Sat Sep 1 09:10:15 2001


4 o''clock AM, Day of Thunder, 31st of the Month of the Battle on the Theran calendar Cranikun perished, never to return.

Race:	cloud
Class:	ranger
Level:	51
Alignment:	Neutral
Ethos:	Neutral
Cabal:	BATTLE, the BattleRagers, Haters of Magic
Age:	196
Hours:	97
PK Ratio:	80% (closer to 100% is better)

* HUUUUUUAAAAARRRRRGHHHHHH *

Well, guess I know why ya said ya wouldn't be around later. *sigh* O'well. You were a hard hitting beast, especially for a scout. Gunna miss ya! Only 97 hours? Bah!

Nery

Gimme a break Nerylana, I hero'd in about 74 hours thanks to some fantastic ranger ranking places but I still had to go to work and talk to my GF in the evenings. Can't devote as much time as I would like unfortunately.

-----Abernyte

Having a stab back at being a rager and thought, Iolanthe was fun, lets go cloud ranger again but scout this time. Scouts are good fun and really rape shifters.
The early deletion is out of disgust more than anything. Disgust at the fact that the Immortals of Carrionfields give every class skills/spells enough to fight survive and exist alone but noone ever seems to fight alone at all. The lack of courage makes the game really unplayable at times. The nexus were fine but only, I suppose, due to lack of members. The scions were alright too in their way with only one group of 6 fighting me but they were raiding. The warlocks aka the fortress are by far the worst sniffling little wretches going. You leave a snare outside because your a villager in the new village and wish to avoid fighting marans or dawn warriors and only fight the mages but hell on a stick if you ever get a chance to. They hide inside and/or wait till the whole fortress is assembled then they come and talk ##### afterwards and this just did my head in. These three cabals need three seperate locations. Matters were made worse due to one of the marans requesting aid in getting his clothes back from two nexus lions so we did that while we raided. Myself, Nerylana and selfren who died in about 10 seconds. He then takes great gleee, it appears, to join in the hammering of me when I wanted to fight the 'fortress' mages. Gangbangs happen and its alright when its a rarity but its ALL the time and its really tiresome and really spoils CF in general. CF classes are well balanced enough for people to fight and outwit each other one on one. Sort yourselves out!

-----Abernyte

I just met you and, being one of the (2) newest ragers, I know what you mean. But I just wanted to say that I thought you did a great job with Cranikun...I know if I were a foe, the woods would scare the ##### out of me. Well played...hope you get over your desgust and return, and, if not, good luck in future endevors.
Bardock

Hey buddy,
Man its been awhile since we have been in a cabal together...that I knew about! Well, I agree completely with you about the whole lack of courage bit. I used to be a diehard rager like you, but I haven't been back since the changes because frankly they sicken me. I've played two major chars since Chalin and both fought most of their fights alone. Aliborni...Sylvan Warder Tranny who I usually did fairly well with and won quite a few battles. It was always more enjoyable to hunt people down with the eagle/lion combo than to work with everyone else. Don't get me wrong, there were times when I needed the others, seeing as Scion's were the strongest then. Then I made Meridius. He definately was a lot of fun at first because I would fight a lot of people alone. Scion was strong and I was having fun, but then everyone disappeared. I knew where to get certain protections that made it a little bit better, but being a Scion fighter with two powers verse sylvan, ragers...whoever was a lot of fun. Ragers have lost all respect in my eyes, and I have never liked Thror...even when he was a little mortal under my veteran. He has always been egotistical. I hate how he will switch into the Destructor anytime there is more than two raiding against one. Hate to say it, but most ragers can hold their own at D if they are smart. Ragers wouldn't even give me teh courtesy, nor accept duals...and this ticked me off. I'm not saying everyone, but I think if I'm fighting Kazander one to one, I shouldn't worry about Katisae and Intronan jumping me. Kazander with his <<<Erradicates>>> did just fine against me every time. In fact, I never beat him...how sad. All this to say, some of what goes on definately ticks me off, but thats life isn't it, and I'm so addicted that it doesn't matter! :) Hey, give me an email sometime, need to catch up and see what/who you've been up to.

borton78@aol.com

Later,
Aaron aka Chalin/Josiah/Dilon/Creon/Tinsen

Here's the thing... I never jumped in on you unless you were near the village. If you're standing in dwarf, and we hold the Scepter... you're damn right I'm jumping in. Don't think I ever turned down a duel from you, once. I really don't like my name being thrown around as a gang banger. It's highly inaccurate. Have I ever? Yup. Will I again? Yup. But it's the situations that dicate it.

>Hey buddy,
> Man its been awhile since we have been in a cabal together...that I knew about! Well, I agree completely with you about the whole lack of courage bit. I used to be a diehard rager like you, but I haven't been back since the changes because frankly they sicken me. I've played two major chars since Chalin and both fought most of their fights alone. Aliborni...Sylvan Warder Tranny who I usually did fairly well with and won quite a few battles. It was always more enjoyable to hunt people down with the eagle/lion combo than to work with everyone else. Don't get me wrong, there were times when I needed the others, seeing as Scion's were the strongest then. Then I made Meridius. He definately was a lot of fun at first because I would fight a lot of people alone. Scion was strong and I was having fun, but then everyone disappeared. I knew where to get certain protections that made it a little bit better, but being a Scion fighter with two powers verse sylvan, ragers...whoever was a lot of fun. Ragers have lost all respect in my eyes, and I have never liked Thror...even when he was a little mortal under my veteran. He has always been egotistical.

---- Thror is a 'character.' Thror's player is not. Try to make that distinction somewhere.

I hate how he will switch into the Destructor anytime there is more than two raiding against one. Hate to say it, but most ragers can hold their own at D if they are smart.

---- When the Destructor is animated it is to give inspiration to a usually bad situation. It tends to lessen the impact of death and give the enemy something to think about. I'm sure the enemy is offended but the defending villagers welcome the company.

Ragers wouldn't even give me teh courtesy, nor accept duals...and this ticked me off. I'm not saying everyone, but I think if I'm fighting Kazander one to one, I shouldn't worry about Katisae and Intronan jumping me. Kazander with his <<<Erradicates>>> did just fine against me every time.

I'm thinking that with the potential of knowledge behind your players, you know that 'one on one' usually ends in a setup against a rager. Coming to the village alone and wanting to fight someone 'alone' is the most rediculous thing you can do. Why not choose another time and place?

In fact, I never beat him...how sad. All this to say, some of what goes on definately ticks me off, but thats life isn't it, and I'm so addicted that it doesn't matter! :) Hey, give me an email sometime, need to catch up and see what/who you've been up to.
>
>borton78@aol.com
>
>Later,
>Aaron aka Chalin/Josiah/Dilon/Creon/Tinsen


--- Some great characters. Sorry I don't fit the 'cool' category in your book. I had a great time growing up with some of them and actually learned a lot under the tutilage of Josiah. Being 'old school' as you've mentioned...I've probably tampered with a good deal of 'Old School Rager memories' and that is upsetting, but please realize I'm trying to do what's best for the cabal as a whole.

It would be easier to seperate the character from the imm if some questionable things were changed in the village (Some of the people on the Pillar and the fact that Hildebran is the berserker mob in the village just ruin credibility). Also keep in mind that the village has survived by rallying around some of the more inspirational people in the village. Your mortal character was very inspirational, some names like Kaerk, Josiah, and Sendrik also come to mind. I'm aware that the character Thror may have fleshed out in a few different directions, but the fact remains that he's about as inspirational as those ragers who quit out when things are rough and log on their other cabal'd chars. You might want to consider taking a new angle, cause right now being a battlerager is a cold and lifeless affair compared to the inspirational sort of experience that made us roll ragers over and over again. Most of us appreciate ditching the honor requirement because it was obnoxious, but you didn't have to strip ragers of their pride as well...

Yea, never did understand the whole Hildebran thing.
I'm sure you could of picked any other name from the pillar and it would of been ten times more credible, but i guess you're still friends with Rozanov so that's why you placed him in there. On a side note, there are small inconsistancies.. ie: Terwin Talon of the Phoenix? The hell is that? Terwin was Chaotic evil, "Self Proclaimed Godfather of Galadon." Thror we understand that you're doing what *you* think is best for the cabal, but what good is a cabal without the people who truly enjoyed playing it. Take out the retarded gang bang rule, take out the inane no attacking non-mages rule, (because no one follows that anyway) if you look at them the wrong way they'll take it as an excuse to attack. *chuckles* No gang bangs whatsoever unless raiding for their item. It's as simple as that, it removes people attacking the outer guardian to lure them out and gang them. Ragers have/had some of the best powers in the game for a reason. So they *CAN* stand up solo. I know you probably take some small measure of offense when you hear us complain but think of it from our side. We're seeing you fix things that aren't broken. If Nimbus was around, you could shadow him for a week and learn what you can from him.. because he was and always be the main battle imm in my opinion... he was by far the coolest guy to have watching over the cabal.

>Yea, never did understand the whole
>Hildebran thing.
>I'm sure you could of picked
>any other name from the
>pillar and it would of
>been ten times more credible,
>but i guess you're still
>friends with Rozanov so that's
>why you placed him in
>there.


"Never argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.

I'll quote Waigerits on this one. Please sub 'idiot' with 'ignorant' since I'm not trying to be witty or cruel here.

To clarify. I chose three of the mobs in the village based off of my own experience and the experiences of other immortals. Hildebran was probably the most successful Anti-Paladin Rager. He cleaed numerous people in half and was a unique character.


On a side note,
>there are small inconsistancies.. ie:
>Terwin Talon of the Phoenix?
>The hell is that? Terwin
>was Chaotic evil, "Self Proclaimed
>Godfather of Galadon."

I realize this is possible. I've been told that Whilhemstift's name is spelled wrong, or that there is a wrong title on some names on the pillar. Until I'm 100% certain, I'll leave it as is. If you'd like to e-mail me and let me know other inconsistancies, I'll look into them.


Thror we
>understand that you're doing what
>*you* think is best for
>the cabal, but what good
>is a cabal without the
>people who truly enjoyed playing
>it.

Actually, decisions made about the mud are made by various individuals. It's much easier to be the critical player. I've been there and done the same - the perspective of being the immortal of a cabal is much more difficult.


Take out the retarded gang bang rule,

- There is no rule that states you 'should' gang-bang.

take out the inane no attacking non-mages
>rule, (because no one follows
>that anyway) if you look
>at them the wrong way
>they'll take it as an
>excuse to attack.

There were a lot of loopholes in the old philosophy of ragers. There are likely still some in the current one. As Shokai and Valguarnera posted on another forum - we immortals cannot see everything. Some things will get by us.

*chuckles* No
>gang bangs whatsoever unless raiding
>for their item. It's as
>simple as that, it removes
>people attacking the outer guardian
>to lure them out and
>gang them. Ragers have/had some
>of the best powers in
>the game for a reason.
>So they *CAN* stand up
>solo. I know you probably
>take some small measure of
>offense when you hear us
>complain but think of it
>from our side. We're seeing
>you fix things that aren't
>broken.

Honestly. I'll take this to heart. You're a knowledgable individual (rather cold and cruel at times), but with valid points. As much as people think I don't consider their concerns - I do. I don't take any offense to arguements that have substance. When I hear arguements from people who 'haven't' played a rager and are going from word-of-mouth, I get offended.

If Nimbus was around,
>you could shadow him for
>a week and learn what
>you can from him.. because
>he was and always be
>the main battle imm in
>my opinion... he was by
>far the coolest guy to
>have watching over the cabal.

Nimbus was awesome, and I agree I am shadowed by him, BoltThrower and Vassagon. Honestly, walk a mile in my shoes first then give me your perspective? There is always the choice of making a battle character - heroimmorting and helping change things yourself right? I've been away from the cabal for almost three months now and I'm still taking heat about running the cabal wrong...sheesh :P

No hard feelings. Just giving my perspective to a beaten, bloodied and rotted out horse.

Take a poll on that one from people who play mortals eh? Both of his ragers have been extremely questionable... I can't even remember how many times he complained of a poor link and left when a dangerous raid was on its way. Also, Hildebran was easily defeated by other ragers in duels, very easily (this was largely just a downfall of the class rather than the player). If I was playing a hero rager and that mob started yelling at me like it often did and attacked me i'd just want to kill it.

>"Never argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level >and beat you with experience.

>I'll quote Waigerits on this one. Please sub 'idiot' >with 'ignorant' since I'm not trying to be witty or cruel here.

>To clarify. I chose three of the mobs in the village based off >of my own experience and the experiences of other immortals. >Hildebran was probably the most successful Anti-Paladin Rager. >He cleaed numerous people in half and was a unique character.



Absolutely hilarious, but if you're going to get pissy about it, i'll just drop it.

>I realize this is possible. I've been told that Whilhemstift's >name is spelled wrong, or that there is a wrong title on some >names on the pillar. Until I'm 100% certain, I'll leave it as >is. If you'd like to e-mail me and let me know other >inconsistancies, I'll look into them.

I'd email you, but i just told you here.. so you know already.

>Nimbus was awesome, and I agree I am shadowed by him, >BoltThrower and Vassagon. Honestly, walk a mile in my shoes >first then give me your perspective? There is always the choice >of making a battle character - heroimmorting and helping change >things yourself right? I've been away from the cabal for almost >three months now and I'm still taking heat about running the >cabal wrong...sheesh

Me imming would go over about as well as a nuclear holocaust. Seb never did tell me what circumstances would have to be met for that to happen. :P
As for you not running it for the last three months and still taking flak for it, that's easy.. you were the last person to be 'known' running it and the ideology that's there now came from your run on top.

>No hard feelings. Just giving my perspective to a beaten, >bloodied and rotted out horse.

None at all, i just wished that no one touched our beautiful battle cabal.

--Actually, decisions made about the mud are made by various individuals. It's much easier to be the critical player. I've been there and done the same - the perspective of being the immortal of a cabal is much more difficult.--

Maybe look at it this way. Most of the old ragers liked the cabal so much, that there was little reason to change it. So they didn't role up a character to try changing it. Battle had a few fuckers come along (fuckin elves), they con die cause because why the hell not, and all of a sudden you implement their ideals into the new 'battleragers'. Or that's how it sure looked to me when I returned from a four month hiatus. If battle was so messed up, why did everyone that played them love playing them the original way except Trewyn and Hyshrawr (sorry guys, I hold no love for you two whiners, especially when 90% or your fuckin posts begin with Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...) But anyway, I grew up in the Dhaevor/Maclochlan/Minalcar days, and it was simply the most fun I have had on this game, and I miss it. This new watered down stuff just ain't cool, ain't fun, but most of all it's not . So yeah, I know I'm a hard headed asshole who expects things how I want them. I expect to be biased when it comes to 'old school ragers'. But somewhere in there is a plea, and hopefully its loud enough to make a change.

Just don't pull a Valg/Jacynth and take offense to every Battle comment as if we were hatin on your mom. We're not. We just wish things were like the old days, where it -was- better, where it -was- more fun.

This is not intended to be a flame as I think you've taken enough flak here already.

However, from a mortal's perspective, we are completely powerless to (successfully) oppose you if you decide to come down and cranial us for some reason. This happened to me when a group of players who all had a grudge against a village bard came together to hunt him down. You stopped us from ganging him. This was the only time Benlunkda was involved in something like this, because I had been killed in a particularly annoying way by this villager.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that gang-banging should not be prevented. However, I don't think it is fair to step in and completely prevent it happening to a villager when the villagers are now practicing it themselves. I also think that it is just something we can deal with ourselves as mortals, without higher powers stepping in.

A similar thing applies to taking control of the destructor. I've never known the sorceress to cast her most effective spells when the villagers come to raid, so using the Destructor in this way gives another edge that other groups don't have. In the ideal world, I think all the imms would take control of cabal guardians like you do, but since they don't/won't/can't, it just makes the playing field a bit uneven when you do so.

In summary, I think the villagers are already very powerful (though not inherently overpowered) as
- they rarely lose the head because many cabals are not permitted to take it. Likewise they usually command the advantage of numbers against quite a few enemies because those enemies are not permitted to attack villagers, and so never have the advantage themselves
- what they miss out on by foregoing magic can largely be replaced by a bard. (I'm assuming the assistance of communers and mages is going to become a thing of the past now that you're back.)


Give the above, I don't think the village should also have the benefit of
- occasional divine protection from large groups chasing them
- a cabal guardian who suddenly doubles in effectiveness

unless the rest of the playing field gets similar help.

Anyway, I appreciate that you've not been able to watch over things recently owing to more important things. Again, this is not intended to be a flame, just my request for some changes that in my opinion would be for the greater good.

>This is not intended to be
>a flame as I think
>you've taken enough flak here
>already.
>
>However, from a mortal's perspective, we
>are completely powerless to (successfully)
>oppose you if you decide
>to come down and cranial
>us for some reason.

Thror the character does not cranial someone unless they piss him off. It would be an abuse of my powers to cranial you during a fight or in a critical moment. Thus, I always look before I cranial - would you rather be plagued :)?

>This happened to me when
>a group of players who
>all had a grudge against
>a village bard came together
>to hunt him down.
>You stopped us from ganging
>him. This was the
>only time Benlunkda was involved
>in something like this, because
>I had been killed in
>a particularly annoying way by
>this villager.
>
>Don't get me wrong, I'm not
>saying that gang-banging should not
>be prevented. However, I
>don't think it is fair
>to step in and completely
>prevent it happening to a
>villager when the villagers are
>now practicing it themselves.
>I also think that it
>is just something we can
>deal with ourselves as mortals,
>without higher powers stepping in.
>
>
>A similar thing applies to taking
>control of the destructor.

Let me clear this up, since I think you and others are probably misunderstood. When I 'animate' a mob, I make the mob speak/yell. Nothing more. To animate a mob with the intent of killing the raider would be an abuse of my powers and the other immortals would not tolerate it.

>I've never known the sorceress
>to cast her most effective
>spells when the villagers come
>to raid, so using the
>Destructor in this way gives
>another edge that other groups
>don't have. In the
>ideal world, I think all
>the imms would take control
>of cabal guardians like you
>do, but since they don't/won't/can't,
>it just makes the playing
>field a bit uneven when
>you do so.

Read the above statement. In no way have I ever made village mobs give an unfair advantage in a raid. I think that should be clarified.

>
>In summary, I think the villagers
>are already very powerful (though
>not inherently overpowered) as
>- they rarely lose the head
>because many cabals are not
>permitted to take it.
>Likewise they usually command the
>advantage of numbers against quite
>a few enemies because those
>enemies are not permitted to
>attack villagers, and so never
>have the advantage themselves
>- what they miss out on
>by foregoing magic can largely
>be replaced by a bard.

Not really. A village bard is helpful yes. The class isn't the deciding factor of a fight by any means.

> (I'm assuming the assistance
>of communers and mages is
>going to become a thing
>of the past now that
>you're back.)

That depends on your outlook of 'assistance.' Had I seen the actions of two villagers and one paladin, I'd have flexed some immortal muscle. Armand was kicked out of the village for traveling with a paladin who wore invisible clothing. This goes to show that when I'm around, I do monitor the cabal.

>Give the above, I don't think
>the village should also have
>the benefit of
>- occasional divine protection from large
>groups chasing them
>- a cabal guardian who suddenly
>doubles in effectiveness
>
>unless the rest of the playing
>field gets similar help.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting here. The Destructor hasn't changed for years. If you think it gets 'divine help' during raids you're sorely mistaken.

>Anyway, I appreciate that you've not
>been able to watch over
>things recently owing to more
>important things. Again, this
>is not intended to be
>a flame, just my request
>for some changes that in
>my opinion would be for
>the greater good.

Not a problem. I appreciate you voicing your concerns in a constructive post. I hope I answered them in a similar fashion.
If you have any further comments/questions, please bring them to my official forum. Cranikun must be rolling over in his grave here :)

I just thought I would mention that Creon didn't have the title he has on the pillar, mainly because he wasn't a hero when he died to con loss due to those trannies. However, I do like the title he was given, because it was fitting.

I'm not sure why Vassagon would be an overshadowing for you. From the time he hit 53 til now I've maybe seen him visisble once, and I'm not even sure if he was around. BoltThrower came in an helped when Nimbus couldn't be there, if I'm correct...which I'm sure you can tell me. However, I basically played only ragers until this last year, and we never...never heard a peep out of Vassagon. He had a tattoo supposedly, but no one ever saw it, or had it that I knew. I like that your visible in the Game. Nimbus was always fun because he would "bash" you if you did something stupid. However, Jhyrbian makes a point that you aren't very positive, but rather you lead negatively. Positive reinforcement goes a lot farther in any situation.

laters,
Minyar

>It would be easier to seperate
>the character from the imm
>if some questionable things were
>changed in the village (Some
>of the people on the
>Pillar and the fact that
>Hildebran is the berserker mob
>in the village just ruin
>credibility).

I'm not quite sure why I have to keep explaining myself but to clear the slate about the current village - Everything that is currently in the village was run by other people. Especially the names of people on the Pillar. Yes, I probably missed someone that 'you' thought was a great character, but I think I managed to catch the majority of good ragers who had something unique about them. These names not coming from only me, but from a great deal of the immortal staff.

Also keep in
>mind that the village has
>survived by rallying around some
>of the more inspirational people
>in the village. Your
>mortal character was very inspirational,
>some names like Kaerk, Josiah,
>and Sendrik also come to
>mind. I'm aware that
>the character Thror may have
>fleshed out in a few
>different directions, but the fact
>remains that he's about as
>inspirational as those ragers who
>quit out when things are
>rough and log on their
>other cabal'd chars.

I'm not really sure what this comment pertains to. Thror gave his best and died more times than I can imagine. Most due to odds that were completely against him. Throw me a bone here eh?


You might want to consider taking
>a new angle, cause right
>now being a battlerager is
>a cold and lifeless affair
>compared to the inspirational sort
>of experience that made us
>roll ragers over and over
>again. Most of us
>appreciate ditching the honor requirement
>because it was obnoxious, but
>you didn't have to strip
>ragers of their pride as
>well...

You are welcome also to post your ideas and feedback on my official forum. I've heard arguements that are completely opposite of your arguement. Which only makes me wonder if it is just you who dislike the new take on ragers or a large populace of people. I touched base on why this could be the case earlier in the year and that post might be helpful to read if you've not yet read it. As I stated above...I don't 'make' Battle. It's the characters who play the cabal that do. I'm just an overseer of the cabal.

P.S. - Under the leadership of Intronan, things have been rather interesting. I think he's managed to do with the new plaque what most people are looking for.

>I'm not quite sure why I
>have to keep explaining myself
>but to clear the slate
>about the current village -
>Everything that is currently in
>the village was run by
>other people. Especially the
>names of people on the
>Pillar. Yes, I probably
>missed someone that 'you' thought
>was a great character, but
>I think I managed to
>catch the majority of good
>ragers who had something unique
>about them. These names
>not coming from only me,
>but from a great deal
>of the immortal staff.

Fair enough, but I don't have to tell you how disconnected the immortal staff can be rather disconnected from the playerbase. It would have been nice if you asked us... cause quite frankly we're impressed by far different things than they are... and as you often say, the players should dictate.

>I'm not really sure what this
>comment pertains to. Thror
>gave his best and died
>more times than I can
>imagine. Most due to
>odds that were completely against
>him. Throw me a
>bone here eh?
>

As I said... Thror was very inspirational in his mortal life. But the immortal char is tremendously judgemental and treats ragers like children. The new cabal rules are often walking a fine line and the rager I played (the first one inducted under the new rules... though I gave him up after about 30 hours or so) just constantly felt he had somebody looking over his shoulder. That's not inspirational at all.


>You are welcome also to post
>your ideas and feedback on
>my official forum. I've
>heard arguements that are completely
>opposite of your arguement.
>Which only makes me wonder
>if it is just you
>who dislike the new take
>on ragers or a large
>populace of people. I
>touched base on why this
>could be the case earlier
>in the year and that
>post might be helpful to
>read if you've not yet
>read it. As I
>stated above...I don't 'make' Battle.
>It's the characters who play
>the cabal that do.
>I'm just an overseer of
>the cabal.

Well, Jhyrbian, Abernyte, Myself, and Josiah have publically expressed our discontent... and that accounts for a whole lot of chars that have been vets, leaders, notable ragers in general... I've heard a few other oldies express some anger about the new changes, but I wont speak for them. So far the only people i've seen defending the changes are fairly new to cf or the cabal in general... and if they're vets they were never veteran ragers. If somebody would like to speak up, then by all means... I have no idea what the majority think, just know what i've heard. Oh, and something i'll briefly address from another post in the thread... you said you felt like you were under the shadow of Vassagon, Boltthrower, and Nimbus. It's true, they were fantastic imms... but in some respects you aren't even trying to follow in their footsteps with the traditions that made everybody love the cabal so much. My main piece of advice would be this... imm invis yourself and let the cabal take care of itself. Let the leadership deal with any ragers you feel aren't up to par... and if you have a problem with how he's doing this than privately speak with him. All of those previous great imms let Battle handle itself and ocassionally dropped in to give us a cool quest or some inspiration. Sometimes they'd have to regulate on cheaters or some really obvious rule breakers... but largely they'd let the vets and leader handle it all. While I was a rager almost everything you said on the cb was negative and resulted in a minor rift in the cabal between brown-nosers and malcontents.


>P.S. - Under the leadership of
>Intronan, things have been rather
>interesting. I think he's
>managed to do with the
>new plaque what most people
>are looking for.


I might try it out, we'll see how much interest I can generate in cf right now, it's waning. From what i've seen you've basically created a new cabal that some people seem to enjoy, so well done on that... it's just you have to expect that people are going to be mad about the old battle being gone... because you just can't even compare it to the new village.

>P.S. - Under the leadership of
>Intronan, things have been rather
>interesting. I think he's
>managed to do with the
>new plaque what most people
>are looking for.


Under the leadership yes, with intronan gone battle is about to go into one of the deepest nosedives in history.
The rites are next(this) week? and the potentials leaders are amongst the most abused on any forums re: battleragers or hold minimal respect in the cabal.

I wait till i delete before i make further comment

p.s. down below you say you haven't been running the cabal in 3months? wtf who is? i've been complaining because i've not seen an imm more than twice in a month - now i know why.

Whats up Thror,
Well, lets start by saying that I didn't mean to say I dislike the person who plays Thror, since I don't know you, how could I. However, I have never liked Thror as a player, Imm, whatever. Thats just my personal opinion which you can take afront to. I think I've seen enough unfair practices in my opinion that my response to Thror as a mortal has never been good. Yeah, it was fun to see you as the Destructor when I was in the village. Believe me, all those times when Creon was getting destroyed at the Destructor could have been better with some help. If you remember or not, Creon came right when the tranny changes came and I had a wolverine coming at me all the time. I understand that you think you're doing what is best for the village, and thats fine..do what you must. However, I know for myself and other "old school" ragers, the Battle cabal doesn't hold the same inspiration, as Laios called it, as it used to. Until recently, I've basically only played ragers, with the exception of a shadow and an arbiter. The Shadow was probably my favorite character of all time, and one of my most successful, but then there went the Shadow cabal. I don't know though, something about the old days of ragers will always be my favorite. We were almost always outgunned, and that made it fun. I actually love to, and thrive in those situations. (its easier to look like a hero when your outmanned) Maybe someday I'll come back to the village and try to bring back some real courage...(IMO) but for now I'll try different things.
Thror, I know you do a good job, but our personalities clash, so for now. I will agree to disagree and play characters to fight against you. I originally made my shadow character to piss of Cador because of some things that happened with one of my Knights. It was my goal to kill every hero Knight and with the exception of Timmorn, I did it. Then I immed with him, but a certain Imp didn't like me, so I didn't last long. Its cool though, I didn't have the itme for coding and all that anyway.

No hard feelings,
Minyar

>Whats up Thror,
> Well, lets start by
>saying that I didn't mean
>to say I dislike the
>person who plays Thror, since
>I don't know you, how
>could I. However, I
>have never liked Thror as
>a player, Imm, whatever.
>Thats just my personal opinion
>which you can take afront
>to. I think I've
>seen enough unfair practices in
>my opinion that my response
>to Thror as a mortal
>has never been good.

Fair enough.

>Yeah, it was fun to
>see you as the Destructor
>when I was in the
>village. Believe me, all
>those times when Creon was
>getting destroyed at the Destructor
>could have been better with
>some help.

When Creon was getting beat around (man did I pity him) I was just a heroimmortal. There is very little you can do as a heroimmortal compared to a level 55 immortal. Hopefully that sheds some light on things.

If you
>remember or not, Creon came
>right when the tranny changes
>came and I had a
>wolverine coming at me all
>the time. I understand
>that you think you're doing
>what is best for the
>village, and thats fine..do what
>you must. However, I
>know for myself and other
>"old school" ragers, the Battle
>cabal doesn't hold the same
>inspiration, as Laios called it,
>as it used to.

I can agree to some aspects of Laois's arguement. Does it have to be this way? No, by all means the direction of any cabal is very much dictated by the members who play the cabal.

>Until recently, I've basically only
>played ragers, with the exception
>of a shadow and an
>arbiter. The Shadow was
>probably my favorite character of
>all time, and one of
>my most successful, but then
>there went the Shadow cabal.
> I don't know though,
>something about the old days
>of ragers will always be
>my favorite. We were
>almost always outgunned, and that
>made it fun. I
>actually love to, and thrive
>in those situations. (its
>easier to look like a
>hero when your outmanned) Maybe
>someday I'll come back to
>the village and try to
>bring back some real courage...(IMO)
>but for now I'll try
>different things.

I'll hold you up to that :P

> Thror, I know you do
>a good job, but our
>personalities clash, so for now.
> I will agree to
>disagree and play characters to
>fight against you. I
>originally made my shadow character
>to piss of Cador because
>of some things that happened
>with one of my Knights.

I've never understood this method of vengeance. I could argue that this is only a game, and creating a character to 'get back at an immortal' isn't going to work. You'd basically just be making life hard for a particular cabal. From what I understand, some players choose this route of revenge...though I'll be the first to admit that I could meet one character and think - God that guy is a total asshole - and later find out that the same person behind a different character interacted with one of my mortals. This gives a totally different perspective on that individual. Kadsuane, Jhyrbian and others come to mind...

These players have "in the past, not necessarily the present" disliked me (possibly Thror) but I've come to see they have the potential to be different than I initially percieve them to be.


> It was my goal
>to kill every hero Knight
>and with the exception of
>Timmorn, I did it.
>Then I immed with him,
>but a certain Imp didn't
>like me, so I didn't
>last long. Its cool
>though, I didn't have the
>itme for coding and all
>that anyway.
>
>No hard feelings,
>Minyar

No hard feelings. If you'd like to discuss anything further about the Battle Cabal, please feel free to post your ideas/opinions on my forum. This was really meant to be a tribute to Cranikun :)

From what
>I understand, some players choose
>this route of revenge...though I'll
>be the first to admit
>that I could meet one
>character and think - God
>that guy is a total
>asshole - and later find
>out that the same person
>behind a different character interacted
>with one of my mortals.
> This gives a totally
>different perspective on that individual.
> Kadsuane, Jhyrbian and others
>come to mind...
>
>These players have "in the past,
>not necessarily the present" disliked
>me (possibly Thror) but I've
>come to see they have
>the potential to be different
>than I initially percieve them
>to be.

I dont particulary dislike you as a person. Hell I dont even dislike Thror all that much. I remember you all the way back you and your chum CW were playing Glanduin and Fehteral. Yet I dislike what you have done with battle. So much so that I could never really play a battlerager ever again. My dislike for you as an imm and as a character started with that whole Thror quest. Back when I was playing Vizarsh, that quest sucked so hard that when I finally deleted viz I was totally frustrated with it. Then came my bard having had enough of an extremely poorly planned and poorly run quest I decided not to involve my self in it with my bard. I found an rp angle and went with it. 80% of battle threatned to kill me, other 20% refused to even group with me. Then we had another little run in and when the ranger mob in the village casted his ranger spells. And I ended up getting attacked, killed, full looted and then kicked from battle. I wont go into the details we already went down that road. Ofcourse I did then and still do think it had something to do with the fact that I didnt want any part of the quest and was vocal about it. Then came the boots and kicks of many ragers that just happened to get on your bad side. For stupid reasons to boot. Doing stuff that others have been doing for years and years. Remember that gnome warrior you kicked out for asking for help when he was slept by a necromancer? Did we ever kick gelkof out for asking for help or cutting link during raids? Ofcourse not. And now we have this whole bit about switching into the destructor and fucking over people. Talk to other imms how many other cabal imm's actively take part in raids? How is this any different from say Thror coming down and killing a few mages during raid? Is it not enough that battle has a hideously powerfull inner guardian? Do we really need an immortal controlling him? And most people dont even bitch about that.
And recently this new change to battle, rules that made battle battle have all been tossed out. Battle really doesnt even have a place in the game any more. There is no cabal that directly oposes it. Its just stuck in there for people who want to play mashem bashem chars. And I am sorry most of battle even now are all mashem bashem. They mostly raid the one cabal that already has four other enemy cabals to deal with. Most dont bother raiding warlocks cause its just a hard nut to crack. As pointed out by Abernyte. And ofcourse this makes no difference but when I see nerylana raid with that maran gator/croc. I was even more disgusted with battle and what it has become under your leadership. Few years back no one would have even dreamed about raiding a cabal with a mage in the background attacking that cabal as well. But now even battlerager roleplay is up for choppin under the great axe of tactics. Yes yes we have all heard that whole if it happened I didnt see it and since I didnt see it I cant do anything about it. Its the fact that ##### kind of ##### is happening in battle now days that goes to show you how wrong things have gone.
So the question is Do I hate you? No.
Do I hate Thror? Not really
Do I hate what thror is doing? Abso-fucking-lutely.
Do I disagree with most of your decisions? You bet your hammersong ass!
Am I going to play a rager again anytime soon? Not very likely. At this rate we are going to have ragers accepting sancs and hastes before raids in no time. Ofcourse most will say battleragers will never do that. But that used to be said about ragers killing people with summoners and ragers raiding with mages too.

I hope that clears up things for you.
Much Love

Acidic Parv

alright all right. I used to play a couple ragers and as pintose I really loved them. You may remember him as the one who slaughtered everyone in thr rights and hildebran screwed over. Thror has a good idea... adding tactics to battle. The problem is they are unimaginitive, basically its just okay they got 3 people lets get 4! There are exceptions of course, But the way ragers are they should easily be able to handle a group of 1 or 2 solo. I think the change to tactics should just mean they don't have to attack when they have 3 hp. Perhaps let them fight in pairs, but i don't see any reason why they would need more then 2... 2 ragers can easily handle a much larger party if they have half a clue and use their strengths. No 2 cloud giant mace specs aren't gonna od much before a lion comes along and slays the first and runs from the second.

My real complaint is you calling out thror on the changes. When i was pintose the entire reason i stoped playing him was you, and my grades in school. Okay more the grades. When vizarsh took over leadership pintose and I felt betrayed, when you changed the rules to not kill those holding potions and such, pintose nearly cranialed you on the spot. I always had a very hardcore view of ragers. And back in the day maybe their weren't as many ragers... But they were definentaly better. Thror your quest sucked too i must add, as pintose I tried to be a part of it but it was too damn vague at that point in time.

Also on the switching into the destructor... don't its too fricking difficult to kill without defenders let alone a god controlling it, it kills my lion in like 5 rounds when it isn't even the principal target! with a bard the destructo should be able to easily handle about 9 warriors and kil them all without help from a god.

The lack of a tower of wizardry may be the real problem. The village was changed because a threat was percieved from 3 new cabals. First off they shouldn't even hunt nexus, besides the bond(which except with transmutters) is entirly useless, they are the same as the tribunalas or sylvan or entropy in that its just a cabal of mized warriors and mages. Except theyt don't get powers because there is never anyone to bond with. Yet whenever i play my nexan i always seem to not have the link, i never see any odds less then 4 on 1 when you come to raid, except when you have nerylana which counts as 2 people cause of phantasmal fiend and when you don't see me and resisting. htose 3 songs make any villager invincible. The scions don't even care about the village, and neither do the warlocks because they always have enough defenders. so basically the whole war is against the rift who isn't even allowed to take the head most of the time.

I would kill to just get transform but neutral mages cannot nor can they get tome or any other useful powers because none of the neutral cabals help magic, unless a conjurer bonds with a bard or a transmutter with a warrior/thief. invokers are basically screwed cause no bond is particularily beneficial... ack i am off topic so i will leave it at that done my ranting for now.

And now we have this whole bit about switching into the destructor and fucking over people. Talk to other imms how many other cabal imm's actively take part in raids? How is this any different from say Thror coming down and killing a few mages during raid? Is it not enough that battle has a hideously powerfull inner guardian? Do we really need an immortal controlling him? And most people dont even bitch about that.

As Thror stated elsewhere in this thread: "Let me clear this up, since I think you and others are probably misunderstood. When I 'animate' a mob, I make the mob speak/yell. Nothing more. To animate a mob with the intent of killing the raider would be an abuse of my powers and the other immortals would not tolerate it."

So let's kill this rumor, yes? It's false.

From the pen of:
valguarnera@carrionfields.com">Valguarnera Trisseptia

>I see nerylana raid with
>that maran gator/croc. I was
>even more disgusted with battle
>and what it has become
>under your leadership. Few years
>back no one would have
>even dreamed about raiding a
>cabal with a mage in
>the background attacking that cabal
>as well. But now even
>battlerager roleplay is up for
>choppin under the great axe
>of tactics.

I have been keeping to the sidelines here, but I got a comment on this. I remember this raid well... it was quite fun actually being up against so many enemies. However, I feel I need to point out... The Igakie would come in when we were fighting then would flee out before we could strike him (or right after we would strike him), and even so I did my best to land some songs on him. But as a matter of point.. I killed him on the caravan road (Well I think he actually died at his pit, after he worded from me), right after we'd taken the Sceptre. At no time were we in cahoots with him..in fact to opposite - he was slayed. But, I must say, I dont fault others for seeing us all in the same area, and thinking we were cooperating in some way... raids are quick and confusing at times... and it's hard to tell who is fighting who.

Just thought I'd clear that up.

On another note.

This is not my first villager. Though I don't consider myself an "old skool" rager, I have had several rager heros from many different time periods (dating back to the disbanding of knights). There is nothing wrong with the way battle is now. Yes, it is different. But then, as I'm sure others have pointed out... the war is different. I liken it to this:

For anyone following semi-current events, the army just switched headgear, so that all soldiers wear black berets now, previously resereved for only elite Rangers. Army Rangers, past and present were up in arms! Oh god, what kind of change is this! How could they change what always was?! Those bastards! So they (rangers) switched to Tan Berets. And what do ya know.. things are more or less back to normal. The change was needed, in the Generals and politicians eyes, to bring a better morale and fighting spirit to the common troops. The point being... change is hard. No one wants to see the old way of things, the way they have always known, swept out.

I say take it in stride.

Who is the bigger winner?

Someone who had an unbeatable rager when it was easy to? Or someone who has one in this current time, when it ain't so easy?

Nerylana, not infering she is the latter of those two.

I have had several rager heros from many different time periods (dating back to the disbanding of knights).

Just reading this i'm wondering what people regard as old school. For me the disbanding of the knights is a relatively recent event in my disjointed timeline that is CF and there are other rager players out there who have played for even longer than i. I've just seen some people claiming that they are old school yet have played a relatively short duration.

This isn't snobbery it's an honest question because terms like "old school ragers think this or that" are being bandied about - who do they speak for?

This argument is showing more and more that there are difference even in what (i consider) "old school" ragers want.

I just need to ask a question, because you say you played hero ragers back before the Knights disbanded...and thats fine. I would consider you to be old school, in fact, when your done, I'd like to know who they were, until that time though, I want to ask if you ever had a rager who wasn't in power? I mean this, I've played many ragers who were always the underdogs...Chalin included in that scenario. (like those run on sentences, yeah, I'm tired) Anyway, the comment you made about a rager who was unbeatable seems a little far-fetched as we all know that the theran pendulum swings and one cabal is usually in greater power than another. Right now I would say Sylvan is probably leading the way with the Fortress right behind. However, I believe with the current state of things, the Fortress is definately set up to be in power more often as they have three separate cabals all under one roof.

I'd still like to see Scion warriors be granted a little more help than they have. Maybe this should be done by a Scion mage power for casting on them, which would fit better in the scheme of the "Night." I don't know...I'd like to hear thoughts on this.

I hope that made sense, I'm a bit tired,
Aaron aka Minyar

n/t

>Having a stab back at being
>a rager and thought, Iolanthe
>was fun, lets go cloud
>ranger again but scout this
>time. Scouts are good fun
>and really rape shifters.
>The early deletion is out of
>disgust more than anything. Disgust
>at the fact that the
>Immortals of Carrionfields give every
>class skills/spells enough to fight
>survive and exist alone but
>noone ever seems to fight
>alone at all. The lack
>of courage makes the game
>really unplayable at times. The
>nexus were fine but only,
>I suppose, due to lack
>of members. The scions were
>alright too in their way
>with only one group of
>6 fighting me but they
>were raiding. The warlocks aka
>the fortress are by far
>the worst sniffling little wretches
>going. You leave a snare
>outside because your a villager
>in the new village and
>wish to avoid fighting marans
>or dawn warriors and only
>fight the mages but hell
>on a stick if you
>ever get a chance to.

Thus the plight of being a battlerager. Understand it was worse when Courage dictated that you had to go out and face that group of six. Now, as a rager you are not bound to do so. Take them out one by one. Find better terrain or better odds to face that group. By no means should you become like that which you are fighting, but you should have the sense to know when to fight or flight.

>They hide inside and/or wait
>till the whole fortress is
>assembled then they come and
>talk ##### afterwards and this
>just did my head in.
>These three cabals need three
>seperate locations. Matters were made
>worse due to one of
>the marans requesting aid in
>getting his clothes back from
>two nexus lions so we
>did that while we raided.


>Myself, Nerylana and selfren who
>died in about 10 seconds.
>He then takes great gleee,
>it appears, to join in
>the hammering of me when
>I wanted to fight the
>'fortress' mages.

Remember that we are all human. Breaking character to get 'revenge' usually happens to the best of us. It also tends to be the tragic downfall of really good players. I remember in all the years of playing an Aussie who has had similar outbursts :)

Gangbangs happen and
>its alright when its a
>rarity but its ALL the
>time and its really tiresome
>and really spoils CF in
>general. CF classes are well
>balanced enough for people to
>fight and outwit each other
>one on one. Sort yourselves
>out!

I agree. There is an element of pride when you can hold your own against the odds. Perhaps that was the reason people loved playing ragers before, though it's also the reason people deleted from the cabal when things got rough. Battle seems to have a very high turnover, regardless of what year it is. I'm glad to see that you continued with the tradition of BattleRager characters. I honestly spotted this one from a mile away. You're so easy to pick out of the flock :)

Luck on your next character.
HammerSong



>-----Abernyte

I never got to fight you other than the one time you ambushed me outside the fortress after I was fighting your groupmates. (I was young and dont think I had my final form.) You hit hard, and it wasnt much of a fight.

I completely understand your frustration...
Well done, and take care.