Fri Jan 20 09:14:02 2006

At 6 o'clock AM, Day of Freedom, 18th of the Month of the Heat
on the Theran calendar Dinian perished, never to return.

Race:	human
Class:	thief
Level:	47
Alignment:	Good
Ethos:	Chaotic
Cabal:	FORTRESS, the Fortress of Light
Age:	42
Hours:	179

Uh, you were gutsy. Well played -- it went my way in our confrontations, but it easily could have been the other way around. I certainly spent more time in the wilderness when I knew you were roaming around with your blackjack.

Thanks for helping me out. This is my first char ever and I was lucky to find helpful ones such as you .
Good luck in the future.
PS my Boyfriend plays Loved you as Feichin.

strike that last line as Blig doing two at once
haha

7 con at 37! =)

I had no idea there was anyone dying more than me.

I have to echo Austira, I heard you talking about gear a lot, but I can understand why now.

I generaly only concern myself with it, if I've just lost it, and then 99% of the time only check to see if it's left AFTER I've regeared.

I want to say I'm sorry for fleeing out on you at the Lion. You had fled and I'd already hit flee just as I noticed you were back. I felt crappy about that.

On a tactical note, a few times you would make one or two word statments that were so generic that it was hard to understand your meaning. I can't recall the details, but you said something once that had me doubling back along Eastern in the wrong way with Bundletorff an Nivek out and about. But the very biggest thing you were doing that cause me to pull my hair was telling the guy you were LEADING where a hidden thief was, when all you have to do, is run up and nod/point/dance/ whatever o they know to fire off a spell. In a game were fractions of seconds count, that could of matter a lot. In the end though you managed to get your man so that's what counts.

In the end I am sorry you are gone, there never was a time I didn't enjoy having you around. You were always enjoyable to interact with. It would appear Assassins and thieves became a bigger threat again!

P.S. I have to look at the keyboard to type, =P, that's why I said I wasn't ready with the Lion, I was botching sups and all kinda other things when the dang thing woke up!

I did make some tactical mistakes. Blackjacked could mean either *I* was or I had just *done* it. Stuff like that. And, uh, I was noob about the leading thing. Forgive me. I'm just so used to operating as an uninvolved scout from my earlier ranks that it became kinda a habit.

About the gear - I come from a uberly focused MMORPG world. Better gear has always been key, even though in CF I'm slowly coming to realize that prep whoring is usually better than gear whoring. I've played dozens of games online before meeting CF, and in those games the appropriate gear would often make the difference between life and death. So its kind of a habit. I'm also willing to say that I never got a solo kill without having two weapons about average 23 or vuln exploiting properties - I geared mostly for damage, and was pretty whorish about it. Sorry.

I just think of proper gear as essential to my characters. Its a habit I can't break. I watch people with fifteen minute regear outfits with haste stoneskin shield kick the #### out of hellset average 28 wielders, but I deny the truth and prioritize gear. Heh. I'm delusional like that.

However, I will note that the two people who made comments about my gear are playing two of the classes which need it least =P

I gear for saves though and I know where to get -20 saves in a short while.

I will almost allways take saves over damage.

I never prep beyond fly or reduce, perhaps stoneskin.

Those three are supper easy to get.

For thieves the trick is to bide your time. Blackjack, if you miss, follow at a distance and get them again afte a bit.

Go for hit points and saves. Because if you miss that BJ on a Necro or A-P.. Zzzzzzzz

"On a tactical note, a few times you would make one or two word statments that were so generic that it was hard to understand your meaning. I can't recall the details, but you said something once that had me doubling back along Eastern in the wrong way with Bundletorff an Nivek out and about."

Despite the similarity in our names, I am not Nivult.

Nivek

asf

So much to say, so little time.

Let me say, first of all, that I never expected to hit hero with him. My login times were pretty regular, but a lot of the time I only had an hour or so here and there. Therefore, I never had the time to rank a lot past thirty or so, which meant that I lost most of my con pking around there. I'm sure I looked like a rank-sitter to a lot of people, but the fact remains that it is extremely difficult to get a good ranking party together and get any worthwhile experience within my periodical hour or so online after rank thirty or so. I lost the great majority of my con pking in the thirties.

Dinian's personality was a concept I based off of my desire to play a charming rogue. I also noticed, from my previous character, Bliggy, that the Fortress generally lacks a lot of detect hidden in the hero range. I had originally intended to use him to counter the huge disparity of the Imperial Shadows, but I just never had enough time to push him to hero. He liked flirting with women, not because he was a lecher, but because it entertained him. OOC, it was more in the nature of something to do while waiting for a bunch of imperials in my range to log on =P. My ultimate goal with this character was to charm one of the evil-aligned females into joining the Fort. Didn't really think it was going to happen, though. Flirting is weird, online, because you *know* that half the people you are flirting with are really male.

Overall commentary - Thieves are potentially very strong, but only in certain situations with certain things mastered. I spent a lot of time exploring the boundaries of my pk ability at lower levels, and came to the conclusion that a thief couldn't solo a melee-based fly without a lot of luck. I'm sure I seemed pretty suicidal to any Imms who were watching me. The thief is the weakest of the melee classes, as I found out (to my very great annoyance), you will have a *lot* of trouble trying to kill someone else without extensive prep knowledge. If I had knowledge of a _single_ slow scroll and a _single_ haste prep, I would have been so much more effective. Near hero, I died in one pummel while sparring in the brawling room of the inn. Waste of con. Heh.

Another point to make about thieves is that if you don't master blackjack early on you'll die. A lot. If you PK a bunch, you'll come into a lot of situations where if you miss the blackjack, you are probably dead. 600 hp at hero isn't easy. Of course, if you didn't waste all your trains on con at lower levels, you'll probably have more than that what I did, but still, nothing sucks more than knowing if your blackjack misses you are dead. I still wish I mastered cheap shot, but damn, that skill is annoying to master. All my gains on it were from leveling. Heh.

I was pretty ganky. Most of the kills I was a part of were ganks. I'm not proud of it, but playing an effective thief who can kill other melee classes usually means you need lotsa support or be especially talented at prepwhoring. Because I never had the patience nor the opportunity to learn any haste preps I could have gotten to alone (or with a group, for that matter), my effectiveness was much limited. One aspect of CF I don't like is how prepping is so very important. Bleh.

Also note that the thief is really poor in solo fights, making it a *bad* choice to retrieve solo against the Empire. Getting past a pair of hero Centurions is near impossible solo at level 40 without lotsa healing items, let alone the fact that there are usually two pairs of them and a vanquisher you gotta kill, along with whatever defenders the Empire has/calls in. Bleh. Nerf Cents please.

Now, onto the goodbyes.

Draeven - already said my goodbyes, but I'll mention you here anyway =P

Fortress - I envisioned Dinian as sort of a scout for the Fortress, which in a way he was, but I was kinda hoping to be of more use at the hero range. I died too fast. Sorry =(

Grysh - Good job on marshall. Didn't have much time for talking, between your duties as leader and the PK, but you were damned tough and fun to have around.

Alriac - You play an extremely strong combination. With enigma, its damned hard to kill you and with greeting, its damned easy for you to kill others. You tend to forget that others in the Fort are not so tough. But chastising you about that would have been out of role. On the other hand, you were beastly and great to have around.

Art - You were on at the same times I was. I think we made a good team, though I was a tiny bit suicidal at times. Just a tiny bit. Heh =P

Crysseara - A lotta fun to interact with. You played to Dinian's personality and rolled with it. Wish your times were a bit earlier, but ah well, too late now.

Austira - Your befuddled incomprehension cracked me up more than once, and you were a good Acolyte.

Razhalia - Attentive and thoughtful and considerate. But suicidal. Aside from the suicidal part, you were a great acolyte. Rejecting my flattery, however, is a no-no =P

Sciurus - I am *NOT* din-din. I will not dress up in a chicken suit. And even though you *tried* to be a stuffy paladin, IT DINN'T WORK! BWA HA HA HA! Get it? No?

I'm running outta time, so I'll cut it short here and just say post and I'll respond.

Heralds: I felt part-herald some of the time. I had a lotta fun with you guys, especially Sharwyn, Mav, and Therethine. Great job guys, and much love.

Enemies: Empire and Tribunals. Pfft. Tribunals are the bane of my existence. Nivult's blackjack is a close second. I am completely weirded out at how I could harm Grunlath, Duergar Shaman Emperor, while Dulmisa, Human Assassin Shadow Lord, was out of my range. Tribunals should definitely be nerfed.

I avoided evil-aligns in the village. Why? Because every single damned one of you could see me. Getting repeatedly two-rounded by Duergar warriors gets old after awhile, and I'm *not* going to be fighting a bloodthirsting dam reduxed thug path (Bund). Sorry about the disappointment, but nowhere in the Fort does it say I'm required to be suicidal. Heh.

Duergar shaman got a 250 exp penalty which acummulates too Xamount of xp at hero. Human assassin has 300 exp penalty, which acummulates too more amount of xp at hero. Con death is the way to go, then you get a chance to learn the ropes, hopefully you learned something from most of your deaths and can use it in the future, btw, you should be happy you weren't in my range, cause I'd take you to town :P.

I'd have blackjacked you, stolen all your stuff, and then called for help. Alone, yeah, you'd kick the #### outta me.

I thought shaman empowered got 200 exp penalty + duergar racial exp. My mistake.

- Getting past a pair of hero Centurions is near impossible solo at level 40 without lotsa healing items, let alone the fact that there are usually two pairs of them and a vanquisher you gotta kill, along with whatever defenders the Empire has/calls in. Bleh. Nerf Cents please.

Actually, I think thief is a pretty good choice to retrieve solo if there are Centurions on the way. You've got a skill that aids you in getting through Centurions in mere seconds. Anyone (except anathema) can get through them quickly, but I personally think it's easier for a thief.

Eh?

You mean blackjack?

I'm pretty sure knocked out centurions still block the way.

Its the same with guildguards - if you blackjack them, they still block you from going inside the guild, saying 'You are not allowed to go in there' (or whatever) even though technically they're knocked out.

nt

Well, seeing that I've had afew followers of yours and played many an Imperial in my day, I must respectfully give you a hard time on this one.

yes..thieves have a great skill in steal which can help you get through Centurions, but for an Imm who encourages great roleplay and for a mud that encourages it, your response was kinda trite.

We all know that a thief or anyone else who is at war with Empire shouldn't be giving Empire money in order to get through centurions. This is my opinion of course, but I think it holds true for most people. How guilty would I feel IRL if I gave money to something I hated in order to get back at it? I could give examples, but I'm sure my opinions are different than most peoples when it comes to certain IRL things, and I don't want to open that door. :)

Anyway, for a Fort thief to pay centurions, I'd boot him if I was his leader or Imm.

Aaron

Can Khas explain what he meant by that suggestion?

Because I can't see a difference between, say, an Outlander warrior paying Centurions to retrieve the fetish vs. that same warrior bartering with Keiiah to get some key potions to retrieve the fetish (using Bliden as an example). Keiiah actually might be the less harmful approach.

Mind elaborating on whether the various cabal Imms would actually support this take on roleplay, Khas? Because I'm genuinely curious.

Scam Artists abound. What's to say a good fellow can't scam a bad fellow?

Outlanders and coin.. that's different and I'd agree.

Paying your way past ISN'T scamming, you're actually paying them. It's not like writing a bad check to someone you don't like, snickering thinking about the look on their faces when they try to cash it. You're actually paying your sworn enemy, and I can't think of ANY goodie role that would make this an acceptable thing to do with someone you are at war with.

I've got zero beef with Khas, never have, but if he thinks the Fort imms would see a goodie paying cents to get by and NOT give the guy a smacking down then I think maybe...Well I don't know WHAT to think because I just don't see that happening.

is. See?

>I've got zero beef with Khas, never have, but if he thinks the
>Fort imms would see a goodie paying cents to get by and NOT
>give the guy a smacking down then I think maybe...Well I don't
>know WHAT to think because I just don't see that happening.

I don't myself know what Khas is talking about.

That said, I could see a good thief paying Cents on the way in to kill someone or raid, fully intending to turn around and kill them on the way out. That's a little dirty and it's not something a paladin or good shaman should probably make a habit of, but a militant-good thief almost by definition is willing to do things that, while not evil per se, are a little dirtier and shiftier than a more noble/traditional champion of the light would do.

Think of the bazillion movies where the good guys dress up as bad guys to infiltrate the bad guy's lair. I think it's sort of (no, not exactly) like that.

>That said, I could see a good thief paying Cents on the way in
>to kill someone or raid, fully intending to turn around and
>kill them on the way out. That's a little dirty and it's not
>something a paladin or good shaman should probably make a
>habit of, but a militant-good thief almost by definition is
>willing to do things that, while not evil per se, are a little
>dirtier and shiftier than a more noble/traditional champion of
>the light would do.
>
>Think of the bazillion movies where the good guys dress up as
>bad guys to infiltrate the bad guy's lair. I think it's sort
>of (no, not exactly) like that.

But he just said it was literally impossible for him to kill the centurions so that's never going to happen. He's going to have to pay Both? ways.

>I don't myself know what Khas is talking about.

OKay good I don't feel so dumb then.

>That said, I could see a good thief paying Cents on the way in
>to kill someone or raid, fully intending to turn around and
>kill them on the way out. That's a little dirty and it's not
>something a paladin or good shaman should probably make a
>habit of, but a militant-good thief almost by definition is
>willing to do things that, while not evil per se, are a little
>dirtier and shiftier than a more noble/traditional champion of
>the light would do.

But that was the point, it's almost impossible for a lvl 40 thief to kill hero Cents, thats why he had to pay his way by them. You think it's going to somehow be EASIER after he's gotten their attention and drawn them to the area by attacking the Vanquisher? Then his only option is to quaff out, or pay to get back out again. That doesn't strike me as something Uncle Floofy and his posse would want people doing. I can almost guarantee paying a cent as a Maran would get you, at the least, a dressing down. I just don't see it as a viable choice.

>Think of the bazillion movies where the good guys dress up as
>bad guys to infiltrate the bad guy's lair. I think it's sort
>of (no, not exactly) like that.

Yeah but in those movies, Shokai isn't watching, shaking his head, and readying his canoe. In CF he is.

- We all know that a thief or anyone else who is at war with Empire shouldn't be giving Empire money in order to get through centurions.

Look, I don't believe I should pay a toll every 5 miles on the Garden State Parkway. I think it's borderline facist. But I don't get out of my car and try to kill the toll takers to get through to prove a point. I pony up and get to my ultimate destination, which is infinitely more important than the toll.

I'm sure some Fortress roleplay wouldn't allow that. I'd say most would. In fact, Fortress and any battle where the Light willingly assaulted the Dark wouldn't probably exist if the end didn't justify the means to some extent.

>- We all know that a thief or anyone else who is at war with
>Empire shouldn't be giving Empire money in order to get
>through centurions.
>
>Look, I don't believe I should pay a toll every 5 miles on the
>Garden State Parkway. I think it's borderline facist. But I
>don't get out of my car and try to kill the toll takers to get
>through to prove a point. I pony up and get to my ultimate
>destination, which is infinitely more important than the
>toll.
>
>I'm sure some Fortress roleplay wouldn't allow that. I'd say
>most would. In fact, Fortress and any battle where the Light
>willingly assaulted the Dark wouldn't probably exist if the
>end didn't justify the means to some extent.

wha? That doesn't make sense. You only do that because the tolls existance is -not- the cause you are fighting against. Compare and contrast with people fighting against the Skye bridge toll, they refused to pay the toll/troll on their way to their destination.

nt

If this is so and you pay with an item, can you steal it back?

When I act...umm unknowing. I love playing a char that just doesnt get umm metaphors and the meaning of Din-Din. At first she just thought it was an odd nickname! HAH! I love the fact I can do that, it makes for some funny times....But she is also kind of serious and she never got the flirting :/ Anyway, I am only a good acolyte? GOOD? What an insult :P I am absolutely flawless(HAHA, I wish, at least I don't suck...as far as I know).

I thought you were too suicidal, and sometimes a bit of complainer, so I apologize if I learned to ignore you :< I get irritated easily but my furball(Austira) doesn't, so it is hard to play her. So yeah, good to have with the scouting and all. Anyway good luck with your next...and please dont make another dude that hits on the cat...haha.(oh and I am honestly female, if that makes you feel any better).

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't really flirt with you, cause humans aren't really attracted to furballs. So there! =P

Typical just as someone grows on Crys they up and die. Story of her life. At least it gives me some more good material for my tragic and mopey tendancies. :)

I had no idea you were that close to con death, I'm really disapointed to see this. I was just starting to get into the way you were RP'ing too - you're right, it was fun. You played a great dashing rogue. A pity I didn't get to spend more time with you. I'm sure you'll roll another Fortie. :)

Good luck on the next one!

- Crys

PS - also a girl! Who'da thunk.

One of the few girls who didn't turn into a cynical smart alec when I flattered you. One of the few who didn't respond predictably, but rolled with the punches. And, last of all, Great fun.

Who'da thunk.

>Flirting is weird, online, because you *know* that half the
>people you are flirting with are really male.

Only half? You're living in a dream world, dude! It's a total sausage fest up in this! :)

>If I had knowledge of a _single_ slow scroll and a
>_single_ haste prep, I would have been so much more effective.

You were in a good-aligned cabal. Try asking around for just a little help. Someone might be willing to help you. Your chances are better than if you don't ask, at least.

>One aspect of CF I
>don't like is how prepping is so very important. Bleh.

This is less true for a stealth class. If you're raiding a cabal, they know you're coming and there's only so much you can do about that. In other cases, you have a lot of freedom to pick a fight when you opponent isn't prepped. That should at least put you on roughly even terms.

Plus, you can steal your opponents preps. :) Nothing like having someone go for their haste potion and realize too late that you just quaffed it and are tripping them down.

Nice character. At times your relative newbieness really showed, but you're not afraid to mix it up and have some moments of brilliance. Keep at it and you'll keep getting better.

I hate thieves. To his credit, though, he pimped me pretty good after blackjacking me, waiting for my preps to fall, and using vuln weapons on me.

Of course, if 100% didn't fail at the most important times, I'd probably still be playing...(uh oh, I'm going Graatch here)

NT

I know that the uncivilized areas outside the Fortress were probably responsible for about five thousand of my deaths.

I didn't think that anyone talked about prep locations IC. Mostly because the last time I asked, the primary response was, translated OOC, "If I tell you the Gods'll move it." In all my hours playing the Fort (On both Dinian and my last Character, Bliggy), I've never heard anyone ask about preps on cb except for me.

I didn't really like dying so much, but I think doing the smart thing and avoiding fighting altogether would have been far worse than just fighting and dying a lot. I hate being bored even more than I hate dying.

Damnit, just as I was about to come up and join you in the hunt you go out on me, you bastard. We had a couple cool talks in the Inn, and I tried to tell you where some evil people were that you could harm when I could see you. Have fun with the next. And gear isn't all that important, tactics and catching your enemy unprepared are way more imporant. Hope you learned a lot with this char and won't con die so fast with the next. :P

Which char did you play? I'm afraid I didn't remember anyone named Kolun...

Because that was fast. What a way to burn out :P

I spent all my time in the lower ranks pking because I usually didn't have the time to get a ranking group together. I had 7 con at rank 37. Frankly, I expected to die a lot sooner, but I got less suicidal in the hero range =X

Heh... Yeah, it did look like you were level-sitting for a while around the mid 30s.

Ran into you a couple of times when you were raiding. The first time, you had that wood-elf druid hiding out in the Keep and she would always charge in to your rescue whenever I tried to catch you off guard. Hated that flee; blackjack thing you had going, but it was just my luck that I was trailing a bard and managed to get behind the Centurions and rip off the bindings.

One of the other times, I actually managed to get you down when you were fleeing.

Tricky bugger. Always hated fighting binder path thieves.

Hopefully your next life will lead you to the Empire.

You had this annoying tendency to get the better of me =P

Yeah, and trust me, if I was going to rank sit, it would be at a rank where I could *kill* something. Heh.

Someone told me you were close to con death. Sucks, really liked the character and everything (told you all of this, but we're good).

Just so you know, I'm -not- a male so the half that Dinian flirted with that -were- OOC do not include me....just...wanted to say that.