Technically I deleted, but it was a long RP before it. So you can consider it to be age-death, yay!

I will post my good-byes, but there is so much I want to write that... Hmm. I think it will take some time.

Your comments to the newbish char are very welcome, and, contrary to many, I would like to hear both positive and CONSTRUCTIVE negative feedback. What you liked, what you didn't. I will take everything into account.

Thanks a lot in advance!

Andriy aka Krynna

Ok, as for part II.

I actually said a lot of the things I wanted to say while answering people posts.
So I will be shorter then expected.

Chapter I
Classes
Short guideline of what to fight and what to avoid with felar ranger.

Warriors
Specialisations starting from the most annoying to the least annoying
1) Whips/flails
Short and simple, do NOT fight whip specs in town. Never. Yea, I know you want to. Yea, I know you are hasted and prepped. Just DO NOT. Your chances to die are damn high, and your chances to seal the kill are close to zero. Avoid them in cities, be extremely careful with them in wilderness. Remember, you rely on dodge heavily. One lucky entwine can change the fight drastically.
Also remember, that drive or pull can change the terrain very fast. One second you are in the forest, next second you are on the road. On the roads – see above.
I was very surprised more people didn’t use dirt/eyejab after entwine to prevent me from using staff of return :P Pleasantly surprised.

2) Swords
Surprisingly annoying. Especially if opponent is bash spec. No, he won’t hit you all that much. You will kill yourself with ripostes, no need to worry :P Entwine + flurry = dead ranger. Damn unpleasant spec, and too many nodisarm swords around.

3) Polearms
Stops ambushes, nuff said. Also, bash specs with polearms are annoying as hell as well. And when they are dressed like Christmas Tree, I would advise to be opportunistic. Better safe then sorry.

4) Maces
You don’t have them among your weapons, they hit a lot. Boneshatter is a major pain in the arse for felar ranger (you will lose weapon in no time). Drum with dualed maces of water = ouch. Felar chief circlet is a bad protection against cranial. Be careful with them.

5) Daggers
Not all that annoying, but be ready to lose weapon. Watch your hp though, hasted bleeding is nasty and inability to use healer/healing pills will kill you in no time.

6) Axes
One of the least annoying specs. Just watch your hp not to catch lucky disembowel.

7) Spear/staff
Heh, good defence but nothing else, really. Dinkergnome used it pretty well with his legacy, but that’s about it.

Thieves
Ok, I hate thieves. I hate them with passion.
They are the reason I had to learn every secret path in wilderness to avoid roads as much as possible.
No, they won’t kill you. Unless you do something REALLY stupid. But each meeting with thief = no fire protection, no haste, no preps, no weapons, no magical items (aka periapts), nothing.
Honorable mention goes to Valryn, the most annoying Shadow Lord ever.
Thieves were the only people I was full looting. Nuff said.

Bards
The pain of felars. Real pain in the arse.
A piece of advise – after you have both dirge of solitude and blurring song on you, flee. I did mistake of staying a couple of times which costed me a couple of deaths.
There is no real point in staying in such situation. You are risking everything while bard is risking nothing. Even snares will not help you as you most probably will miss your ambush anyways.
So do yourself a favor, as soon as you have both of these songs on you, wave your paw and disappear. You will catch him some other day with his pants down, don’t worry.
Yeah, and besides Itholin, bards was the only class who ever did UNSPEAKABLE damages to me. Speaking of ‘masters of nothing’ *smirk*

Orcs
Meat, I pity them. The only ‘warrior’ class I was always attacking in civilized, even with horde.
Wield your staff and engage. They have poor defences and poor saves. Enlarge or reduce + surefooting will almost guarantee you are not perma-stunned. Good time to use backrake and cloud on them. No healer at recall, you know :P

A-paladins
Very few of them are dangerous really.
I’ve met two for the whole life, Scion leader and Dread lady. All the others were pretty much meat. Again, wield your staff and ambush. He is the one who will run most probably.

Assassins
Depends, depends a lot.
There are some of them that are meat, there are some that are very dangerous (especially felar assassins). Blindness dust is the gay against outlander ranger. I was carrying tons of cure blindness potions, but never seemed to help anyways. And yeah, btw, sometimes dirt kick is better opener against assassin then ambush. Why? You will figure it out yourself :)

Conjurers
Surprisingly easy to kill.
Read the logs if you want the details.

Druids
Never fought them.

Healers
What can I say? Hard to seal kill on, meat otherwise.

Invokers
Again, depends.
ABSed voker is a major pain in the arse. But you know, you don’t have to fight him when he is ABSed :)
Just wait for him to lose ABS and some shields, and strike. TADA!

Necroses
Meat in general. Though sleep can be pretty annoying.
Carry a couple of teleport potions, and you are good.
And yeah, blindness, again. Gay, gay , gay.

Paladins
Catch them till they are young :) Those with counter and danger sense are the most dangerous.
If you play correctly, they should never seal kill on you. Though they can make you run, yeah.
Sanctuary makes people too self-confident btw. Use it!

Shamans
And blindness again.
And rot.
Just keep them dirted, and watch maledictions. Don’t be ashamed to leave the battle and heal a bit.
Hard to seal the kill on though.

Shifters
Meat.

Transmutters
Ok, the only type of mage you should be careful with. Especially with felar.
Neuro is the major pain in the arse in the right hands, and you never know either he is ABSed or not.
I was avoiding them, personally. Or trying to “make friends” with them.

Chapter II
Of Outlanders (and war with Village)

Short and simple. I liked the cabal a lot.
Contrary to what many people thinks it has clearly specified goal, nice RP line without any real limitations, and no stupid plots or intrigues (which I personally hate). In addition, as I always pointed out on forums, alignment thing is greatly overrated (especially if you are playing evil), so you can simply ignore it in many situations. Freedom of choice and all that stuff.

One little comment on Outlander wars, especially war with Village.
Contrary to popular opinion, it was not me who wanted to start this war. Losing the only semi-ally cabal I had was not the wisest thing to do, to be honest. But Ancients were moaning, and crying, and annoying, and so there was no real choice left. I tried to finish this war as fast as possible. And I think I did well in ruling the situation out. And yeah, forgive me for being IC arse sometimes. You know, wonders of RP line.

As for Nexus.
I predict long and never-ending war with this cabal. I still don’t understand the whole point of it, but ok. If Imms think it is fine, I don’t mind. Though I wouldn’t really want to play in it.

And now to good-byes.

Well, ok, I said a lot of things I wanted to say already in replies to posts.

Just some persons I would like to mention additionally.

Draktel
I know you don’t like me OOC all that much, and I guess you have your reasons. For one thing it really annoyed me how well you are in playing shaman and using Imperial powers at the same time, you can take it as a compliment if you wish. I still think that
1) rot is a cheap spell to use on 90+ years cat
2) you are balancing on the edge of Grurk’s tenets in many situations
3) Imperial powers are unfair to Outlanders
4) looting me that hard was unnecessary
On the bright side, you are extremely cool and ballsy in my list. And I liked your attitude.
Keep on rolling, Empire needs you.

Valryn
I hate you, I would full loot you if ever managed to seal the kill.
This annoyance is a sign of well-played thief though. You can be proud of yourself. But I still hate you :P

Kharg
I said enough already in answer to her post.

Hmm, who else in Empire. No, I don’t think I’ve interacted with that many of you. Was mostly killing :)

Paskat
Ok, I said enough I guess in answer.
Taquitin
The same.

Gotakanal
You are the reason I added chapter of entwiners :)
Well played, and I am glad there are people in Tribunals who have heart.
Though you coming in group of 3 to retrieve Scales was annoying as hell, I so hoped to fight you one on one.

Eoal
Same as Gotakanal in the part of heart.
I always tried to be nice to you, and I am glad you had a chance to pay back one day.
I owe you couple points of con, so I can’t really blame you for no coming to retrieve later on.
Good luck in your learning!

Village
Yean
My favourite non-Tree bard.
We had some fun together, though I would prefer to have more.
Nice RP, cool PK. Very competent.
Thank you for the travel around Whistlewood and sorry for the link problems. That was unexpected really.
I am glad we didn’t make enemies.

Rektath
My favourite villager so far.
I said enough in his good-bye thread I think.

Commander
Damn, you could be an arse. I am glad I’ve never died to you though. Made me cool in my own eyes.
And yeah, sorry for that awful overrun in Holy Grove. I just had to kill you to make Outlanders look cool in that war.

Hmm, who else is left in village I didn’t mention?

Ah, Dregan
I had a lot of fun with you. Already posted it in your goodbyes though.

Forties
Too many of you to remember.
I had love-hate relationships with many of you. And those whom I had them with are mostly Immed now *boggle*

Lauri
The best healer ever.
I enjoyed our RP, and enjoyed to watch you in general.
Definitely the place you have now is well deserved. No matter what haters say.

Chokiare
We had some fun. Pity I’ve never managed to seal the kill. But I was so damn close a couple of times *sigh* Again, your place is well deserved.

Daelen
Said already.

Paladins (many of you, damn it)
I enjoyed our fights. And RP with most of you.
Paladins of Innis get honorable mention.

I have a feeling I forget a lot of people here, hmm. Post it and I will answer, damn it.

Ok, Outlanders

Oooh, so many of you in front of my eyes.
I will just mention those I liked the most and still can remember. Again, post and I will answer.

Nrei
I said more then enough already. Thanks

Jhesar
I was extremely disappointed when you deleted. None of Harbingers ever took your place in my heart. It was fun till it lasted, what can I say? We will definitely meet again.

Nefla
Said a lot already

Dizrug and his previous alt (I guess with 99% probability)
Ok, man, I still hear no answer from you.
What the hell has happened? I do need an answer. Please, post.

Chaisse
I said enough already, I think

All the elves
They are coming! Someone, turn off the light!
Now seriously, I like how Sunwardens certainly are back on the raid. Too bad no Nightreavers left to oppose them though :P

Ok, I am tired of typing :P

I liked this character. As I stated in my good byes, you weren't as good as Nreisshe, but still damned fun to fight against. Liked our talks also.

Kudos

Well played...hated the ambushes by the Fortress but I guess that was your thing. Always knew you were going to be lurking near when you were around. Had some good fights, unfortunately, as you said, I had a lot of difficulty trying to seal the kill on you and you got the better of me a couple of times. Looking forward to seeing your next.

Astinaxe

I really didn't mind Krynna at all, what I did mind was the postin on dios, in particular the comments. Sorry, but its really easy for people to take their one little look at something and say I'm not doing something right. Follow Grurk sometime and see how easy/hard it is. In that raid, I took five pieces of eq and I might have returned more except a bard came in and fiended me. So, who knows who took what, like I said, I took five pieces (I'm pretty sure).

Draktel would get ticked when you would always be there to defend the fort ordefend the village. Guess what, I don't have gaze when I don't have an item, so I knew full well if you were around, I might run into your snare, I just came prepared. I think its hard to land a kill on a shaman the same way its hard for me to land a kill.

As for your comment about rot. Rot has nothing to do with age, and felar in general are very healthy. I would wager your con was pretty high when you died, so "rot" wouldn't really hurt you. Wither is what you wouldn't like. :)

Imperial powers in general are not unfair to Outlanders, and honestly, if I didn't faerie fire you everytime you dirt kicked me, yo could have come back to ambush me. There are ways around the gaze. However, Only two Imperials have this ability at the most, so lets not generalize.

Lets also put it out there that I believe Outlander is the hardest cabal to raid for their item. Not that others are simple, but man does insects, spike growth, entangle, spores, and thornheart really make it hard.

Anyway, play an Imperial with every cabal except Tribunal, Herald, and sometimes Nexus gunning for you, and then talk about powers and such.

There goes my occasional ally and friend from the Outlanders! :( I did enjoy all the raids and explores..but she relied too much on magical stuff so I kept a distance from her after awhile.

I must say I'm impressed, knowing this is your first caballed char and all! You did a real good job rp, pk and leadership-wise. Seemed a pretty laid-back char but quick to react and deadly.

Thanks for all the fun and entertainment. You will be missed! Hope your next char is just as much fun.

"You are the reason I added chapter of entwiners
Well played, and I am glad there are people in Tribunals who have heart.
Though you coming in group of 3 to retrieve Scales was annoying as hell, I so hoped to fight you one on one."

Well what to say, you knew your stuff pretty well, I played a few rangers like two years ago and you did good. When I learned what to expect from a ranger postrevamp I knew where and when to fight you. As I wrote on dios, you did play a mean ranger, so I saw no reason to fight you on your terms. The first few logs you posted on dios had alot of tactical flaws in them but you became better and that time when I died to you I blame the duergar sword spec who used a flaming rib even though you had resist fire. Now to the part where I give you some pointers, don't post with a current char, if you do, don't put your ooc comments in it. Why? Because you had like 100 more pkwins then losses and still you complained everytime something didn't go as you planned, only a very stupid player goes up against a ranger who has shield/aura/stoneskin/haste a the tip of it's fingers in the rangers hometurf, if said player isn't prepped to it's teeth and still he will have rather low odds on getting the kill, you know this, still you somehow don't get it. That's why I tried to bring one or two friends with me when I was about to retrieve against you, cause I don't know what's in the woods, for all I know you Xeyviel, Dizrug and Chaisse could be sitting there and I would get onerounded. I hope any of what I'm trying to say makes sense to you.

Anyway Krynna was a cool char, you did well, next time try to keep away from the forums a bit more when the char is still active.

/Gota

If not let me know and I'll pick up this one and a few others.

That said. You were awesome... I just wish our times matched up better, we could have wrecked shop. Well you could have moreso, and I would have gladly tagged along :P

I don't know what to say about this being your first cabaled character. You obviously know what you are doing, and any newbishness I saw I definitely didn't interpret as that.

I'll not get into the debate with Draktel and Dhaezym other than to say that they are both kidding themselves if they think outlanders (especially evil mages) don't have just as many (read more) enemies than they do.

That said... If I could have re-arranged my schedule so that I was available during Russian time, you better believe I would have... Damn you for dying! Now I have no Dizrug (not that I ever saw him) and the damn elfs are overrruning the tree.

Hopefully we can hook up on future characters, as I enjoyed every minute with Krynna.

graveyard Krynna
Krynna perished on Sun Dec 10 15:28:14 2006
Krynna is mourned but not yet memorialized.

Purchase the character sheet at
http://www.carrionfields.com/store/battlefield.php


Go get it, I want to see it too! I'm another of those credit-cardless bums, else I'd done it myself already.

Patience is a virtue I don't possess, so I purchased mine and hers even though vlad says he's already done it. He probably has, but if so I imagine I'll have the option of applying it elsewhere.

Damn the time difference. You and Dizrug were my favourite companions. But, unfortunately, with you I never had too many chances to travel.

Thanks for my first trip to Hell, that was awesome.

With Dizrug gone, you are now the only possible Nightreaver I can see. And I certainly do hope you will use it wisely. With your habit of burning through con, this little leader bonus will certainly comes handy.

As for Draktel, I would simply ignore his comments. If he cannot see that Evil outlanders have more enemies then Empire, then bleh, arguing is pointless.

Hope to see you soon!

Not a word about me? Bah! And Nreisshe wouldn't have approved of you not dying of heart failure after a hunt, being old is just a state of mind until you kick the bucket!

To be honest, you didn't seem that new, just more like new to rangers. See, all I said about having to be patient was true, heh. I quite enjoyed having a "mini-me" around especially in the last years of Nrei's life and trying to teach you whatever tricks I might to make sure you'd be a good successor... I like to think I succeeded on that account. ;)

I don't think you were too un-evil, though you could've been a bit more brutal and murdered inferior weaklings (i.e. elves and gnomes and what have you) more often. Especially gnomes, they've been breeding explosively lately.

Well, can't think of much more to say right now, and I need food. Good job, great char, hope to run into you on the fields again.

There are many words about you! Hidden inside the first part :) Sensei.

Yep, thanks for all the lessons. You and Jhessar were those people who actually learned me to hell a lot about playing ranger. I hope I didn't disappoint either of you ;)

As for slaying weaklings. Well, yeah, it was just not in my RP line. I saw no real reasons to hunt them, and (in that case I behaved like neutral char in accordance to Duo) as I saw no reason, I was not attacking. Unless I was hungry at the moment (IC hungry, meaning I didn't kill anyone for that day). In general, I did not care all that much of number of PKills, was more interested in quality, learning, and having fun.

Good character all around. I enjoyed our interactions, travels and teaching you a bit here and there. Hope you had as much fun as I did, just a shame I lost the fire there towards the end. Good luck on your next! And I hope to see you around in some form.
BattleScout

it wasn't age death, yeah. Imp said I still had couple of years left.

You will understand everything after reading the last chapter of the role and last changed description :)

I look forward to reading it. As well as I should thank you for the couple of things you taught me. In that one area I had not explored that much and it was cool to find out a few helpful items. :D
Mrawr!
BattleScout

All Outlander rangers become the same to me after a while, but you always seemed to be there to mess me up. Don't know why I never seemed to run into you for some time now, probably because my playing time is basically reduced to nothing nowadays. Great char, though: ambush + (insert any offensive skill here) = dead me. Have fun with the next.

that our times were not matching at all. I was looking forward for more fights. And thanks.

Fought you as Gerandiel quite a lot, and always had respect for you then, which were quite evenly matched fights even with you hastened.

Fought you as my current char which basically was a total mismatch except when I was hastened (which has happened once), on which occasion it was a stalemate. Was some levels down on you but not sure if it would have helped much, as basically outlander ranger is probably the thing my character is most ineffective against.

That said, you always stuck to your rp and you were never an asshole in victory, so props to you. Well done.

NT

Didn't know the character very well, but you killed my groupmate a few times because he was ranking with me (I was an out of PK-range necro).

Sounds like it is the kind of character from which a handle is born (ala Balrahd, Graatch, Arolin etc..). Nice work.

P.S. You were on a heck of a lot :P

NT

Those gems of seeing are useful :). Great character, always enjoyed our interactions and our pummelings. Fighting you in the woods was painful, fighting you outside the woods were also surprisingly painful.

A word of advice that may perhaps help you. If you have the upper hand, especially in the woods, sometimes doing nothing is better then doing something in battle. Its the difference between backraking someone at half health and having them get away, or waiting and not being lagged out so when they flee, you can follow and "camo/ambush" quick. You have the quick movement in forests, use it to your advantage, especially on those who can't recall directly out of battle.

Good Luck!

I agree with you here. I was actually using this tactical choice closer to the end. But again, I was learning till the last day of Kryss life.

I liked fighting you as well, but it is pity (for me!) that you was avoiding fights in woods so much while not being Just. After you became one, I don't think we had a single fight (for some reason...)

Anyways, entwiners were among the most annoying classes for me, and it is not like I was particularly eager to fight you.

Well done with Just, but I would like to make one little request for you and all the Tribs in general. For the gods sake, guys. I can perfectly understand the logical line:

1) Krynna is the only evil Outlander online
2) City is burning
3) Krynna burned the city -> I can make Krynna wanted

But don't you think it is a bit ridiculous to abuse the power of WANTED flag in that way? I strongly believe that for placing wanted you must have DIRECT proves. But again, I might be wrong here :P

I couldn't really argue IC about it, but I would really like to hear some OOC feedback on that. As I think usage of wanted in such situations is a bit unfair. IMHO.

dealing with burning the city. I just passed that spot and it was not burning, went into Spire, came back out, saw you in that exact spot, by the time I got there the lag from ignite was out and you moved on but there was fire. It was enough for me coupled with the information you posted, that you were the only evil outlander on, was in the spot that was burning, it was not burning before when I passed by (literally two ticks ago), no fires were in the city before that. So unless an invoker sat there in the two ticks and spammed uncontrolled fireball, which I checked, its pretty much a lock.

When I played outlanders it sucked, but it is an offensive ability in a protected city and the laws are pretty clear on that.

There was that time when I came into Blackclaw after you, knowing you were there. I was metabolic quickened. You ambushed me and outtanked me and hit me three or four times for Demolishes and I didn't hit you at all in like two or three rounds. Thats the point where fighting a ranger in the woods is kind of foolish. I know its not good for your fun stick, but its also not good for my funstick to walk into the woods and allow you to manhandle me with impunity.

that I would not know that you will be quickened :)
So I used haste! That's why. It was not in my plan to get entwined by quickened warrior, so I decided to lessen the risk.

You were the only reason I wouldn't raid the Outlander Cabal solo. I could never tell when you were on or where you were. It pisses me off not to know. You were really the only Outlander I feared because you ALWAYS showed up in the most random of places. I think one time I teleported right into your snare. Good luck with the next. You are a great addition to Carrion Fields.

NT

You were one of the ones I really liked to battle.
We both did not agree on where our battles should take place though.
Mainly because I don't like being ambushed :P and because you want to ambush me.

I really liked your RP and most of all I liked way you talked.
Keep up the good work. I cannot wait for the next.
~Itholin

You have a honorable mention as the person who did the most damage to me in one strike! 800hp, take it or leave it! Was like "WTF is going on?" :)

I don't know about you, but that fight on the Battlefield (when you had Lauri by your side, and I was making grazes) was an epithome of tactical fight for me. I was really disappointed when you did not come to that no-magic room where I was resting with 200 hp ;) I so hoped that trap to work :(

But anyways, that was funny.

Huzzah! Honorable mention. *grins evily* Really? That was nice! I have seen a few strikes like that before but usually I end up killing someone with those ones...

Yes, that was an interesting battle. I still wish I had gotten you down in that battle, it was a hard one to seal the kill though. Once you went into that room I was thinking..."There is no way I'm going in there." I think Lauraine agreed.

At the begining of the battle I had forgotten some important things about that area though...which might be why I did not kill you. Atleast I think I did. I don't have that one logged so I cannot check.

I was getting together some money to buy some things, pick up
a few preps, and then give you the other side of our fight
(The one where I got to pick location this time) when I was
brought into the heavens.

I had loads of fun with you around, never knowing if I was
going to be hit, or the people raiding etc...
Damn that trap in the underdark though. Grrrr.
I should have gone the other way. :)

Good job all around!
I would give you constructive negative feedback, but I
honesty didn't see anything from my point of view to call
negative. Good luck with your next.

I was looking forward for that fight as well, in fact. Archers could be a pain in the arse in the right hands, and your hands were definately 'right' ;) So I was a bit disappointed to see you Immed.

Raids, yeah. I always like where there were many people around Fort. Made things very funny. No matter what people say about camping around Fort (I bet two etched pendants against skull ring that there WILL be an obligatory Imm comment of Fort camping in my PBF ;))

And yeah, thanks for the fun and good luck with Immortality!

>I was looking forward for that fight as well, in fact.
>Archers could be a pain in the arse in the right hands, and
>your hands were definately 'right' ;) So I was a bit
>disappointed to see you Immed.

Aww you are just saying that because you were flamable :)


>
>Raids, yeah. I always like where there were many people around
>Fort. Made things very funny. No matter what people say about
>camping around Fort (I bet two etched pendants against skull
>ring that there WILL be an obligatory Imm comment of Fort
>camping in my PBF ;))

:) I dunno, sometimes I was glad you were down there.
Like when imperials got snared by you, ambushed, and fled into
my snare. Sometimes I hated it... like when *I* got caught in
your snare. Heh.

>
>And yeah, thanks for the fun and good luck with Immortality!

Thanks yourself for the fun, You kept a fella on his toes.

Screw the haters who didn't like either. Good luck on your next, champ.

NT

Heh, I decided to write these good-byes beforehand as, most probably, I will be too lazy and sad to write them as this char dies. I might add something to this afterwards, but today she broke 76 year, and became old (damn felars live for long, long, long time, I swear).

Let me start from request, I think. I am in Ukraine so has all the same problems with usage of PayPal as most of Russian players here. So if anyone would be so kind to pay for my PBF, I will be MOST grateful. It is not that I can’t pay because I am poor or greedy, but the fact that it takes too much time and trouble to pay for myself. And I am just kinda curious to read Imm comments on this char, you know :)

Well, first of all, in CF terms I am probably newb. Believe it or not, but my total hours on CF with all the chars combined were around 600-700 in total. Obligatory defensive svirf shifter, random assassin, simply necessary for exploration conjurer, and some orc who is still alive (may be I will play him when I will a bit masochistic ;). So damn, it was real funny when people were like ‘WTF, you are THE Nightreaver and do not know way to the misty forest of Brumblef**k?!?!’, or ‘Don’t tell me you did not know that guards in Hamsah overrun you and take you to jail!’, or ‘Come on, I know you are aware of more wand locations then that!’. OOC I was like ‘Come on, people, before this char I didn’t have a freaking idea where GREEN POTIONS are from!’. Honestly, that was FUNNY.
But, to be fair, I have 10 years of experience in other MUDs (some of them are the ones that you guys compete in voting :). So I am not newb in MUDs in general. I just have to use DIKU maps to navigate in half of CF areas, but that’s about it!

What is even more funny, that Krynna was my first caballed char :)
Well, technically, when I was experimenting, I had an assassin who was Bloodoath, but after like 5 hours in Empire I never logged him in and swore to myself that I won’t ever step into this snake nest again (but who knows!). I didn’t like Empire for many-many reason which I won’t describe not to start flame wars (I guess difference in mentality between Ukrainians and Russians IS noticeable ;). Let’s just say that was not a cabal for me. So naturally it led me to the fact, that I should probably try Outlanders. And god, wasn’t I right? Some things I’ve learned from that assassin is that Outers slay you if you attack them as ghost, and that you lose ghost while entering Inners. That was useful :)

So, back to the point, this char was never rolled to become cabal leader. Never ever. Damn, Krynna could not read or write IC (absolutely necessary skill for cabal leader). On the first stages when I had to leave note, for RP reasons I had to use other people to write it for me. So when she DID became Nightreaver, there was noone more surprised then I was. Honestly.

In general, the whole history of this char is a big success. First char to ever survive past mature age, first caballed char, first char to become a cabal leader, first char who had more then 2 chapters in role, first char to have more then 10k of Imm exp, first char to have more wins then losses, first char (some) people were actually afraid of… First, first, first. I could go on with the list. You got the idea. So I liked her a lot.

I will write my goodbye in chapters from now on.

Chapter I.
Outlander Imms

Guys, I loved you all.
I forgot to mention. My second char on CF (after shifter), was druid. Who followed Innis. So from this time I had really warm feelings about Innis. Very newbie friendly god, trust me. My seal of recommendation. I believe that druid was even fully empowered (Zandreya was her name, if anyone cares or remembers), at least I could cast ‘the hunt’ (I did not have slightest idea of levels of empowerment at that time, I just thought you are empowered once and that’s about it :P)! But I left for a long journey and when I was back, she autoed :(
So when I was creating Krynna, I was actually considering her to be good-aligned (just to follow Innis). But later on I came with the idea of the role that was not even close to good align. So sorry!

So I decided to follow Amaranthe. And when I rolled and added role at level 5, I was reading through the help files just to make sure, and… I see the line where it is mentioned explicitly that she is not accepting evil aligned chars… God damn, that was frustrating.
So I prayed up and when some random Imm answered, I told him I am in trouble as I don’t know what god to choose as religion for evil Outlander wanna-be and asked him what religion he would recommend. That Imm had great sense of humor and advised me to follow god of Order, I believe :). Naturally I refused. So he told me ‘Well, then you can choose Lyresteon, I guess’. So I read the helpfile, and decided that I can RP THIS. And that’s how Krysss became Imp follower, folks! Ironic, isn’t it?

Was I disappointed in my choice? No, I don’t think so.
But I expect to read some harsh comments from Imp about general attitude of this char. My personal strong impression was that to be real Imp follow char had to behave like an arse sometimes. Well, full loot after duels and stuff like that. Which I never was able to do, really. Behaving like an arse is not my style in general (well, in actions, I know I can be pretty harsh with words :P). So I think I might not be evil enough to follow Imp. But who knows! I really hope to see his comments on this char, yeah.

In general, I liked Outlander Imms a lot.
With one little problem.
I freaking NEVER seemed to cross with them as much as I would like to, damn it!
I think I haven’t heard from any of them for the last 25 years of this char life. And that was a real disappointment. Time difference sucks, end of story.

I really hoped to get some quest skill with this char (just to add one more “First time” in my list), but I did not know how to initiate the process, and my attempts were met with silence on pray channel. So well, either I did something wrong (and I would like to hear some clues on that one, if Imms not mind), or, again, time difference just sucks.

Chapter II
Outlander powers

Well, I was holding myself for all this time and didn’t start any discussions on Officials on this topic. Just not to make it look like “Tone me up, and tone them down!” kind of rant. But now I am free to go! (Imms are free to edit out anything, if I say too much)

Ok, my advise for playerbase. Do NOT join Outlanders for power-seeking reasons. Their powers do not cover even close all the placed limitations. Join them for RP reasons, end of story.
In comparison, I would say their powers are the worst among all cabals (ok, I can’t talk of Nexus here), and their limitations are second worst after Battle. And evil Outlanders are even worse off then most of them. The only power that I was personally missing after Fetish was gone was windwalk. All the others are pretty useless (for ranger, at least). Well, ok, deadfall can be surprisingly good if you are learned in ‘snare’ game. But that’s about it.

And now to the shocking news. Leader position in Outlanders will not grant you piercing gaze, bloody shackles, guards, sigil of pain, cry of deliverance, sight of the damned and all the funny stuff other cabal leaders get. Leader position will grant you one spell (hint: you will use it during induction), and, if you are lucky + you are Sunwarden, some personalized item (I fail the second check in this function).

Don’t ask me why the things the way they are. I don’t know. I am newb. But I would really appreciate Imms to explain to me why there is so much of imbalance in this particular case. Honestly, it is so damn obvious and noone ever thought about it? I find it hard to believe. There must be some reasonable explanation. And this is a riddle that boggles my mind. Could you please give me a hint why? Thanks!

But, again, in general, as I was creating Krynna for pure RP reasons (I would go neutral, if I wanted more powers), I was not disappointed. As I didn’t expect for anything.

Chapter III
RP

My role is pretty self-explaining. I personally only like the first and the last Chapters (and yeah, forgive my English).

Krynna was NOT naturally evil. She was just a product of things that surrounded her from the childhood. That is why many Forties actually hoped to turn her from evil path. And she was allowing them to play this game, watching them with irony. She was not greedy. She believed that every person has the right to do what they want to do. With one exception. She hated slavery in all the forms, and coins, as the thing that breeds slavery. That is why her hunting list always looked like that. Top priority: Empire (the worst slavers). Second priority: Tribunal (those who allow slavery, use slaves (guards), breed usage of coins). Third priority: defilers (see Outlander helps). Fourth priority: Scions. Fifth priorty: fools that hunt her (Marans, paladins etc.) She was never as bloodthirsty as Nrei. I don’t think I attacked all that much gnomes at all before Nexus was in.

Also, she was not built around alignment concept at all. Actually, she always RPed full not-understanding of the whole alignment issue. I had a lot of funny RP sessions on that subject btw. Liked them a lot. That is why she never hunter Lauriane, for example. As she never considered her to be slaver, and elf never attacked her first. I think I had a whole number of ‘peace treaties’ with good-aligned people.

Hmm, what else. Yeah, did I mention she was vindictive and unforgiving bitch? I guess Nexus felt it to the fullest :).

Yeah, and don’t forget. She was chaotic. So unpredictable sometimes. Sometimes when I didn’t now even wanted it OOC, I acted like pure chaos. Well, you know, fruits of sphere.

If you have some questions as for RP, or think there were some inconsistencies, please do let me know. I was trying real hard to build hardcore RP with this char, and I would really love to hear some comments.

Chapter IV
PK

Ok, as some people mentioned already, I sucked pretty bad at the beginning. It took me around 200 hours to get the whole idea of ranger PK and understand the main rule. If you want to PK with rangers, you must have A LOT of patience. At hero you won’t have straightforward kills, unless you are damn lucky.
Ranger is all about preparation, choosing right time, and being unpredictable. Snares/deadfall game is fun as hell. Same as usage of the right skill in the right time.
I think if I started the same char now, I would have at least twice as more kills. But well, I learned to hell a lot.

As for preparations. I was using tons of them at the beginning, but with the flow of time I found out that I need them less and less. At the very end I was only using them during raid situations or while fighting huge odds (3-4 vs. 1). 80% of preps I was using, I didn’t know before starting this char.
The key point of prep using is re-gathering. And yeah, I might be just a bit fanatic here. As some of you mentioned, I pretty much had monopoly on ’Outlander-available’ haste staves (those that you can get without coins). Which was a bit surprising, considering how many times I lost them either due to PK death, or blackjack. I guess you people are just to lazy to recollect :P.

Ok, some comments on my combo (beastmaster/caverndweller).

Beastmaster

Predator’s stance – cool stuff. Considering how easy it is for felar ranger to lose ranger weapons, helps a ton. I surprised to hell lot of players with 3 DEVASTATES in a row after they made me drop weapon, heh. Used it sometimes for RP reasons (fight like an animal, villagers asking not to use magical weapons, in old years etc.)

Cloud of wasps – very useful in young years, almost never used it in PK during the last 300 hours (after all the tweaks). It is just damn hard to land with felar Int, and drawbacks are too serious. Couple of serpent strikes are often a better choice, believe it or not.

Bear kinship – I don’t think any beastmaster will cry a river if losing it. I found a couple of usages (the most classical is when you need to re-raid as fast as possible) but in general, bears are a way too weak, and -70+ morale for 50+ hours after bear’s death is just a way too much IMHO. Believe it or not, but -70 morale has some very noticeable affect on skills.

Serpent kinship – cool on paper, but I almost never used it in PK. The poison is just too unreliable. But, in general, you can use it some situations when you are 100% sure that target will escape if you won’t land this 4-5 rounds paralyze with snake poison. I can think of some situations where it would be worth to take a risk. But again, I might be preferring more straightforward skills in such situations. And yeah, someone enlight me what “confusion” does? Except funny affect in list.

Wolf kinship – useful. My only concern that it is still much worse then beast call ;) Chases too slow, unfortunately. And bugged a bit. It is pretty often that wolves do not track at all.

Caverndweller

Now that was a nice thing!
Ok, my advice to you, power-seekers. If you wish to feel like a king in your natural terrain, go for it! This spec probably has the best set of skills of all.

Sure footing is a life saver. Working in wilderness (not only in caves), and will save your life more often then you can imagine. What is bad about it? You never know when and if it worked. I have some deaths where I was perma-stunned. But at the same time, I had sometimes zero lag after fire-giant bashes. RNG, I guess.

Rebounding strike is very cool. Less cool then conceal in my book but still very descent. Note though, it can kill you in some situations. Read my logs if you need details.

Shadowstride is just awesome. Again, it works in any wilderness (improves dodge), but in caves it is simply outstanding. Feel yourself a mongoose, yo!

Deafening howl. Cool thing. I’ve never had a chance to use it properly, but when I had, it was useful. Not outstanding, but useful.

Smokescreen. Heh, annoyance, what can I say? Works well with snares. Can seal some kills for you if you are lucky.

Cavernfall. Use it in right time, and feel yourself like pole spec, yarr!

Dive ambush – would be very cool if was not missing that much. End of story. I still think it is unfair to miss that thing that much in natural terrain. Costed me some kills. And stupid in general. Makes good thing potentially not worth using in some situations.

Quick bearcharge – ok, now THAT was gay. I believe I had 0 lag with +1 size difference on opponent like 60% of times. I do understand why this thing works like that, but combined with how often bearcharge misses in general… Ok, bearcharge is not the strongest point of caverndweller. Do mountaineer if you want to seal kills with bearcharge.

Herbs – caverndweller can gather them almost in any place, contrary to other rangers. So be creative.

Blind sight – very cool thing. Allowed me to run through Underdark while blind without losing track even once. Use it wisely, and you will be cool.

Warning messages in caves – useful. No need to spam where is always useful. Just remember you have to see the foe to receive that message. Contrary to paladin virture, for example.

In general, there are much more caves around then you probably think. Use them correctly, and you will feel like in home almost in any area. On a side note, I can play my orc now, yay! As I know so much of caves. Good school for orcs!

Hmm, I think I will go on a bit later.
Too sleepy right now.
Next chapters to come are Of classes, Of Tree, and Goodbyes to players, yay!

Krynna, you're by far the best Nightreaver Outlander has had and the best cabal leader since Tjok. You stuck through a lot, chose your fights fairly wisely, and sealed a lot of kills. I have nothing but warm, glowing respect for you.

As the Sunwarden, I know its not right to be by your side outside of raiding/defending, but it was hard to stay away. You have this gravitational effect that makes other characters drawn to you. Other than raiding/defending, I think I did a fair job of not involving myself in what you did, but it was hard. It would have been fun to go exploring with you to see what we could find. Anyway, good luck with your next. This was an epic character.

I thank you a lot for kind words, though I think you are a bit overexagerrating :) But it feels warm and fuzzy inside!

I must say I was a bit surprised when Mitz became Sunwarden before you. But again, I didn't have many chances to interact with him.
So after he deleted, I was pretty sure you are our next Sunwarden. And I am glad I was right.

I liked to interact with you a lot. RP sessions were pretty interesting, and in PK we made a pretty solid team (when we actually could PK together not breaking RP). I will definately be back to Outlanders when I am:
1) Done with urgent and outstanding job projects
2) Feel that Outlanders need me
3) Find out if I have a chance to be empowered by Amaranthe despite our so different time schedules :P (the trickiest part)

So I hope you are still alive and rocking till that time, hah! Don't disappoint old cat, youngling!

First off, well done on your first caballed character. I could sense some newbie in you and I could sense some veteran in you. You knew how to pk and survive. Those are the two most important things for playing an evil outlander. You have many enemies and very few allies. You are a loner. If you are able to live alone and be successful, evil outlander is for you. For the most part, successful evil outlanders don't need any additional powers. I do agree that they add a nice touch and perhaps there will be a leader power someday. But, when your last two evil leaders combine for nearly 450 kills, it's hard to just give them something to make them tougher. On the other hand, maybe our good-aligned cabalmates could use something. :P

You did well with my religion. Some of my followers will be full looting players, others won't. It's more based on what you do that surprises your friends and foes most. In character, I don't have anything really negative to say about you. You were a solid representative of the religion and the cabal. Try to remember one thing when you post on the boards. Nothing is always going to work the way you expect. There are going to be times when things don't go your way. That is just part of the game to mainatin balance. If everything went the way you think it should with a specific combination, everyone would use the same combination. Not to mention the ability of some of the other players might exceed your own.

Yes, our times just did not mesh well. You play in the early hours and I mostly play in the evening hours game time. I think I only saw you on weekends occassionally and even woke up early just to try to catch you this morning. I missed by 2 hours.

Good luck with your next character.

>>But, when your last two evil leaders combine for nearly 450 kills, it's hard to just give them something to make them tougher. On the other hand, maybe our good-aligned cabalmates could use something.<<

As a general rule, shouldn't the good-aligned outlanders have less of a PK count? There's a lot more limitation on them as far as who is acceptable to hunt and not.

I think you missed the :P Yes. It is much more difficult for good aligns to get the number of pkills compared to an evil in Outlander. Morals can be a bitch.

I tend to agree that it might be hard to justify additional powers in such situations, but let's be honest. The number of Nrei or mine pkills had nothing in common with cabal powers. It was pure usage of class powers + PK experience + CF experience (in Nrei's case).

It is not that I am too worried of that stuff, don't get me wrong. It is just unfairness of situation that boggles my mind. I mean I've heard arguments like 'There can be only one Emperor/Vindicator/Chansellor' when people were whining of their powers. But at the same time how many Nightreavers are there :)?
The most annoying part (personally for me) is that two main foes of the cabal has powers that allow them completely nullify the main advantage Outlanders have - ability to choose time and place of the fight with the help of chameleon. Why then Outlander leaders have no powers to nullify, to say, black shroud, or piercing gaze, or sigil of pain, or bloody shackles, or whatever?

As for my posting on boards. Yeah, I realize I can be annoying in times ;). I am struggling hard to avoid it, and I am nothing like I was several years ago. I will take it into account.

As for our time difference. Yeah, it was the most annoying part. Personally for me it always seemed like Innis is the most active of the trio, and Amaranthe is the least active. Which is a pity. As Outlanders, as a cabal, could really use some more Imm interaction.

And for the last - one question for you. Was it you who literally made me to raid Imperial palace with Kharg defending? That was evil, and caused my only death to anti-paladin! You killed Kenny, evil bastard! :)

I do a lot of interaction, but, it is not always me as Lyr. Your hours put you at a bit of a disadvantage, unfortunately.

As for the death from the raid, I had nothing to do with it. It was probably some imperial imm. :P

Blame Cana...Imperials! Blame Imperials!

I wonder if there is any comment on that in PBF :P That was really arsish of that Imm!

Nearly 450 pk's seems like a large number until you look at the number of hours. Between the two roughly 1450 hours. Where many other cabal leaders seem to put up just as impressive of numbers in much less time, look at Grunlath and Vens just to name two others that come to mind, I know neither of them lasted near 700+ hours.

The fights we had where bla...I felt bad for you, I think divine insight and counter strike stopped all your ambush attempts. Com wrath rinse and repeat, was very boring. Loved the char, rp, hope to see you again soon.

Heh, you are one of those rare paladins I've never managed to seal the kill on. In fact, that char was surprisingly good against paladins. To my great surprise. I think only few of paladin ever escaped being killed by myself at one point or another.

But shield paladins with counter and insight... Bleh, waste of time. I was only fighting you cause I hoped for some f***-up to happen which would allow me to take the advantage. Like, I don't know, sanctuary falling, sudden bolt of lightning from heavens, crazy lemmings engage :) Something like that.

I guess I must thank you for trying to be creative in some fights to make it interesting for us both. I really appreciate that.

I never got any newb vibes from you. You had a solid presence and a great impact on the game from what I saw and witnessed. I do not need to worry about stumbling into random snares now atleast. It got really annoying to get stuck for 6 ticks in a snare when I was running from a fiending bard or head to raid and stuff. We had out share of fights during the battle/outlander war but it was even and I got you a few times and you got me a few times. Nice char. I hope to see you in the fields. Maybe this time you can try a battlerager. With your playing style a defender would go great IMHO.

Luck. See you in the fields. Keep the todger swinging! ;)

Trurkrag the Todger-Swinging Veteran of War and Whorehouses.

Yeah, I liked fighting you. You really showed me the real power of mace/axe spec. Those drums were nasty though :(

I am sorry for that death when you got into snares while running from Nexus. That was unexpected.

Roll-on, Village needs you!

' Their powers do not cover even close all the placed limitations. '

This is something I'd like to make a small comment on.

The powers of the Outlander cabal, and those of all the three alignments in Outlander at that, are in my opinion somewhat centered around one single power that this cabal offers to members of all these three paths. Namely; chameleon.

It's a rather ironic given that the class which the Outlander cabal seems to invite the most is actually the ranger -- exactly the one class to whom this primary power of chameleon is, first of all, essentially redundant, and secondly and perhaps most importantly, it also doesn't add any new dynamics to the hows of PK'ing with this class either. In fact, a ranger reaps very little benefit from Outlander in the core powers department (as in, the powers available to all Outlanders regardless of their alignment), with the sole and partial exception of windwalk -- essentially a free 'fly' for your ranger, while its secondary perk (the pathfinding aspect) is already redundant to a ranger as well. As a ranger, this basically leaves you with the this-alignment_only powers, in your case the evil Outlander powers, which apparently didn't impress you very much and given my admiration for the character of Krynna I will take your word on this for the time being.

To cut to the chase however, what I'm saying is that you'll eventually come to see that the main power of Outlander -- both literally and figuratively speaking -- is that it basically grants the camouflage ability to classes which aren't supposed to have such a powerful ability in the first place due to balancing reasons, because the element of surprise -- among many other things that come with being able to chameleon -- suddenly turns these classes quite nasty, resourceful and/or dangerous when they begin to effectively combine this newfound ability with their inherent skill/spell/communes set.

Perhaps it might be an interesting idea to make your next Outlander a warrior, and see about this for yourself. I'd be very curious to see what kind of stunts you'd find yourself able to suddenly pull off with that class in Outlander, which surely enough you wouldn't be able to pull off with that same warrior class in any other of the cabals. Perhaps the bottom line simply comes down to this; Outlander needs some fewer rangers and some more of the other available classes playing the freedom_fighter/brigand/wilderness_barbarian type.

But who knows.

that Outlanders are centered around chameleon. And I easily imagine how useful it can be for druid, warrior, shaman, bard etc. I have no complains on that, really.

My main compaint in this case is the fact that two main foes of the cabal have powers (leader powers) that allow them to negate even this little advantage Outlanders have. While Outlanders have nothing to negate black sigil, or bloody shackes, for example.

As for evil outlander powers. I cannot say they are useless, no. Vandalize allowed me to carry staves of return (sometimes it took 3 days to vandalize the right item, but ok, I can live with that :P), and ignite was useful for raiding situations. The point is that loss of coins is simply not worth it. I can't count the number of times when I could survive if I could use coins.
Damn, even healer at recall would be enough, in fact. Why there is none in Holy Grove? :(

In general, I personally think that the more limitation cabal have, the better powers it should get. Which is not true in Outlander's case. Limitations on Empire are nothing special at all, while the powers are, probably, the best. How is it fair? :)

Perhaps Outlanders, and Outlanders alone, should be made to have the ability to use druid mobs in the wilds as healers. With the same restrictions in healing efficiency as those that exist between PC healers and PC druids, of course.

It's an interesting proposal, but I'll leave this to the staff for obvious reasons.

Me likes, you :)?

Because carrying stuff to barter with is just as hard as finding a healer to use...IMHO.

There is a lot of light stuff you can barter for heals, trust me. The only REAL problem with this thing is the fact that while blinded, you can't use these items :( And blindness is the real bane of Outlander ranger.

I am personally not sure how to balance it out. May be allow to give items to healer while blinded? But how to justify it IC? *shrug*

Or at least could last time I checked. However, you have to know what you're bartering and have it in your inventory, so it is still somewhat limited.

Also, yes, you can carry stuff to barter, but it's stupidly difficult compared to coin. At the hero range, if you've done any sort of gathering, using a healer is essentially free. The gold isn't the choke point as it were, but rather the time it takes to spam heal heal or to heal a disease etc before your enemies find you.

1) You have to put up with stupid people like me who are higher ranked than you making you do dumb things (also see Fortress and to a lesser extent, Battle)

2) You can get anathema'd for looting coins before the Codex. Or for giving the codex to the Healer on accident. Or for merely telling Grurk he smells like cat farts.

3) Everyone who is not in Empire (and sometimes, them to) and occasionly evil Tribunals wants you dead. You think I enjoyed trying to retrieve from the Fort to have you and Nreisshe sitting camo'd, villagers coming by the ass-load to beat on me (I will never understand that, but I digress) and the occasional goodie Tribunal.
Not to mention Scion hates you because you hate them.

So, on the scale of things, Outlanders really only have two cabals that are their enemies. Empire and Tribunal. ALL of the cabals are Empires enemies.

Play evil Outlander and we will see if you have less enemies then Empire.

1) Empire - no questions.
2) Tribunal - no questions (also means you are wanted most of them time).
3) Scions - no questions (you forgot to add this one to the enemies for some reason).
4) All the orcs, dwarves, duergars, anti-paladins, paladins, thieves, necromancers (did I miss something?). Dwarves and duergars are popular among Villagers, btw.
5) Fort - just because you are evil, I had times when Fort was attacking me before evil Tribunals.
+
6) Nexus - by decision of Ancients, if you need the details. Plus for RP reasons.

Which leaves us...
Non-digger villagers.
Heralds.
And yeah, uncaballed shifters are not your enemies :P Well, some of them. Those whom you've never spotted leveling with Empire, or Scions, or Tribunals (are there any like those at all :P?)

So honestly, if you are trying to tell me Outlanders have less enemies then Empire... How many cabals are targetting for Empire item? Fort, Scions, Village. How many cabals are targetting for Fetish? Empire, Tribunals, Scions. FYI.

I would like you to make evil Outlander mage (with proper RP) and try to find yourself a group. Be my guest. I will watch and pity you. I bet leveling the same char in Empire will be a way more easy.

As for other points. Yeah, I know the drill. I know you have to deal with idiots in Empire (no offence to anyone in particular) and lick their arses. But FYI you have to deal with Imms in Outlanders. I personally renegaded three people. Two of them by decision of Imms, and one by my own decision.

I hope it make things more clear for you.

Unfortunately for you rangers in Outlander, the most powerful skill of an outlander you already have. For all those who aren't rangers, Chameleon is a very very very nice skill. Oh yeah, and ignite is also very very very nice in its own way for certain classes, I'm sure nefla likes it a lot. Stop whining. Yes, maybe I have "the best powers in the game" but I also get jumped by numerous people and I have no way to HIDE from them. Guess what, unless you are near me, I don't even necessarily know you are in thera. I'm guessing the Justiciar Vigilance is similar in that they don't have "acute vision" but something else. As for anything else I have to say, I'm waiting for the rest of your "goodbyes."

I honestly see no point in further arguing if you really think that evil outlander, and especially evil outlander mage, has less enemies then any Imperial...

But anyways, that was not the point. The whole point is "powers vs. limitations" balance. I guess I will hear something that limited (!) non-attacking in protected cities is on par with not using coins and adamantite, lack of healer on recall, cabal hall in the middle of Nowhere, and severe limitations of available classes/races.... Ok, I certainly hope I won't. Because it would be just stupid, yeah? :P

As for ignite comment. It is far less useful for ranger then you think. For ranger the key is to stay undetected (if you want to get PKills, of course). This minor bonus from ignite is not really worth running to the city and stepping out of camo. Also, it is completely useless during defences. Some usage in raids, yes. Nothing else.

Anyways, no real point in arguing. You won't convince me that current situation is fair. Period.

It's frustrating. Dealing with it in game is frustrating. Dealing with people who don't know what they're talking about telling you it's balanced is even more frustrating. Dealing with IMMs who, generally, DO know what they're talking about telling you it's balanced is extremely frustrating. I almost deleted one of my Outlander leaders based on something that Delyn (an old Fortress Imm) said. The only solution is for you to IMM and change the mentality.

I would point out to Lyristeon, though, that he should take a look at the recent PK win tally for Imperial leaders, in particular Emperors, when he weighs whether to add a decent power for Outlander leaders.

As far as your character, I liked him. I played a fortress warrior named Adhelard and fought you a bunch of times, and you always came back for more, even when you lost, to try out a new idea or trick or something. Good job!

Short version, nothing in the game is straight up equal, but in this case it's a lot closer than you seem to think. Some commentary inline.

>I honestly see no point in further arguing if you really
>think that evil outlander, and especially evil outlander mage,
>has less enemies then any Imperial...

An evil outlander mage has more enemies than basically anyone. No question about that.

However!

What it does not have is more enemies that will raid and keep its item from it, and in some cases collaborate to do so.

I've played evil outlanders, even evil outlander mages. Sure, Fortress wanted to kill me. Sure, Battle wanted to kill me. Sure, Empire and Tribunal and orcs dwarves and duergar and mongooses and A-Ps and paladins and conjurers wanted to kill me. But you know what? Of those, only Empire and Tribunal ever raided and took the fetish from me. Every other one of those enemies I mostly fought on my terms.

Being able to hang out outside the Fortress and kill Fort when they pretty much just have to suck it up and take it is not really a disadvantage.

>But anyways, that was not the point. The whole point is
>"powers vs. limitations" balance. I guess I will hear
>something that limited (!) non-attacking in protected cities
>is on par with not using coins and adamantite, lack of healer
>on recall, cabal hall in the middle of Nowhere, and severe
>limitations of available classes/races.... Ok, I certainly
>hope I won't. Because it would be just stupid, yeah? :P

There's a lot more about being Empire that sucks that didn't make your one item long list. Give it a shot and see!

Did I imaginate those logs of Cabdru raping the entire tree?

To be fair, he also raided Empire just as much if not even more often. It's just that because Empire couldn't get Fort/Battle/whatever help to defend, the logs were a lot less obnoxious and not really worth saving. See! Point in favor of Outlander!

I'm obviously aware that Scion can theoretically raid, but in all of my Outlander playing experience, that's really all it was. Sure, maybe Scion would successfully raid once or twice in my character's lifetime, but because Scion is small, in every case we had an Outlander on who could retake the item unopposed mere minutes after losing it.

>To be fair, he also raided Empire just as much if not even
>more often. It's just that because Empire couldn't get
>Fort/Battle/whatever help to defend

Nope, they just get Tribunal. Kind of like how evil outlanders can't exactly recruit forties, and mage outlanders can't exactly recruit ragers.

>, the logs were a lot less
>obnoxious and not really worth saving. See! Point in favor
>of Outlander!

So we've established Empire/Tribunal + Occasional Scion < Village/Fort + Occasional Scion?

>I'm obviously aware that Scion can theoretically raid, but in
>all of my Outlander playing experience, that's really all it
>was. Sure, maybe Scion would successfully raid once or twice
>in my character's lifetime, but because Scion is small, in
>every case we had an Outlander on who could retake the item
>unopposed mere minutes after losing it.

In my last few outlanders the Empire rarely bothers to raid. It isn't that they can't, or don't have a reason to, it's just that Outlanders can so rarely put together a raiding party capable of taking the codex that they basically forget Outlanders exist. They're a nuisance like thieves... Deadly under the right conditions, but usually just annoying until they get unlucky and get splatted.

If anything the biggest beef I have (currently) is that Tribunal can still accomplish their cabal goals 100% (with only a very minor power hit) while every other cabal can't really accomplish their main goals (expand --> no bloodoath, kill mages --> no spellbane, wildmen --> no windwalk/camo, etc) without their item.

Tribs should lose their powers when they lose their item.

Would you still feel this way if it meant Tribunal powers would be considerably greater when they did have their item?

Let any magistrate protect any city... Give them vigilance everywhere, I don't care... that way if they have 3 higher levels they aren't all sitting in galadon because that's their city. Seantryn magistratedom is pretty silly to begin with, considering it is probably one of the lesser traveled areas overall, let alone least traveled to city. Expand them to other cities... Honestly it really isn't a problem.

I'm not sure where else you could beef up their powers/create new ones, but if their job is to enforce the laws (detection/punishment) then they should certainly lose that ability if they don't have their item, which means no vigilance (detection) and no guards (punishment).

Consider this perfectly viable tribunal role: I don't ever leave the cities. Ever. Let's pretend I magically reach hero (perhaps I hire a summoner to summon in stuff to kill). I then spend all of my time guild siting. We don't have the scales? Big deal, manacles isn't what kills lowbie criminals, guards are. I could be a transmuter and stay duo 24/7.

Also, you listed the village twice in your computation of which has a greater number of enemies, and you listed outlander which takes the codex with about the same frequency as scion.

I haven't played a high level Empire person in a while, that is true, the donation system has turned off my attempts so far. That and I keep trying to play APs, which I am not good enough to pull off. I will (just for you) play an Empire character next (instead of what I was planning) and "put my money where my mouth is".

>Let any magistrate protect any city... Give them vigilance
>everywhere, I don't care... that way if they have 3 higher
>levels they aren't all sitting in galadon because that's their
>city. Seantryn magistratedom is pretty silly to begin with,
>considering it is probably one of the lesser traveled areas
>overall, let alone least traveled to city. Expand them to
>other cities... Honestly it really isn't a problem.

Ah, no. I'm thinking more on the scale of: manacles take all your moves when applied and guards do a lot more damage, not, everyone gets to be a provincial magistrate.

Personally I think that'd be silly, but less silly than: you keep these really limited powers, AND lose all of them on a raid.

>I haven't played a high level Empire person in a while, that
>is true, the donation system has turned off my attempts so
>far. That and I keep trying to play APs, which I am not good
>enough to pull off. I will (just for you) play an Empire
>character next (instead of what I was planning) and "put my
>money where my mouth is".

Don't you think the fact that you've repeatedly pulled off an evil Outlander with some success but haven't (recently?) pulled off an Empire with some success is a little telling?

I mean, I can say I think Empire has all the cards, but if I still would really really rather play Outlander, there must be something there.

"Ah, no. I'm thinking more on the scale of: manacles take all your moves when applied and guards do a lot more damage, not, everyone gets to be a provincial magistrate."

What? Not being able to cast, magically transport or run away isn't good enough for you? I not sure where setting moves to zero isn't less effective against wanted characters than current bloody shackles.

"Personally I think that'd be silly, but less silly than: you keep these really limited powers, AND lose all of them on a raid."

It sounds less silly when you say it like this, "You get these really limited powers that are the basis of what you do as a cabal, and get to do pretty much whatever you want elsewhere, AND get to continue to effectively pursue those cabal purposes whether or not you have your item."

"Don't you think the fact that you've repeatedly pulled off an evil Outlander with some success but haven't (recently?) pulled off an Empire with some success is a little telling?"

No. I also wouldn't consider Tac or Juoul successful, though one of those wasn't my fault. I got an imperial-wannabe shaman empowered just before Khaso deleted... Had that and interest in another character not taken my time, I might be where Draktel is... who knows. It was a role I wanted to play at the time, but one that I'm not interested in now. In fact the closest I can come up with for an empire character right now is turning my current char empire for essentially no reason.

"I mean, I can say I think Empire has all the cards, but if I still would really really rather play Outlander, there must be something there."

Yea the imms are pimp and so is the RP. Empire might have all the cards PK wise, but despite my pk-first attitude, playing something fun rpwise is still something I tend to care about. PK is why I play, but interesting characters keep me going to hero and keep me there.

Only if you likewise increased all the other cabals' powers when they did have their items.

Asking the question you do suggest a belief that trib powers are weak, and so they get to keep them absent their item. I disagree with your assumption. Trib powers - being WANTED in particular - are not weak. The only power I could see allowing a trib to use when they do not have the scales would be guardcall, because presumably the barracks of guards is still there, item or not. But the rest, meaning vigilance, warrant, judge, etc., all should be unavailable until they go retrieve the item.

>Asking the question you do suggest a belief that trib powers
>are weak, and so they get to keep them absent their item.

They're not weak per se; they ARE very limited in scope. I mean, we could all make the usual jokes about how Battle would be fine with powers that only worked in their cabal and Eastern Road, but it's not really like that.

Imagine if Empire picks a war with Battle, and Battle has to go fight them without their cabal powers, and then should Battle attack any of the Empire cabal guardians, they have no powers for ANY purpose for an hour or so realtime. Welcome to just a few highlights of being a Magistrate.

>Imagine if Empire picks a war with Battle, and Battle has to
>go fight them without their cabal powers, and then should
>Battle attack any of the Empire cabal guardians, they have no
>powers for ANY purpose for an hour or so realtime. Welcome to
>just a few highlights of being a Magistrate.

The difference is that tribunals are at little disadvantage without their powers, compared to a loner. A battle character with no powers would be at a huge disadvantage. Outlander's restrictions aren't as bad as Battle's, but no coins + 98% prohibited shop use makes them distinctly weaker than a loner. An imperial without the codex can do more ore less whatever he wants. So can a tribunal without the scales, a Fortie without the orb, a scion without the scepter or a Nexan without the key.

Outlanders have second-worst gameplay restrictions out there (I'd personally take no magic gear over no coins/shops any day, but no magic use period is obviously way worse). If you were comparing all the cabals based on their item-taken prospects, outlanders would be at the bottom by a wide margin. Below loners, certainly.

And no, I'm not an outlander player.

I'm not sure how what you wrote is really relevant here. How is it an explanation for why they shouldn't lose their powers - good or bad - when they don't have their item? If nothing else it doesn't really make ic sense.

OOCwise, I also think your analogy is flawed for several reasons. As Valk mentioned below, a Tribby or Imperial losing their item doesn't really hamper them, it only means they no longer have access to their extra powers. Compare that to Villagers, and to some extent Outlanders, who are indeed reduced to below class-normal when sans item.

While it's true that trib powers are limited in the locations they may be used, they are not quite as limited as you suggest. For instance, they can only have vigilence going while in a city (other than the leaders). But when they do have it up, they see hidden characters all over the world, not just those in the city. The who list covers everyone and all they need to do to find out if someone is around is just step into a city or the spire and they have detect hidden and invis. Likewise they can put a flag on anyone, anywhere, not just in their city. And of course manacles don't crumble when the victim leaves a city. So their powers, while in some respects only useable in their cities, have a much larger range when it comes to how it affects everyone else.

More, the powers they have are very, very strong in their domains, as it should be (guards, manacles+sequester, vigilance, in particular), but at the same time they are allowed to do virtually anything they want when they are off duty. They can attack anyone they want, travel with almost anyone they want, etc. Their own time is just that, their own. This is an enmormous benefit, and they get it for free so to speak.

And lastly, the lack of any real meaning to the loss of the item means there is little if any incentive for rank and file tribunals to ever even attempt a retreival. It reduces one of the most important functions of cabals, which is to generate interaction. The current situation seems contrary to the game's stated philosophy.

In the end, I think you are looking at it from the wrong angle. I suspect I am not going to convince you, but there you have it.

Let me preface this by saying, I can tell you don't really play Empire. Conversely, I've played probably more evil Outlanders than anything else since coming back. It's not like I'm not putting my money where my mouth is. There are things that are bad and hard about it, but it's not half as bad as team serial evil Outlander describes.

>Nope, they just get Tribunal. Kind of like how evil
>outlanders can't exactly recruit forties, and mage outlanders
>can't exactly recruit ragers.

Sure you can. You just don't tell them you're evil or a mage. Yay, chameleon!

The other big point you're missing is... they don't have to. If I'm Battle and I only have one Empire guy in range and I can find out that Fort has their item, Fort doesn't need to call me. I can figure out where my enemy is going to be and act accordingly. Fort as a cabal isn't actually my enemy and there's really no conflict of interest to me bashing down an Empire guy as he wands up on Shepherd Road.

Theoretically, yes, Tribunal who don't have me in range can recruit Fort members or Battle members to come kill my retrieving evil Outlander mage. However, in practice, the frequency of these occurances are orders of magnitude apart -- the first happens at least 100 times for every 1 time the latter happens.


>So we've established Empire/Tribunal + Occasional Scion <
>Village/Fort + Occasional Scion?

No, we've established that Empire/Tribunal + Occasional Scion < Village/Fort/Outlander/Battle + Occasional Scion.

>If anything the biggest beef I have (currently) is that
>Tribunal can still accomplish their cabal goals 100% (with
>only a very minor power hit) while every other cabal can't
>really accomplish their main goals (expand --> no bloodoath,
>kill mages --> no spellbane, wildmen --> no windwalk/camo,
>etc) without their item.

If Outlander's powers were only functional in one (two if you count the Spire... but if you're cabal's already been raided, you really shouldn't) area normally, we might have a discussion here.

NT

>>Let me preface this by saying, I can tell you don't really play Empire. Conversely, I've played probably more evil Outlanders than anything else since coming back. It's not like I'm not putting my money where my mouth is. There are things that are bad and hard about it, but it's not half as bad as team serial evil Outlander describes.

I would also like to argue in favor of Evil Outlanders. It is an extraordinary cabal setup, with an extraordinary fun factor and superb opportunities for roleplay as well as battle. Are we agreed that Evil Outlanders will not be burdened with extra powers at the expense of freedom?

Oh, and.. Since you bring up the subject, were you Kazren? :p

I won't say who it was in case he DIDN'T mean to out himself.

Did I do something wrong?

OK your credibility is firmly established :) Kaz had a tough row to hoe.

And no, I don't have any beef with Kaz, more on the contrary :) He was a cool beast...

As per: severe limitations of available classes/races

By my quick count, Outlander can have 11 classes (2 of which, thief/assassin take moderate hits to join), 13 races, 3 alignments, 2 ethos.

Empire can have 12 classes (4 of which, transmuter/shifter/conjurer/invoker take moderate hits to join), 9 races (I'm counting minotaur but not lich/mummy since probably the necromancer joins Empire as a different race), 1 alignment, 1 ethos.

Outlander isn't really more restricted than Empire on that count.


And while I'm rambling on, having a cabal in the middle of nowhere is not something I would strictly call a disadvantage when your entire cabal has pathfinding and you have a guardian that throws insect swarm. (To say nothing of how the super secret extra Outlander thingy plays in.)

That I'm conviced the imms will keep telling us over and over and over again isn't broken until one day, they decide that it is broken and fix it. In the interim, refuse the play outlander. The imms are pimp, the RP is fun as ####, but the restrictions are greater than the advantages, and that isn't fun.

I was just trying to let Krynna know why EMPIRE's powers are so good.

Assuming that I'm understanding you correctly, and you believe that the challenges/hardships/rewards between Outlander v. Empire and Outlander v. Tribunal are roughly balanced, then:

Why not give Outlander Leaders a power comparable with Empire/Trib leaders? I'd forever stop beating this dead horse if an Outlander Leader got something remotely equivalent to Emperor powers (particularly piercing gaze) and Tribunal leader powers (e.g., bringing two badass mobs to retrieve, bloody shackles).

Specifically wall of thorns for goodies (It's sorta more defensive) and insects for evils with neutrals getting as yet unthought of neat power number 3.

>Assuming that I'm understanding you correctly, and you
>believe that the challenges/hardships/rewards between
>Outlander v. Empire and Outlander v. Tribunal are roughly
>balanced, then:

I don't think I'm exactly saying that, more shooting down some specific things Krynna is complaining about that are downsides of being in Outlander when, really, Empire has it just as bad in those cases.

For me, at least, it's overall harder to be Empire.

I will say that the one time I genuinely feel sorry for Outlander is when an Emperor plus a decent raiding force, usually including one or more of the council members, is raiding them. Piercing gaze, especially, is, as you say, *hard* to deal with with a decent player at the helm.

>Why not give Outlander Leaders a power comparable with
>Empire/Trib leaders?

It's not beyond the realm of possibility somewhere down the line (pay attention to that part... because if we ever do it, I don't want to read some yahoo saying I said we'd never do it), but overall I don't feel like they need it as much. And, too, there's the factor that Outlanders and Outlander leaders really do get a lot more freedom. Yeah, Outlander has restrictions and rules they can't really break, but everything else feels so much more open to me than when I've been Empire/Trib. If I'm an Outlander and want to kill someone because I can and take my hypothetical leader powers to do it, I pretty much can. Contrast that with Trib leaders who have been demoted or tossed straight out for not dismissing their guards before killing a mob they didn't even need the guards to fight.

Picture Nreisshe with insect swarm. That power, most of the time, isn't going to be used to kill the Emperor... it's going to be used to whip random newbie storm warrior walking to the Fortress 20 times for every time that happens if not more.

We've all been Outlander leader(s); I guess I just don't take the same things away from it that you, Tac, and Krynna do.

>Picture Nreisshe with insect swarm. That power, most of the
>time, isn't going to be used to kill the Emperor... it's going
>to be used to whip random newbie storm warrior walking to the
>Fortress 20 times for every time that happens if not more.

Ouch, you wound me! It's not like I spent most of my time killing newbie storm warriors, I killed a lot of newbie gnome shifters sleeping out of form in the open too!

But kidding aside, as much as I would've loved having kickass leader powers... that would've probably meant I couldn't have gone on the delightful rampages I enjoyed. Personally, I pretty much prefer it this way, if I want more restrictions I'll play another cabal or at least not a chaotic evil ranger.

...though giving the leaders a *defensive* kind of power wouldn't be so bad, something to avoid the "hey we all can see camo" nastiness of high-profile tribs and empire.

nt

>For me, at least, it's overall harder to be Empire.
>


I haven't played Empire in like four years, but I can definitely say it is MUCH easier to play a Fortress warrior than an Outlander. I don't THINK it'd be that different playing an imperial warrior, but I can't say at this point in time (I haven't played an imperial for 4 years).


>I will say that the one time I genuinely feel sorry for
>Outlander is when an Emperor plus a decent raiding force,
>usually including one or more of the council members, is
>raiding them. Piercing gaze, especially, is, as you say,
>*hard* to deal with with a decent player at the helm.
>


Bloody shackles/sequester is also a challenge, as well, with a decent player playing the right class. But, yeah, these scenarios are mainly the ones I am thinking of. And now-a-days, there's much more of a chance an Emperor-led group gunning for you than there was a few years ago. My thing is, I don't want to strip the Emperor/Sect Leaders, I'd like to give an equivalent to other Leaders.


>>Why not give Outlander Leaders a power comparable with
>>Empire/Trib leaders?
>
>It's not beyond the realm of possibility somewhere down the
>line (pay attention to that part... because if we ever do it,
>I don't want to read some yahoo saying I said we'd never do
>it), but overall I don't feel like they need it as much. And,
>too, there's the factor that Outlanders and Outlander leaders
>really do get a lot more freedom. Yeah, Outlander has
>restrictions and rules they can't really break, but everything
>else feels so much more open to me than when I've been
>Empire/Trib.


True, and there is a greater challenge to playing Outlander, which brings people back. That and there is a joy that comes with wasting Tribunals.


>If I'm an Outlander and want to kill someone
>because I can and take my hypothetical leader powers to do it,
>I pretty much can. Contrast that with Trib leaders who have
>been demoted or tossed straight out for not dismissing their
>guards before killing a mob they didn't even need the guards
>to fight.


To be fair, if an Emperor wants to kill someone because he can and take his hypothetical leader powers to do it, he pretty much can, as well.


>
>Picture Nreisshe with insect swarm. That power, most of the
>time, isn't going to be used to kill the Emperor... it's going
>to be used to whip random newbie storm warrior walking to the
>Fortress 20 times for every time that happens if not more.
>


Honestly, I never fought Nreisshe (believe me, I tried wandering around like a newbie storm warrior to draw her attention, but she never took the bait). But I can see her PK stats and she's probably totaled the most PKs since Outlander began. However: she's still well below the highest Emperor total. And if we looked at PKs/hour, I think she'd be below a few Emperors.

That being said, I see your point - more is at stake than the Outlander-Empire balance. I hope you recognize, however, that giving old-school insect swarm to a nightreaver is one extreme.


>We've all been Outlander leader(s); I guess I just don't take
>the same things away from it that you, Tac, and Krynna do.


The last time I played an Outlander was ~2 years ago, and it was my 3rd in a row - probably 2,000 hours total. Which is an insane, ridiculous, incomprehensible amount of time. I can't make a list of my take aways (I just tried). I'm not sure I'm saying the same thing as Tac or Krynna, so I can't speak to them.

On quest skills: You are not supposed to ask for quest skills. You either get them or not. That's how it works. The best way of not getting a quest skill is to ask for one. If you get one, an Imm will pick you something he thinks will fit your role. You are not supposed to get them, they are a fairly rare reward, so take a quest skill as a pleasant surprise if you get one.

As for your role, what in particular made Krynna evil that wasn't fit for neutral? The reasoning you gave is fairly apt for a neutral too. From my experience, Krynna was only mildy evil, almost neutral. She reminded me of my own reaver, Frearrir, who had pretty similar ideas. Both were unlike Nreisshe, who was clearly evil. Fre wanted to destroy all cities for rejecting him(he was exiled from Blackclaw for wanting to be a shapeshifter and the cities he travelled to treated him poorly, thus he wanted to take vengeance on them). Fre and Kryss rate pretty much the same on evilness scale, being the evil one in the tree Sunwardens agree to work with. Frearrir got along well with the elf healer Arminas and Theannian didn't have trouble working with Krynna most of the time, since she was focused on hunting defilers. Sure, we considered the mental landscape of our characters evil, but the concepts were so mildly evil in practice that we could have pulled off the characters as neutrals with slightly different flavour. One good question is: At what point Outlander extremism is so extreme that it should be considered evil?

From comments to goodbyes:

I knew Zandreya as Muug and Krynna as Theannian and liked both of your characters. Your fighting in the end was fairly conservative in East Road where I fought you with my current cobra a time or two. Not quite a ranger of Nreisshe caliber, but a formidable one never the less. Maybe I should delete my hero too and play my orc too. Vlad and some VIPs planned a devious new way of character assassination in Dio's. :P

Dur aka Theannian and Muug

I still hope someone will purchase my PBF (hey, Vlad promised it as far as I remember :)), and so you will be able to read the first chapter of the role. It is pretty self-explanatory, really. I will post it if noone purchases PBF though.

But you got it right. Krynna was actually on the edge between evil and neutrality. Neutrality is hard to define, in fact, but if you can imagine neutral char who could slay you if sure it will help her to survive and/or makes the coming of Thar-Eris closer, then she was neutral, yeah. But again, I knew chars who were neutral and still were able to do something like that.

At the same time, Krysss was pretty nice to pack and 'cubs' of the Tree. She never had any greed, and was sharing armor, preps, preps locations like candies if asked right. She was coming to help whenever she was asked to as well.

And good question about extremism, btw. Is extremism evil per se? What is the difference between terrorist and partisan? Is Luke Skywalker terrorist or rebel? Point of view is clearly defined by the point where your arse is :) And we can clearly define good or evil only in fantasy world. As George Martin wrote: The hardest thing to define in the eternal fight of Good vs. Evil, is to define what is the former and what is the latter (excuse my translation).

As for fights on Easterns. I am sorry, but I really doubt Nrei would even care to fight cobra on Easterns. That's the main difference ;)

As for orcs. I found it surprisingly entertaining to play with orc after Krynna. I mean if I could survive with evil outlander, I can surely survive with orc, damn it (even in hero range)! This is such a funny challenge!

>I still hope someone will purchase my PBF (hey, Vlad promised
>it as far as I remember :)), and so you will be able to read
>the first chapter of the role. It is pretty self-explanatory,
>really. I will post it if noone purchases PBF though.

Someone got Frearrir's PBF too. It's out there if you want to read the role. Not very evil sphere spirit thingy. It was sort of an internal darkness that didn't carry out well.

>But you got it right. Krynna was actually on the edge between
>evil and neutrality.

>Neutrality is hard to define, in fact,
>but if you can imagine neutral char who could slay you if sure
>it will help her to survive and/or makes the coming of
>Thar-Eris closer, then she was neutral, yeah.

I can. If you are goodie, all your actions should be defined as doing the morally right thing. If you are neutral you should have reasons for what you do. You should know a valid answer for the question 'why did you attack me?'. If you are evil, 'Why not?' is acceptable answer for the question neutrals need a valid answer for. But in short, actions of a neutral character are not alignment-guided. If you are very cause-driven like Outlander is, the weight of alignment diminishes in comparison. As an evil Outlander, you shouldn't PK someone when your character has a valid answer for 'Why not?' while neutral one is the one that shouldn't PK someone when he doesn't have a valid reason for 'Why?'. That's where the line goes. If you are going to be overly zealous with extremism(with tenets like 'I PK everyone who occasionally uses coins.'), then evil could probably be a better pick.

But again, I
>knew chars who were neutral and still were able to do
>something like that.
>
>At the same time, Krysss was pretty nice to pack and 'cubs' of
>the Tree. She never had any greed, and was sharing armor,
>preps, preps locations like candies if asked right. She was
>coming to help whenever she was asked to as well.

>Luke Skywalker terrorist or rebel? Point of view is clearly
>defined by the point where your arse is :) And we can clearly
>define good or evil only in fantasy world. As George Martin
>wrote: The hardest thing to define in the eternal fight of
>Good vs. Evil, is to define what is the former and what is the
>latter (excuse my translation).

The answer would be that both sides are neutral. Real world doesn't have much absolutes and good and evil can be seen as relative concepts. Neutral character could be one that has his own set of values instead of fixed ones and doesn't sit well in the extreme ends in the fixed good-evil axis of a fantasy world. But like I, you now have the power of hindsight to assess the alignment next time you try to make a char. I think that Kryss and Fre were slightly evil because we picked that alignment and tried to RP accordingly(a bit similar to the way a sphere colours decisions of a character).

>As for fights on Easterns. I am sorry, but I really doubt Nrei
>would even care to fight cobra on Easterns. That's the main
>difference ;)

Nor would I fight a ranger in the wilds since I'm too afraid of ambush and the ranger can flee;camo if things go wrong, not to mention that I don't particularly enjoy searching for a needle in haystack. Needless to say, I didn't die to either of you with any of my characters. Partially because of me being in the same side most of the time. And other part of it is the ranger needs to find someone with his pants down or shamanmanly attitude to get a kill. But anyway, you know better how to play ranger than I do. I should try one at some point too and try to find patience for the stalking kill(have I mentioned that I hate looking for people to PK but like randomly finding one).

>As for orcs. I found it surprisingly entertaining to play with
>orc after Krynna. I mean if I could survive with evil
>outlander, I can surely survive with orc, damn it (even in
>hero range)! This is such a funny challenge!

You got the sentence wrong way around. In reality, it goes: If I can survive with an orc, I can surely survive with evil Outlander. Anyone who doesn't have a valid reason to PK you as an Outlander, such as uncaballed gnomes, will be after you as an orc in hero range unless you have made friends with them(and the orc fun is in bashing down any random bystander in blind rage. When they ask for a reason, you can just say something like 'Murgh kill.' or demand that they tell you the answer since you didn't know it yourself). The concept of Orc tennis may reveal itself to you, but that kind of adrenaline can be kind of fun. But if you think that you'll reach the survivability of a ranger, you have mistaken. Good luck, try to get the chief spot.

Had no idea you were a newbie, I thought you were tough as hell. Surprised me when you came to raid the Palace solo that one time, even so it took a great deal of luck ofr me to seal the kill. You always, always kept me on my toes, our last fight in the volcano scared the crap out of me. If you had hit your first bearcharge, I'd have been dead.

Emperor powers are good, and they don't completely negate your whole skillset, but they do help. I think you'd be a fan of that, since it encourages those particular people to fight in your turf, instead of always waiting for you to come fight on theirs.

Good luck with your next!

Yep, I liked you a lot. May be even too much.
That one time I've managed to seal the kill on you in the Tree was a real achievement in my book, heh. Too bad you didn't come for Fetish a bit more often with me online ;)

And yeah, in Volcano that was some absolutely arsish luck on my part. Missed two bearcharges in a row, damn it. I thought you are a corpse after you failed recall. Damn it.

And about that raid on Palace. That was not my initiative. I knew I am dead the moment sleep landed :( IC I felt real good after you lost the weapon with my soul.

Anyways, for some reason I thought I will kick the bucket before me. Could I be more wrong :) Keep rolling.

Man, Shamanman, if it was Krynna, she got you so good because I was pissed that you kept having that SHADOWY figure talk you up.

Krynna, it was a shame we only got to interact very sparingly (if it was you who I told, then damn well done for killing that uppity bard bitch :)) because I thought you were played exactly the way I would have played an evil felar ranger in Outlander. Cautious to a point, but insanely deadly when you wanted to.

I'm a n00b too, so again, kudos.

Heh, I really enjoyed this little conflicts inside Empire. Made my life a bit easier. I think it was a good RP on your part, and watching this poor bard decreased in ranks after each death was also satisfying.

Yep, too bad we didn't have more interactions.

IC, owed you quite a bit of payback, and felt a little cheated that you left before I could get my chance. You were a tough foe, and definitely knew how to pick and choose your battles. OOC, it ticked me off that time you destroyed all of my crap gear because I finally landed a blackjack and took two items from you while you slept. This was after you taking me down in snares maybe 15-20 times over my life. Anyway, you were an evil bastard who kept me on my toes and always made things interesting.

Anyway, you were quite an asset to the outlanders. I don't think they will be quite the same without you, and I know you just made my life a heck of a lot easier. Good luck if you decide to make another try in the future.

Well, I would like to start from excuses for spam killing you in some situations. I honestly tried to avoid it, but, as you hopefully, understand, if you come to strike the Huntress, you don't leave too much choice to Nightreaver. I am honestly sorry for that, but, on the bright side, as you could see later on, these kills were mostly due to the fact that you were doing something wrong. Later, when you learned to use your guards properly, it became insanely hard to seal the kill. I stil don't understand how you quaffed after bearcharge (shouldn't it initiate the combat?) but ok. I guess it is by design (or not? Imm comment?)

As for looting. I didn't not mention it in the first part of goodbyes, but I will mention it for you. I FREAKING HATE THIEVES! I am one of those players who think they all should catch some disease and die, die, die, die! Fast and painful! YARR! Basically, after anyone took anything from my pockets and didn't return those things that I really needed, he could be sure he will be full looted next time. And especially it was the case when I was freaking baby-sitting his corpse all the times before. That is just how I treat thieves, sorry. Nothing personal in this case.

On a side note, you was so mad at me (and for good reasons), that I would expect to be full looted in either case if I ever fell :) I would not be surprised even a bit, honestly.

As for choosing the time. I honestly was snickering when you tried to get me to roads. I am a bit sorry here, but after meeting with Valryn a couple of times (he will get a honorable mention in my goodbyes, yeah), there was no freaking way I will ever step on road knowing that binder is there. It is simply a stupid thing to do. No way. Never.

As for my role in Outlanders. Thanks for the kind words, and I am really happy someone thinks the same way I do here. There was a time when I was completely alone in cabal. And still was having a lot of fun. I really enjoyed leader position as it really allowed me to inspire and lead people. And I honestly think I did a good job in that. We will see what others say though.