Sat Mar 5 13:06:54 2016

At 6 o'clock AM, Day of the Moon, 21st of the Month of Futility
on the Theran calendar Abelmon perished, never to return.

Race:	human
Class:	anti-paladin
Level:	51
Alignment:	Evil
Ethos:	Orderly
Cabal:	None, None
Age:	45
Hours:	203

... good afternoon, good evening and good night.

It's time I take a longer break from CF if not the final one - I've got a new job that's kicking my ass time wise, my kids are getting older and want to play more together, Oculus Rift releases in 3 weeks and I got a whole backlog of games.... and to top it all off, CF is just kind of a sour point for me right now.

My goodbye thread on Dios is just the tip of the ####show that has become the remaining group it seems. A lot of my friends that used to play have gone and moved on... and we're left with the most caustic set of trolls ever - and some of them are the Imms themselves. How in the world did Mekantos and Marintok, two of the nicest and best die hard players I know, get chewed up and spit out by the immortal area-building team? It's just a sign of what goes on behind the curtain and when both of them said "I'm done with CF"... might make some wonder but it's just salt in the wound. I thought about trying to join the staff at one point but there's too much history there I guess... and I just can't stop poking the trolls (and troll Imms).

Either way, Abelmon was fun - I was hellbent on doing a polearm AP again because I just love the concept.... and holy crap is it terrible these days. You can tell me it's balanced, and whatever facts you want to throw at me, but dex is too damn strong. I have logs of a human AP with only aura fighting hero arial villagers with ward and doing fine - and now I can point countless logs of getting my ass kicked with full preps. You've nerfed the world into oblivion. When Tsal, with 150 charges, has to run from a solo villager in ragesteel+crap... just wow. I spent hundreds of hours gathering preps to become the whipping boy of the hero range.... I was like 1 charge from Lightning Control and just couldn't stomach it anymore. Seriously, assassins, muters, and dex warriors (especially STSF) are the cancer that is killing the game. But hey, what do I know? Nothing apparently.

Gaspare - I know who you are behind the scenes so I'm not sure but it really just seems like you wanted another anathema. The previous demotion was completely on lag (I spammed bash 5 times outside of town, and you wandered in to town after it caught up)... but anathema for killing someone during the Tribunal war? Lame. When you war against the Tribunal, apparently we disagree on what that means... but trying to assassinate me at the council like you pulled on the mummy is bottom rung. With everything else ####ty going on in the game and the fact I couldn't explore the last thing I wanted to alone (Shadow Plane).... anathema killed Abelmon.

Emnon - grade A, one of the best Imms. You're like Scarabaeus but better because you're actually around ;) Loved the interactions and was hoping to go the death knight route longer term... hope you enjoyed the show.

There's other people I could mention but it kind of blurs together near the end. The hard times I had on this AP were of losing my weapon twice to Mhal as his drow AP kept landing sleep first, and my tactics of waking up kept failing... or the time I lost almost all of my gear to the Captain of the Fortress chain healing a villager who spammed bash on me - and it was the Captain who looted everything... just bleh. I had fun but it was just a bad aftertaste to the whole mess on how it went down and was just enough to make me step away.

So peace out - I'll check in on Dios when I get time to see how things are going but I might try to step down my time there also to see if I can cut the cord. Mek and Mak say nothing but good things about the non-CF world so it's time to take a look.

Later
Torak, your TLB.

I've given up on the CF community, both staff and players alike.

Sure, the forums are a mess, but my IC experience has been better RP and sportsmanship than maybe I've ever seen.

What, exactly, happened to you in-game other than the anathema that brought on this notion that the playerbase is ####ed beyond repair?

Hero STSF builds are strong, but so are like a million others. And the current villager crop is actually distinctly not STSF. In fact, I can think of maybe two hero-range chars who are maybe STSF and I don't think they're powerhouses. Assassins at hero are non-existant outside of a rare Jeede, muters are simply absent. Current hero range is a bunch of marans (most are not warriors,) a bunch of outlanders (none are warriors,) a bunch of tribs (struggling to remember a warrior there,) wight, villagers, most are duergar (not really dexy,) plus lich and friends, of whom just two are dexy I think - one (assassin) just entered hero range today, another drow warrior very recently.

Once the two active muters hit hero range, we'll see if it changes anything, but I doubt they'll have much success due to vastly better saves and the same level of everyone.

So I'm not sure what the complaining is about. At least right now.

When you say:

My goodbye thread on Dios is just the tip of the ####show that has become the remaining group it seems. A lot of my friends that used to play have gone and moved on... and we're left with the most caustic set of trolls ever - and some of them are the Imms themselves. How in the world did Mekantos and Marintok, two of the nicest and best die hard players I know, get chewed up and spit out by the immortal area-building team? It's just a sign of what goes on behind the curtain and when both of them said "I'm done with CF"... might make some wonder but it's just salt in the wound.

You are dead on.

I would gently add, you sometimes belong in this group. Maybe I sometimes do too.

I came back for a short time, but you've hit the nail on the head and I just can't bring myself to get in the sandbox with these kids.

I may not know when to shut up, especially when people like Jalim or even Imms are purposefully trying to push my buttons - I know that.

But I never did anything on Abelmon, Corzu, or any character at all that would reflect being a troll ever.

Ever.

I don't pull any of that #### in game and I leave it OOC always.

>I may not know when to shut up, especially when people like
>Jalim or even Imms are purposefully trying to push my buttons
>- I know that.

For what it's worth, I honestly believe I've never deliberately tried to "push your buttons". It's your attitude on the forums that evokes my disdain sometimes, and I think that disdain is justified. You've said elsewhere and previously that sometimes you argue for the sake of it and push things harder than you end up realizing in hindsight you should have, and as someone who is working on a labor of love that tends to push MY buttons. Oftentimes, even the vast majority of the players echo the sentiment that your behavior on the forums is out of line. Food for thought.

Jalim on the other hand is probably just trolling you because you can take the boy out of the 4chan but you can't take the 4chan out of the boy.

>But I never did anything on Abelmon, Corzu, or any character
>at all that would reflect being a troll ever.

Off the cuff, I can't think of anything bad to say about either of these characters. Corzu in particular I was a fan of (I think he was even one of my role contest winners). You've played some wonderful characters over the past few years and you should be proud of that.


>Ever.
>
>I don't pull any of that #### in game and I leave it OOC
>always.

I'm curious what you mean by "chewed up and spit out by the area-building team" as well as what you might be implying about either their particular experiences or what "goes on behind the curtain" in general.

Pretty much everyone left has either been an imm of some level or knows one pretty closely. Let's not kid ourselves about that.

From my own experience and from the second hand experience of many an imm I personally know - immland chews and spits more people than not.

I know you have a chip on your shoulder and that's fine, but Torak named two names, one of which was a player who heroimm'd during my time (obviously) and who as far as I know was not the subject of nor subjected to any drama or abuse.

It sounded like he (Torak) had one or more concrete examples in mind and that's what I was/am curious about. It's one thing, for example, for a previously senior immortal to have some laundry to air, but again, I'm curious how exactly the experience (all 52 hours of it, in Marintok's case) was that bad. I ask not just out of curiosity but also because constructive feedback is useful.

Apologies to Marintok if this is all out of context and awkward for him.

I don't know if I've got a chip on my shoulder. I cared about CF as much as anyone and I continue to be frustrated (though less so in the last 1/2 decade) watching it decay while its staff continues to insist nothing is wrong. Where once I felt strongly enough to go on about it, now I'm just amused.

I don't know Marintok well, but it's safe to say Mekantos and I are friends. He and Torak are quite close. I don't think he or I should speak on Mek's behalf, but I do think Mek himself, while remaining polite and civil, hasn't been vague about his dissatisfaction.

I do believe you, Umiron, are interested in doing well for CF and I think on the whole you do a better job than anyone we've seen in the spot in a very long time. With that being said I don't think a shortage of constructive feedback is CF's problem. You've gotten tons of constructive (or at least accurate) feedback about the game and its operation over the last 20 years. But, if you insist, let me do as the CF staff has done so many times and tell you, "forum search it."

> But, if you insist, let me do as the CF staff
>has done so many times and tell you, "forum search it."

Again, what I specifically asked about isn't (to my knowledge) already written on these forums. Let's us just leave it at that and wait for aforementioned parties to chime in, should they choose.

I think in Mek's case it is, for what it's worth.

I also think one of the primary problems with the imm perception of CF is the players who got pissed off enough (somehow) to leave aren't around to provide feedback on threads like this.

I don't even know why I'm bothering to post myself. :)

Anyways, all the best to you, Umi. Good luck. I genuinely hope you are successful.

Umiron may know what you're talking about, but I sure don't. And you seem to be doing at least one thing that you are criticizing the staff for: Keeping the playerbase out of the loop.

Especially if this is your swan song, spill it! If there are issues, let's hear them. I don't understand why everything has to be so clandestine. Otherwise, just send a note to the IMMs so the rest of us don't have to wonder what you're getting at.

There's always lots of hinting and mutterings about sneaky, dirty #### that goes on, but rarely does anyone ever say "Imm X did this to Player Y".

When that DOES happen, it's usually the player biting the pillow because they did something to merit the punishment.

Calling out people on behalf of others isn't exactly constructive - and it's going to devolve into "he said she said". I highly doubt Mek/Mak are going to speak up though because they're better than that... but I'm not :)

I think the easiest way to answer these is with two short statements:

1) Valg, to some people and probably myself included, is one of the worst Immortals to "happen" to CF. Publicly, privately, and a whole lot of what went on behind the scenes killed a lot of the life the game had. To see someone who used to be a Dio's VIP and community icon turn to such a dark side is shocking really. Several pain points for a lot of players, even to this day, point back to changes initiated by him.... and a lot of the public relationship with the staff was set from a tone that he had. Behind the scenes as an area Imm team, I heard a lot of from what Mek had to go through in the end he just threw in the towel. If I could say it felt like any single staff member had a grudge against the playerbase, especially myself, it's with this guy. This was also the time I first tried to become an Imm but the second he found out I was TLB (which btw, was his little nickname), he told me to #### off.

2) Marintok's is more recent and the Imms are still active so I'm not going to touch this one that much. I will say that a lot of what made Valg terrible is somehow shared with Destuvius... and to ring a similar bell, another time I tried to show interest in becoming a coder for the game that got shut down when he "poked the bear" by pushing my buttons - but hey, you joined in that hate train too so there's that. I wouldn't doubt that he has a strong dislike for the playerbase as a whole either from what I heard and saw snippets of.

But enough gossip, take it as you will - both of these guys are some of the nicest people on the planet. Marintok is a firefighter for christ's sake and Mekantos is a very gifted artist, both guys with the heart of a giant teddy bear.... when both of them "nope'd" out of CF, you have to reflect and look inward to that process and whose in charge of it. Lastly, this isn't just Mek/Mak... there were plenty others who left unhappy.

You want details? Do an exit interview and ask them yourself.

Marintok (who I enjoyed and was trying to work through the process) failed to fulfill his end of the agreement. When you opt to become an imm, you are assigned a task and given ample opportunity to do it. There were multiple points along the way where we were trying to follow up with him and see if he needed more help or had any moments where things were not clear.

The big variable just happened to be time, and he was lacking much free time during the time in his life when he was trying to join the staff. I am the one who pulled him aside at the end and I even made a special point of asking him if there was anything that could have been done different from our end to help make things better because the last thing that I, or anyone on staff for that matter, want is to have someone fail because we didn't support them enough. The response I got from him was that we did everything fine and the only thing that would have helped him would have been less things to do in RL.

You can try and hate on me all you want based on your own super skewed opinion, I can't change that, but certainly need to quit being such a turd sandwich and acting like I screwed Marintok because he had too much on his plate. And if Marintok feels like I somehow wronged him in the process, then I would love to hear it from him so I can take the time and present him an apology that he deserves.

Well, okay then.

For the sake of saying it, I'll mention that Valg was probably the most significant and impactful mentor I had as a mid level immortal looking for a seat at the table. He gave me a lot of valuable advice and I like to think that advice is reflected in my approach to the game. Folks can take that for what they will.

Secondly, I'll just say that anyone who has had a bad experience as a heroimm recently is welcome to provide me with feedback privately if they wish.

I've never understood the Valg hate. Helpful, no ####, and I always felt like I could talk to him about game concerns.

On Abelmon...

Great character, interesting to watch, and all around fun to interact
with. I really enjoyed how you evolved over the time, especially
when you started gaining some power. Overall, I really liked Abelmon.
I'm flattered with the Scarabaeus comparison. If only I had an ounce
of his coding knowledge.

On Torak and all other things...

I hope that the sourness swathed over CF right now for you passes
away in time. Your a knowledgeable player and an asset to the game
from what I've seen over the course of time. Your positives have
rose to outweigh anything negative you left on the CF trail. I do
hope you come back. My biggest advice. Play for you and do and accomplish what you want.

I'll throw this out there concerning the other topics on the thread and they aren't really directed at you Torak or anyone
in particular. Just to give a view of my experience, etc..

Hero IMM life is pretty structured and in all accounts fair. This
is coming from someone who has....

A. Played for years and still can be a complete newb at times.
B. Rarely has participated in any forum conversations and in
all actuality, still doesn't. Its just not my thing, but I have
seen some of the negative stories.
C. I have been the proverbial unspoken guy in the corner watching everything over the years and have had no real contact/friends in
the cf community until recently with the imm staff.
D. I would be the last person you would think could have any
chance of immorting.

But..I did. Is it lets bring in the new guy and give them no
chance to succeed and break their backs with demands and what not.

Absolutely not. The staff are helpful and the tools available
have been refined over the years and put in place to help you
succeed. Its up to you to do the work and ask the questions when
your not sure. A question is going to get a helpful answer. Not
a #### off lowly hero imm. They want you to succeed, because your
hopefully going to add something positive to the game.

Hero Imm's are this...An investment for the future. The higher
ups and Imps WANT their investments to flourish. I'm not going
to speak for Marintok, but I have to back what Umi stated. The
dude was rarely around from what I seen. Real live definitely
began to take precedence over a hobby. Its cool. They understand.
Because lets face it, our real life matters first. I even had
real life problems rear its ugly head and had to bow out at my
first attempt of IMMing. When the dust settled and I wanted to
try again did they say, Go #### off? Nope. They are real people
too and understand.

Umiron does a lot for the game and he takes time out of his life
to do these things, because he finds some enjoyment in it and he
doesn't want to see CF waste away.

Also, a lot of the player base gives Destuvius a bum rap, but he
actually does care and is always willing to help. I have never
had an experience where I didn't walk away from a conversation
not learning something. Can he be brash? Yep.. Will he hate on
some things? Yep..Will he teach you things while hating and being
brash? Most definitely. And you will walk away knowledgeable.


That's my 2 cents worth. Remember we are all contributing our
time to a hobby. I enjoy whatever contribution I can give that
interests me at that particular point in time. Some other IMMs
are like that as well. Play for you and do what you enjoy.

You will be better off in the end.

and I absolutely adored your last two notable characters, Abelmon and Corzu. But you are so delusional with Mek/Mak stories just for the reason of listening only to one side of it and most likely misinterpreting the little information you have.

1. Always listen to both parties.
2. The party failing or bailing out will tend to give you amount of info close to zero, trying to look better.

That's basics.

And just on a side note:

Having some relation to real life higher places, I am always amazed about the amount of prejudices and speculations that are completely and utterly wrong about those, both in media and public opinions. As far as I can see this can be attributed to IMM-related speculations as well.

Whatever you will say, Bythewayyes, but most Immortals here do not like Russians.Except perhaps one or two. And its hell to play without any interactions. Thus, I decided to quit too.

It has nothing to do with you being Russian.

Historically a hand full of Russian players were notorious for being huge cheaters, including setting up their own forums to discuss what they were playing, enemy strategies, and what gear they wanted and who had it. But that doesn't mean the IMMs as a whole ignore them.

There are Russian players currently playing the game that get lots of IMM attention.

It isn't your nationality in this case, it's you. Don't be so demanding and you won't be so disappointed.

Just a heads up.

>It isn't your nationality in this case, it's you


Aye. Let it'll be me.

We don't "not like Russians". The reason it might seem that way is because we tend to see more characters from Russian sites in the Realm of the Dead proportionally more often than we do characters from other sites. That doesn't mean we're "picking on" Russians or that Russians can't get immteraction or rewards, it just means you, for example, tell me you understand that unattended botting is a no-no and that you won't do it again... and then you do the exact same thing again later. And even so, you continue to be successful with empowerment, for example.

Please, comrade, forgive our "prejudice". </sarcasm>