Tue Feb 21 08:49:57 2017

At 8 o'clock PM, Day of the Moon, 7th of the Month of Futility
on the Theran calendar Aigi perished, never to return.

Race:	fire
Class:	anti-paladin
Level:	51
Alignment:	Evil
Ethos:	Orderly
Cabal:	EMPIRE, the Empire
Age:	200
Hours:	130

Why the delete? If I am reading the posts, you really deleted because your weapon was sac'd?

It's not my place to say what happened but he wasn't killed by a pc and looted.

He lost his weapon due to a very unpopular coding change. I'll just leave it at that.

oh..

OOC..never played a Paladin or an AP

This is an ooc forum. Anything you say here should be ooc. ;)

silly me

...it has always worked that way (assuming we are talking about the death right before he deleted).

I really didn't want you do end this way but I knew you'd pull the pin. I was going to help kit you out again. REALLY unlucky way to go. One unlucky incident after another added up and resulted in that particular ending. I was as devastated as you were :(

Dude, you're an anti-paladin. If you die you're going to lose your weapon. It's kind of how it goes.

I liked the character until you completely changed how you acted because someone sacced your weapon.

If you want to full loot people fine. If you don't want to, fine. That's your personal call and if it makes sense to you go for it. But the fact that you changed specifically because someone else stole your weapon reeked of an OOC attempt at griefing.

If you're playing an AP and don't expect to lose a charged up weapon when you die, you're delusional. If you expect it, why the overreaction?

Getting AP's weapon > full loot. So it's natural to expect a full loot in return if you take AP's weapon. Totally IC.

It might be a bigger loss than a full loot for some but screw that if it justifies the full loot.

I have to agree that if you play an AP you have to know you will lose your weapon when you die. It's part of the class. Full looting someone after in retribution for it smells way more like OOC player revenge and sour grapes. Especially if you're just going to ####ing delete anyhow.

CF mechanics allows to full loot. If you have problems with it, go play LoL :) Srsly, just accept that you can get fulled and the game will be a lot easier and funny for you ;)

I fully accept that I can be full-looted. That doesn't mean it's not a #### move.

After being full looted with my current character somewhere in the realm of six times, I completely agree that it's a douchebag move, but some people think it's funny to be griefing tools.

*edited to remove a potshot at an active character. Play nice.*

If players did it SIX freaking times (!!!) then ask yourself, what's wrong with YOU. Perhaps you talks like funnyone, trashtalking left and right? Perhaps you, somehow, are angering other players that they grief you like that?

Personally, I see ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with fulling those who insult you. I usually tell people to calm down and watch their tone, and that if they won't do it, I'll punish. If they continue to trashtalk, usually I fullsac them (once). I think it's fair: they act as ####s, they get a warning, they continue to act the same way, they are punished. So, maybe it's your case that people are punishing you?

No disagreement from me that the mechanics allow it and that there's a place for it in the game.

My comment is more about the perceived difference between the full loot and taking an APs weapon. Generally speaking, If you full loot someone, they'll likely get angry and feel insulted in some way. It's just the way it is. It's why full looting is really one of the biggest symbolic FUs in the game.

For example, if a guy runs around full looting people for no reason what usually happens? People get pissed, label the guy a douche and the full loot wars commence.

Taking an APs weapon on the other hand is usually rooted in some sort of common sense and RP and is certainly a danger inherent to the class for basically the reasons Isildur said. Some people think you're nuts if you don't take an APs weapon. APs know they got lucky if someone leaves them one, even if it is weak. Paying that back with a full loot is for sure the player giving that symbolic middle finger back to the other player. That is just my opinion.

In general I'd be fine with characters indiscriminately full looting if they were publicly "outed" as such. It seems to me that this type of character often benefits from an asymmetric dynamic where they full loot everyone but not everyone full loots them. If everyone's aware that that's how the character rolls then they can be sure to reciprocate.

As the player of a large number of aps I agree.

Your enemy is generally obliged to destroy your weapon. Exceptions might be if you were link dead, if they want to gain influence over you, if they want to ingratiate themselves, if they want to show respect, or to demonstrate that they aren't worried about your potential power growth. But generally I would expect to lose my weapon if I die, even to someone that habitually doesn't loot.

I therefore don't hold it against someone in the way that I would if they looted my pies. Indeed, with jichii I always praised him for killing me where the ganks all failed to do so. And he did take my weapon and destroy it. When I killed him a little later I didn't go loot happy because he'd done exactly what he should have.

"Taking an APs weapon on the other hand is usually rooted in some sort of common sense and RP"

That's bullcrap. Taking an APs weapon is a #### move on a much higher level than full loot. Even if it's inherent to the class and ####. Like I'm gonna full loot every lich I ever manage to take down, but that doesn't mean that the act itself is not a #### move.

So long story short. Full loot = #### move, takeing weapon = #### move. Don't act like taking APs weapon (tens of hours of time investment) is all nice and not as #### as full loot (two hours of time investment).

Being a person who has taken a 30+ charge weapon from a person in the past, I'd totally be ready to eat a full loot inreturn. Because I kinda ruined the character.

Except you didn't ruin the character. Tsal lost a much bigger weapon than that and recovered. And I lost the rest of my gear at the same time.

Powering up an ap should be unusual. If people always return weapons it won't be.

Most people here don't. Like I intentionally full loot people I want to ragedelete - and guess what, they do. That wouldn't work with you, because you're on another level of emotional control, but it works with majority of players.

Taking a weapon is the same thing. I guess vast majority of APs have deleted because of losing the weapon, so displaying Tsal as a "good example" doesn't work. Tsal is only a good example of your admirable emotional state.

I'm pretty sure that 99,9% of the players would take AP's weapon to weaken him. I don't know anyone adequate who would let AP with 100 charges to hold onto it after his death. AP's with charges are beasts, and I'd destroy a weapon, but not to piss off AP or make him delete, but because it's a way to counter him. And I think most of the players share my views. Destroying AP's weapon have nothing with forcing him to delete. But if you'd kill AP, destroy his weapon AND full looted him - hell yes, that would be the middle finger showing and insult.

If I'd play an AP, I would be perfectly fine with enemy destroying my weapon. Yes, maybe I'd delete because gathering charges on hero from scratch would be too difficult or impossible, but maybe not. But definitely I wouldn't go and full loot/sac those who destroyed my weapon.

This eve, I fullsack only those who are acted as assholes (annoying behavior, trashtalks/insults) too much.

>If I'd play an AP, I would be perfectly fine with enemy
>destroying my weapon. Yes, maybe I'd delete because gathering
>charges on hero from scratch would be too difficult or
>impossible, but maybe not. But definitely I wouldn't go and
>full loot/sac those who destroyed my weapon.

Well I would. And I sure as hell will rampage on a full-looting spree if someday I play AP and someone takes my weapon.

You're missing the big picture. Taking the AP's weapon is necessary to prevent him reaching truly grotesque levels of deadliness.

Say you above-average (but not phenomenal) gear and I destroy it all. That costs you a couple hours to re-gear. At the end, though, you'll be approximately as deadly as you were before. Less so, but not fundamentally different. So you'll have about the same odds of killing me as you would have before I destroyed your stuff. I've gained little other than inconveniencing you.

However, with an AP there's the potential to turn him from "guy who can kill me in one bash without prepping and easily solo raid" to "guy who's on level footing with me". And I can do it without obligating you to spend time re-gearing, since it's not possible to re-gear an unholy weapon.

The reason full sacrificing someone is almost always a jerk move is that the "payoff" is limited.

Taking APs weapon is a huge blow. Being surprised that now he hates you and will act accordingly is nothing but hypocricy.

This argues for full sac'ing every AP I kill if it's a given that they're going to full sac me in response when I destroy their weapon.

Yeah - why not? At least you'll be consistent. When you kick a man's balls, don't pretend you'll be thanked in return, make sure he doesn't hit back and slap him with a shovel.

Edit: Taking only weapon and thinking "oh he won't be pissed" is stupid. Because he doesn't give a damn about his other equipment.

By your logic, if you loot my wands as a mage = full sac.

If you loot my legendary weapon as a warrior = full sac.

If you loot my books from Hamsah as a conjurer = full sac.

If you loot my prep bag = full sac (I actually am almost with you on this though to be honest).

See how ####ing stupid this argument gets?

Shaapa is ####ing a machine, he can get charges easily enough but he's like many of us and impulsive (he also used to delete his assassins on his first death back in the day). Depending on my character's RP, I'd destroy his weapon 100% of the time even knowing it might make him delete (and I'm probably one of Shaapa's biggest fans).

That being said, any character who wants to full loot for whatever reason is surely welcome to. It's Carrion Fields after all, not Sir Hugs-A-Lot's Playtime Adventureland.

>It's Carrion Fields after all, not Sir Hugs-A-Lot's Playtime Adventureland.

Exactly this. So be ready to be full looted if you piss people off and don't whine like a sissy.

My god.

I'm not. I'm defending AP's right to full loot #### out of anyone.

If you want to be a ####, be a ####, just don't style it as white-knighting for poor APs.

All people do around here is trying to deny AP's right to full loot.

I won't stand this.

Nobody can deny this.
It still means they're being a ####.

NT

Hello Kitty Island Adventure awaits.

Though Matrik is already there, banging your wife :)

I was referring to his decision that because one person stole his weapon, that he was going to full loot everyone he could afterwards.

No, he didn't full me. But I did see him do it to someone else, then explained to me that it was because someone else (same cabal, not logged on at the time) took his unholy.

The guy was looting everything valuable all along. If nothing else, he is consistent!

If game mechanics allows that, then you (imms) are ok with it. Because if not, you'd make soulbound items and etc. But it's what make CF what it is - full loot danger. And I think it's perfectly fine (until someone full loots me). :P

CF mechanics allow multi-killing people as well. Staff isn't fine with that.

Tribunal flagging everyone online and quitting. Perfectly possible from a game mechanics perspective. Also likely to get you denied.

It doesn't follow that because something is technically possible given the way CF is coded that it's completely kosher.

Is one of the best (if not THE best) looters in game.

That being said, he's adept in quickly taking valuables, but in this particular situation he looted the culprit down to the pies.

Shaapa is a total dude. I love the guy and he makes CF a better place.

My only gripes with him are:
- He is too polite and well spoken for his Fire APs and APs in general
- He deletes nearly always at the first death

Destroying an AP's weapon represents a big power drop for the AP, but that's precisely why that AP's enemies are practically obligated to do so. If they don't, they risk that AP becoming another Sodsob-style wrecking ball. Plus, many of an AP's opponents are going to have a strong RP-based incentive to destroy the weapon. To "free the captured souls" as it were.

Full looting represents a big power drop for your enemy. IC there's no difference between full looting and taking a weapon. OOC taking a weapon is a bigger hit.

Rationalizing ####moves with "oh it's RP" is bullcrap I can't stand.

If you perform ####moves - roll with it like a man, don't pretend to be all nice and cozy.

Full loot and taking weapons is not the same.

One leaves you with decent hp and able to jump right back into fighting.

The other doesn't.

I can dress up to jump back in battle in 20 minutes real time. And I'm noob compared to most vets.

You can't regather weapon in 20 minutes. You can't get others gather charges for you (like you can with eq). Even comparing those things is silly.

APs are designed with the idea in mind that they have no power ceiling but can easily lose that power. It may be bad design (it certainly doesn't appeal to me even though people keep telling me AP would be my ideal class), but it is what it is.

APs can get ridiculously powerful with more and more charges and it becomes harder and harder to do anything about them. Because of that, saccing AP weapons was always accepted as part of the game and is an acceptable and expected thing to do. Whereas full looting, whether that is logical or not, has become against the norm.

What is "commonly accepted as the norm" does not matter.

Taking weapon > full loot in damage to the AP. Therefore being surprised about AP being pissed off by his weapon being looted is nothing but hypocricy. You pissed a player off - eat a full loot. Expect it, take it like a man.

Telling people to "eat a full loot like a man" yet whining like a scalded dog about losing one item :)

LOL.

If I wanted to ruin an ap, I'd keep his weapon, and then when he's built another, sac it as soon as I spot him unprotected. Then take his new weapon. Means he can never build and keep a decent weapon without getting his old one off you.

But it requires taking his weapon too.

True, but we are on a thread about saccing someone's weapon.

NT

You seemed pretty skilled and very careful, which is what you need to be to build a weapon. Did you lose the one you had going and why you deleted?

When you and Solesi got me in whatever that whirlpool place is under the Aryth is called, that was a pretty bitter one for me (the bitterness all at myself).

I forgot that the last log-in Zin and I were exploring underwater and failed to notice I was still breathing water when I fled from you two trying to retrieve. Solesi had turned by eyejab back on myself and so I was just hoping to put some distance between us so it would wear off. And I ran right into that f'ing whirlpool. I didn't even know it at first. I thought I was in the Xvart cave. Pretty much a death sentence there for a Villager. I had thought I killed the right mob for the key to get out but you attacked me right then and I didn't see it when I tried to pick it up and you two ended up getting me.

Anyways I did enjoy the fights.

You was a good companion and it was always productive to hunt with you. So I liked Aigi (and yes, I figured who is it behind him quickly), but that didn't affect things IC. And I'm glad that you never went OOC and acted strictly IC. So well done!

Only one thing that spoiled overall cool picture was that skype-coordinated attack. But we'll discuss it later (oh my), when all participants of that ***show will be gone.

Wishing you all the best and getting free from mr. B toxis, pestilent influence, and you'll truly shine then. ;)

Absolutely sincerely GLWYN.