Thu Apr 1 10:47:08 2004


At 10 o'clock PM, Day of the Bull, 29th of the Month of the Long Shadows
on the Theran calendar Manethrall perished, never to return.

Race:	storm
Class:	paladin
Level:	51
Alignment:	Good
Ethos:	Neutral
Cabal:	FORTRESS, the Fortress of Light
Age:	228
Hours:	139

Had I not been playing a lightwalker I'd have attacked you.

I decided to erase most of what I wrote as maybe it was
too 'flamey'tm.

Some highlights too important to leave out:
arguing with an imm over something they decide and not you
(i.e. full maran/squire) is kind of lame. If you 'deserved'
it and they had know way of knowing you did, oh well. COPE.
If your focus was on the character and not whether you got
full maran or not maybe it would have worked out better.

being upset with your empowerment imm because he decided
you were not fit for his halls, again his choice whether you
were or not. you either become what it is he was looking for, or accept that you are not.

a pre-pk warrior i was playing around with and deleted:
you offered gear and then got bitchy in less than a minute
because i didn't run to galadon to kiss your ass or whatever
you expected for said gear. when you got pissy i told you give
it to someone else. and you kept being an ass. hell i was fighting
a mob when you first spoke and blinded shortly after. maybe my
future interactions with you were colored by that, i tried to
not let them be but the more you opened your mouth the less i liked you. I was really hoping it was some twisted role issue, but after
seeing the posts here.. it's just you.
I think I get some of the issues imms have with entitlement
did you think because you connected a client or telnet to
carrionfields and chose a paladin that you were somehow supposed
to magically be granted full maran, a tat and a pile of virtues?

I have always encouraged a player on the battlefields, focusing on what was good about thier char, improvements I saw while interacting with/fighting them, and anxiously awaited the next because each person
no matter how poorly they rp/pk has SOMETHING new/refreshing/different
to offer, or just to watch them grow as a player...
so here goes:
I think you would make a fantastic evil character, I mean fantastic.
You have a harshness that carries through the text, which is not as easy as people think. Maybe it is accidental and you never meant to
sound like that but I say run with it.

I didn't know the character well, though I have fought him. However, when you are a paladin, you can't help but compare yourself with other paladins to see if you are doing things right. When you see some of what double-virtued paladins get away with (e.g. killing elite dwarven guards for gear) when you avoid this stuff, it does start to make you bitter.

I know when I played my paladin I played him as I really believed a paladin would be. I ended up with no kills (my only 0% pk ratio character). My enemies ran usually except for those with arcanes that kicked my butt. It really began to get to me that maybe I wasn't making it as a maran because I wasn't sealing kills. Meanwhile those ganging were being made marans. But to me, even a maran paladin shouldn't throw honor totally out of the window.

Anyway, I completely sympathise with anyone who plays a paladin and is disappointed if they get no virtues. Mine was definitely a real let-down in my eyes. When you are the only paladin in a range of 6 arcanes that doesn't have champion's stand, you start to feel like you must be a crap one, and that's no fun.

argue with an imm involved with it or tell
them they were wrong in thier decision eh?

'nuff said.

n/t

First, my computer has gone to #### and hence why it has taken so long to reply. But sure I can answer and/or make comments for you. You can agree, or disagree, but this is just what was seen from me and others.

First off, yes the last thing I told you was a bit brief and short, however it was at the end of a long session and I wasn't staying around much longer. Hence the statement and then leaving, instead of just ignoring you and making you stick around longer.

As to the statement now:
You asked me if you had displeased me and the reply was something like "No, you have not displeased me, however I do not think you fit within these halls". Meaning from me, yeah..you've not really done anything wrong as a paladin, but you've not really shown anything positive towards my religion. Perhaps you had the ####ty luck of everytime I sit down and watch you, to not really see anything special, but each time I was looking I got that feeling of eh...its ok, not great.

As well, there was some feed back from others saying how they were not too impressed with some of your actions and how you were killing certain mobs for their gear. This didn't make the decision, however it just sets that idea of 'this guy is ok, but not anything great.'

Now on some of my personal views and such on faiths. I personally don’t think they are any right, or anyone deserves them because they hero. I believe they should be earned and shown as a well played paladin. This goes back to watching you, and looking for something that I would award you a faith for that fit, and each time I really didn't see it. Are there some who have a faith at 35? Sure. Are there some who really don’t deserve it? Probably but that’s not me. As well, it was slightly annoying that it seemed you only put in the extra effort when I was vis, since as soon as I did such, you would instantly log on and run to the shrine.

It's posts like these that really, really upset me.

But it's not worth going over now.

Thanks for posting.

I guarentee it. One thing I really dislike, while it being a viable role, is imposing people. You came off as one of these, and I'm not saying thats bad, but geez man, didn't you ever get tired of the master knight, sir elf crap? Guh, that alone made me not want to interact with you, but again, thats just me. As far as this maran thing goes, I don't know. I've been part of the cabal and known you for maybe 10-15 hours tops, so I really can't judge. I will say though that the raid in which I thought you were in charge of was a total flop. Probably one of the worst coordinated things I've ever been a part of. I liked you in a standoffish kind of way. I wouldn't have jumped head over heels to come and be part of whatever you were doing, but I could live with our interactions. Anyways, I hope you aren't bitter or anything about the experience, and good luck on whatever you do next.

Lathan

I may write more later but what I am hoping now to hear from Ordasen and Vynmylak.

Ordasen: I would very much appreciate you're explaining your last words to me, "You don't fit in my Halls". You immediately re-wizi'd and did not allow for any reply or anything at all. I hope you will explain this, please, so I might understand better.

Vynmylak: After our conversation I gave a lot of thought to what you said and to the game and I think there is a problem with how you determine who becomes maran. I think you are applying one standard when you should be applying different standards. I've had maran before, as you know, and while there is no doubt you are far better versed in what is or is not a maran, I think I have at least an ok handle on it and there is a problem now. I think the criterion of 'deathfulness' which you mentioned (in other words) makes sense, but it must be informed by a lot of other factors. For example, it makes absolute sense to hold a warrior or assassin up to a very high kill ratio standard. It doesn't make so much sense to hold a shield spec paladin up to that standard. Instead, at least in my mind, you need to see that the person is being _in_ the war, and actively hunting/participating, and not out doing other things like gear hunting or exploring when they have active enemies to find. And to keep in mind that a paladin who holds to the code is generally the last one to leave combat (at least until recently when word of recall on others was taken away) and therefore often the one to die. Look to whether the paladin is fighting a lot and winning, but his enemies get away. Because, after all, a shield spec paladin has but one way to keep people, shieldbash, and that's not particularly good at it.

I think also that you are holding them to the abilities of a paladin with virtues, who can seal more kills. But when you have a shield spec paladin with no virtues at all (I had none, that's something Ordasen would have to explain, maybe I didn't deserve any at all, compared to all the other paladins I knew who had one at 35 and a second at hero. Me, bitter? nah.) there are a total of four or five things to do in combat. Wrath, flamestrike, angels wing (flank if not tanking) disarm and shieldbash. And of course several of those don't work on some people, for different reasons. Oh, and holy word. Sorry to forget that.

Anyway, the rant here is that if the paladin (and I like to think I fell into this category) won most of his fights, and his enemies fled, but didn't actually get the final blow (either because they fled or because someone else did - Gradaelus did that to me twice, the punk! :P) he shouldn't be penalized, as I was.

I would really like to hear from you guys, please.

Thank you.

Manne!

I don't think you should have given up so quick, but I don't know the entirety of the situation either. I enjoyed your character.
From the arguements we had to the eventual comraderie and the similar styles...it was alot of fun. That goodbye was pathetic in the Hall of Light, you could have rp'd it up. :P

Later, suckah.

When your empowerment god ignores you and then tells you one line "You aren't fit for my Halls", then wizi's so you can't talk to him at all, when you have no virtues and aren't getting any and no tattoo, well, playing the paladin isn't much fun.

When you delete I'll have more to say, but on a general note I never saw you break role or behave in anything other than what your character appeared to be, so well done.

This has the potential of a lot of questions/answers. That said, if it turns to such, let's continue this on either Shok's or my forum.

I actually look for quite a few factors before raising someone up to Maran, and I think if you were to look back at some that have been raised, there are quite a few Brigade members who were not overly "deathful" -- some quite the opposite. Having had previous Brigade/Maran members, you know its about redemption of evil, and that can incorporate a lot of criteria. (Role, actions, ratio, etc.).

In your case specifically, I didn't necessarily observe anything that stood out for me from observing, and the only incident that I can recall that did stand out was regarding a stalemate of whether to move aggressively or take a defensive stance against an Imperial group in Balator; it really wasn't outstanding in the sense of good or bad, but more funny as the debate ran and they wound up surprising your group. Moreso, I didn't catch any in-depth conversations, cabal chatter, and saw a Maran-to-be with a 6:6 ratio. Pretty limited information, and gave you as much as I could.

Intent: Give you some feedback, something to work on. Encourage some interaction with Lariya, offer to watch some more and see what would come out of it.

Result: Bit of argumentative opinion about how I wasn't seeing things correctly or didn't have a good understanding of the difficulties/challenges you have. In the end, tried to be subtle (about as much as a war/rage/honor god RP'd) will be regarding giving a mortal feedback.

In any event, sorry the experience wasn't a great one. Hope if in the future, you come this route again, you'll find a bit more enjoyment.

If you have any questions or want to explore this more, put up a post on my forum and I'll be happy to give my opinion.

thx, Vyn

There are several problems with what you wrote, which I may address on your forum, I'm not sure, but whether I do or not, thank you for replying and replying so quickly.

nt

n/t

n/t

I really liked you and thought you had great potential.. Why?