Fri Feb 17 15:36:42 2023

At 7 o'clock AM, Day of Freedom, 18th of the Month of the Winter Wolf
on the Theran calendar Kardea perished, never to return.

Race:	human
Class:	conjurer
Level:	45
Alignment:	Good
Ethos:	Neutral
Cabal:	FORTRESS, the Fortress of Light
Age:	52
Hours:	251

So I guess it’s time to chime in. Since my character is gone, I figure I’d call out some of your biased view of your characters.

The first time I beat up on your orc, and not long after your thief, logged in and stole my no disarm weapon I was willing to let go.

I just avoided you on both characters as much as I could after that, but the last time was the straw that broke the camels back you threw comments at me from your orc about not liking to fight me when I had a weapon that wouldn’t get disarmed we fought a little bit as Klag. Then no more than five minutes after I sent you running you logged out Klag and logged in your thief and made a beeline for me on eastern where you put me a thief Waylay and commenced to steal everything you could. First time I was willing to let it go that time not so much maybe next time do you think carefully about how you’re going to interact when you’re running multiple characters because it for sure was you trying to weekend your orcs enemies with your thief. And that for sure was cheating 100% and yes I reported it. And provided logs at the time I believe.

As for your conjurer it for sure, tainted my outlook on your conjurer which I don’t think is my problem I think it’s your problem. Play one character and you don’t have these problems.

>As for your conjurer it for sure, tainted my outlook on your conjurer which I don’t think is my problem I think it’s your problem. Play one character and you don’t have these problems.

I think its important to realize that if you are treating characters different based on their player, it is 1000000% a you problem not the other way around.

One of the most important things we try to do in this game is treat each character as an individual being, not the player behind them. The moment that goes away everything falls apart.

Easy to say from the sidelines. The guy is as a massive cheat. Not just a little….a lot.

Again, get me once with your cheat, ok, I am willing to move on. Get me twice and the second time way more egregious and obvious… no thanks

To be clear, I didn’t go ooc on this third char, I didn’t break role, beyond maybe one sentence I said between event 1 and 2 where I asked him if he thought that his thief was trying to weaken me for his orc.

To close, if you cheat, soooo blatantly that you get 2/3 of your characters denied, I am ok with giving your remaining character as much cold shoulder as I want. There nothing wrong with that.

Same goes for people who’s RP is sooo abrasive that I just pretty much ignore them after they start in because it ruins the game sooo much. *cough*funnyone *cough*


So yeah it’s a him problem. Cheaters are cheaters.

If a player is blatantly cheating, it's absolutely normal (not to mention smart) to be wary of the other characters that cheater is playing. Cheating makes the game less fun, and you can't reasonably expect a player to look the other way and pretend like it isn't happening.

I would disagree with Welverin though - at that point it isn't the cheater's problem, or Welv's problem. It's your problem as the staff. You're allowing a player to cheat and make the game worse for everyone else. That's on you (collectively, not you personally), no one else.


Side note.. I think it's weird the way the staff has turned around and is actively defending someone that they already punished for cheating. This isn't an "innocent until provem guilty" thing, even. I miss the days when ol' Biff Plankchest would make an appearance and the world would know what happened. Or at least the cheater would fade away without comment. Guess times have changed. Time for me to crawl back into my hole.

You're making a big mistake there.

That someone is guilty of X doesn't mean they're guilty of Y.

X gets punished, but why wouldn't we defend them against inaccurate accusations of Y? Instead, be upset at them for the thing they ACTUALLY did, not the stuff they didn't.

But if a player is guilty of cheating, then that player is a cheater. His actions don't go away just because he logged into a different character.

And if I, as a non-cheating player, know that another character is played by a cheater, what would you suggest I do? Pretend that I don't realize it, and just wait until I personally get screwed over?

I'm not stupid enough to follow that policy. I don't think you are either.

That's not what I said, is it? Though it's cool that you can respond to things in your head that didn't come from me.

I defended someone by saying they DID NOT do what someone accused them of.

That's it. I didn't say anything beyond that. I didn't say he wasn't a cheater, or that you can't think of him as one, or whatever.

I just said that my defense was justified since it clarified as to the point of accusation.

Witch-hunts are fun, but being a witch, they aren't really my thing.

You're right. I probably shouldn't have included you in my response.

I conflated your response and the response of other Imms a little bit. You didn't defend him from valid cheating accusations (as far as I know).

I was responding more to the overall tone and the fact that the defense was happening in the first place though. In an ideal world, the player wouldn't even be around to be defended, because you wouldn't allow cheaters to continue playing.

To be clear, I made my initial complaint Ish was totally cool with everything and did what needed doing. And I do not blame IMMs for Mackle choosing to cheat, nor do I think they have the time or responsibility to spend a crapton of time policing things that aren't reported. I was 100% ok with the action taken, though if it were me, I would probably have yanked all his current characters just because smoke and fire and all. But its not up to me, and I understand that.

We don't punish prior to rules violations. Its not against the rules to have multiple characters. Soon as it pushed into a rules violation that was reported, it got handled. Not sure what else was supposed to happen.

In regards to this particular character, they committed no rules violations and were a generally good character. Other players treating this character differently because of the player is very much a bigger problem than this player having multiple characters to me.

Players do. This character never broke rules, but the player absolutely did. That much isn't even debated.

This player broke rules, so the player should be the one held accountable for that. Waiting for an individual character to break rules is just silly.

I think that's the big disconnect - you're pretending like this character was isolated from his other (cheating) characters. But it isn't. It's the player that broke those rules regardless of which character was logged in at the time.

I honestly don't understand why you and Ish are trying so hard to look the other way and pretend like the characters were a problem, rather than the player behind the characters. It's your game so you can do what you want, but it's definitely a weird way of enforcing rules.

So let’s be clear. We are supposed to ignore a guy who serially cheated with these characters. Twice on me and as other have stated multiple times on them, and just treat the other character that no cheating was proven(doesn’t mean it didn’t happen btw) and because we won’t just turn a blind eye to someone and move on, we are the worse problem here? I think we need a reset here. Because that’s way out of whack.

Fact: he used multiple characters I. A way that directly benefited each other. A case could be made that Kardea was used to fair weather login/scout enemies.
Fact: it happened multiple times to multiple people.
Fact: once it was reported by me, I have no insight as to others reports, it took a bit but was resolved for 2/3 of this guys characters. And that’s a good thing, imms deserve praise for working on it when it was noticed

Not a fact: that this guy is anywhere near innocent. Where there’s smoke there’s fire. Just because we don’t have evidence of his cheating with Kardea, does not mean it didn’t happen, and others are right to be wary and treat him differently

Did you find out he played all the characters from an OOC means? There is a very high probability that the answer to that question is yes, which would then mean that you and whomever you talk to are also cheaters. If that answer is no then congratulations on being one of the only people who has never done something suspicious in CF.

If we start enforcing the rules on feeling vs actual incidents, I would need to deny everyone. And that seems like a big loss for the collective mud.

gr

Sorry I didn't respond on your timeline, Sometimes I actually do something on on the PC or my phone... Not often mind, but sometimes. If you want to be snarky and make comments at least have the guts to do it without hiding behind anonymous posts.

Because in the past it was definitely frowned upon for anyone to accuse another player of cheating publicly. People have been banned from these forums for less than that.

Regardless, there are plenty of ways you could find out who someone is playing without cheating. I could message you and say "Hey Dest, I'm playing Joe Paladin.". Or, I could say "Hey Dest, Welv is playing Mikey the Monk". Or you could just pay attention to patterns of behavior and put it together yourself.

Each of those examples happen all the time.. probably far more often than anything malicious. Not to mention the fact that merely discussing with someone who you think someone else is playing isn't actually against any game rules.


Here's a serious question for you: Why is it ok for an Imm to publicly suggest that a specific player is cheating, without having any proof of cheating?

Everyone wants to get all high and mighty and attempt to crucify the actions of players they don't like but they are perfectly okay with ####ty behavior from players they do like.

I dislike ####ty behavior universally and I don't care who is behind it. I also wait until I have been provided evidence before I do anything that has actual weight to it.

I asked a question and stated two possible comments depending on the answer. If you take that as me suggesting someone is a cheater then I don't really know what to tell you.

Question for you: Do you actually believe that communicating about who plays who in ooc avenues is a harmless undertaking? How about if you start treating those characters different because of the player behind them, like not inducting them into a cabal or something? Or refusing to interact with them as a member of the same cabal?

As I stated a long time ago in this whole ordeal: I think that the harm of interacting with player vs character is a far bigger problem than someone having multiple characters and not breaking rules.

You asked a question, but before waiting for a response you immediately said the following:

"There is a very high probability that the answer to that question is yes, which would then mean that you and whomever you talk to are also cheaters."

You just stated publicly that there is a "very high probability" that Welverin is a cheater. Without any evidence that it is true, and without even referencing the rule that he supposedly broke. You can go ahead and nitpick about whether that is a suggestion that he's a cheater.. but I think it's pretty obvious. If I said the same of you, I'd almost definitely get banned from the forums.


As far as your question: I think it is entirely harmless if it isn't done with ill-intentions and doesn't impact how you play the game. As a general rule, I agree that making IC decisions based off of OOC knowledge of who is playing characters is a bad thing.

That said - YOU (again, collectively as a staff) are allowing a known cheater to play the game. This cheater has used the knowledge/actions of one of his characters to benefit the other character while causing harm to rule-abiding players.

Given that information (which everyone seems to agree on), I think it's entirely understandable that other players would avoid the cheater. Doing anything else opens them up to becoming a victim of the known cheater and ruining their own experience in the game. That's an unreasonable ask.

So what's the resolution? Stop letting known cheaters continue to play the game. That's it.


And just for clarity: This isn't about people playing multiple characters without breaking rules. I've argued that it should be allowed several times. This is about cheaters who are actively cheating, yet allowed to continue to play the game.

So I chortled when I see you complain about someone else doing it =)

Or intentionally ignoring the point of every single comment I respond to.

Your opinion matters to literally no one.

You may disagree, but I think the punishment that was handed out in this situation 100% fit the presented information.

The court of public opinion can attempt to forever drag someone down for some gear manipulation all they want, but that is not an egregious enough thing in my mind to warrant a perma ban. Denial of multiple characters that had a few hundred hours of time invested into them? Absolutely.

So, let me get this straight.... It wasn't just gear manipulation. It was in fact this guy went out of his way to interact, Not RP mind you, to just thief Waylay a character, take a weapon that arguably made him much much less effective against his other character. Even mentioned it in game after I got back a weapon that he couldn't steal.... the SECOND time he did it.... He used the situation to his advantage for certain the first time and killed my character with grapple;bash not long after, maybe 24 hours... I'm not sure. Then gets so brazen that he does the same thing only the login time between the characters was 5 min. I'm curious, if you were the person that this happened to as a player, and you found out that not only were you the not the only one he'd done this too, but he had in fact a THIRD character. How would you have reacted? The fact is the characters don't cheat, as java said, the player does. Tell me again, how this gets equivocated with my finding out OOC that this guy had the third char and not fully trusting the player any more, so much so that yeah, I pushed myself away from him RP wise.... Please I want to understand your thinking here.

My thinking is pretty cut and dry: characters get a clean slate on creation, player antics decide how heavy violations get punished. No violations mean I don't have a reason to come after the player as an admin.

You are a better person than me then. I try hard to give it the same go, but when the cheating directly impacts me and is a real attempt to ruin my funstick I get a little more reserved. Again, asside from one tell I sent in between the two situations, I never used the OOC knowledge to my gain or any other characters detriment. To be honest, I was mostly hoping that the tell would put him on notice that I had an inkling and he should knock it off. Seems it did not.

Should the tell have resulted in a deny for you if repoeted? Or is that something that Dest or Ish would allow? Just trying to determine whete the line is drawn? As i have prayed about people who have sent me OOC tells as well, but never seen any action.

Deny, likely not, ROTD and told to knock it off, yeah, I'd have accepted that. At the end of the day, his actions speak much louder than his words.

Which rule is it you are accusing me of breaking/Cheating? I do my best to not break the rules with my characters. But to my knowledge there is no rule out there that says we cannot discuss characters OOC, so long as we do not use that information to influence the game(See Permagroup). So please, help me understand now that you are accusing me of cheating, which rule(s) did I break?

As I stated before, yes, knowing that he was that player definitely colored my RP in ways, though not overly OOC, that made me not want to interact with this char in any but the most basic and required situations per fort Dogma. Let me be more specific. I still healed and would have healed Kardea because that was Fort dogma and the right thing to do. I still spoke with them over CB, if a bit more limited than I previously would have. I still raided with them, I still did all the things my character HAD to do with them. But I did not go out of my way to interact beyond that point. Nor did I take my RP ooc, Or cause any kind of poor consequences for their Character. In fact, when they smoked a goodie mob, I did try to RP with them a bit... But at the end of the day, with the flagrant cheating, and targeting of characters that he couldn't beat in a straight up fight.... Yeah, it left a bad taste in my mouth, as it should yours, my serious question is why isn't it?

You're openly admitting to breaking this:
* If you know another player OOC, treat their character as you would any other.

Not to mention:
* If a staff member makes a decision regarding rules or gameplay (in person
or otherwise), you are expected to comply with it.

You admit to finding out who played Kardea via OOC means and you treated Kardea different in game because of it. Both of which are against the rules. At least you're being honest about it.

"You admit to finding out who played Kardea via OOC means and you treated Kardea different in game because of it. Both of which are against the rules. At least you're being honest about it."

You are seriously making my admission of pulling back a little with Kardea.. With his actual cheating? I mean really? And still doing it hiding behind anonymous posting?

>To be clear, I didn’t go ooc on this third char, I didn’t break role, beyond maybe one sentence I said between event 1 and 2 where I asked him if he thought that his thief was trying to weaken me for his orc.

I think your actions are the lesser of two evils by a longshot, but I certainly don't think you're an innocent in the exchange either.

The point of this is to remind everyone that we leave a lot in the gray area so that the people at the computers can still try to have fun.

This whole thing is tiresome though and sadly all its doing is making it look like mackle might have been right the whole time about the way people interact around him.

"This whole thing is tiresome though and sadly all its doing is making it look like mackle might have been right the whole time about the way people interact around him."

Because he CHEATED..... How is this lost on people I don't know..... And it wasn't a little cheat, like picking up gear he killed a mob for his other char.... He actively went out, used ANOTHER character, to weaken an enemy of his OTHER character. I mean really, how is this something that is getting equivocated with me treating his THIRD character a little less cordially.... I don't get you?

It is not lost on people nor the Imm staff. He cheated and was punished for it. The character which were used were denied. What more do you want? You want to go and burn down his house and scrub him from the Internet? What would make you happy?

I get it, it gets frustrating but you even admit it yourself that you went ooc on his third char "hoping he would get the hint". And the accusations which was placed on the third char were deemed incorrect, hence why they did not get any punishment.

If Welverin, Java, and Jalim were discussing the player behind Kardea ooc, it makes me wonder what else they were talking about.

I'm confused as to where Jalim inserted himself anywhere in this thread or why you're bringing me into it. I didn't even go into specifics about Kardea's shady ass multicharring. I'd love to discuss the Welverin/Java/Jalim Paladin Perma with you though if you'd like to send me a direct message.

Yeah, I don't get it.... Just... Deflection I guess. When you cant dazzle them with your brilliance baffle them with your BS.

I wonder if Ancientvet is wagging the dog here....

The guard's changed.

>
>I just avoided you on both characters as much as I could after
>that, but the last time was the straw that broke the camels
>back you threw comments at me from your orc about not liking
>to fight me when I had a weapon that wouldn’t get disarmed
>we fought a little bit as Klag. Then no more than five minutes
>after I sent you running you logged out Klag and logged in
>your thief and made a beeline for me on eastern where you put
>me a thief Waylay and commenced to steal everything you could.

I agree that sounds bad, but I honestly do not recall. I tended to especially have big gaps between Tago and the other 2 since I mostly played Tago at work and never played others from work. With 45 minute drive to work. If I did a 5 minute switch then it would have been isolated incident. Tago never specifically hunted you ever, he basically would log on, go to crossroads and then just waylay anyone that showed up. I don't remember ever stealing anything off you of importance after the earlier steal, so why did you care so much? You essentially reported me for cheating because I waylayed you and then stole nothing of importance?


>First time I was willing to let it go

There was no first time, there was nothing wrong with Tago stealing your halberd and klag grappling you, they were days apart.


>going to interact when you’re running multiple characters
>because it for sure was you trying to weekend your orcs
>enemies with your thief.

Get over yourself. All the other stuff Tago stole, nobody complained like this. I also don't need to weaken you, you're a storm champ, you are one of the least lethal chars in the game, you can be ignored.

>
>As for your conjurer it for sure, tainted my outlook on your
>conjurer which I don’t think is my problem I think it’s
>your problem. Play one character and you don’t have these
>problems.

You went massively OOC with my conjurer.
You made it very clear you knew I was tago and klag with your cryptic tells about orcs, binder thieves and conjuring in the one sentence. You asked me if I knew another norem halberd and said how annoying it was that it got stolen with lots of subtle hints.
That is 100% cheating

This whole episode has been a pain in the ass. I'd like to say they were my last chars, but no doubt the MMO i am playing will get boring and the lure of CF will come. But when that happens, I will stick with 1 char from now on.

The reason for multiple chars was not what you seem to think. It's my timezone. My night time is offpeak and it gets really boring to play then on a fully finished character. I prefer to play fully finished chars when I can get on peak times. Then play an alt at night. I find that US players do the opposite, which works well, they tend to level and skill practice more in offpeak time and once finished, stick to peak times which is their preferred time. So this works really well if you from the US to play 1 char.

I'm going to call Massive BS.

1)
>You went massively OOC with my conjurer.
>You made it very clear you knew I was tago and klag with your cryptic >tells about orcs, binder thieves and conjuring in the one sentence. You >asked me if I knew another norem halberd and said how annoying it was >that it got stolen with lots of subtle hints.
>That is 100% cheating

One you have some specifics wrong. I specifically asked, "Do you think Tago is trying to weaken me for Klag. because he stole my no-disarm weapon". I never asked you where to find another one, I never mentioned tago being a binder because you never used binder skills on me, so I didn't even know Tago was a binder.

2)
>Get over yourself. All the other stuff Tago stole, nobody complained >like this. I also don't need to weaken you, you're a storm champ, you >are one of the least lethal chars in the game, you can be ignored.

It seems I'm not the only one who complained. So BS

3)
>I agree that sounds bad, but I honestly do not recall. I tended to >especially have big gaps between Tago and the other 2 since I mostly >played Tago at work and never played others from work. With 45 minute >drive to work. If I did a 5 minute switch then it would have been >isolated incident. Tago never specifically hunted you ever, he >basically would log on, go to crossroads and then just waylay anyone >that showed up. I don't remember ever stealing anything off you of >importance after the earlier steal, so why did you care so much? You >essentially reported me for cheating because I waylayed you and then >stole nothing of importance?

Again, BS, you specifically complained about my nodisarm weapon later as Klag, and then 5 min later logged in Tago to try and get it again... When you couldn't you cleaned out what you could.

Stop deluding yourself and trying to make it seem innocent. Because it for sure was not.

All I can say it was very rare for me to switch chars like that as you describe.

It's possible that I did that day, but I never went in with thinking about stealing your halberd. But all I have is my word. If you right about that time frame, then I agree it looks like that.
And sorry if I gave you that impression and ruined your experience.

If there was some subconscious urge there to grief you specifically, I can promise you, it was fuelled by you going OOC after initial steal. The initial steal was 100% legit and you could not handle it. I will die on that hill. But the later case, my recollection is so poor as nothing really happened that day, and given I got banned, I probably ####ed up.

When I lost Klag and came on to CF discord to complain about it. It seemed clear that people there knew my remaining char. I realise there are ways to figure out for those motivated (eg Jalim), but the problem is this information must get spread around by private messages. I also noticed some distance from other fort members who likely knew, people who may have died to my orc or had stuff stolen by my thief.
The person who complained about my orc/thief that resulted in which I still believe unfair denial, prior had sent me a tell with the keywords Conjuring, binder and orc in the same sentence that was obviously designed to let me know he knew my 3 chars. Seems like he didn't like me playing good, evil and neutral char at same time and wanted to get me in trouble over it.

I can play multiple chars, I can relentlessly hunt someone one day and then go out of my way to gear and level them the next day. But it seems clear other people can not handle it. So I suppose due to the weakness of others, I will have to stick to 1 char at a time when I eventually decide to return.

I would have deleted after the incident, but wanted to stick around to kill shapa, but someone beat me to it.


For those wondering, I was not afraid to hero my conjurer, I've had a number of them in the past. I just find conjurers a bit boring at hero against decent players, they bit like paladins and the only vets you solo kill are ones that are bored enough to over commit. But level 27 to 45 are so much fun. You can run, but you can not hide from Kardea :) But obviously it dries up eventually. I've not had such a high quit out rate on my login since Odaza.

But from a fortie/goodie perspective, it seemed like you scouted gear on goodies, stole it with your thief, then fed it to the orcs. Kinda fits with your history, Arolin. At some point you gotta stop cheating. You'd figure after 20 years it would be easy with maturity and wisdom playing into human growth, but that doesn't seem to factor with you. Best wishes on future characters.

A Vet

Kardea was gear obsessed with old school locate object. Powerful, sure, but by evils been in the dumps for a while. You're not bad at pk, and you know your sweet spots. You're also not afraid to do questionable RP things to get to an end. At one point Kardea had an absolutely absurd set of goodie gear which it seemed like you were just lockering away.

Tago would log on and steal/loot/sac whatever he could. Not caring if he was naked or not because hey, he's not a real char, just a tool. The fact that he was neutral was super weird because he sure acted like he was evil. If he could, he'd absolutely jack and tie you up for orcs.

Klag had a crazy set and was sort of a bash bot. I was an *ally* of orcs and literally went to talk to imms IC because orcs seemed so beyond shady.


So you had a scout, a means to steal, and (from my perspective) a weird orc perma thing happening. And this was from my perspective as primarily evils/neutral tribs.

PPS: Somehow, someway, you still managed to screw up a guaranteed massacre on team goodie in ancient blue lair by walking THROUGH the area where blue lair is and got lost. I thought you were shady, but I thought you were good enough at PK to come to the rally point where I was getting people together.

We're part of a dwindling community. A lot of us have
been playing together for the better part of two decades.
Let's please stop taking every opportunity to attack each
other. We should be thinking the BEST of each other not
the worst. At the very least let's be the example that
we want everyone else to be. Let's lift each other up,
not tear each other down. Every thread that devolves into
trash plucks at my heart strings.

Both of you (mackle and shamanman) should rejoin the
official discord. You are both missed.

Kardea didn't locate any gear, 99% of my locates were ways of finding pks. He did not care at all about gear. He simply had gear because Fortress heroes were always putting nice stuff in the chest and a few filled the chest when they deleted. The rest from pks.

Gear Locker is also the dumbest accusation. I basically did not refuse any fight and got a bunch of pk losses from over committing.

Whats the problem Klag having a crazy set. Klag got everything from pking people.

You premise is so faulty, you seem to think my objective is to gather perfect gear, conspiring with alts to make it happen then lock it away. This is not how I play.

Kardea and Klags primary objective, participate in pks and have fun. They did not care about gear, but obviously would make use of gear as it came.

Tago was not there to help the others at all. Once I started the orc, I kept Tago for 1 reason alone. For a bit of fun while at work. I can't log in proper chars at work because I can be interrupted randomly without warning. Most of the time he was just trying to steal off people to make money to boost his guild.

As for Blue lair, so I forgot the lair and sands of sorrow was same area. It's been awhile since I went to blue lair to remember that. The other lairs are separate areas. ANd I didnt get lost, I went straight to the entrance and graveslept, since you were lost and took 3 more tics to find it.

You might not intend for it to come out with some sort of inherent benefit to yourself, but if you are playing multiple characters that overlap in levels/allies/enemies you are going to have an advantage over someone who is only playing one character.

I will also fully defend your statement of mixing it up and getting fights, I've never seen you not take an available fight because you had a good set. You def calculate your odds well and even are willing to roll the dice on a not perfect chance and often profit for it.

Just so people don't have to debate it so much:
"Kardea didn't locate any gear, 99% of my locates were ways of finding pks." - Is true. When watching Kardea, pretty much every single locate object usage was to find people to kill, not to find gear.

But there was a denial for a reason on the orc and thief, so things clearly were not on the up and up as he said 100%. We’re not gonna get tho whole story and we don’t need it as players. I still believe the best way to play cf and avoid this sort of thing is to just play 1 character. Then there is no issues, doubts, or conflicts that can even happen.

watching staff members stand up for Arolin (sort of) is quite a break from the historical pattern.

How the winds can change.

I would have deleted after the incident, but wanted to stick around to kill shapa, but someone beat me to it.??
Inhad bo idea but thanks for the periapt it helped me get my first ever reward
I was done with it and I was looking for you to return it
I tried to avoid your thief like the plague since he was a binder had nothing to do with me knowing anything

You got a problem man. You got a ring of people you play with that clearly can’t keep their mouths shut and the entire mud knows your chars from not just that, but you’re an insane creature of habit. Your roleplay needs a push dude, it’s the same generic thing on all characters. Skill wise you’re top 5 in cf, sure. You lack a lot in other areas I think you could improve in to enrich your experience with other players.

I knew you had 3 characters so once I killed your conjurer and looted the super set of shinies I kept until deletion, I wouldn’t have anything to do with your orc or thief. I know people can be vindictive so no I wouldn’t have anything to do with any of them. I talk to 3 people dude. A friend from high school and 2 20 year friends, one that doesn’t even cf anymore. And we tend to play opposing cabals. If I only talk to that many people and I heard, it had to be common knowledge. I get the 411 way later than most but even I got a message saying nice kill, keep away from his alts x and x so they don’t #### you over. I had imperials in game all but hint at it.

You need to play a character and not tell a single person who you’re playing. Try that and your characters won’t get circulated. That is my honest and best advice for a better experience. Don’t play 5 chars. Focus on one good one and stop telling people who you play, it’s not worth it clearly, we all know your chars within 100 hours because you circulate it yourself.

Just my hopefully helpful 2 cents. I didn’t hate any of your chars, but it tainted my experience with all 3 of them knowing that.

you tainted your experience by chatting about other peoples characters with your OOC friends? not sure if that's a mackle problem or a you and your friends problem, maybe tell them you don't want to hear about people's characters going forward.

Any and all of my random messages to the staff. I have nothing to hide. Half of this discord sends me pms asking about builds, experiences with things I’ve played, etc. I don’t control if a cocksucker messages the whole discord and says Mackle is x x and x. If he didn’t cheat so notoriously in the past and get banned, maybe keep his business to himself he woulda been fine. Very few people knew I was Zanzar. I could count it on one hand. I sure as #### don’t have issues with my chars getting outed pre death, because I dont broadcast it to a private discord like a ####load of people have been doing. (i have screenshots of their discord group members as well that were sent to me by a disgruntled past member that left hoping I would tell the staff so they could remain anonymous, and I did tell them)

Trust me that outlander group scattered for a reason. I got the screenshots of the offenders to prove it with a nice fat wall of cheat chat.

Every person in this game knows people. Be responsible, don’t be the cheater? I just spent 400 hours in a cabal with myself. Where is my perma again?

In 2021 when I was on CF discord you spammed me a bunch of PMs.

JitsuTim — 05/17/2021 12:34 PM
Dont tell anyone but im playing a conjurer
so I am in thar quite a bit currently

JitsuTim — 05/17/2021 12:34 PM
Yeah im going for fort leader
im already 41
theres 3 scribes in fort including me
and 2 of them are total newbies
there are 0 acolytes
they arent inducting new squires till we get some balance, that was my note that got sent out recently

JitsuTim — 05/17/2021 1:02 PM
Im glad we got to talk, I do respect you greatly as a player.
I think youre really good for CF

There is a reason I blocked you. Shall I send ishuli the full transcript? I think this warrants it. Maybe he will IP ban you this time.


There is a reason I left all discord rooms, blocked people, and cut people off. I enjoy playing alone, for me.


Go ahead, find one I am in. I dare you. It doesn't exist, the only CF discord I am in is the official one. I told Amora and Jalim I was playing Zanzar too. Amora I asked bard questions before I rolled for tips and Jalim I wanted to talk about our fun RP after his chancellor. Guess what, nobody ####ing cares because I don't sit and roll 3 orcs with them after.


The difference between me and you, is I chat, and you cheat.

You don't see me getting banned bitch. I can separate game and discord, I don't sit in cheat rooms like you. I left that #### behind when I left my friendship with Torak behind. Its a toxic thing to do and i'm not gonna contribute to it like you do.

We only talked over a short window 2 years ago.
By all means send it. I didn't reveal anything. Unlike you who were happy to reveal all your secrets to a random person on discord.

I understand your reason to leave CF discord, I did the same. But technically you never blocked me, least it did not appear so from my perspective.

We both played this game long time, but the difference between us, is you're not actually a vet. You've played long enough to be one. But lack the skills for it, sorry.

I also noticed looking at those PM's from 2021, you did 95% of the talking. Verbal diarrhoea on steroids! You seem like type of guy who likes to spin a tale and brag about other peoples accomplishments.

So I got banned because Tago stole a norem halberd off someone and then a couple days later Klag grappled that person and killed them. I don't see how that ban is related to the accusation of a cheat room. I was the person with all the information. I do now agree with Dest, there is an advantage having multiple chars. You can't unlearn something. Klag started with a grapple because I did know he lacked the halberd. Though I think the punishment was a bit severe.

I can literally name your group. Get real.

i have no idea what you're talking about, you sure are proving how much above it you are with your responses. totally.

But I just log everything and save my messages so there's that.

I'm not airing names here, but someone was SO excited to roll an orc cause the GREAT Jhyrbian was rolling a goblin and he was gonna stomp the range. It's pathetic.


Actions speak louder than words. I just played 400 hours in a dead cabal. And had plenty of fun. Put up or shut up. Some of us don't want hidden benefactors to look like we are better than we are. I know I'm a middling player, but at least I respect the game enough to give it my fair shot now. More than I can say for you, and this is recent.

again, idk what you're talking about, I rolled a goblin several years? ago that I was 99% sure would suck and it did. No clue what you're talking about dude, are you feeling ok?

I'll gather the conversation and send it over to staff. It's not my job to police cheaters. You have nothing to worry about clearly if you're telling the truth. I don't care anymore.

it's cool bro, this goblin was obviously a bigger event in your life than mine, GL with all that.

Who would have thunk it.

You can’t be an aussie
You have to have had a minimum of 2 undead types
You have to play an alt in each cabal
If you don’t get a quest form on your first shifter you can’t apply
I’ll allow a coin flip for entry if people dance to me yelling be the dragon
You need 3 alternate discord handles on the discord to cause chaos
You need to tell Ishuli to quit his job and get his priorities straight
You gotta convince Zulg to come back and do all the coding bitch work
And I’d like a medium 3 topping pizza sent as well with beer.


Dumbass

I make it a habit of rage deleting his chars. It is theraputic for me. There is nothing better than putting him down with the dumbest throw away builds and have his ego fold into rage. I think I have rage deleted probably 13 of his characters in the last 3 years.

You were a force to be reckoned with!