Fri Feb 21 20:00:16 2020

At 11 o'clock AM, Day of Thunder, 3rd of the Month of the Spring
on the Theran calendar Ioxia perished, never to return.

Race:	arial
Class:	assassin
Level:	51
Alignment:	Evil
Ethos:	Neutral
Cabal:	BATTLE, the BattleRagers, Haters of Magic
Age:	30
Hours:	155

I am ready to be done with everything CF, most especially discussions like these. So this is my final thought and my final visit to the forums.

In life and business the actions we choose to take attract or repel. There are many times when we strategically take actions to attract one group at the cost of repelling another. Sometimes it's an easy and clear choice. For example, we attract wholesome, uplifting friends and necessarily repel drug-abusing, criminal friends. Other times it's not easy or clear, like when a business chooses re-brand and repel one kind of paying customer in favor of attracting another kind of paying customer.

What many of us are trying to explain is that a series of choices the staff is making to attract a particular group of players at the cost of repelling others. Be assured that for every player like myself who chooses to say something when they go, there is another who goes silently. This staff actively participates in an adversarial relationship with its players here on the forums. It does nothing as some players deliberately antagonize others both in and out of the game. Most especially it does nothing to people who are obviously breaking rules. (Such as busting a huge perma using ill-gotten hell maps and banning only one person, then letting said person remain to talk #### on forums and proxy around their ban.)

TL;DR? If you want fewer Ioxias and more Sekpaks, you're on the right track.

gr

Just wanted to say that I won't be back until cheating is better monitored and controlled. You can tell me I'm wrong, that it's being watched, but I am a former imm with friends who are still up there. Busting cheaters requires active engagement and stiffer, more meaningful punishments.

Additionally, this has become an increasingly toxic and power-gamey environment which I have, admittedly, begun to contribute to.

I've got better things to do. See ya.

If you ever see cheating, please report it to us by PRAYing, sending a note, or emailing us. Even if you're not 100% sure, it can give us enough knowledge to at least watch for it.

This applies to anyone who sees cheating issues.

Thanks!

imps@carrionfields.com
=================================================
Twist twist@carrionfields.com
Scarabaeus scarabaeus@carrionfields.com
Umiron umiron@carrionfields.com

Email to all immortals can be sent to imms@carrionfields.com

One recent example of "cheating" or at least breaking RP without consequences was some players reporting empire giving cabal items to orcs. You personally said it didn't happen. When Flaaayin pointed out that your logging wasn't seeing that Empire was fleeing out of the inner last second so the item popped in the orc's hand, you (or someone like you) locked the thread.

That was the straw before the straw that broke the camel's back.

Sucky as that might be, I don't see that as breaking RP. Empire is full of evil Butt holes who will do what they need to to dominate the world. If that means orcs, it means orcs.

Does it suck, yes. Do they need to maybe code something to either make retrieving from Orcs less of a death sentance, or maybe more trouble for the orcs, yeah, probably. But is it Cheating. Nah. And this is coming from a serial goodie player who's been on the other side.

If the instigators had any kind of role that backed this kind of behaviour.

As it is it instead reeks of powergamey OOC motive.

I would argue that the lawful Empire would only want to exterminate orcs and their chaotic tendencies. It's #### RP but we all do it because it's super easy to gank with an orc. We're simple people.

That's broken RP because Imperial Law states "All items belong in the throne."

Without going back and looking I believe the response was on the order of, "It's wrong for Empire to give orcs a cabal item, but that's not happening, and we know it's not happening because we have logs."

But how is that supposed to be cheating?

I ####ing hate retrieving from orcs and play Battle often as well.

Cheating? No way. Bad RP? Uh..I guess? But I've def witnessed Imperials getting slapped down for being too chummy with Orcs. Graitel the most recent.

Nt

So yeah, I could see that being kinda shady. I don't have the inclination to go lookup your thread. Either way, meh. I think its kinda of a stretch to call it cheating. Sucky, yeah, borderline crappy, yeah, but unless there was blatent OOC coordination, its just meh.

"One recent example of "cheating" or at least
breaking RP without consequences"

I think what was irritating people about that particular
situation at that particular time was that it -appeared- to be
perma (it was not as wholly blatant as some) that was breaking
RP to work together. 

Flaayin was deleted 9 years ago. 9 effin years ago. That was not recent.. That was a third of Cf's life yo.

Are you still really but hurt over that?

Nt

These rumors began to spread during Terpilans's play time by some worse players like you so i assume you wanted to say that i did such?

Raided everybody with orcs and others many dozens of times. I never gave any item of power to any orc. And i never saw it happened during last few imperials i played. In fact i asked higher ranked imperials to fight orcs because you know .... they are orcs and we were an imperials. But all empire leaders refused to let me fight orcs as all imperials i played lately.

In fact i even almost always demanded all items of powers from orcs i raided with and they were always giving it to me. Except maybe 2 or so times. One time i remember well because i went to sleep right after our raid. Another time i just retreated from the watcher after taking blows and was convulsing myself, so i thought it's not the best idea to demand anything in such condition.


P.S. Way to delete after losing 2 pitch-black rings, sleeves of harrapia and 1 more average item which name i already forgot.

Imperials grouping with orcs was definitely happening long before Terpilans. I planned to put an end to it after I overthrew Ahtieli (as Nererial). Only I bungled that attempt so the "stop grouping with orcs!" bit never happened.

I personally said that's not what I see happening.

Having checked my personal logs and seeing countless raids by solo (and unsolo) orcs, that's way more likely.

If that did happen, it's not cheating. Feel free to pressure the Empire for the devious actions of their evil devious members.

If I locked the thread, it wasn't because of something one person said but because the thread had everything hashed out already.

If that's the straw, sorry, but I'm not going to lie about what I've seen just to make you happy. I'd rather say what I've actually seen.

I've got nothing else to say on this, and I don't want to turn your death-thread into a flamefest, so this is my only piece on the matter.

Otherwise I'll repeat what I did before:

If you (anyone reading this) see anyone **ACTUALLY CHEATING** (not "failing to RP how I think they should", not "bad IC action that should get them punished within their cabal) please email us and report it somehow.

We try to look into every report we get. More often than not the reporter is mistaken. Sometimes they aren't. When they aren't, we get to slam cheaters. Yeehaw.

-Ish

I have reported cheating via prayer and notes in the past and nothing at all came of it. The offenders even admitted, later, that they were cheating and it took one of the worst offenders in their group snitching on the others for there to finally be something done about it. Almost reluctantly, it seemed.

Look, you guys seem to have a way of doing things... I'm not sure exactly what it is, but for some reason, sometimes a blind eye is turned. Even when the offenders are blatant and griefing others.

I still enjoy the game, and I like you IMM's just fine. Also, I appreciate the hard work you guys put in. However, the players have a right to know that every now and again you IMM's are gonna allow some shady shady stuff to go down, and throw a *shrug* our way and say something like "Hey, we didn't know." When in reality, there's simply no way for you NOT to know.

Still love ya! ;)

P.S. To offer a solution to those who recognize such issues when they arise, I offer this:

Simply don't engage the offenders at all! Let them have their sandbox. Either log off, simply don't play during their playtimes, or go dormant for a while. Let them play by themselves. Don't give them the enjoyment. They aren't worth it. That's my strategy, anyways.

I also thought it was pretty lame that only one person ate a ban for that - and then that person just blatantly posted on the forums and proxied around the ban. Then they closed the area...for everyone.

Meh.

Though overall I am glad they closed hell, since they'd still be at it.

Is this a separate event from when Gulrom/Merf got Hell closed for good on purpose by posting hell logs in Krunk's discord barely more than a year ago?

Because the one I know about is where Gulrom explicitly posted Hell logs in the Discord because of this:
http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?3,1120265,1120265

And then Scarab closed it right away. Did Shapa ratting on his buddies cause a close before this one?

"Simply don't engage the offenders at all! Let them have their sandbox. Either log off, simply don't play during their playtimes, or go dormant for a while. Let them play by themselves. Don't give them the enjoyment."

Take note: that's a quote from an experienced player. Someone who knows the ropes. For those like myself, whose PK skills have atrophied over a 10-year absence, whose prep knowledge is non-existent, and whose gear knowledge is completely sub-standard over level 20 or so, there exists no reason to engage with (highly) experienced powergamers.

Moreover, there aren't enough players of my in-game knowledge left for me to make the attempt at (re)climbing CF's (steep) learning curve. I am essentially a free frag to the powergamer, and these comprise the vast majority of my in-game encounters. Rule #1: I play for my enjoyment, not someone else's. Ergo, I no longer engage. I flee, I quaff, and I log out.

This state of affairs isn't necessarily anybody's fault. But it is the way things are right now. On the plus side, it also shows how one aspect of CF is well and truly evergreen: All The Drama.

Getting your ass handed to you is just a part of the game. It happens to all of us, including me. So, if you're logging off to avoid a fight you can't win, I think you're doing yourself a disservice. Figuring out how to kill tough people is how you're going to 'git gud'.

Now, if someone is multi-killing you and full-looting you, or if you are sure someone is cheating that's another thing entirely. I don't feel anyone should have to deal with such non-sense. Let them have their sandbox if that's who they want to be.

Sometime around 2004 or 2005, I nearly con-died an uncaballed warrior. (My last hero before Aithiar, who literally came more than a decade after.) I had my ass handed to me plenty of times by the "powergamers" of that era. A key difference however is that back then I fought opponents roughly my own skill level almost as regularly as the powergamers.

There were regular victories to go along with my numerous defeats at the hands of plain better players. That balance kept moral high through the lows, my PK skill gradually increased, and the overall experience was (well) worth its occasional frustrations. I even developed a habit of never returning to my corpse after getting PK'ed--I immediately started regearing from scratch.

In today's CF, that balance no longer is present. I don't run into people of my own skill level any longer: it is quaff or be steamrolled/log out or be multi-killed, and I've adapted accordingly. When those same powergamers/griefers are apparently engaged in dubious conduct on top of that, it's clear I am making the right decision. That's why I brought this up.

Sorry you feel this way. From my perspective you positively impacted the game and your quitting is a loss for everyone.

One thing I'll add: depending on what kind of cheating you're talking about, it's often hard to detect unless someone calls it out and prompts us to take a closer look at a specific situation.

nt

For what its worth, genuine mistake on my part. I guarded your corpse up until the person in question left then did so myself since you were on where and I was hurt. In hindsight? not my smartest move, but there we are. Was a big Ioxia fan, sorry how it ended.

Put up your dukes. Damn you! My oldest friend just went poof. Well I hope it leaves you open to something you enjoy more. You'll be missed.