Ikawa is here, fighting a Voralian peacekeeper.
Glooskap is here, fighting a Voralian peacekeeper.
(Ghostly) Dykiis is here, fighting a Voralian peacekeeper.
(Pink Aura) A peacekeeper of Voralian City walks along, humming to himself.
A young elven wanderer casually sips a drink.
A young elven wanderer casually sips a drink.
The keeper of the Arbor House Inn greets you.

<100%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl> Ikawa is blinded by the dirt in his eyes!
Your kicked dirt scratches Ikawa.
Ikawa yells 'Someone just kicked dirt in my eyes!'
Ikawa has some small but disgusting cuts.

<100%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl> d
Ikawa's wrath DISMEMBERS a Voralian peacekeeper!
A Voralian peacekeeper is DEAD!!
A clump of a Voralian peacekeeper's hair is ripped from his head.
Ikawa dodges your slice.
Your stab decimates Ikawa!
Ikawa is covered with bleeding wounds.

<100%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl> dis <--- Entered.

You parry Ikawa's wrath.
You parry Ikawa's wrath.
Ikawa's wrath MASSACRES you!
The gods protect you from Dykiis.
Ikawa parries your slice.
Ikawa parries your stab.
Ikawa parries your slice.
Ikawa is covered with bleeding wounds.

<80%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl>
Ikawa gets a wild look in his eyes.
Ikawa has some small but disgusting cuts.

<80%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl> > > People near you:
Dykiis Arbor House Inn
Glooskap Arbor House Inn
(PK) Ikawa Arbor House Inn
(PK) Loquatl Arbor House Inn
Ikawa has some small but disgusting cuts.

<80%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl> You fail to disarm Ikawa. <--- So much for 100%
Ikawa has some small but disgusting cuts.

<80%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl> dis <---- Readied but not entered.
You parry Ikawa's wrath.
You parry Ikawa's wrath.
The gods protect you from Dykiis.
Your slice devastates Ikawa!
Ikawa dodges your slice.
Ikawa knocks your stab aside before it gets near him.
Ikawa is covered with bleeding wounds.

<80%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl> dis
Ikawa suddenly springs forward and sends you sprawling with a solid body blow!
Ikawa's bash hits you.
Ikawa is covered with bleeding wounds.

<77%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl> dis
Ikawa's wrath EVISCERATES you!
Ikawa's wrath DISMEMBERS you!
The gods protect you from Dykiis.
Ikawa parries your slice.
Ikawa parries your stab.
Your slice MUTILATES Ikawa!
Ikawa is covered with bleeding wounds.

<48%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl> dis
Glooskap looks at you.
Ikawa is covered with bleeding wounds.

<48%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl> di <----Backing off
Dykiis glances at you.
Ikawa is covered with bleeding wounds.

<48%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl> fl <--- Entered.

Ikawa's wrath DISMEMBERS you!
You parry Ikawa's frigid chop.
The gods protect you from Dykiis.
Ikawa dodges your slice.
Your stab MUTILATES Ikawa!
Your slice decimates Ikawa!
Ikawa is gushing blood.

<32%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl>
Ikawa sends you sprawling with a powerful bash!
Ikawa's bash hits you.
Ikawa is gushing blood.

<30%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl>
Glooskap looks at you.
Ikawa is gushing blood.

<30%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl> >
Ikawa's wrath EVISCERATES you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
You parry Ikawa's frigid chop.
You parry Ikawa's wrath.
The gods protect you from Dykiis.
Ikawa parries your slice.
Your stab mauls Ikawa.
Ikawa parries your stab.
Ikawa is gushing blood.

<16%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl>
Dykiis glances at you.
Ikawa is gushing blood.

<16%hp 100%m 61%mv 8354tnl> quaff return
Dykiis becomes corporeal again.
Ikawa wipes the dirt from his eyes.
Ikawa is gushing blood.

<17%hp 100%m 67%mv 8354tnl> quaff return<----- Entered.
>
You parry Ikawa's wrath.
Ikawa's frigid chop DISMEMBERS you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
You parry Ikawa's frigid chop.
You parry Ikawa's frigid chop.
The gods protect you from Dykiis.
Your slice mauls Ikawa.
Ikawa dodges your slice.
Your stab devastates Ikawa!
Ikawa is gushing blood.

<0%hp 100%m 67%mv 8354tnl>
Glooskap looks at you.
Ikawa is gushing blood.

<0%hp 100%m 67%mv 8354tnl>
Ikawa sends you sprawling with a powerful bash!
Ikawa's bash mauls you.
You have been KILLED!!

You have died, but the Carrion Fields are not finished with you yet!
Your soul is returned to the realms in the form of a ghost.
You will return to your corporeal state in a short while.
Be careful, for even a ghost should fear some dangers!
Better stand up first.

<0%hp 0%m 67%mv 8354tnl> You do not have that potion.

<0%hp 0%m 67%mv 8354tnl> You stand up.

delete delete



It's a #### skill. All I play are orcs and warriors and Pincher and bash are the single most over powered skills in game.

Yeah, Preps what ever.
Yeah it's been tweeked down, what ever.
It didn't apply here but I'd like to see ony the leading character be able to use lagging attacks, save for maybe some pole/spear/staff skills. And those should be less succesful.

I want a decent fight, not a battle that turns on a skill a newbie can spam and win. A skill that wins more than it loses.

Bash should be removed or tweek IMO. A missed bash culd put them in the prone, or act as a slow for that round, but two rounds to get up.

Something. It's just crap.

1) You initiated the fight. What did you do before the fight to protect yourself against being bashed? The answer need not include preps. If you did nothing at all, then you're creating a chance that bash will work well against you.

2) After seeing:

Ikawa's wrath MASSACRES you!
...
Your slice devastates Ikawa!

What made you decide to stay for this fight, when he has two groupmates (to at least help with grabbing disarmed weapons, etc.) and the same skill set? You have no scenario advantage (one-on-one fight, he's nearly unwounded, etc.).

3) If Bash is terribly overpowered and single-handedly won this fight, why didn't you use it?

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

So I got Massacred. I was trying to disarm him. If I had disarmed him, I would not have been massacred.

And my slice only Decimated. I was counting on landing more blows, and since he was a giant I was expecting lower damage. Normally I would DISMEMBER so this wasn't a concern.

As for Bash protection, I was counting on a 25dex and Divine AC to keep me alive long enough to escape if need be.

I had had some earlier fights that had lasted several rounds against High Dex opponents. Does it seem unreasonable to assume that I would be able to dodge a Low Dex Char and Land more blows than he?


As far as why I wouldn't use bash. Why would I? Who bashes a giant with an Arial? And How would that have disarmed him? He may have had partners who could have picked up his weapons for him, but he can't wield blind. And to point to Nepenthe's observation, I wasn't out damaging him, I had to remove his weapon to win. Barring that I had to flee. I didn't and couldn't.

>I had had some earlier fights that had lasted several rounds
>against High Dex opponents. Does it seem unreasonable to
>assume that I would be able to dodge a Low Dex Char and Land
>more blows than he?

Not necessarily, but given that you know that you're going to go through rather than around his resistances, and that he's a higher con race than you (and will probably have more hit points), what you're assuming has to be not so much 'land more blows' as 'land a LOT more blows.' That's a bigger risk and you have to weigh that in picking the fight.

I'm not saying you couldn't have won the fight if luck had slid a little differently, but it's probably more of a risk than I'd have taken under those particular circumstances. Then again, I play conservatively in some ways. I will say that I personally don't place a lot of stock in disarm, even coupled with dirt, if there are friendly groupmates on the opponents side to help feed them weapons, unless I have reason to think they'll be distracted by something else.

Is that you are stabbing. Makes me wonder whether your weapon is not well suited for disarming that of many warriors.

Rapier and a royal steel sword.

He was a Sword spec too I believe.

Ah well.

Someone (I've repeated it, but it wasn't originally me) once said you should only bash or use other command denial attacks if you think that if both you and the person you're using it on get up and walk away from the keyboard, you will win. I think that's pretty accurate.

What my response in this case amounts to is: If you're playing only warriors and orcs, the person who wins if both players walk away from the keyboard should, most of the time, be you. If it's not, you're having real problems in how you pick/set-up your fights.

When I'm playing a warrior and someone is bashing me or tripping me one-on-one, my thought generally is "Thanks for lagging yourself for me while I kill you!"

That you're not thinking this but instead dying tells me who the relative newbie in this fight is. No offense, but it's true.

Also, don't forget that bash is one of the few skills/spells that you can completely negate with a prep or two. Ones that are pretty easy to get as well.

Blobqirt

Admitedly I had just came to the age where I could have bought a dimunition, but I had just seen him so I wasn't going to run to the shop and let him "Get Away"

Thanks for a just slightly Nepenthian comment.

I’ve never actually seen any evidence of your deathfulness. Perhaps a link to a past char on a log board somewhere? Or the name of a Char you played a couple of years back? I mean you are always so keen on accepting praise for your PK and quick to point out that you are so good, it seems only fair that we have a chance to learn from the master.

Back to Loquatl.

I think you are saying that bash if you know you are going to win. Well that's my point, I didn't even have a chance to really fight that fight. One skill succeeded, one failed. Had the disarm gone through it would likely have been a different outcome. It didn't and then I died due to command denial.

I as the player made an effort to fight an intelligent battle, yet was denied even the ability to enter three commands. He was able to enter three and may have been recovering from lag due to another.

Do giants really need to start with 100% bash?

I do have a question on Bash.
I was under the impression that it put the basher prone for one attack, but it seems that the attacker gets a boost on damage for his next series attack after a successful bash. Is this so? If so then that just makes it all the more smoovey.

I’d like to see some evidence that bash loses more fights than it wins? I win my fights with it more than I lose, I see others winning with it. And people who flame bash seem to be in an odd state of denial.

It’s true that in this case I lost to a single opponent, and it happens, but for me losing to bash is like playing a game of chess that your opponent wins by punching you in the face. Oh he’s walking away from the table a “winner” but not at the game you were playing.

Nep you said I could walk away from the computer on a bash spammer, well you are right, I could, because if I was perma lagged it wouldn’t matter what I did.

Seriously, you should back off that one. He's earned it.

I’ve never actually seen any evidence of your deathfulness. Perhaps a link to a past char on a log board somewhere? Or the name of a Char you played a couple of years back? I mean you are always so keen on accepting praise for your PK and quick to point out that you are so good, it seems only fair that we have a chance to learn from the master.

Nep stopped publicizing who he plays a long time ago, but see what you can dig up on the name "Istendil", in game or out. For the record, he still plays characters, possibly more than any IMP.

Istendil is a rather old character, but it's safe to assume someone who played the dominant character of his era years ago, and has stayed involved with the game since, is probably someone who knows what he's talking about. Especially when we're talking about a level 15 skill in common use in a completely common fight scenario.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Nepenthe said that in a fight, only use bash if you think you can walk away from the computer and win. He didn't mean walk away and give up. He meant only stick around for a bash fight, if you think you can out melee the person. (i.e. win without a "smart fight" as you mentioned.) Second, you saw how much this guy was out damaging you before he even typed bash. My best guess is, he wasn't bashing yet to see how hard you hit. When he saw the gross discrepency in his favor, he started bashing away. So in this case it wasn't even mindless bashing, he waited to see who was the better melee person first. Last, you already admitted you know one thing that could have changed that fight for you.(reduce potion) I don't really think it's fair to the imm's, to blame something you could have prevented, on them. Not to mention I think you owe Nep a damn apology, for trying to help you and you being an ass.

Check the lable on your own medicine before you perscribe it to someone else.

I know what he said.

I win fights where I am out damaged all the time.

Look to see at what point in the fight He started bashing.

Yeah I had been soloing for 15 hours strait and was pissed.

Don't tell me what another player was thinking unless you are them. The fight wasn't about them.

>I’ve never actually seen any evidence of your deathfulness.
>Perhaps a link to a past char on a log board somewhere? Or the
>name of a Char you played a couple of years back? I mean you
>are always so keen on accepting praise for your PK and quick
>to point out that you are so good, it seems only fair that we
>have a chance to learn from the master.

Sorry, I'm not really interested in that kind of cock-waving. If you want to dig up some of my past characters, I'm sure you can, but they're not relevant to this discussion.

I'm not going to tell you I'm the greatest player to ever grace CF. All that aside, if you want to see something changed in the game, convincing me would be a good start.

>I think you are saying that bash if you know you are going to
>win. Well that's my point, I didn't even have a chance to
>really fight that fight. One skill succeeded, one failed. Had
>the disarm gone through it would likely have been a different
>outcome. It didn't and then I died due to command denial.
>
>I as the player made an effort to fight an intelligent battle,
>yet was denied even the ability to enter three commands. He
>was able to enter three and may have been recovering from lag
>due to another.

What I'm saying is, bash is only good if you think all of your "autopilot" stuff is better than your opponent's autopilot stuff. If neither of you do anything and the fight just comes down to your attacks vs his defenses and so on, who will win? If it's you, bash is an attractive option. If it's not, bash is a stupid option.

The corrolary of this is that as this guy's opponent, you should be anticipating this and have an answer to bash. This could be a lot of things. It could be preps, either to negate or reduce the effectiveness of bash or to improve your fighting ability, sure. It could be picking more appropriate gear or weapons to survive or win under those conditions. It could be timing your attack a little better so you jump on this guy when he's not right about to kill the peacekeeper. It could be bringing allies or a mercenary to up your damage output if your character is willing to use those methods, or it could be as simple as not picking a fight you can't win if he won't.

My number one recommendation from having looked at this log: I gather from what you're saying that this guy is a giant and you're not. In that case, your weapon choice was abysmally bad. You're throwing physical damage type weapons against a guy with weapon resist. Coming up with weapons to go after his vulnerabilities could be tricky, but coming up with something that doesn't have to go through his resistances shouldn't be. With that small change in fighting choices, you'd be throwing a LOT more damage out. Bashing you into next week would suddenly look like a much less attractive choice.

>Do giants really need to start with 100% bash?
>
>I do have a question on Bash.
>I was under the impression that it put the basher prone for
>one attack, but it seems that the attacker gets a boost on
>damage for his next series attack after a successful bash. Is
>this so? If so then that just makes it all the more smoovey.

It's not so.

>I’d like to see some evidence that bash loses more fights than
>it wins? I win my fights with it more than I lose, I see
>others winning with it. And people who flame bash seem to be
>in an odd state of denial.

It probably wins more fights than it loses. Madly spamming bash at everything won't, however. Hopefully, you can see the difference. This guy realized he was outperforming you with normal attacks and went to the bash, but I bet he doesn't whip it at every fight.

>It’s true that in this case I lost to a single opponent, and
>it happens, but for me losing to bash is like playing a game
>of chess that your opponent wins by punching you in the face.
>Oh he’s walking away from the table a “winner” but not at the
>game you were playing.

You're certainly welcome to think of it that way, but in that case, what's happening is that your opponent is playing CF, and you're playing some weird more limited rules subset of CF.

Ultimately, if you just can't find a way to surmount giant bash, play a giant bash-happy warrior even if you hate it. I'm sure you'll win some fights that way, but you'll definitely lose others. Pay attention to what kills you and you'll know how to beat that kind of character in the future.

This was actually very helpful. Thank you.

http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?53178

In general imms tend to be well versed in most aspects of the game. That includes pk and pk strategy. Nepenthe in particular has a well deserved reputation for pk power. I have no idea how much he does, or does not play morts anymore, but I do know that his finger is still on the pulse of what works, and what doesn't.

Good luck... keep in mind that when I was in my first few years, there were things I believed with absolute certainty that turned out not to be true. It's really a matter of experimentation, and learning.

Khas

In general imms tend to be well versed in most aspects of the game. That includes pk and pk strategy.

Yup. I'll expand on that with two points:

1) While we don't strictly screen IMMs for PK prowess, it's considered a positive on an applicant, because it reflects some level of understanding about game balance, and this comes in handy for designing abilities, areas, etc. Also, they've at least heroed a couple of prominent characters, so they know what the game looks like at various levels. Frequently, a character that eventually immed was tougher than average as a mortal, sometimes much more so.

2) Being an IMM is CF-educational as well. You spend a lot of time watching characters, and a disproportionate amount of that time watching 'impact' characters- the real movers and shakers. Along the way, you see people do memorably clever (and sometimes memorably dumb) things, and pick up pointers along the way.

Broadly, if someone's been an IMM for a long time, they know a thing or two, and all of them know enough to talk about basic combat topics like Bash.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Since bash can indeed make you prone, the next single hit to land after a successful bash does extra damage.

It might, for all I know, also have an impact on dex, if you are prone.

That said, bash is dangerous, but also risky.

Take anti-paladins, for example. A missed bash can easily allow an opponent to disarm (pre irongrip) and take the unholy weapon, since missed bashes lag the basher for 3 rounds. Using my non-bashing ap as an example, those three rounds from a failed one were enough for me to dish out three oblits with iceballs on top of my melee damage.

If you are bashed you are prone and take extra damage the next attack. If the basher misses, he is prone, lagged for an extra round, and will take extra damage the next attack.

.

>Someone (I've repeated it, but it wasn't originally me) once
>said you should only bash or use other command denial attacks
>if you think that if both you and the person you're using it
>on get up and walk away from the keyboard, you will win. I
>think that's pretty accurate.

That's accurate, but it still means a warrior is virtually guarunteed not only a victory, but a kill, if he surprises someone who is less capable at melee. And at low to mid levels, a giant warrior should be able to kill just about anyone this way.

That's fine, but it seems unparalleled in terms of spelling doom for the unready.

>That's accurate, but it still means a warrior is virtually
>guarunteed not only a victory, but a kill, if he surprises
>someone who is less capable at melee.

It really doesn't.

You have to realize that bash lag is random. Even if I, as the basher, have done everything right and you as the victim have done everything wrong, the odds are not in favor of me keeping you permalagged indefinitely. You almost always have a better chance of getting the next command before I do if I bash. (I don't really want to crunch the exact numbers on that.) You can then use that command to run for your life if that's what you need to do to live/win, or to try to cripple me in some way that will mean I'm not outperforming you in melee anymore. Will that window of opportunity come before I run out of hit points? Ah, now that's the interesting part. It might, or it might not. We tend to remember the might nots.

>And at low to mid
>levels, a giant warrior should be able to kill just about
>anyone this way.

Nope. Unless we assume his physical attacks can kill just about anyone in 1-2 rounds, which really isn't true in the general case.

>That's fine, but it seems unparalleled in terms of spelling
>doom for the unready.

That's not really true either. Even in terms of single-character melee lag, I prefer bearcharge to bash in the right circumstances, and the trip / cheap shot combo to either in most circumstances.

Outside of the single character melee lag arena, there's a lot of paralleling doom. If I'm a necromancer, summon can (note: can, not will) guarantee me fight to the death (well, yours) if I want it that you probably won't win if you're unready for the situation. If I'm a bard throwing frightful fiend, certain kinds of characters are generally toast if they're not set up to deal with it. Maledictions like impale, crimson scourge, and rot all have lethal killing power in and of themselves that certain characters find it very hard to deal with.

We could keep going all day. This game is called Carrion Fields, and there's a lot of colorful murder out there. Bash is just one of the flavors.

>the odds are not in favor of me keeping you permalagged indefinitely.

This I understand and agree with, and it's one of the main reasons I said low-mid... at hero people have enough hitpoints that they'll survive to get a command.

> You almost always have a better chance of getting the next command
> before I do if I bash.

This totally amazes me, both from my theoretical understanding, and my own anecdotal experience. I'll assume that you have crunched the numbers and found this to be true, so I must assume that either I've always been in the most-bashable position, or I'm badly selectively remembering. My impression is that they'll get in 2-3 bashes before I get a command. I made a 15th level fire-giant bash spec and while I don't remember anything exact, my impression was that running up to people and just bashing them got them killed before they did anything much of the time. But I didn't play him that long so my sample is small.

>Nope. Unless we assume his physical attacks can kill just
>about anyone in 1-2 rounds, which really isn't true in the
>general case.

That's only if the first bash is a miserable failure. (0 or 1 rounds of lag) 1-2 succesful bashes followed is around 4 or 5 total rounds, and that will kill a lot of people in the mid-ranks.

>Outside of the single character melee lag arena, there's a lot
>of paralleling doom.

I didn't quite mean to say that an unprepped giant bashing is the most amazing thing ever. But for something that only requires no preparation, terrain advantage or tactical (vs. strategic) thinking it's quite lethal.

I don't mean to go back and forth with what if this and what if that, but anyone (excepting ragers, who have strong powers) can just quaff once they're summoned.

But the more important is that the warrior doesn't have to prep to do his thing. The others do. That necromancer needs damage reduction to pull that off, or it's very risky. A failed sleep can easily mean death, whereas a failed bash isn't nearly so dangerous.

That's another thing, because warriors are so tough (durability-wise) the consequences of failed skills are dramatically less severe.

>We could keep going all day. This game is called Carrion
>Fields, and there's a lot of colorful murder out there. Bash
>is just one of the flavors.

That's true, though you'll note that things like fright fiend, gaunts or The Hunt that have that sort of lethal power are generally high level skills. Yes there are scenarios you can engineer where any skill is going to be lethal (queue pen reference), but bash is level 15. I'm not debating that bash is superb at hero. In fact I expect you'll lose almost every time with an all-bash strategy. But at low to mid range, it's exceedingly strong for the amount of risk and planning it takes.

>I don't mean to go back and forth with what if this and what
>if that, but anyone (excepting ragers, who have strong powers)
>can just quaff once they're summoned.

Sure, if you have the presense of mind and quickness of reactions to quaff before I can attack you.

However, even carrying that simple potion of return is a form of preparation. It's just one you don't generally think about. If we're taking this to the extreme and talk about what kills totally unprepared characters, summon to a locked room is at least as good as bash.

>But the more important is that the warrior doesn't have to
>prep to do his thing. The others do. That necromancer needs
>damage reduction to pull that off, or it's very risky. A
>failed sleep can easily mean death, whereas a failed bash
>isn't nearly so dangerous.

Huh. Funny, I wasn't even thinking about sleep.

I think bash is excellent at the low-mid levels for killing players who aren't very good. It's also good for killing players who are trying desperately to level their character past those levels and doing even really think of the game beginning yet then. I've definitely killed a ton of bash characters over the years in their failed bash lag, though. For example, an invoker, a character generally not considered very strong at, let's say, level 20 can make an amazing killing on this if they play their cards right.

>However, even carrying that simple potion of return is a form
>of preparation.

It is, but one that's readily available and can last you a very long time. Whereas the stone skin/haste, or abs is rarer and more hassle to get, often limitted, or has unpleasant side effects.

>about. If we're taking this to the extreme and talk about
>what kills totally unprepared characters, summon to a
>locked room is at least as good as bash.

I wouuld still disagree. The defending character still has an opportunity to take action of some kind, which adds risk to the attacker.

>Huh. Funny, I wasn't even thinking about sleep.

Well all right, blind/rescue or dam redux/vamp or whatever, I never claimed to be deathful (yes I know this reflects on the validity of my opinion).

>I think bash is excellent at the low-mid levels for killing
>players who aren't very good.

Okay, I can agree with that, based on what I expect you think qualifies as "players who aren't very good." I imagine that by your standards, almost everyone is not very good.

Because to me, bash is good against any non-warrior low/midbie who can be surprised. And that's most people that I see, but maybe birds of an incompetant feather inadvertantly flock together.

>For example, an invoker, a character generally not considered
>very strong at, let's say, level 20 can make an amazing
>killing on this if they play their cards right.

I won't deny this, but I'd say it's a select few who have the knowledge and patience to collect all the components to make this work. But then, the components are probably fewer and easier to get than I imagine. The expense and time-intensity of being a deathful lowbie invoker looks a bit formidable to me.

Actually, aside from the obvious time spent practicing spells, it isn't time intensive to be a deathful lowbie invoker. You generally have a spell that can take advantage of a weakness, and even if you don't you'll have some one round spells that is certain damage, unlike skills such as second attack. The only component you need is knowing when to hit another character, and when to beat feet. Which is true in any fight.

.

one of two possibilities. One, don't attack that person if you're afraid of being lagged to death. Two, where pk is your friend, use it, alot. Hard for bash spammer to surprise you if you see him first.

Not me or I would never fight.

>Actually, aside from the obvious time spent practicing
>spells, it isn't time intensive to be a deathful lowbie
>invoker.

Yup. Additionally, you can easily be viable, especially at those levels, with only 4 or 5 paths. That potentially reduces your active practice time to nearly zero.

After dying, I could definitely be ready to kill again with an invoker at that level faster than with a warrior. There's less I need to gather. On the other hand, I might need to be pickier about fights.

The invoker also potentially has some better anti-lag options than many warriors do at that level.

Yeah, preps whatever.

Good attitude. Why handicap yourself? You want to put C-level effort into your character, you are going to get C-level results. I don't know the races, but reducing yourself might have helped. Were you a rager applicant or something?

I want a decent fight, not a battle that turns on a skill a newbie can spam and win.

One of the things that separates the "newbies" who spam bash and the more experienced players is that the experienced players know how to avoid putting themselves in the situation you did.

Bash doesn't need changing. Chin up and keep trucking. Change your playstyle a little and you will do better.

A missed bash does put you prone. I could go on, but you'll be back so I'll wait till the next time you come ranting about some skill that you don't like.

I am not claiming Ikawa was a Newbie BTW.

Of course I have no real way of knowing from that fight.