Wed Mar 15 21:57:07 2006

At 2 o'clock AM, Day of the Moon, 7th of the Month of the Dragon
on the Theran calendar Silvellien perished, never to return.

Race:	half-elf
Class:	warrior
Level:	50
Alignment:	Good
Ethos:	Chaotic
Cabal:	FORTRESS, the Fortress of Light
Age:	101
Hours:	167

Bleh. Disconnected in Fortress for 5 minutes, and when my connection returns I'm con-dead. Ugh.

First dagger spec. That is a damned hard spec to pk with under rank 40 or so, when you don't have most of your skills mastered. I absolutely hated my lowbie ranks, especially mastering dagger skills, but when I hit hero and got promoted to maran (much to my incredible surprise) I was able to become immune to most non-bash non-gank deaths, and cabal wars are a lot of fun despite the gank/full looting that comes with it by default. I think I lost 15 con before I hit hero, similar to a certain thief of mine named Dinian, but finding the time to hit hero is difficult, seeing my preferred login times would only be for an hour or so at most. I never mastered Underhand or Hamstring, can't eyejab skeletons so I never mastered that either, maybe there's a reason. What I'm trying to say is: I suck with dagger/flail. But I had to try it, eh?

Enigma and Dance as legacies was alright, if uncreative, but I should have definitely gone balance or maelstrom instead of dance. Enigma got me out of some tight situations, but blind was crippling and I was always too lazy to update my aliases with current wields, so I would often have to cycle through my weapons before finding the one I wanted, whereas with dance I would have had far more versatility and far less weapon juggling.

On an RP level Silvellien was a disappointment to me - I wrote an (in my opinion) absolutely kick-ass role but I could never play it out fully, most probably due to my own ineptness. Relationships have always been key in keeping my interest focused onto a character, and I simply wasn't able to get enough into it this time. I don't like implementing character roles too early - I feel as though if I choose a role early on and play it to the hilt, I can't change it, add personality quirks and the custom touch that makes every character different. I think next time I'm going to wait until I have a much firmer grasp of the character before entering it in.

I feel as though my character simply wasn't tough enough to take the punishment that he had to in order to get off his crippling maledictive specs. Villager dagger specs work well, and dagger users who know how to prep can kick ass. Unfortunately, I fit into neither of those categories.

Other random comments: 97% lash misses four times in a row, choke is an incredibly useful skill, solo-defending against four the Fortress is a waste of time for a character who isn't immune to summoning, Watcher is much stronger now but damned useless as an ally, I'd be much more afraid of the archmage in an even raid situation. All the watcher does is tank and throw out the occasional strong one-person spell, the archmage casts a spell every single round from quite a devastating arsenal.

Raiding the palace itself isn't a big deal, but centurions absolutely screw everything up in an even raid situation. Exit blocking is really evil and damn, but they can get 1/4th my health off easily at hero range, let alone when I'm getting bashed to death. Also, it renders tigerclaw and hurl throat useless for ninja-ing retrievals - whats the point? You aren't going to silence all four centurions and the vanquisher on the first try, why bother?

Onto goodbyes -

Saiydee - I was playing hard to get at first, didja notice? I enjoyed my interactions with you, but I'm sorry, I never really could get into it.

Alenysi + Kaeciln - you two were always together. I liked you both, despite what others had to say, and if it weren't for you guys I woulda never made hero.

-Fortress- (My maran mantle of fire didn't protect me against the big mob that shoots fire who oblited and then unspeaked me in the middle of my lag from stabbing. I guess its level based, but I sure as hell wasn't expecting that as my second to last death!)

Saroiya - About freaking time you made Maran, I was going to write up a recommendation for you. Good job with the law character, even though Silvellien completely disagreed with your scruples against attacking within cities - Silvellien would have tried to avoid a warrant, but if he saw an opportunity to do some damage to evil without getting warranted, he'd definitely take it. You were the only other Fortressite on a lot of times, and I enjoyed traveling and kicking ass with you.

Adhelard - The warrior who could actually *do* something alone. We made Maran together, good times, eh?

Artageia - Where'd ya go?

Haageran - Tough as nails, but I never really got to know your character. Thanks for all the help, though.

Mirryl - Great acolyte, thanks for all your help.

Tarseti - I said it all in your goodbyes, but damn, we were both new as hell to daggers. Only other guy who was a ghost as much as I was. Much <3.

Sorry about the rest of the Fortress, reply and I'll respond, its been awhile.

To all frustrated fortie applicants: Keep on trucking, you'll get in eventually. I sympathize like all hell, and I tried to interview as many of you as I could at lower con, but I was often busy gathering gold and wands. With enigma I'd go through like 15 potions of return an hour. Slight exaggeration, but still, you know how it goes.

-Empire- (Ganking and full-looting is such a b... well, methinks all empire under hero range should be banned from looting hero corpses. Pfft. Then again, I've seen some similar behavior from goodies, so I guess it goes both ways and I just only see one perspective)

Gharakha - always uber-decked and ready to bash me down. I couldn't do anything against you, and every single time I forgot to quaff a reduce I got pwned. On the other hand, I was really amused that time when you entwined me and I just simply quaffed. Enigma makes me happy for it gives me moments like that.

Grunlath - You and Gharakha are the ones who I distinctly recall being on all the time despite some terrible odds and you *always* came to defend, no matter how bad the odds. And I really hate rot, did I mention that to you? I think I did =P Much respect.

Ekebe - You were Gharakha except less scary. Exact same tactics, though.

-Scions and Random Other Enemies- (My rivalries here kept me going)

Ilthuria - Skilled and deadly. Spamming lash on you in wilderness areas doesn't always work, with autosneak and a fast hide you can't get through my laggy lash spam and assassinate me anyway. If I got you entwined, though... sigh.

Yetesip - I had a lot of fun in our fights.

Nreisshe - Go away. I was never ready for you, and you always played it smart. One ambush took away 500 out of my 800 hp total. Why did I reflexively type flee and run straight into your snare? I will never know. I have enigma, I can quaff in combat, but nooo, I'd rather flee and get caught in your snare. Bleh.

Morasfenmire - I couldn't do anything against a ram and shark, and when I could you would just walk away and camo. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do against you, but after the last two or three deaths I had an automatic trigger on whenever I was afk in a wilderness area for more than two minutes - whenever the text grizzled ram appeared on the screen I would quaff automatically.

Anyone I forgot, post and I'll respond. Later.

>-Fortress- (My maran mantle of fire didn't protect me against
>the big mob that shoots fire who oblited and then unspeaked me
>in the middle of my lag from stabbing. I guess its level
>based, but I sure as hell wasn't expecting that as my second
>to last death!)

That's because of what its alignment is, or rather, what it isn't.

Obviously, the alignment necessity thing is to make sure
that Maran invokers don't become the new, fancy healers
for the fort, charring their dear friends to give them
some health. You immortals have yet to hear of complaints
of OOC buddies playing evils and intentionally nova'ing
to heal Marans they normally wouldn't for OOC reasons?

While that sounds a little far fetched, hey, I'm sure
more insidious cheating has happened, like where A attacks
Lich while A's buddy spam-rescues said Lich so it has
command denial (which isn't possible now, thanks!)

So, has it happened yet?
- Runaktla

>While that sounds a little far fetched, hey, I'm sure
>more insidious cheating has happened, like where A attacks
>Lich while A's buddy spam-rescues said Lich so it has
>command denial (which isn't possible now, thanks!)

My dislike for said player aside, I thought the rescue tactic was a fantastic piece of ingenuity that should have been rewarded rather than spurned.

My last words on the subject here, as I don't want to hijack this guy's good-bye thread.

My dislike for said player aside, I thought the rescue tactic was a fantastic piece of ingenuity that should have been rewarded rather than spurned.

My last words on the subject here, as I don't want to hijack this guy's good-bye thread.

It still utterly boggles me that anyone thinks that it was remotely legitimate.

Nonetheless, if anyone is unclear as to whether something is or isn't bug abuse, I recommend praying first and getting a definitive answer. Otherwise, be forewarned that bug abuse, especially bug abuse designed to screw over another player, is a serious rules violation, and deletion of the offending character is on the low end of the scale of consequences.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

nt

That thieves robbed banks of millions in Argentina or wherever. It was still illegal. If Arolin and crew had put that creativity to good use, imagine the possibilities rather then the fallout.

Legitimate or not they didn't code it to work that way. You guys did.


Cheers.
Jhyrb.

Waaah waaah waaah... did they screw with your instakill
power combo by fixing a bug you liked?

*sigh*

Immortal 1: Yeah, so, I got a weekend to spare, maybe I
should work on an alternate-xp quest project so players are
not constantly droning through mind-numbing, repetitious
mob-killing in order to gain levels?

Immortal 2: I'm sorry Bob, unfortunately for the rest of
the year you're slated for working on making sure every
single skill or spell we've ever designed is airtight so
complete and utter jerkoffs can't abuse it in any imaginable
way, shape or form.

- Runaktla

Immortal 2: I'm sorry Bob, unfortunately for the rest of
the year you're slated for working on making sure every
single skill or spell we've ever designed is airtight so
complete and utter jerkoffs can't abuse it in any imaginable
way, shape or form.

We all spend significant time doing stuff like this, unfortunately. Sometimes it's patching bugs, childproofing functions, or looking through crash records to prevent future crashes. Sometimes it's catching cheaters, or poring over the real or invented accusations of cheating we receive through various channels. No one imms in order to do any of that, but it's part of the deal you sign up for, and it's always something we mention to applicants to the staff.

It changes the design process as well. There are a lot of things that get suggested on these forums (customizable echoes for doing X is a common one) that get shot down on day 1 simply because childproofing it and/or policing for jerks that misuse it isn't worth our time. In a different MUD culture, this wouldn't be the case, but we always seem to have a sufficient population of "griefers", this thread included.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

It wasn't a bug, it's how the skill was coded and the immortals actually said in the past that the lag associated to that skill was by DESIGN. I'm not the one that abused the skill so chill out there tough guy. The Immortals knew long ago that the possibility for this happening was there, they chose to ignore it. This was definitely not a bug, a bug is when something isn't working as it's supposed to. The skill worked exactly how it was supposed to but that's the smuggers fault! If you tell me there's a way to affect PK by spamming the hug social then you better be ready to see me roll people down spamming hug. Don't hate the player, hate the game biyatch. Without Arolin rescue would still have that obscene lag associated to it. Think of the people he's saved by having the rescue lag lowered? We should make an Arolin holiday!


Cheers.
Jhyrb.

Edit: I have no grudges against the immstaff, nothing but love over here.

The idea was cute and illegal at the same time.
And this trick was fixed really quickly. While Arolin is a bad dude I would give him a credit for fixing that thing. Should he use it againt other (unnoticable) character or don't use at all it would take much longer to change rescue.

I wish you were that quick and aggressive at fixing one particular poison thief.

Since I got denied over the incident I will comment again.

We were sick of moron groupmates rescuing us during levelling and putting our characters' lives at risk. We raised this issue on more than one occasion with the staff, clearly explaining how rescue worked and why it was wrong. They replied on each occasion that it was fine and by design. The rescue kill was our way of forcing the issue. Ironically, a 'bug' stopped us from achieving exactly what we wanted, but we got the message across and everyone is better for it.

For those interested, the steps involved in carrying out the flawless kill;

a) Master rescue (it never failed at 100%)
b) Pick the best target (Scion lich), join Scion.
c) Lure him to the perfect spot to kill him (skirmish amongst ourselves a bit with him within earshot, walk to a flying room so his pets don't come, be fighting when he arrives in the room)
d) Wield a nightmare blade, the invoker has oozeshield. Accept fireshield prior to fighting.
e) Spam rescue, invoker spams fireball. In theory, the rescuer will be immune to the fireball, the invoker immune to the nightmare blade. In reality, the warrior did get hit by the fireballs despite fireshield. Bummer.

Is there any evidence to support your allegation that you pointed this out to the staff repeatedly and they told you it was fine 'as-is'?

If there is, I'd be pissed at those immortals who thought it was fine until a high-profile character had to suffer. To me that seems to scream selective enforcement of rules that apply TO ALL PLAYERS.
Would it have been changed and the offending SMUGgers been denied if they had done this same thing to a Josiah character, or a Hastur character around mid-30's, rather then a lich and a high-profile Herald? Or, as I'd like to hope, would it have been changed eventually, but was forced to be done quicker because of this incident? Perhaps an immortal can enlighten us here.

That said. You deserved to get banned over this. You exploited a game design flaw in a way not intended to be used. Yes, maybe you 'showed' them here because rescue could be exploited, but it does not mean its ok to do so inside the rules of the game.

P.S. I liked Silvellien the character who I apologize to posting off-topic on their battlefield thread.

I doubt the staff would deny receiving requests for rescue to be modified prior to this trick being pulled, I also doubt anyone is anal enough to have any evidence of this on the off chance this topic is brought up three years down the track.

I won't apologise for doing what we did, I mean in hindsight the only innocent to suffer was Iunna and I'm pretty sure 1/3 didn't impact an Eternal Star sitter. I have always accepted the punishment and don't believe there was any argument from me over what happened to my character at the time, my fellow smugger probably found it harder to swallow though. Maybe we didn't go about it the right way, but we got the desired result.

Oh, and we definitely 'showed' them but it was a short lived victory because they definitely 'showed' us very quickly afterwards.

I highly doubt the only reason it was done was as a moral standpoint to get something cheap fixed. I'm sure it was as a "Lets whack a lich easily" type of thing, with Iunna being a test run.

Still, you are correct in that it was somewhat well known this was abusable and its better that it was fixed. I don't think it was particularly clever, since, again, a lot of people knew about it and just didn't abuse it. Still, it needed to be changed and the imms weren't going to change it unless someone abused it, so I can see your logic in that. See my post about removing "Hit any key" abuse. That won't be removed until someone uses it to kill someone high profile. I still don't advocate doing it.

I recall thinking about it at one of the million times
I had an ally rescue me, thinking it was helping, but instead
causing me to die due to an inability to flee. This happened
enough times, trust me, it was thought of by me and probably
several others way long ago.

Though I cheated in minor ways long, long ago (late
90's maybe) I don't do it anymore, and it wasn't something
that was as blatantly screwed up as what they tried to do
to the lich with rescue. That is one hundred percent an
exploitation of a former function of rescue in a manner
that it -clearly- wasn't intended to be used in. Personally
I was boggled as to why rescue had a lag on the part of the
rescuee for the longest time, but it sure isn't something
that should have been exploited.

Using rescue to give command denial ranks up with spam telling
to disorientate someone while he's fighting your buddy. Well,
I take that back, at least with spam telling you can use 'quiet'
to stop it from happening. There is no way to avoid that misuse
of rescue.

- Runaktla

Norescue. Think angels for conjurers, for a good reason why to have it on.

>My dislike for said player aside, I thought the rescue tactic
>was a fantastic piece of ingenuity that should have been
>rewarded rather than spurned.

Here's the acid test for you. If I (or Cador, or Valg, or whoever) killed you that way, would you still think it was ingenious? Would you still think it deserved a reward?

Just curious.

People go ballistic over "cheap" deaths and send us angry emails and logs about every couple weeks. Sometimes it's a legitimate concern, sometimes it's not. It's been a long time since I've seen anything remotely as lame as the spam-rescue thing, though. The current culture, not that it's perfect, seems to have grown a little since then, IMO.

Chalk me up under "If it happened to them, they'd have the email in the staff's inbox within 15 minutes."

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

The first example that comes to mind are offensive shifters fleeing and coming back repeatedly when ranking or killing something to get a bunch of autoassist rounds. IC, this makes even less sense to me than the rescue thing, to see a guy repeatedly take off running away, because it helps him fight better. Really, this could go in the same box as the rescue thing, as it's kind of along the same lines, but it's all what the IMM's decide to crack down on. I'm not saying it was wrong to crack down on the rescue bug, only that there is a lot more gray area than it would appear on the surface.

You have more faith in people than I, I believe the current codeset of CF just isn't as allowing of cheap crap like that.

Kudos for that.

And I don't think it was ingenious, personally. It never even crossed my mind. I remember one time, prior to nogive, I was contemplating abusing giving to a person in order to prevent means of fleeing in a specific situation. However, a more veteran player pointed out that such wasn't the intention of that ability, and I agreed. And in regards to rescue, that was even worse. Regardless, people will do what works, so, the only answer is to make it not work and the reason why we don't see stunts like this is because players don't know about the abusable things that still exist because they aren't as obvious as the rescue thing if they even still exist.

If they had done it, maybe it wouldn't of been fixed. We can play the hypothetical game all day. Not throwing anything in your faces but I just think that's a poor argument.


Cheers.
Jhyrb.

Go away? But... but... all I ever wanted was love and understanding!

And yeah, in that fight you had pretty bad luck, most of the time people choose the exit that *isn't* trapped when they flee, and quaffing would've made me even more sad than fleeing the right way. Real hit or miss sometimes, I tell ya. And the other time(s) I did find you someplace suitable, you didn't get so unlucky!

As the saying goes... good luck with the next.

>Adhelard - The warrior who could actually *do* something
>alone. We made Maran together, good times, eh?
>

We both made Maran after LOSING a battle. :) Anyway, re: your comments, you had guts and weren't afraid to take on imperials alone when you easily could have ganged them, and for that you deserve much respect. Warriors are a tough class to enjoy in general. I think players with your attitude should try out shamans. IMO they're tough-as-nails and ideal for people who like the challenge of fighting solo.

Good luck with the next --

Lots of fun, you came across as sometimes unskilled in combat, but with massive heart, and enough ability that I didn't mind running away like the cowardly orc I am.

You dished it out, and took what beatings I could give you well, and I just plain avoided you once you had whips. Entwine is a physical class' nightmare if you don't think you can win...which often I didn't expect. You never complained about a gank beat-down when it's what I had to do. Loved the fights when I had a chance, and hope to see you again soon. You're a great benefit to the game, though I'd love to see you branch out towards the dark side sometime....course, maybe that's just because I'm tired of fighting you. :)

Good job with this character - I could tell you weren't as into the RP as you were with Dinian. Probably trying to do something totally different than Dinian, but you mostly just seemed quiet to me. I can tell you're absolutely learning more and more as you go through these characters - best of luck on your next. :)

Honestly, I felt really bad for you. As far as not interacting with me much, it was just times fault. I'm almost certain that we play mutually exclusive times (except when I don't work and mud throughout the entire night). Most of the time when you logged on I was preparing to log out. Add to that the fact that your playing time is near smack in the middle of team empires, and it makes for a rough time. This is especially true when there aren't many allies around as it seemed to be at that time.

Other than that, you had heart. I remember interviewing you with Dravor. You did well, particularly since I was trying to make you struggle. You also stuck it out against poor odds, which says something.

Come back in some form or another. You're an asset to the community and I look forward to your next.

Haageran

Too bad to see you go. I know what you mean, about time! I think the imms just dont like me. Anyway it's looking like rough times ahead for the Fort and we're certainly going to miss you.

well damn just when I found a chick I thought you'd dig. Ah well. See you again soon in the feilds.

It was fun interacting with you on occasion. Hope you make another and maybe join the dark side or a side other than the Fortress. Hardest Cabal to get a feel for and remain alive in.

Good luck with your next.

PS Shame to see your goodbye thread hijacked.