Thu Dec 14 13:55:46 2006

At 9 o'clock PM, Day of the Sun, 34th of the Month of Winter
on the Theran calendar Depoetsende perished, never to return.

Race:	elf
Class:	transmuter
Level:	46
Alignment:	Good
Ethos:	Orderly
Cabal:	FORTRESS, the Fortress of Light
Age:	368
Hours:	142

Sorry to see you go. I really thought you were a quality character and I was always happy to see you around. Additionally, thanks for always sticking up for me, raiding and retrieving with me. When you and Ell were around, I always knew it was going to be a fun time.

Good Luck with your next

Astinax

You taught me so much - or tried to, at least. I had hoped we'd have more time to spend together... and I always appreciated you trying to find me clothing (even though I never really cared too much about the gear), it was the fun in getting it that I enjoyed.

See you around!

And I always liked showing you new things. Frankly, I was beyond frustrated with the Fortress, and it was bleeding through way too much for me to even think I was roleplaying anymore. I was just taking up space in the cabal and sitting on a pile of really nice gear and hating the character. I detested the vast majority of the Fortress. I got talked into applying by someone else, and then Lauraine tried to tell me I didn't know what it was to be an Acolyte. Well someone telling me this is like telling Graatch he doesn't know anything about the village, so of course I had to get in then just to prove a point.

I would have enjoyed it a lot more if I just hadn't let Lauraine get under my skin and had just not joined the Fort. I won't be returning to the Fort anytime, if ever. I really just would rather have masturbated with a cheese grater than dealt with the majority of the people in the fort for another minute, not including you.

With the only hero I ever managed.

I play ostly goodies and I can't STAND fortress.

I've been in a few times and it's allways the same.

I think it's mostly stocked with people rejected from the Chaotic stupid pool.

Ethically challenged might be a mild definition of what I saw in there.

Nooooo, my haste/slow is no more heh jk, I loved having you around for those sticky situations, you should have stayed about cause my playing times are starting to get better..Do come back, great char.

Very no nonsense, abrupt and always on the go. I dig that kind of elf paladinity. There was never any question of what your beliefs were. You were certainly NOT one of the "I can tell you're a good guy by the color of your hat" guys, everything you did and said screamed "holy warrior" and I think thats great. I don't see me returning to the Fortress anytime soon though. It clearly needs more oversight than it currently has. Shokai being MIA as much as he is, Aarn being first an absentee tard and then deleting, and whatnot leaves Corlaan stretched pretty thin when it comes to watching what goes on (no disrespect to Cor, he's doing a great job but he's only one guy). I think it's a shame that people have to be forced to roleplay their alignments, and was glad to see this didn't apply to you.

She gave me a hard time when I joined the Fort too, I don't think you should have let it get to you. Seems to me that it could have been perfectly valid RP. Like you yourself stated, despite the poor review you got into the Fortress eventually. It wasn't that big of a deal.

Just because you and Pro enjoy masturbating with cheese graters a little too much is no reason to bash on people who like the Fort =P

More seriously, this feel of this post says people like you and Pro expect everyone in the Fort to be a veteran who conforms to your standards of lightwalker RP. Sadly, this is rarely the case. I don't mind having newbies around, and I don't mind seeing a veteran RP (as Lauraine obviously was) an unorthodox role. Just because you don't agree with what she said to you IC is no reason to get so freaking pissed off.

In any case, I just wanted to say I disagreed with your (and Pro's) assessment of the Fortress. Yeah, there are some parts of the Fort that makes me want to grind my teeth and cry, but overall I think its one of the best places in the game to learn PK. The awesome environment (usually Fortie players are willing to help out with PK advice and re-arming) in combination with the fact that there are almost always enemies (especially in the mid-ranks) made my favorite cabal in the game.

>She gave me a hard time when I joined the Fort too, I don't
>think you should have let it get to you. Seems to me that it
>could have been perfectly valid RP. Like you yourself stated,
>despite the poor review you got into the Fortress eventually.
>It wasn't that big of a deal.

I don't know why she'd give you a hard time, being that you were a maran you had no obligation to answer to her about anything. The fact is, what got to me was her asking me an opinion question that was pretty open ended, then insisting I was wrong. I'm reasonably sure this was in part a language barrier problem, but be that as it may it really irritated me. The fact that she felt obligated to write a note to the cabal saying I wasn't interested in joining anymore, which was clearly not the case and NOT what I told her also irritated me. When you have a cabal where people aren't exactly beating down your doors to join, it's not really cool to "give people a hard time" when they want to join. The fact that a good aligned elf healer Acolyte was standing there telling me I didn't know what being good was, while wearing evil eq and getting more and more pissed off when I didn't come up with whatever magic word she was fishing for....yeah...I'm not even going to get started on that. The short version is, had she not gone out of her way (IE the note) to try and keep me from even trying to get in another way I wouldn't have been so irritated. The fact that I got in "eventually" doesn't make it not a big deal. Thats like telling someone who sat on death row for 25 years, who gets out after being cleared by DNA "Hey man, you got out eventually. No big deal, right?". But really she wasn't a part of the problem once I got in. She's not the problem with the Fortress, she's just a symptom of it.

>
>Just because you and Pro enjoy masturbating with cheese
>graters a little too much is no reason to bash on people who
>like the Fort =

I used to love the Fort and have nothing against people who do, so I don't know where you came up with the opinion that I was bashing people who liked the fort. The fact is, the Fortress now is joke compared to what it used to be. When the only way to tell what someones alignment is, is by who they kill it says a whole lot about the roleplay going on. (Or lack thereof)
>
>More seriously, this feel of this post says people like you
>and Pro expect everyone in the Fort to be a veteran who
>conforms to your standards of lightwalker RP. Sadly, this is
>rarely the case. I don't mind having newbies around, and I
>don't mind seeing a veteran RP (as Lauraine obviously was) an
>unorthodox role. Just because you don't agree with what she
>said to you IC is no reason to get so freaking pissed off.

I liked your character, so I'm really trying hard to not call you a ####ing moron, but you're really making it hard for me here. I don't see by ANY stretch of the imagination how someone who is a "veteran of RP" as you put it, would do the things Lauraine did. She REPEATEDLY wore evil eq as an elf acolyte healer. I mean, in days gone by people got the boot for that kind of crap. It's just common frigging sense, if you are a good person you just DON'T wear certain things. The fact that Corlaan had to make her take off and sacrifice things that other people had been telling her for a long time was wrong of her to wear shows how much she was about powergaming and not at all about roleplay.

Now see, I went out of my way to not rant about this. I made one small statement about Lauraine in my post and let it lie. I don't know why you felt the need to go and get me started saying I was "So freaking pissed off" but now you went and GOT me pissed off. I don't see how you can in any way give any justification for the things she did, or why you felt the need to go out of your way to defend someone who wasn't being attacked, but there you have it. Happy now? Is this the kind of thread you were looking to start? Great, glad to accomodate you.

>
>In any case, I just wanted to say I disagreed with your (and
>Pro's) assessment of the Fortress. Yeah, there are some parts
>of the Fort that makes me want to grind my teeth and cry, but
>overall I think its one of the best places in the game to
>learn PK. The awesome environment (usually Fortie players are
>willing to help out with PK advice and re-arming) in
>combination with the fact that there are almost always enemies
>(especially in the mid-ranks) made my favorite cabal in the
>game.

I think trying to learn PK from the Fortress is like trying to learn to walk from Jerrys Kids. I don't think it's an "awesome enviornment" anymore, but it sure used to be. I think now it's nothing now but people paying lip service to their roleplay and doing whatever crappy things they think they can get away with (IE Your pal Lauraine walking around sporting evil gear, the little incident with Qian at the keep of the righteous, Molchek and his friend off ranking and leaving me to solo-retrieve against opposition when they had nobody in their range and had a free shot at retrieval). Things like this would NEVER have been tolerated before. I don't see how you can lump any of those things in with the words "awesome enviornment", so I'm left with two choices. You're either a complete ####ing moron, or only posted this horse#### in order to provoke me. If it's the first then get a clue. If it's the second, then #### you.

Happy now?

>>I don't mind having newbies around, and I
>>don't mind seeing a veteran RP (as Lauraine obviously was) an
>>unorthodox role. Just because you don't agree with what she
>>said to you IC is no reason to get so freaking pissed off.
>
> I don't see by ANY stretch of the imagination how
>someone who is a "veteran of RP" as you put it, would do the
>things Lauraine did.

Seonex said veteran, not "veteran of RP". RP is the verb of his sentence.

>She REPEATEDLY wore evil eq as an elf acolyte healer.

So the stuff she wore had a red aura? Or did a paladin purge it? If the item is so evil that the taint would remain no matter what, then it would be impossible for a paladin to remove the red aura, would it not? Personally, I'm okay with wearing it if it doesn't have red aura, gray taint or whatever is the no-no flag.

>Seonex said veteran, not "veteran of RP". RP is the verb of
>his sentence.
>

He said "Veteran RP" meaning veteran roleplayer. I don't know why you're nitpicking someone elses choice of phrase when you aren't exactly fluent yourself, but whatever.

>>She REPEATEDLY wore evil eq as an elf acolyte healer.
>
>So the stuff she wore had a red aura? Or did a paladin purge
>it? If the item is so evil that the taint would remain no
>matter what, then it would be impossible for a paladin to
>remove the red aura, would it not? Personally, I'm okay with
>wearing it if it doesn't have red aura, gray taint or whatever
>is the no-no flag.

I can't say if it had the taint or not, since I didn't have detect evil at the time. That being said, obviously it wasn't something the imms would allow since Corlaan made her sac the mask. The fact that she immd while still wielding the anguish really spoke poorly. Saying "Just because it lacks a red aura" is lame. Thats like saying if you find a weapon made out of a severed baby arm, as long as someone cleanses it it's okay to use as a good person. Some things are just so steeped in evil that no good person should be seen using it.

>
>>Seonex said veteran, not "veteran of RP". RP is the verb of
>>his sentence.
>>
>
>He said "Veteran RP" meaning veteran roleplayer. I don't know
>why you're nitpicking someone elses choice of phrase when you
>aren't exactly fluent yourself, but whatever.

Or veteran roleplay. RP is the only verb I see in that part of the sentence. The clause in parenthesis was put in a rather confusing place. Let's take a look at the sentence again:

I don't mind having newbies around, and I don't mind seeing a veteran RP (as Lauraine obviously was) an unorthodox role.

When we remove the clause in parenthesis and the first sentence, we obtain:

I don't mind seeing a veteran RP an unorthodox role.

Now your version becomes: I don't mind seeing a veteran roleplayer an unorthodox role., which is not grammatically correct while the interpretation where RP is roleplay is grammatically correct. Thus I'm not convinced that your interpretation would be the correct one.

I admit that your misinterpretation didn't appreciably alter the meaning of your statement, as 'veteran' and 'veteran of roleplay' aren't that much different as terms in this case and that it won't invalidate your post. I just like to point out illogicalities like this, nothing more to it than that. You are free to correct the grammar or spelling(as long as it's not American spelling vs English spelling thing) of my posts at any time if you find some errors. And yes, I do find arguing about grammar fun.

As for your claim of "rude ESL interview", why not post a log? I'd like to see what you actually mean by it.

>I can't say if it had the taint or not, since I didn't have
>detect evil at the time. That being said, obviously it wasn't
>something the imms would allow since Corlaan made her sac the
>mask. The fact that she immd while still wielding the anguish
>really spoke poorly. Saying "Just because it lacks a red aura"
>is lame. Thats like saying if you find a weapon made out of a
>severed baby arm, as long as someone cleanses it it's okay to
>use as a good person. Some things are just so steeped in evil
>that no good person should be seen using it.

Paladins can cleanse evil from items. If this is successful, the item is no longer evil(I acknowledge that the description of the item becomes outdated after cleansing). If the item is too evil, then it shouldn't be cleansable in the first place. So yes, red aura should be the determining factor alignment-wise. The rest goes by your characters personal beliefs(one could argue that the child's remains should be allowed their final rest, but the weapon is no longer evil after the red aura is removed).

>Paladins can cleanse evil from items. If this is successful,
>the item is no longer evil(I acknowledge that the description
>of the item becomes outdated after cleansing). If the item is
>too evil, then it shouldn't be cleansable in the first place.
>So yes, red aura should be the determining factor
>alignment-wise.

I generally go with this also. There are items you can't cleanse.

Ultimately, there is just about no one whose RP is flawless, but I generally find that players tend to gloss over their shortcomings and focus on those of others.

That's pretty hard to justify.

It's in the name and the short description, that's for sure.

>
>I generally go with this also. There are items you
>can't cleanse.

Yes but apparently she WAS using items that were frowned upon by the immortals of the Fortress, since she was made to sac them. I find it really appaling that she went right back out and got ANOTHER very VERY evil item to wear shortly after. It's like someone getting busted for selling meth who thinks they are cleaning up their act by selling heroin instead. She had already been ripped (at least) once for using evil items, you would think she wouldn't want to rush right out and get another. It's like another pet peeve of mine, goodies who go into hell. Each level requires a different "bad action" to progress. Hell, just to get in the place you are paying evil to get access. I understand there's a mechanics issue, but thats why playing good isn't easy, it's restrictive and it should be. If you're willing to pay a guy to take you across the river, why shouldn't you pay centurions to go to the palace to retrieve without killing cents? You better believe none of my paladins ever did that. Why should we make exceptions for people who want shinies? I just think thats really piss-poor roleplay.

>Ultimately, there is just about no one whose RP is flawless,
>but I generally find that players tend to gloss over their
>shortcomings and focus on those of others.

Nope, thats why I deleted. I knew my roleplay wasn't up to my usual standards and I doubted it was something I was going to be able to fix, considering the current state of the Fortress. We both know how I can be when something pisses me off enough. I have a pretty decent tolerance for "new" players who may not really have it down, but who are trying. (Remember the classes I used to hold for squires as Celebrimbor?) What I don't have much tolerance for is people who pay lip service (and badly at that) to their alignment, and do it for power gamey reasons. I've played characters with pretty serious limitations, and I stick to the role I make for myself. When I can't do that for whatever reason, I set the character aside and do something else. If it's not something I think I can fix, I delete.

I think there is way WAY too much emphasis on gear for some people. I understand everyone wants to have nice stuff and do well, but that should be something worked in with your roleplay. It shouldn't be MORE important than your roleplay. People should feel free to roleplay whatever they want, but that doesn't entitle them to also be made leaders and get nifty things. Had she not been Elder Prophet it wouldn't have been AS big a deal that she was sporting really REALLY evil equipment. It's still not exactly acolytey, but if you aren't the one in charge there isn't such a burden to be a shining example to the others. But the fact is, she WAS leader and she DID have the obligation to be someone who others could look at and say "Wow, thats what a good aligned person is like".

On the flip side, if it was me wearing that stuff and saying "Hey man it was cleansed and not anti-good, I had every right to be wielding that dead babies arm" I'd feel it a pretty safe bet your opinion might be a tad different.

>Yes but apparently she WAS using items that were frowned upon
>by the immortals of the Fortress, since she was made to sac
>them.

It's pretty safe to say that you don't have the whole story there.

>On the flip side, if it was me wearing that stuff and saying
>"Hey man it was cleansed and not anti-good, I had every right
>to be wielding that dead babies arm" I'd feel it a pretty safe
>bet your opinion might be a tad different.

Maybe, maybe not. There's things I think Lauraine does right about good-align RP that you don't; I also think there are things you do right about good-align RP that she doesn't. There are things you both do right that I don't, etc. For just about anyone, if you really want to find a reason to nitpick, you can.

Or eat lemon covered Brownies in front of the Commander?

What would your take be on that if you were the Commander?

This is getting further and further afield from Depoetsende. Let's migrate it over to gameplay or something if we need to trail this on and on?

I do that #### all the time. They make great nunchuks.

nt

.

n

>As for your claim of "rude ESL interview", why not post a log?
>I'd like to see what you actually mean by it.

Three reasons. One being I'd have to actually look for it, and it really wouldn't change whats happened. Two being I'm fairly certain I was at work when I interviewed and I never log on my laptop. Three being, even if I do have it I would have a ####ton of logs to look through, and considering how many characters I've had that interacted with her it would take an amount of effort that I don't care to put in. Anyone who talked to her for an interview knows what I mean. The general consensus was "I never had any clue what she was talking about".

>Paladins can cleanse evil from items. If this is successful,
>the item is no longer evil(I acknowledge that the description
>of the item becomes outdated after cleansing). If the item is
>too evil, then it shouldn't be cleansable in the first place.
>So yes, red aura should be the determining factor
>alignment-wise. The rest goes by your characters personal
>beliefs(one could argue that the child's remains should be
>allowed their final rest, but the weapon is no longer evil
>after the red aura is removed).

Whether or not an item "should be cleansable" is irrelevant, since there are a lot of items unable to be worn by good aligns that doesn't even have a red aura. Just because something doesn't have an aura of evil anymore doesn't mean it's suitable for good to use. There also needs to be a common sense factor. I can't help but feel that if Shokai were around, things in the Fortress would be very different. (No slight to Cor intended, like I said he's just one guy and has a different style) Shokai is very no-nonsense when it comes to things like this, and I can say with near certainty if he had seen her sporting the mask and Anguish, she would have gotten smacked down with the "This shouldn't even need to be said so I'm pissed off that you're making me say it" stick.

You have every right to that opinion, just as I have ever right to disagree with it (which I do). It doesn't make me right or you right, it's personal opinion. You may *think* it's better RP if you never wield cleansed weapons/armor. I don't. I think it is perfectly valid for a good align to wield a cleansed weapon or wear cleansed armor. At the end of the day, stuff that is *too* evil cannot be cleansed.

It's a game and you need to accept the fact that someone can have different priorities/opinions or views than yourself and still be equally right to have such.

Trying to character assassinate Lauraine on this just screams to me the fact that you are rigid in the way you want a good align to be played; which is arrogant and pigheaded.

Just take it easy man and enjoy.

>You have every right to that opinion, just as I have ever
>right to disagree with it (which I do). It doesn't make me
>right or you right, it's personal opinion. You may *think*
>it's better RP if you never wield cleansed weapons/armor. I
>don't. I think it is perfectly valid for a good align to
>wield a cleansed weapon or wear cleansed armor. At the end of
>the day, stuff that is *too* evil cannot be cleansed.

Like you said, we can disagree on this. There are VERy few items that can't be cleansed and some of those make no sense to me since the items themselves seem to not be inherently evil. Then there are items that can be cleansed that are just steeped in evil. Most of this is probably area author discretion, rather than overall staff opinion about how evil an item is.

>It's a game and you need to accept the fact that someone can
>have different priorities/opinions or views than yourself and
>still be equally right to have such.

I'm not arguing about that.

>
>Trying to character assassinate Lauraine on this just screams
>to me the fact that you are rigid in the way you want a good
>align to be played; which is arrogant and pigheaded.

Actually the only comment I made about it until Seonex provoked me was that she gave me a hard time and got under my skin. I wasn't being rigid and didn't go out of my way to voice my opinion on the matter until then. That being said, at least I was arrogant and pigheaded and posted with my forum handle. Posting as a guest "necro" doesn't show me you're too confident in your observations.

>
>Just take it easy man and enjoy.

It's hard to enjoy when the people in your cabal are pissing all over the entire reason for your cabal to exist. No I'm not even talking about the Lauraine thing, I'm talking about the vast majority of the people who are in the fortress currently who talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

I don't have anything against your characters, and the few I've interacted with I liked.

I was just commenting that I can throw out at least two or three goodie RP angles off the top of my head where giving applicants a hard time and wearing evil equipment is perfectly fine.

For example, one of the most successful characters I've interacted with, Dulmisa, regularly carted around wooden hummingbird pendants and I've seen an Emperor (Niaz-something) with Heartseeker. Hoarding equipment to keep it from your enemies, while from an OOC view is kinda lame to me, is perfectly valid RP. Giving applicants a hard time can be justified any number of different ways, but I heard Lauraine emphasize being persistent and strong enough to overcome many obstacles over CB. I can see a role like that easy.

Just wanted to say that I think you and a number of other people were overreacting about the problems with the Fort, and that I like it as it currently is. Some parts bother me, but its still my favorite cabal. Of course, you are free to disagree. You may even be right.

I apologize if I got you riled up. Nothing personal. <3

>I don't have anything against your characters, and the few
>I've interacted with I liked.

Thanks, like i said I liked Seonex too.

>
>I was just commenting that I can throw out at least two or
>three goodie RP angles off the top of my head where giving
>applicants a hard time and wearing evil equipment is perfectly
>fine.

But it's really not. There's no RP angle that lets you be a total gearwhore and ignore the fact that you are wearing really horribly evil items as an elf acolyte healer leader. Sure in a less "all for the light" role I could see it, but not for a fortress character and ESPECIALLY not for the Elder Prophet. Look at Aheluns PBF and read the imm comments. The only reason I didn't have Eshvals tat was because it would have looked REALLY bad for a paladin to be running around with it. I still worshipped an evil god, but there was a VERY fine line not to be crossed. Believe me, I know about goodie RP angles and what is clearly too far.

>For example, one of the most successful characters I've
>interacted with, Dulmisa, regularly carted around wooden
>hummingbird pendants and I've seen an Emperor (Niaz-something)
>with Heartseeker. Hoarding equipment to keep it from your
>enemies, while from an OOC view is kinda lame to me, is
>perfectly valid RP. Giving applicants a hard time can be
>justified any number of different ways, but I heard Lauraine
>emphasize being persistent and strong enough to overcome many
>obstacles over CB. I can see a role like that easy.

Carrying the eq around to keep it out of someones hands is one thing. If something is so evil that you don't want it loose in the world the last thing you would want to do is WEAR it.

>
>Just wanted to say that I think you and a number of other
>people were overreacting about the problems with the Fort, and
>that I like it as it currently is. Some parts bother me, but
>its still my favorite cabal. Of course, you are free to
>disagree. You may even be right.

I am. :P

>
>I apologize if I got you riled up. Nothing personal. <3

It's all good.

A few things :

1) I don't get the "Karithia" syndrome. Here's what it boils down to. Primarily, its people who play good aligned characters, who act like jerks the entire time in game. They do this knowing the majority of people who interact with them, assuming they don't break their own RP, have zero means of getting back at them. I don't understand that, what's so fun about being a jackass to your allies and making their playing miserable?

2) There's a lot of 'floofy' RP in the Fortress. I'm ok with that, so long as its still good aligned floofy RP. I tend to agree with Vlad though, in that there's a lot of hand holding (even in Maran) and questionable RP gets ignored "for the sake of the newbies". Wearing evil EQ as an acolyte leader? That's incredibly terrible RP. From a leader, I'd expect more. I'd boot a scribe who did that more than once, let alone the leader of Acolytes. I'm not sure why she was made leader to begin with, I guess she met the other criteria (having a pulse and being online often).

3) The guy can dislike someone without "bashing Fortress likers". I used to like the Fortress too, back when it wasn't lame. Now its the Inn, only worse, and like Vlad I don't intend on rolling another Maran after my experiences as my last Maran paladin. A lot of whining about fighting from Marans, a lot of bloodthirsty scribes who just wanted EQ, and typical gear whoring which boggles me to find in a good aligned cabal.

There's some truth I think to what you have said. Unfortunately, without more veteran RPs to add a bit of fire (and very little mortal leadership), it's really difficult to inspire the kind of flaming justice you seem to be talking about. There was one youngling...can't remember a name...but had the idea down right. Fortunately, it seems to be changing a bit with the influx of new blood. Plenty of retrieving, hunting of scions/imperials/darklings, etc. Some time still spent obtaining eq, but I really haven't noticed it detracting from the roles of the squires/maran/scribes/acolytes.

I wish you could have been there for the little bit of..conflict between Ellenia/Ethelle regarding gold spirits and the king of Darsylon. Ellenia seems to be doing a pretty good job as a maran.

I don't think Vlad is saying the Fort is completely lacking in good players, though there are alot of newb in it - which is totally cool. We all were newbs once.

We each play our own angles, and that's cool too - I'm only upset that Vlad got a bad taste in his mouth about the Fort, because the Fort needs an influx of good players.

>I don't think Vlad is saying the Fort is completely lacking
>in good players, though there are alot of newb in it - which
>is totally cool. We all were newbs once.

I agree with this in its entirety. You and Ethelle are two of the better roleplayed personalities in the Fort right now, hence the reason I spent as much time with you as I could. New players are GREAT for the game and I go pretty far out of my way to help newer (and not so new) players who want or need to learn things. As Celebrimbor I used to hold classes and drills for squires. I'd do surprise basic prep inspections and question the squires randomly about the basics of prepping. Flight potions, roots, returns, etc were things I went out of my way to be sure everyone had at all times.

>
>We each play our own angles, and that's cool too - I'm only
>upset that Vlad got a bad taste in his mouth about the Fort,
>because the Fort needs an influx of good players.

I'm all for playing our own angles, believe me I'm known for playing some unusual ones myself. But when people are blatantly powergaming and tossing all roleplay out the window for their own convenience (ALA Molchek) AND getting away with it, then thats not the kind of enviornment I want to be in.

>But when people are
>blatantly powergaming and tossing all roleplay out the window
>for their own convenience (ALA Molchek)

Someday you'll have to explain to me how someone who dies and dies that much and basically never wins fights can be powergaming. :P

Before his induction he was all gung ho "I'm all about the light, the Fortress is my life" blah blah. I logged in one of many times without the orb. Molchek, and at least one other Squire (Who I won't name because he's still active) were off in the chessmasters tower ranking. I had Imperials in range, and asked over the cabal channel if they did. Neither did. So I waited a few minutes, and they didn't say anything. So I went to Hamsah and said I was getting ready to strike. Again, not a peep. So I went and raided against defenders, taking another 10 minutes or so to retrieve and fight. The Vanquisher dies, and I immediately hear over the cabal channel "Oh we were just getting ready to come help you with that."

When you throw your roleplay out the window to advance the players agenda (IE ranking) thats powergaming.

That guy was probably at least as big of a newbie in need of guidance as to how to do it right as the newbies you want to offer guidance.

Incidentally, I don't hear anywhere in there that you're asking for the help. You're assuming the players know better, but they probably don't.

>That guy was probably at least as big of a newbie in need of
>guidance as to how to do it right as the newbies you want to
>offer guidance.

He talked enough of the talk to get in. He had his cabal duties explained to him I have NO doubt. I've never once seen someone inducted who isn't given the "We need to protect the orb" speech. I'm not saying it's impossible that one slipped through the cracks, but he seemed to know enough to know what was expected of him.

>
>Incidentally, I don't hear anywhere in there that you're
>asking for the help. You're assuming the players know better,
>but they probably don't.

I asked for their help when I asked if they had anyone to defend against them, I said to meet in Hamsah for the retrieval. I'll concede that it's possible that he didn't know what was expected, but I don't consider it very likely all things considered.

So basically I was just singled out here because I'm not a veteran player in a cabal or wasn't quick enough to really pick up on how things worked inside one. Either way, that is irrelevant. What I am conecerned about here is how I am suddenly called out for powergaming and all that BS you mentioned earlier when I managed to get into the fortress by rp, -with- a death toll that was higher than that of some mages later on,(and no I did not get the 'defend the orb speech, but rather a, 'read these books and then tell me what acolytes are about, bye.' speech.) plus the fact you had no idea wtf my role was to begin with.

Had you, oh say, taken a little time to actually speak with Molcek about himself or really -anything- at all, you might find out that sometimes the people the Fortress were trying to help came before trying to get back the orb. Including whether or not there were 50 or 0 people defending against us. In fact that was what he spoke about to Zambirro when he was interviewing and how he got into the Fortress in the first place.

Also, in relation to this incident where people were not defending the Empire guardian and we were just learning and ignoring you; I don't seem to recall you -ever- saying anything about meeting in Hamsaah or heading to retrive it at all. On top of that, if there were ever a time there wasn't folk about who could hurt me, I tried my damnedest to try and get that thing back. Now granted, that could be my fault for not paying a close enough attention during learning, or even just a brain retardation on my part that evening. But, to be honest, I really didn't have much of an idea what was needed of me in that situation anyways. When I would try to retrieve on my own, I would get spanked by a gillion people; when i would try to retrieve with a group, they would either leave without me and I would show up at the tail end to boneshatter a few times before it was over or we might actually win through and retrieve. Either way, it seems to me that you cannot accept the fact that people can RP but not know the ins and outs of this game yet.

Basically, the vibe I am getting is the "WTf? This guy isn't doing everything perfect? He's just pissing on the whole idea of this Cabal." vibe. And really, I dont appreciate it.


ON A SIDE NOTE:

I thought this char of yours was well played. I was happy to see him log on and start to pull people together and really did want to be someone like that when Molchek managed to get older. Also, all things aside from earlier, I am sorry that I couldn't be more of a help in there. I really did want to try and learn how things went but maybe I'm just not cut out for cabal or something. Sorry I gave you such a bad impression.....take care.

He did die to me trying to retrieve the orb from the chasm solo, with plenty of evil aligned players looking for him.

Please drop it, you're not joining the fort again, we get it.

>So basically I was just singled out here because I'm not a
>veteran player in a cabal or wasn't quick enough to really
>pick up on how things worked inside one. Either way, that is
>irrelevant. What I am conecerned about here is how I am
>suddenly called out for powergaming and all that BS you
>mentioned earlier when I managed to get into the fortress by
>rp, -with- a death toll that was higher than that of some
>mages later on,(and no I did not get the 'defend the orb
>speech, but rather a, 'read these books and then tell me what
>acolytes are about, bye.' speech.) plus the fact you had no
>idea wtf my role was to begin with.

If you were newer than I had the impression of then I'm sorry. You conducted yourself anytime I talked to you like a veteran player, which says a lot of good things about you.

>
>Had you, oh say, taken a little time to actually speak with
>Molcek about himself or really -anything- at all, you might
>find out that sometimes the people the Fortress were trying to
>help came before trying to get back the orb. Including whether
>or not there were 50 or 0 people defending against us. In fact
>that was what he spoke about to Zambirro when he was
>interviewing and how he got into the Fortress in the first
>place.

Which doesn't change the facts of that day, but again if you were newer than I thought then I'm sorry.

>Also, in relation to this incident where people were not
>defending the Empire guardian and we were just learning and
>ignoring you; I don't seem to recall you -ever- saying
>anything about meeting in Hamsaah or heading to retrive it at
>all. On top of that, if there were ever a time there wasn't
>folk about who could hurt me, I tried my damnedest to try and
>get that thing back. Now granted, that could be my fault for
>not paying a close enough attention during learning, or even
>just a brain retardation on my part that evening. But, to be
>honest, I really didn't have much of an idea what was needed
>of me in that situation anyways. When I would try to retrieve
>on my own, I would get spanked by a gillion people; when i
>would try to retrieve with a group, they would either leave
>without me and I would show up at the tail end to boneshatter
>a few times before it was over or we might actually win
>through and retrieve. Either way, it seems to me that you
>cannot accept the fact that people can RP but not know the ins
>and outs of this game yet.

If thats the case then I'll be perfectly willing to admit I was wrong about you and apologize. It is hard to reconcile someone who can RP with someone who may not fully understand things. New players are usually VERY easy to spot, generally by their lack of roleplay. You carried yourself like a vet when we interacted, and totally had me fooled. Feel free to catch me in an email or on AIM or what have you if you need help with stuff relating to the mud (In a general sense, I prefer not to know who people are playing).

>Basically, the vibe I am getting is the "WTf? This guy isn't
>doing everything perfect? He's just pissing on the whole idea
>of this Cabal." vibe. And really, I dont appreciate it.

The thing with you was just one incident that stood out more in my mind than many of the others. It wasn't by any means the only incident, I only singled you out because you were already deleted and I was trying not to flame someone who is still active.

>
>ON A SIDE NOTE:
>
>I thought this char of yours was well played. I was happy to
>see him log on and start to pull people together and really
>did want to be someone like that when Molchek managed to get
>older. Also, all things aside from earlier, I am sorry that I
>couldn't be more of a help in there. I really did want to try
>and learn how things went but maybe I'm just not cut out for
>cabal or something. Sorry I gave you such a bad
>impression.....take care.

I'm sorry I jumped to the wrong conclusion. You honestly just had me fooled about how new you were. I can be a bit judgemental at times, but I try to be fair. If you say you're a newer player I'm content to take you at your word and offer my apology. When nobody claimed the character after your deletion, I assumed (incorrectly) that you were someone more experienced. Newer players tend to post goodbies more frequently, and I can't stress enough how well roleplayed you were for being new. I really do apologize, and hope you'll accept it.

No, hey, its alright, I guess I just got a little steamed for being singled out and took it a little too hard. What usually happens with me and these muds is exactly what just happened here. I can rp without an issue(thanks for the compliment about my rp offhand :) ); its the not pulling off the other crap that makes me look like a dunce or someone who is just using the cabal or guild or whatever to his own gear advantage. Sadly I seem to get a jumbled up in the learning of the new interface and new people and all that, that I forget I'm acutally supposed to be doing something aside from just rping and having a good time being in a cabal. Anyways, I seem to be getting off topic again so I guess I just wanted to say, apology accepted, and dont worry about any of it.

Oh also, hhen I didn't claim the character in the battlefields it was more because I didn't really get the feeling people missed him anyways and I was a little ashamed at how I had performed. As was mentioned before, soooooooo many deaths and it think maybe one win to my name, lol.

What usually happens with me and these muds is exactly what just happened here. I can rp without an issue(thanks for the compliment about my rp offhand :)

This just tells me you need to stick with one mud, and you'll do much better succeeding in the full package. This one. :)

Hey mate.

I could feel this from your character when we were around together but I really enjoyed interacting with you. Both of us sitting around duo caused a headache for alot of people, I am sure! Anyhow, good luck with your next and thanks for the numerous fun times.

Soleric

That's sort of why I deleted and was left with a relatively bad impression of the Fortress. There are some very fine roleplays, and some bad roleplayers in Fortress, like there are everywhere. I'm fine with that. But those in the middle ground tend to get swept up in the silliness which is so pervasive. They're okay when they're not surrounded by goofiness, but when ridiculous behavior pops up over cb or wherever, they go along with it, thinking this is, and should be, the norm for the Fortress. I've played some ridiculous and silly characters in my time, but there's a nebulous line I tried not to cross, and to me, Fortress often crossed that line.

I like travelling with Depoetsende, however.