Sun Jul 26 23:20:20 2020

At 7 o'clock PM, Day of the Sun, 20th of the Month of the Battle
on the Theran calendar Pininip perished, never to return.

Race:	gnome
Class:	shapeshifter
Level:	51
Alignment:	Neutral
Ethos:	Chaotic
Cabal:	ENTROPY, the Barons of Chaos
Age:	414
Hours:	411

Having interacted with Pin with 3 different chars I gotta say really good job.

Having been on your team, sorta, I appreciated everything you did for me and everything for the cabal.

I was really looking forward to being hero with you around. But alas.

Awesome job with that quest. I heard of a few people taking it seriously and laughing. Didn't have the heart to tell them it was fake. To me that's the epitome of a good baron and you should've been heavily rewarded for it.

Great job, seriously. And thanks again for everything. Come back to Entropy!

ya!

I ran out of gas.

After listening to a conversation on discord about the new Entropy I felt like I could bring it some change from within. It seemed like everyone in IMMtown doesn't really care for the cabal as a whole and consider it Herald Light. A RP cabal with half it's powers.

My goal was to boost Entropy numbers and bring the cabal some presence and TLC.

I felt like this was accomplished.

I started a competition and a quest. If you're participating in the quest you can consider it over! My goal with both things was to keep as many magical items flowing into the veil as possible. I was sphere greed and I was greedy for magic, I would do anything to see the veil happy and further magic in Thera.

I tried to help as many lowbies as I could as well as any newbies I saw.

This was a very anti-village/anti-trib character. While I didn't really have any set goals, I did know that destroying those two things, the village more than the Spire, would help magic and freedom in general.

Thanks to Rahsael for the great interactions he threw my way. It was nice after a while to have the goblin half recognized officially. That offered some good interactions and fed a bit more life into the character.

Dear Orcs. I loved you all very much. Even you Flagit. I always got so excited when an orc logged in, Pini really looked up to them and anyone else who demonstrated raw power.

Poor Villagers. You all don't do yourselves any favors. Tharuli, your melt down after losing your 5 pieces of Dern gear was epic. I had given you fair fights and never bothered your things before that, but you tried to gang me down with 3 other people. Your claim was that it was a raid situation, and I get that, but the fact is I had just logged in, nobody was fighting the giant, and I purposefully attacked a non-villager. The ranger that constantly shot birds down. While you did have the Equation, that wasn't my goal. I attacked a non-battle character without having struck the giant, I just happened to be in the woods by Eastern near the Village. Qutt then jumped in the fight, then you did, then Tikkan did. I'm not going to give gang happy berserkers the opportunity to hit me with the force of a thousand demons while ganging. I took damage gear from bad villagers and distributed it to magic happy characters, but only after they showed they'd do whatever they could to kill me or be douchebags in general. I'll leave current villagers alone. But Drillmaster I know why you did what you did and I'm sorry you can't leave things that happened to previous characters of yours just to those characters. I had everything back that you sac'd within a day so it isn't a big deal, but to have a newly tat'd/leadered 2 week old ELF stoop to such things is just silly.

Other than running a fake quest and competition for the sake of magic I think that would cover the only two hater responses.

Alligator is pretty nuts in PVE but kind of meh in PK.

Flyto garble on the whole, or garble in general, works maybe 35% of the time. People complaining about garble the most are invokers, it really does screw them over.

Disperse can make things pretty interesting. Knockout/plague/garble/dispersing villagers was very effective.

Randomizer works maybe 10% of the time and has a 100 hour cooldown, eesh.

I guess my point is, you can make Entropy work and it can lead to some pretty fun/quirky RP.

At least, that's what it felt like. You'd go out of your way to gang anybody with anyone just to get a PK regardless of any RP considerations and I deeply suspect you contributed to deletions of multiple characters with your behavior.
Maybe you can RP with imms, but you should definitely look beyond PK when interacting with mortals.

Aw.

Thank you for showing me the things you did and in general being someone fun, if pesky, to interact with. I’m sure you’ll have some criticism about your RP, but I think for people who had a chance to interact with you in a positive way, it was on the whole a positive experience. We had a lot of good banter on our little trips, but MAN was it hard to keep up with you.

Anyway, hands to yourself and fare-thee-well!

I really enjoyed our talks. Honestly surprised no quest form, you were definitely carrying the cabal there for a good long while.

Good luck with your next!

I interacted with you with several characters (especially as Tharuli and Valiandos).

Re: my "meltdown". I don't actually care about getting fulled. It happens, and I usually take it in stride (even gotten Imm exp for it). My problem was your supposed "RP" about it.

IC, it isn't my place to question another players motivations.. but OOC, you were about as far from an Entropist as I can imagine.

You full looted me because you claimed (incorrectly) that I didn't follow Battlerager rules. You were an Entropist punishing someone for not following rules.

As Valiandos, you told me that the air was "your territory" and that I was not allowed to fly (rules you claimed to enforce against certain non-magistrates as well). You were an Entropist putting artificial rules and limits on the use of magic.

I don't know much about Entropy, but I don't see how that jives with the Entropy dogma.

Not to mention, your generally annoying playstyle. I can't count how many times you would hit the outer just to make people return, then leave before there was even a fight. Or how many times you would flydown and peck, then fly away as soon as I shifted. Or how many times you would attack me (pre-final forms), every time I stepped out of the Spire, just to make me go back inside. Nothing against the rules with any of that, but it just makes people not want to play the game with you. There were plenty of times that I would quit out, just because I could accomplish absolutely nothing (especially pre-hero), because you refused to do anything else.

You were bad for the game, from several perspectives, not just mine. My current had no interaction with you at all, but I'm still glad you're gone.

-Re: my "meltdown". I don't actually care about getting fulled. It happens, and I usually take it in stride (even gotten Imm exp for it). My problem was your supposed "RP" about it.-

Fulled is not losing Dern gear. You kept weapons, you kept preps, you kept all your +dex gear, your rings/bracelets/mask/about body/waist.



-I don't know much about Entropy, but I don't see how that jives with the Entropy dogma.-

Agreed. There are no rules or set formula Entropy has to follow. I helped Tribunals, I helped Imperials. I wrote a contest and formal quest. I wore clothes regularly, I spoke the same language as everyone else. One of the fun things about the cabal is there isn't a right or wrong. Pininip was fond of calling out the hypocrisy of others. I don't understand why you believe being in the Entropy cabal would have prevented my character from knowing that the Village has bound themselves to parity and courage. You are bound to parity and courage, Pininip is not. The anti-entropy portion of that would come in if Pininip bound himself to your rules and ideals, not call you out for breaking them due to convenience and a cheap kill. I'll say it again. Just because a character is zany and chaotic, he is still intelligent and knows the limitations of his enemies. 'What is the point of you following rules if I can't take advantage of them!' is what I would say to people (including you) who broke their own rules be they Spire or Battle or Empire.

-Not to mention, your generally annoying playstyle. I can't count how many times you would hit the outer just to make people return, then leave before there was even a fight. Or how many times you would flydown and peck, then fly away as soon as I shifted. Or how many times you would attack me (pre-final forms), every time I stepped out of the Spire, just to make me go back inside. Nothing against the rules with any of that, but it just makes people not want to play the game with you. There were plenty of times that I would quit out, just because I could accomplish absolutely nothing (especially pre-hero), because you refused to do anything else.-

Usually I would only hit the outer to make people return if they had the Equation. It is your choice to return or to keep walking, that is part of the price you pay for raiding an enemy cabal. As far as the other stuff....it's a pk mud.

-You were bad for the game, from several perspectives, not just mine. My current had no interaction with you at all, but I'm still glad you're gone.-

Opinion noted. I enjoyed our back and forth's with Valiandos, thanks for the fun!

Entropy has a defined, if vague, dogma. Ensuring freedom from constraints of civilization, law and authority, particularly when it comes to practicing/studying magic.

You creating laws for other mages to follow (ie, claiming dominion of the air), and you, by your own IC admission, punishing people for breaking rules are both directly contradictory to Entropy dogma.

If you played out the Village thing differently, sure. If you called me a hypocrite and tried to prove my entire way of lfie was wrong? That would've been awesome. You would've been flat wrong, since you clearly didn't understand what actually happened, but hey. At least it would've been fun. But you and I both know that isn't what you did.

And there's even less excuse for trying to create your own rule of law in the air. That was just embarassing.


I admit to not having the deepest understanding of Entropy, but at least I can recognize that there IS a purpose, beyond just being "unpredictable" (which of course, you were anything but).


PS. I was a Villager. I didn't have preps. And I also lost every weapon and half of the gear you claimed I kept. But whatever, that isn't what it's about.

Actually totally disagree with you.

"I don't know much about Entropy" and I will just leave it at that as your quote. CAN some of the things you said be valid and held to? Sure. If that is how YOU wish to approach Entropy.

Making demands and claiming something is your's isnt making laws. Those are all your opinions but you dont speak for everyone, just yourself.

And no, this isnt a flame or attack on you just the fact that everything Pini did was fine by the confines of Entropy in every form going back to Ishmael/Pico days

Chaotic stupid is pretty expressly forbidden.

Claiming ownership of something, and forbidding everyone from going there unless they follow your standards is pretty much the definition of making laws.

Pininip did some awesome things. But he did some pretty terrible ones too.

Running a fake quest to benefit magic? That's awesome Entropist behavior.

Telling mages that they can't practice their craft unless they follow your rules? That's ####ty Entropist behavior.

What are your thoughts on ganging berserkers though?

But then, Pininip's story wasn't entirely accurate.

I don't have the log, but basically, I fought Pininip at (or a room away from) the giant. Not sure if we had the equation or not. A random ranger that I'd never seen before jumped into the fight a bit after it started.

Pininip fled a couple rounds later, then accused me of breaking Village rules and promised to "punish" me for being a bad Villager.

I suppose I could have fled and refused to fight because that ranger jumped in. But a relatively powerful mage standing at the gates of the Village? I could have just as easily been uninducted for NOT fighting, since that pretty clearly meets the definition of a seige, rather than skirmish.

So yeah.. "ganging".

I log in and Silusindal says a ranger shot him out of the sky at near the Village. This ranger constantly shoots us birds out of the sky, but it is payback time! This fight happens near the Village though, so it is berserker ganging time!

http://www.qhcf.net/premium/logbin/5edaae049d1c3

Could you also give me a list of rules I should follow next time I play Entropy please?

I forgot Tikkan was there. I also forgot Sil was there.

Still not seeing anything even remotely against Village rules though, given the two of you were pretty obviously in the middle of attempting to retrieve. And you were being the aggressor even after you knew everyone was there, so I honestly don't know what you expected to happen there. Did you want us to sit around and watch you fight everyone one at a time? CF isn't a Bruce Lee movie.



As far as rules for Entropy.. I've pretty much said what I wanted to say. If you disagree, so be it. But in my opinion, Entropists aren't the enforcers of, or the creaters of, rules. If you disagree, so be it.

I didn't strike a villager. I didn't strike the giant. I wasn't there to retrieve.

I'm not sure that my talking to you about parity was any different than you saying to me that as an entropist I shouldn't be worried about village rules IC, but okay. Did you want to see our discussion after I killed you before you deleted or me looting 5 things from your corpse and flying away as well?

If you want to gang just stick to the Fortress next time.

At no point did I ever engage when you were fighting someone else.

First time we fought in that log, I cranialed you as you were running to the giant and knocked you out. Instead of calling the gang, I attacked solo. Two rounds later, Tikkan dragged you away from me without ever entering combat. Not sure what you want me to do differently there.

You then fled from Tikkan and the ranger at the giant into me. That time, YOU ENGAGED ME. One step away from the giant, and one step away from 2 people you were just fighting. Naturally, I cranial. Ranger engaged at the same moment I cranialed, Tikkan just after, and you flee before my cranial lag wears off. Nothing I could do differently there, and you're the one that started the fight anyways. If I fled when you attacked, I'd probably (and deservedly) get uninducted.

Tell me again what I did wrong, and what I should have done differently in the log you posted?

Then again, knowing that everyone was there, why did you attack me that last time anyway? What did you expect to happen?

EDIT: BTW, Tharuli's gank-o-meter was 1.19. Only 2 Villagers have lower gank-o-meter in the past year (Thuzur with 1.1, Baena with 1.11).

The mental gymnastics here is amazing, thank you.

My favorite part is you had the village quest skill of 'predict future' where you saw that I was planning on hitting the giant as an offense form without parry against 3 berserkers, one with entwine.

At no point was I planning to hit the giant against those odds.

Parity, I expected parity to happen. When it didn't I dealt with it. Up to that point we had been cordial enemies with mutual respect.

We had the Equation. Assuming you're attempting to retrieve is a pretty safe bet.

You also ignored literally everything else I said, about how it was literally impossible for me to do anything differently in the log that you posted. Apart from not attacking a Village enemy, as that enemy runs towards the Village, at least.

And most importantly, you ignored the fact that YOU ATTACKED ME, after you had fought everyone else in the Village. How is that my fault?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvhoR1DQhLg

Guess that means I win?

thanks

Making up and enforcing arbitrary, ridiculous rules ("I own the sky.") sounds to me like a fun way to make others question the validity of rules altogether.

No one has the slightest idea what Entropy is really supposed to be.

You've stated in the past that Entropy is against anything that limits the practice/study of magic or free will. In your own words, they are "committed to absolute freedom". Conjurers can't even join because binding restricts the free will of sentient creatures. How is telling someone "Every time you do this one specific magical action, I will kill you" really any different from that? You even said (on the stickied Gameplay board post) that you can't be a "brutal slavemaster" to mercs, implying that you can't force sentient creatures tofollow your will via force/threats, because it takes away their free will.

Now you're saying that you think it's great RP to restrict freedom and put artifical restrictions on others, limiting their study of magic and limiting what they choose to do with their free will?

I don't see how it's possible for both to be true.

If you want Entropy to be a success, we need to know what "good" Entropy looks like. For that to happen, we also need to know what "bad" Entropy looks like. Frankly it just looks like you're stretching to call any high-profile Entropy character a "success", just for the sake of having successes in a cabal that's been floundering.


Also note: My Magistrate wasn't the only mage that was given this "restriction" by Pininip. Non-Magistrates were as well, so pretending after the fact that it was some kind of example about poor laws is just re-writing history.

He is very good at knowing exactly what Entropy is supposed to look like and he has all the rules you, as an IMM, will need to enforce. Because you haven't stated these rules clearly and are leaving things open to the interpretation of each character, you are really messing up how Entropy should be role-played for everyone.

We need rules and we need them now please.

This is why Rahsael.

How do we successful Entropy?

Rules please. Java's Rules. We need bullet points.

Also Pininip said Java couldn't fly because he didn't want him in the sky and that is very triggering and rules. Green man bad.

I have my own criticisms of Pininip, but none of them are the things you're mentioning. Here's one: I think he was too kind to "fellow" chaos mages.

But if a chaos mage wants to enforce ludicrous rules unevenly, that doesn't bother me at all. A lone half-goblin wants to lay claim to the entire sky? Okay. That's kind of humorous.

If you'd like to play an Entropist who never interacts with anyone or fights with anyone because you don't want to interfere with their freedom to speak with others, walk down the Eastern Road or live life, feel free, I guess.

Frankly, I didn't witness the incident you're talking about. But a character is more than one incident and I liked this one. Some of the best Entropists have been inscrutable to almost everyone, but made a little more sense if you knew their roles. Their real reasons and their outward actions don't always match up.

I hope this gives you some of the insight you are asking for. If it doesn't or if you disagree, I'm okay leaving it at that.

You've made it clear that there ARE a few rules to Entropy, despite some people in this thread saying otherwise.

For example: Conjurers aren't allowed because they bind sentient creatures, necromancers aren't allowed to control sentient undead, and no one is allowed to act like a "brutal slavemaster" to mercs.

Those are your examples, and they all seem to be in the same vein of forbidding the limiting of a sentient creature's free will

Are those rules only in place for NPCs? Are those rules more flexible than what the stickied Gameplay thread suggests?

There's a difference between hijacking or destroying someone else's will and contesting their will. Everyone gets to do what they want. Not everyone gets to be successful.

Tribunals aren't slavers. Their laws and rules aren't anathema. Their rules simply don't matter. An entropist will do what she wants regardless. I have to suspect Pin declared ownership of the sky kind of ironically or in order to get people to challenge him.

fwiw I can see this being taken to silly extremes. If an Entropy character PKs someone ranking in the Battlefields then tells him "If I see you there again I'm going to kill you again." Has the Entropy character "limited that person's free will" by bullying him into staying away from the Battlefields?

In one sense, clearly not. That person can exercise his free will and choose to return to the Battlefields, even if it means potentially dying.

Possibly relevant is the question of what the IC explanation for mercs is. When you hire one do you obliterate its will through magical means (or have the merc dealer do it for you), or are you just paying a guy who is willingly choosing to do a job for you?

We hard heard IC that you deleted and hoped it wasn't true yet here it is. Ah well, it sucks but it happens.

You are going to have the haters, but ignore them. I saw plenty of RP and there was absolutly nothing wrong with the Entropy RP which you were doing. People just get pissy because you dont play the way they want you to play. You did a lot for newbies and people trying to get into the game.

Good luck with any future characters.

thanks for everything

I interacted with Pininip with two different characters. It was fun with both. You were very helpful to one of them, who was more of an ally than the other. You always had things interesting and the veil stuff was entertaining.

I agree Entropy is at least half-broken. With my last Baron, I think randomizer worked more than 1 in 10 for me, maybe 1 in 4 or 5 success rate, but I think it should be higher. It would also be nice if ALL the cabal powers worked. It's a cabal ripe for Imm loving, in my opinion.

I'll look forward to your next character.

Nooooooooooo!

I really enjoyed Pininip, having played on both sides of him. I tend to agree with your assessment of Entropy, it's not going to be a powerhouse, but on the flip side you can basically do whatever you like, so there's that.

Having read Pininip's role and having watched the magic quest play out, I just want to say: I don't think it's accurate to say this character didn't role-play.

That said, the fact that he role-played is not necessarily a defense against other criticisms, which may (or may not) be entirely valid.

I'd add: the magic quest was pretty funny. I know at least a few folks fell for it hook, line and sinker.

kudos on the tenacity to stick to things and be an agent of change

i said my piece to you in discord. you irritated the ever loving mess out of me a few times, but, i don't really fault you for it. you're just good at it : )

wonderful char from someone who saw many sides to it...you punk.

I don't know how you're supposed to find that.

Thanks for taking the time to show me a variety of other area related tricks as well on your priors. At least, I think you were those guys.

klm

Really fun character. I apologize for dropping off at the end, there, but Pininip was one of my favorites to watch. I enjoyed our interactions and saw the fun and interesting and obnoxious moments you created for others. Great job overall!

Chaos is so unappealing... But I admit being amused when you beat everyone else at most contests or events run, even my little experiment.

You were around a lot, and had plenty of fans and enemies and made a mark on a ton. You definitely put Entropy on the map in a way, as the Tribunal imm, I found unappealing! Good job.

-Ish