Sun Oct 13 16:22:49 2013

At 7 o'clock AM, Day of the Great Gods, 12th of the Month of the Frost Giant
on the Theran calendar Nabor perished, never to return.

Race:	fire
Class:	anti-paladin
Level:	51
Alignment:	Evil
Ethos:	Orderly
Cabal:	SCION, the Scions of Eternal Night
Age:	290
Hours:	247

To Reksah, for squandering the opportunity given, to Zhenyen for not amounting to anything, heck even to team good for not having anyone to bravely fight against for most of the day. Well, you have Gharzal and Ruknubuk, maybe they'll actually be a little scary. I let myself down a little here too, I was determined to play it out til con death like I used to. But I have too much pride now, and when I'm staring down con death without much prospect of a PK, the will to keep eating mob deaths trying to regear is gone.

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nt

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Just tossing it out there!

I'm pretty sure you'd complain about how unfair it was that your other character didn't get a legacy if I did. :)

Touche - Sorry for being a douche...those multiple times I was a douche.

That said, if I promise not to complain does that mean I _DO_ get a legacy? ;)

I wouldn't consider it a reward on par with getting, say, Calming the Tempest.

Renewal is pretty good if you're an A-P with bloodlust and fairly low con. Depending on what kind of fights give you trouble it might well outshine Calming as a reward in that case.

Ones in which I was linkdead, I'd argue. There were very few who could toe to toe me solo with full preps on my end (usually achieved by dropping my strength if at all), and I hadn't even added stoneskin to my rotation.

(Admittedly the -25 str -10 dex wither Soviatos dropped on me was what made me think 'HELL NO, cleave and flee for you' and renewal would have helped with that, but losing the damage race wasn't really my issue)

Tee hee

You're a mob with low hp that doesn't track

I was grateful for for the legacy, which mitigated the problems of so many deaths. 'No amount of skill is going to let you survive a fight if you're not connected' is more what I meant.

Do you realize how screwed up this attitude is?

One time I was working on a movie and there was a homeless guy camped out near the production offices. I'd see him every day.

At one point I went to Mcdonalds and got lunch for the Producer. I also bought the homeless guy a cheeseburger.

When I got back and handed it to him he looked at me and said, "What? Only one?"

That was in 1997. Do you think I've bought food for a homeless person since?

Do you get what I'm saying?

I'm obviously not going to feel dissatisfied about getting con when I'm low on con, be it from a legacy or con-quest. It's a special thing that not everyone gets.

I was just pointing out that when people hear "legacy" they think of awesome things like Soul or Riddle or Chilling or whatever. Thus, saying "We gave you a legacy!", while technically true, was in a certain sense exaggerating the awesomeness.

Also, I admit I failed to consider bloodlust - having Renewal would indeed mesh well with that.

Yeah, there are probably more desirable legacies, but regardless of which one you get, I think the fact that you got a legacy on an AP outweighs which actual legacy it is, at least for me.

My last character (Jawn Foote) got a bunch of role-appropriate edges that I couldn't actually use (well, I guess if someone hit me with windwalk it would help out) but I was just psyched to see that sort of recognition.

Not every reward is going to make you a badass PKer. Some of them are little perks, some of them are just for flavor. Just be happy with what you get.

Frankly, a custom long was probably the best reward I've ever gotten, at least from where I'm coming from.

I chose that legacy because, in my mind, it was slightly better than just getting extra constitution. I actually hadn't considered bloodlust--I mostly just wanted to give him this legacy because I thought it would feel a little more special than having his constitution bumped up a few points.

As I told Nabor, he was far from an ideal character, but in a cabal of self-professed (both IC and OOC) badasses, he was easily the best about actually playing against overwhelming odds. If he wanted to keep doing that I was happy to acknowledge that and extend his life a little bit. Most other legacies would have both rewarded him more than I think the character currently deserved as well as not address his dwindling constitution.

I suspect now that you were the IMM involved, if not, nevermind.

Anyway, there's a long, involved thread on the other board about how an IMM talking to Nabor said "I'm not sympathetic to your cause," right before dropping a legacy on him.

Many of us suspect that this was a typo and it was supposed to read "I'm not UNsympathetic to your cause," but Nabor's player continues to insist that despite getting a legacy on his AP, no one was sympathetic to him.

Can you weigh in and let us know if the powers that be had some sympathy for this character (as I suspect they did, what with giving him a legacy?)

Is your basis for asking this to just diminish Nabor's player getting the legacy?

This thread spells it out to me, he fought against unfavorable odds, his con took a major hit for it and he got a reward to help counterbalance that.

Calling it a 'pity legacy' as they were doing in that thread to me is weak and petty. Just trying to hurt the guy's feelings or make him feel bad about a reward he got. We don't need to be that way to each other.

I generally try not to read the other forums (and even this one at times), as it really makes me much less interested in playing CF, but I did read that whole thread as it was happening.

People get rewarded for all types of reasons and calling it a pity legacy is, in my opinion, a hurtful attempt to diminish someone's effort. Nabor was doing something commendable by playing against odds that nobody else was in the cabal. He was making an effort in cabal RP above many of his cohort despite his frustrations.

He was not elite, but I'm glad he got the reward even if he decided to delete shortly after.

These things all amount for a bad character start. Even I take a lot of beatings at the start, but i understand that each character has different percents and different capabilities.

Eventually you hit the stride. But you have to use some intelligence, which this guy does not.

I'm interested to know how many pk loses he has compared to other people trying vs simple mob deaths trying to get stuff he cant.

I'm sure the imms have better things to do than answering questions about my deleted character

More like a lot challenged.

Don't take anything he says seriously, if you even read it.

nt

In fact, I'd like for him to feel better about his experience.

He seems very hung up on the idea that he was completely alone against overwhelming horrible odds.

From an outside perspective it looks like he had sympathy and support from at least one member of the staff, who was willing to do something that hasn't happened in a long time (if ever.)

As silly as it sounds I'm reminded of that footprints in the sand thing where the guy looks back at his life and asks why Jesus abandoned him in his times of need and Jesus is like "Dude, that's where I carried you."

I realize that he feels put-upon and set-against, and while that's largely a factor of his choice to play a difficult class during difficult times, it's not like he didn't have a decent amount of support, at least when it came to getting a helpful legacy laid on him for sticking it out.

I said in the interaction preceding the reward, you assume that was 'right before'. Is it a coincidence, for instance, that the con I got was equal to the number of charges earned between that talk and receiving it? I don't know for sure, but perhaps it wasn't.

And I'm sorry to doubt you to the level that I did.

At the same time, the only information we had to base our opinions off of was the information that you provided.

Now, despite the lack of sympathy spoken of, I hope you take this all as evidence that your efforts were not unnoticed. Sometimes that counts for a lot, at least it does for me.

I remember one time trying to retrieve the Head with my first hero (a Villager) and I was cursed, plagued, and blinded, running through Hamsah and I asked over cb "Am I alone?" hoping that there was some hidey person, hopefully a ranger with herbs who could help me out.

Help never came, and I died horribly, but in the moments before the Imperials caught up to me, a voice over cb said "You are never alone, Battlerager."

It didn't save me, but that reassurance was enough to let me know that at the very least, my struggles were not unseen, and that at least some god of Battle knew of my plight. That was enough to keep my spirits up.

It wasn't a typo. Reksah IC really didn't feel any state of kinship or care that those mean Fortress/Ragers/Outlanders/Empire were constantly beating Nabor (specifically) up and that Nabor was feeling discouraged. The IC motivation was to acknowledge behavior that I wanted the rest of the cabal to have and hope that they'd show up if Nabor kept acting as their meatshield :P

OOC, well, I still don't really have much sympathy for people that are upset about getting killed or otherwise "losing" in CF. I'm probably one of the least tolerant imms up here right now about people losing their cool and acting out. I've never really been the type of person to rage in games, online or in real life. So, I guess my OOC motivations were the same as my IC ones for the most part. It would have been easy to write Nabor off after posting a whiny 7 second login or some other stuff, but I try very hard to remember that everyone has their differences in personality and get over my preferences :)


On another note...one of the fun things for me about playing Reksah as an Imm is trying to create a very distinct persona by paying special attention to the words I use--from conversations, to echoes, to even my description. It's fun to exercise my creativity to paint a picture with both the words I use and don't use.

"OOC, well, I still don't really have much sympathy for people that are upset about getting killed or otherwise 'losing' in CF."

I think both sympathy and empathy are healthy and positive social skills and traits to have. Honestly, if you don't like, empathize and sympathize with people you're playing this game with, why even bother being here? It's a community game.

I find it bizarre that so many people try to play the internet tough guy in a game that's inherently about roleplaying with other people...how tough can people really be while pretending to be a drow in a fantasy text based game?

Not a knock on you specifically Reksah but more a question to the community as to who they really think they're fooling? We should all get over ourselves and try to be decent people to each other, even when that person is having a bad day, even if you're not a religious person inherently because some traits like empathy are to be admired in one another. If my son said something to the effect of, "Yeah I don't sympathize with that guy, he's a bitch" I'd slap him upside the head...treat others as you'd like to be treated, walk the high road, be a good person.

My lack of sympathy for ragers isn't about being tough. It's about acting like an adult and taking setbacks in stride and not ruining the atmosphere for environment for others by going OOC because you are upset. It's hard to have a community that works together if you can't count on some level of emotional stability.

I guess a better way to put it would be that I'm not very tolerant about breaking character because of this frustration. Of course I want everyone to enjoy the game, even the person being frustrated!

Like I said, it's not a knock on you.

I fail, myself, often, to live up to my own ideals but I really think *ideally* we try to boost each other up and not tear each other down.

As a community though we tend to have a little too much testosterone in how we deal with each other (myself included)...something we should all work on.

The high points of CF wouldn't be as poignant without the moments of crushing loss and frustration.

If you don't get frustrated, there isn't enough challenge.

Lose, get frustrated, get mad, but direct that towards overcoming that obstacle, not going on to the forums to complain about how someone else has a reward you don't.

And when you do overcome what frustrated you, enjoy the thrill.

The disconnect for me was hearing that you were "unsympathetic" and then giving him a relatively juicy reward.

But this explanation makes a lot of sense.

Thank you.

I'm also going to say that (and I might be in the minority on this) that I think there should be more rewards for sticking it out against long odds, so thanks for doing this, as it will hopefully help people feel less disheartened about bad odds.