greeting them as Provost for at least a week, then no that doesnt compute with this sphere Air gnome. He was given a much, much simpler task than most, only to gather some knowledge of who and what the Refuge is about, if he couldnt hack that then well, tough &^%* I suppose.

Your RP doesn't render you immune to the RP of others.

You can RP being kind of a jackass crackpot, but a cabal leader who normally would not induct a jackass crackpot isn't obligated to break his RP to induct you.

and you will note i never went back for seconds and put a foot note in my role that i was waiting for him to die.

the flip side is i have m expectations too and if they arent met (And im not implying they must be met) im free to go elswhere.

i refer back to a comment Twist made about knowing almost immediatly if i like someone or not. Ticking off Bullet points while sitting on the root of a massive tree just seemed at odds with me.

Sure I could have sucked some Tiger Ballsbut ....neh.

I never made an issue out of not getting in. at most i made a couple inquiries and a answered a few questions as to why I ddnt get in. Beyond that i kept playing an Outlander without complaint.

There is an old saying, "If you are in a room with a bunch of people you like and you can't think of a single one of them as the jerk, then you are it." I will add to it that if everyone thinks you are a jerk and you think everyone else is a jerk, then you need to focus your goggles to see things a lot more realistically.

CN character. not confined to behave in a way civil people would find acceptable. i deal with social misfits daily. tal #### tothem and they deck you they arent neccisarily bad, just antisocial.

I can only assume you are holding yourself out as an example for me. irony i got the notion that attacking and not getting along with outher outlanders from your Nightreaver.

We are talking about one persons opinion of me and one that isnt universal even if it is shared by some.

I didnt like Ix and chose to leave. I could have gotten in easily enough. This isnt my first circus.

I basically am just going by what I saw, other immortals saw and the general tone of this thread. Chaotic neutral is not chaotic evil. No matter how you twist the slant, it isn't working this time. And there is a certain aspect of how you play with others as to how you will be thought of. There have been many evil characters who have been generally liked by the player base. You used Twist's example of how he sometimes decides whether or not to hate a particular character. Judging by Twist's history of character's, I would say that he is a pretty good judge of how to hate and be hated the right way.

I wasnt trying to win a popularty contest (and havent) but my RP was anything but CE. i had some pretty specific perameters.

"As for wether you liked Ix or not, I could give a rats ass less, my RP is orderly? That must be a &*^%%ing joke, since I probably have more Spire, Empire, Scion kills than anyone else I can currently think of"

I've never really RPed around with you or got to know you at all so I'm not commenting on the character, just this statement. I have enjoyed the few interactions I've had with you.

Killing those of order doesn't really mean your RP is chaotic or not-orderly. Orderly isn't only following laws, it can have nothing to do with them. Thats why it was changed from lawful ;)

I've never interacted with your character in any meaningful way, and I couldn't really care less about your RP. Don't take this the wrong way.

Do you honestly believe that having a ton of scion, tribunal, and empire kills automatically makes your RP not orderly?

I agree with this.

However, I'd say this is more a discussion for general discussion or Ixlith's deletion thread if/when that happens. Let's try to keep Svigmaar's on topic to Svigmaar from here on out.

wasn't really aimed at Ixilth, just more of an interesting thought I picked up in his statements.

The elf played the arrogant snob angle. I went ofter them and had to deal with the consequences there after because everyone tried to defend them and ended up getting in my cross hairs.

And I hate to tell you but there are a fair number of douches out there. Svig didn't go out of his way to be one, why bother? They will come to you.

I was ####ty to your Ranger (Name forgotten) in the shrine.

But it was like watching So I married an axe Murderer. The part on the TV in the background where the guys are talking about their parents murder.

"I think they were Asian or something, because they looked Asian, and I think they were speaking Asian."

It also reminded me of the days when people put their Spheres in the description.

---The COURAGEous man before you is ready for COMBAT because COMBAT is part of his life. He is into combat like virgins are into PURITY. He is wearing travel worn clothes that are cut from COMBAT and his blade is one that is sharp and he must have lots of COURAGE to swing it in COMBAT.---

I may have come across as ####ish but the guy wasn't saying anything of substance. I was hoping that playing the devils advocate would make for a better discertation. Anyway I earned the boot I guess but I was just trying to play to what I felt were the flaws in his points.

I felt like you went beyond Devil's Advocate. I'm not going to say what Renkaide was saying was perfect. I'm not even going to say it was all right according to the Book of Baers. Your constant comments went from devile's advocate into obnoxious, just plain argumentative territory. Yes, the big Baer Love Fest was a little cheesy but you didn't have to stay if you didn't like it. What Aiyanna was saying was a good example of devil's advocate. From her IC point of view, things in my religion are different than Renkaide sees them. They were able to have a good discussion about it and hash some stuff out. You seemed like you were trying to troll more than anything else. I was about to kick you out myself when Renkaide asked you to leave, I'd been in the middle of typing something to say to you. There also wasn't much in your role to justify your acidic and generally unpleasant RP, which made it a lot harder for the imms to understand or empathize with.

I initially cane just to hear a speech but it turned into a debate between him and others and so I chimed in.

I had just mustered the self control to shut up though when you tossed me out. Ah well it wouldnt have lasted Im sure.

Did you catch my Forest Gump refrence later on after I popped your elf? =)

(Sorry I killed you Paladin at your Black Panther party.)

That was on "Cable Guy"

Actually Svig wasnt a douche, he helped me get some armor to get me on my feet and stuff without ever really meeting me, so it appears if you are a random person that treated him with respect, then he would treat you with respect.

Though it was never really even - you raped me hard the first time I fought you in caverns, and then the rest of the times we fought in civilization and I raped you.

There was very little I could actually do. Call some wasps. Get paralyzed by them while fighting you. flee, herb, comeback, you (And everyone else) was gone. I couldn't stay in a fight, or finish a fight with his build, cavern/Animist.

Hehe. I really dodn't feel it when fighting dwarves or Paladins with this character for some reason. But yeah good fights.

Well I enjoyed splattering One elf paladin all over the mountain side. :P

They are spell casters. Shield cleave and serpent strike are definitely for those who are more brutal in their fighting techniques. I am fine with the way they are.

Are short on magic.

I've played a couple types now they are somewhat utilitarian but they are lacking.

The only spells they lose are call lightning, control weather and entangle. All outdoor spells. They get all of the spells that the animist specialty gets plus cavernfall. Cavernfall being the reason they don't need the call lightning and control weather.

From the animist class, they lose the skills backrake, bearcharge, serpent strike, third attack and shield cleave. They lose no skills as a caverndweller. They gain spirit allies, trance, rebounding strike, sure footing, shadowstride, deafening howl and smokescreen.

Looks to me like that's the perfect build for a spellcasting ranger who lives underground. If you want the above ground skills and spells, then don't choose caverndweller.

I clearly asked for so much.

Wow! That was a pretty clear cut answer to your question. I don't know anything about the character, but you are definately acting like an ass.

I wish I could follow the advice if you have nothing good to say then don't say anything...but I can't. My first meeting with you was when you killed that paladin as he wondered out of his shrine(which I think is kind of crappy, but ok whatever). I asked why and the most I ever got was a just because(the equivalent of)...and then I realized you were a random murder svirfnebli.

Later on, I said screw it, I'm going to rank with you, especially since you seemed more lucid then(maybe you were drunk while attacking the paladin?). Well, you were being a douche to me then, insulting my intelligence primarily. But my character, as she is, let it slide. What really angered her was when you attacked Keren while he was defending. IF you ever wanted to be an outlander, comprimising our defense like that is a horrible thing to do. If he wasn't trying to run off folks---she would have more likely forgiven you.

My character(and I) didn't want to bother with a ranger, but after calling me a coward I decided to sit still and let you try to kill me--that first time didn't work well for you. The second time, not so well for me. I do have to say at least you didn't loot me--so thanks for that.

But all in all, you didn't play a neutral character--you were downright evil. IF I attacked everyone who insulted me because I was being a douche to them---I would be pretty evil. I don't think I have hated a character OOC as much as you. You had little to no roleplay(making stupid excuses just to smack someone) and was a complete douche. I thought Ixilth was a douche, and although my character doesnt love the gnome---I got over it. You, I never got over it, because frankly douche+no roleplaying=sucky.

I disagree with what you said. on a couple things. Definitly not a Murder Svirf and I as the player was definitly lucid.

Svig had no memories persay (because of purple mold or whatever in the Grotto) and was running off buried programing. its funny that you picked up he wasnt lucid but didnt make the conection to the RP.

I used specific perameters as to who I attacked.
Traditional outlander enemies.

People who attacked me personally or physically with the caveat that I dint hunt active people who insulted him.

And people who abandoned him or turned on him. You and Keren both fell into that.

Keren started barking orders to the group when Svig was young and I refused to obey and he started spewing insults. So I high lighted his name in red and attacked him when ever I saw him. i was talking to you guys during the raid an it was over when I let svig strike.

Again, did you notice his lack of memories?

Did you catch that he coldnt remember why he was mad at you?

Or Alouthinn, or Rayne or Tubnic?

Did you ever notice how I had a nack for offing people and then travelling with them?

There was more to svig than I ever got chance to develope. mostly it was the technical weaknesses of the build that bored me.

Some food for though you and I get along in my other incarnations.
anyway sorry I upset you so much with this character.

I am able to admit that I probably should have been neutral neutral--I have a hard time understanding exactly how a character will play out until later in their life and I thought it was a chaotic role... As far as being good--well all my character lean towards that way, I think I'm still within the neutral realm.

It is fine you hunt traditional outlander enemies--including paladins. But if you don't have a reason to hunt someone other than just because--it becomes questionable. If you gave me a traditional outlander response to why you killed the paladin, I would have been oh ok--my character still wouldn't have liked it, but OOC I would have said that makes sense.

As for Keren, I'm fairly sure the raid was still occuring, if not I may have misunderstood what Keren said--either way I still don't think Aiyanna would have liked it. And if you dont like him bossing him around just ignore him--thats what I do with bossy elves. I generally speaking don't kill them for it :P

As far as memory loss--if thats what you were going for it didn't come out that way. I seriously thought you were high or drunk or something after you killed that paladin after talking to you. If thats what you were going for...well good job I guess. And if I do like other characters of you--perhaps you just dont have the skills to play this kind of role yet. I know I wouldn't be able to do it. But I still think it was more evil than not.

and you are more good than not.

It's all degree. I've played your way.

I think I have the skills to play what ever I choose to behonest and I played Svig to my liking. You'll notice I'm not really bitching about anyone elses RP.

I think you are fine but you were missing a lot of what I was trying to say. And I may have said "Because" but do you recall me saying "Something compels me too."? That was your cue. You were very angry over the demise of a traditional enemy of the Cabal.

I was certain they were an OOC buddy of yours.

>I was certain they were an OOC buddy of yours.

I think you'll find you enjoy the game more overall if you swap your default assumption of:

This player is cheating / an asshole / doesn't understand how they're supposed to play

for:

There's something about this character's role I don't know.

But as a Person who has NO ooc connections and someone who is inclined to look for patterns and find them right or wrong.

I didn't have a Problem with Aiyanna. I'm just saying she flipped over a dead Pally and I thought it was odd.

If anything a paladin probably shouldnt be a focal point to your hunt. I can understand evils pouncing them just because of their views and how a paladins belief is against them. But a neutral can be more vocal. Essentially I see paladins as misguided. They are not 'true' defilers. They hold many believes that are actually good but contain that by a structure of conduct. Slaying a paladin who then dies following such structures I dont see as a a personal empowerment to themselves.. over a victory for said neutral outlander. I think the best approach for a paladin is to preach and show.

And if you rea the entire thread you'd see I said pretty much that up above.

And I wanted to fight someone pvp at that time so there's that.

Two things--my character believes killing someone who doesn't need to be killed is a horrendous thing--paladins, unless spirelings, do not need to be killed. Secondly, he was a paladin of Baerinika...guess who I follow? Oh that's right, Baerinika. Every single character I have played was religion first then cabal. When you said something compels me to it equals to because I felt like it. You can kill anyone and say something compels me too, and thats a ridiculous excuse.

I would have reacted the same way for any Baerinika paladin(or well anyone walking out of her shrine)...it is part of my role to believe paladins(especially Baerinika one's) do not need to die.

Your character at work made little to no sense to me, with or without role. Watching you hit the same paladin over and over was exceeding boring and I had no idea why you felt a need to attack the same person over a couple days time. If you wanted to play bu**head, you should state that at the beginning of your role..."This character will be played as a bu**head to most people and here is why."

If you notice the thread, you will find you are pretty much alone in your views, which doesn't mean you are wrong, but maybe self-reflection wouldn't hurt in this case.

Good Luck

eshval@carrionfields.com

Cocaine is God's way of saying that you're making too much money. - Robin Williams

Svigmaar attacked Paladins simply because they were Paladins and its in the Outlander Help File. I have had Other Outies who didnt.

As far a repeated attacks....They were there. I was being technical and jotting down what different affects different tactics had, and all of then seemed willing to play. Side for the one kill i didnt ever get another one and allways fought them on their terms and lost as a result.

So where was I going wrong by attacking Paladins with a CG nut job? I realize you all arent impressed with him but Ive never even thought to question Outies attacking Dwarves and Paladins... something I mentined above I codnt really get into.

I admit I pretty much tossed the role midlife because he became a technical character. In the begning I was using small sentences but toward the end I was damn near eloquent because of peoples demands for explanations.

A couple of side notes..

Memory loss is an outstanding way to play, which I'll have to adopt in my next character. That way, I can PK whoever I want to, and then not have to worry about it when it comes time to group up and rank.

Convenient. Not that I really care personally. If I had my way I'd be able to pk whoever I want with no IC repercussions simply because that's why I mud. However, it's not allowed and I accept that, and you probably should as well, or at least know that a char played as such is going to be looked at with a bit of disdain.

'The elf' (not the paladin) was certainly still defending the tree when you attacked. Uncertain where an elven invoker falls into the 'traditional outlander enemy' category, but there you have it. It should be noted that there was no interaction prior to the attack, but that the attack definitely influenced how he reacted to you later (The insults while you were learning). At that point he considered you a half-wit at best, and a betrayer at worst, although he chose to settle somewhere in the middle for 'even newer to the realms than I am' to give you the benefit of the doubt.

My contact with you really was minimal, but in general I felt like you were an idiot. Judging from the posts here, I'm not inclined to change my views.

It makes some sense to me now why you were so authortarian in your approach to our initial encounter.

I cant remeber the entire context of the conversation but to paraphrase it you called the charatr stupid and started issuing orders and I refused to join you. Then you slung out a series of insults.

Douche that I may have made Svig he was consistant and always willing to reconsile.

You just imediatly struck me as an asshat.