Tue Jul 10 14:42:20 2012

At 1 o'clock PM, Day of the Sun, 6th of the Month of Futility
on the Theran calendar Djutima perished, never to return.

Race:	felar
Class:	anti-paladin
Level:	41
Alignment:	Evil
Ethos:	Chaotic
Cabal:	SCION, the Scions of Eternal Night
Age:	35
Hours:	134

I so wanted to make Djutima the first hero felar AP and I was so tantilisingly close to making that jump as I set myself the goal of making sure I had ice control before I advanced to levels 42 and up.

The catnap and tail crippling edges were the main reason my interest in playing an AP rose again and it was always going to be extremely tough and so I tried to make sure that Djutima was RP heavy and really involved in making some things happen in Scion, mostly through my relationship with the 'Eye in the Darkness'.

I ranked to 36 reasonably quickly as most APs do and ended up ranking to 38 by trawling through all the mobs and places I know there to be wands and/or think there is a good possibility of wands so if I was ever foolish enough to try an AP again I would wand search at 34 and end up at 36 instead (I was royally screwed over for wands though with this character and had to use limited shield and barrier when available). As it was I checked my edge availability and used tail crippler, which is a great addition. Stuck at rank 38 I decided to just puch to iron grip at 40 and hope that maybe catnap will open up then but I was soon to realise that Catnap was a level 42+ edge and that was a hard pill to swallow but still workable but maybe the helpfile could have elluded to it being 'Anti-Paladins in the advanced stages of their guild teachings etc etc'

I died a few times, badly I may add, and often at the mercy of the RNG when facing a certain fire sword spec RBW. I was slackjawed when I took you down to convulsing and chased you down and opened up with a faceslash to then see you demolish about 400hps inside a round! Anyway, you were a stand up player and never took anything, not even the unholy as, in your words,'respected the fight for what it was'. I died to you twice that night and was close to chucking a rage-deletion mental but the RP I embedded in the character saved me.

The reason for the delete was, as mentioned in the title, a crippling mental defeat. I think I have it logged and will post it later but to summarise the lead up to deletion; I was in Galadon and battled Balnor and his archangel and he got away but I was hurt so I teleported and then went to Udgaard to get a despoil item and then heal up some. At that point, Ragloghlin, a dark-elf AP I had not hunted actively as was pledged to the cause and seemed to not be weak and needy like some pledges and applicants are, arrived beside me and not wanting to risk getting slept I attacked, we fought, he died, I got two charges and grabbed his unholy that I lored to see it had 18 charges. I was ecstatic as that would have pushed my unholy up 53 as I had 35 of my own. I was at about 25% hp as I only had aura up, not expecting the fight, when a felar thief rager, Issiver I think, I will check the name later, decided to trip me to death when I was typing a reply 'mid-sentence' to Ragloghlin. my attempt to flee when the first trip missed was 'fkee' and I lost some choice pieces and most importantly my unholy.

The loss of which I could almost handle but as I reviewed the typo, the stupidity at not teleporting away and the fact that I was so close to going past 50 charges and getting to the start of being a potential powerhouse just crippled my mind and I rage deleted to then delete properly the next day. (The highs and lows of CF I guess)

The RP part could not save me despite Reksah being awesome and the Chancellor, Advisor and senior scions being extremely well RP'd because my times were ebbing away and I was lucky to get on every second night for an hour uninterrupted or when I was not too tired to play. Finishing at my current job as a head of department to start as a head of facaulty in September has me very busy at the moment and wife, kids, visiting family etc meant my loggings were too few and far between to keep the RP richness up to deal with the cruelty of the loss.

Still not sure if the rager took the unholy to sac it or if ragloghlin lied that he took it (which he is entitled to do so, I almost had his afterall) but I think it was more likely the latter and I could not live with my unholy being lost to another AP so cheaply and, dare I say, unwarrented. Anyway, that is why I ended it, despite being gutted for the last few days at seeing the end of one of my most enjoyable characters in CF for a few years.

Goodbyes:

Reksah and Scion - Absolutely awesome - the only two words needed.

Outlander - Fought a few of you but mostly when I was 41 and you were rank 49 shifters, rangers and fire giant warriors. Exciting as hell being at such a disadvantage but still managing a few surprises. Reraiding with invoker shields on the outer negated half my attacks and made it a pain so towards the end I often didn't come if Balete and Cgadi were about.

Fortress - Reraids were similarly difficult with Ilanthos and also invoker shields but the stand out among you had to be Tanion for being the luckiest SOB going. You were the reason I created a whole role chapter about how if it wasn't for 'Bad luck' I would not have any luck at all.

Tribunals - Had a few 'alliances' but they are mostly dead now.

Empire - who? Other than the felar assassin that tried to take me as an easy kill and paid for it, I never saw much of anything from you guys.

Battle - Fire RBW who killed me twice (I'm sorry I have forgotten your name) but you are class act in a cabal where your behaviour towards fallen enemies is often a rareness. Issiver, I will hate you eternally for the cheap kill. You must have been there a while to see the fight and you are within your rights to take the cheap kill as a hater of magic but my own self-respect dictates that I wouldn't regardless of your thinking that 'I'm not a berserker so I can act cowardly'. It is NOT that you can act cowardly it is more that you are not expected to be as heroic as the berserkers. Not the same thing. Thanks for the eq you did return as you already had the extensions etc but the lameness of my death meant it was too little, too late :(

Ragloghlin - It really was happenstance that we arrived in Udgaard together but you were within your rights to sneak away with my unholy. I just could not carry on knowing you had it so undeservingly. No hard feelings though.

Wafflely as always and if you have anything to add anyone I will reply if it merits it.

Abernyte

P.S. Thank you to the Imm who, I think, changed the AP edge 'exploit hobbling' to make it work on NPCs too. It seemed to change half-way through Djutima's life but thanks anyway.

Let me ease your mind on 2 things.

1. Raghloghin did not escape with your unholy. I did... and I destroyed it as asked by Issiver.

2. Issiver asked everyone to keep an eye out for you or Raghloghin. Almost at that exact moment you two began fighting in Udgaard. I told him you two were fighting and to come as quick as possible. He did and caught you with your pants down.

Sorry you deleted off that. GLWYN

Thanks for being an arse and doing what you are told but I guess he hands his hands full of the other loot. I guess that makes you a slightly more useful merc or golem.

You lost your unholy - Either go get another one or kill some of the APS out there for theres.

Sorry - Ooc.

Not sorry - IC.

cheers

I killed about 4-5 APs who were worth a charge each and Rag being two. The only one that had a weapon worth leeching was also Ragloghlin the rest had zero charges, sad but true.

That to one side and I am not whining about the loss of the unholy, only annoyed at the manner in which I lost it because as I said in my post I could have lost it 2-3 times before when other ragers killed me and never touched it, out of respect.

You split yourself into a sorry (ooc) and a not sorry (ic) but let me ask you this then to justify your statement.....

Did the pitchfork have a magic flag at all to make it seem magical to you?

Do you, the character, have a great deal of insight into the machinations of being an Anti-Paladin and know, in character, for a fact that it is magical? It is called an 'unholy blessing' afterall and could be god given or ritualistic seeing as you have never learned in the Anti-Paladin guild you wouldn't know, in character that is because we all know OOC that it is a spell.

Did you therefore take the weapon to weaken an enemy of the village, as defined by the tablet(necros, shifters, invokers, transmuters, conjurers and APs)?

If the answer to the previous question was 'Yes' - Do you not, like most villagers, expect to at least get your weapons or some of your weapons back from enemies who have felled you despite the fact that this would be contrary to how you have justified, above, taking a characters ONLY weapon?

If your answer was no, you don't expect to get weapons etc back then fine, I hope some lowbie loots the crap out of your next PK loss.

Not that I necessarily agree with ragers sacrificing the weapon.

But I have no doubt it was a grief move because they went out of their way to grief a character of mine.

So the more people they drag in to their #### behavior, the better they look in retrospect.

Based only on what is posted in this thread this is my impression of the situation.

1.) Villager asks other villagers to be on the look out for a specific mage (totally kosher and standard thing to do in any cabal)
2.) Lowbie villager spots mage and tells first villager the location.
3.) Mage and other mage get into fight, abernyte wins.
4.) first villager shows up and waxes mage (Some villager roles may frown on attacking wounded opponents but most don't, especially those of stealth classes so this is also kosher from a rules of the village standpoint)
5.) First villager is low on inventory space and has lowbie village loot/destroy the AP's unholy weapon (destroying magicl weapons possibly housing the trapped souls of other villagers... yeah thats kosher, if anything it wouldn't be kosher to not sac it)

Abernyte's point about would a villager know that AP's use unholy weapons is so ####ing off that I can't believe a village vet wouldn't assume all villagers have basic understandings of each mage classes keystone abilities. Wait you mean shapeshifters can turn into animals?!?!?!?!?!?!


Are these villagers generally ####s to people? I have no clue at all but the entire scenario described in this thread is not really shady at all. (villager has scout find mage, villager kills mage, AP weapon gets saced... why is there even a thread about this?)

Even then though, I am not sure it's too big a deal. This just looked like generally bad luck for the a-p, who by his own words knew he should have teleported after the kill but didn't.

That's just CF, sometimes you make a mistake and it costs you, it's nothing to get bent out of shape over, nor is it worth attacking their still active characters over. And that's a drawback of an A-P, you risk losing those charges when you die- but I always see charges as perks of the class, not a necessity of them since you keep controls once you earn them.

I think really the posts were pretty neutral overall, just a stating of opinion based on what happened (though Alston did a bit to fan some flames that was not needed) and I still think it is nice to see people having generally a civil discussion about things. :)

1. I never expect to get a single thing back when I die from PK. Its been times I have come back and all my weapons, except maybe one, are gone. I am an assassin so if they take all my weapons - then i just have to accept that and move on or fight with no weapons until I can get some. I have come back from PK and I only have 2-3 things to wear - lowbie things that can be found in aldevarri. People throw hissy fits when I take 2-3 magical things after I kill them to give to tahren. Then if they do kill me they try to take as much as they can or sacrifice as much as they can. So... Eh...

2. The pitchfork did not have a magical flag...but for the simple fact I was standing right there when you killed Raghlohin and saw it eat his soul up...I can only assume its a magical evil weapon, and must be destroyed.

3. It wasnt your only weapon. I took 2 weapons. One spear. One sword. Rahgloghin got his spear back - unfortunately. And I didnt get anything else. I handed the rear-claw extensions to Issiver. Who returned them to you.

The corpse of Djutima contains:
rear-claw extensions
a bandit's robe
( 2) a wooden disc marked with a triskelion
( 2) a wooden ring with a black opal
the Bracelet of Charms
a dull wand crafted of lead
the Seantryn Battle Helm
a fang-covered skirt
the belt of strength
a potion of return
a phylactery of free movement
the hide of the Ancient Red Dragon
a pitchfork of black lightning
(Glowing) a shimmering blue potion
a slim white porcelain rod
( 2) a sleek amber rod
(Glowing) (Humming) a scimitar named 'Wave Dancer'
a wand of return
a bloody flail of bludgeoning
a bracer of dragonscale
(Humming) a forked rod of pure iron
(Humming) a long titanium spear
a longspear with a wicked, black blade

1) Rather than be the exception to change the rule you would adopt the stance of just being the rule. Maybe I should do the same and lessen my disappointment when it happens BUT then those people who do treat others with respect just get my hopes up again. Damn those people to hell!

2) Must be magical then - could not possibly be anything else in the world of CF where a man can call upon the wrath of god!

3) If you were there to watch the kill then you would have seen that the titanium and longspear were Ragloghlins as I did a get spear corpse twice. I do love the fact that my question was if you took my only weapon to weaken an enemy etc etc and your clarifying reply is that I had two weapons and you took both, that actually made me lol this morning so thanks for that.

Had a few PM's from people saying that this is a lesser form of the treatment that have received from Yoshika so I suppose I should feel grateful. Try an AP some time and work for 50+ hours to build a half-decent weapon to then eat a ####ty death and have some out of range douchebag loot and destroy it and see how disheartening that is. Not quite the same as an assassin who CAN fight hand to hand and assassinate people to reequip.

Anyway, enough of my general malaise with regards to Djutima's demise.

See you in the fields.

Funny that people are sending you messages about my 'treatment' I have given them.

The only things I really ever take are magical items...and I dont even take all of them.

Some people can loot whoever for whatever they want when they kill them...but as soon as you loot them and take a few things they:

1. Break character
2. Threaten to full loot you forever and make your life hell
3. Complain and tell all there buddies
4. Show up on death threads talking ish about you and spreading all they can bad about your character to make people hate you IC.

I have NEVER dropped a full loot on someone with this char. Its crazy to hear that I am giving all this 'treatment'...when in I actually dont do or take much.

See you in the fields

For clearing that up for him, I'm sure he was going out of his mind.

1. I'm curious if you were in his pk range? If not WELL DONE on succesfully getting away with it!

a) Its always important to make sure you get all the loot and sac his unholy, that way you can ensure he will come back to fight again.

2. Well done on that too!!! Two evenly matched foes slugging it out in an epic battle! Of course that rager thief should come in and Kill the victor (to prove his strength). Then he should FULL loot him so much that he cant pick up the unholy weapon, Dont worry :) You got his back dawg :)

As an aside, why make your post other than to troll, I suppose if you wanted the player base to know about your awesome scouting, looting and sportsmanship skills, THEY do now :)

GLYWN out of pk HEIST!! I Cant wait :)


On a side note, I liked this AP, kept a low profile while slowly gathering charges, was looking forward to seeing a felar AP at hero, with a bit of a power house.

So I take it your post holds no reason other than to troll. Specially since your didnt use YOUR name and your NOT him. Shut up.

Also please keep your opinions or whatever to yourself. He wasnt full looted and he got his things returned.

Sorry I dont think Issiver needed to "prove his strength" - but the mage died and thats all that matters.

He lost his unholy - I dont know any ragers that should be giving that kind of thing back.

This post was for HIM, not you. Whoever you are.

You mad for him bro? Get over it.

So I take it your post holds no reason other than to troll.
^^ You got me, I hold my hands up

especially since your didnt use YOUR name and your NOT him. Shut up.
^^^ I Did use my name, this is the name I use when I am commenting on gameplay issues, good or bad, none of my characters know your character well enough to make an ic commentary on it.

Also please keep your opinions or whatever to yourself. He wasnt full looted and he got his things returned.
^^^ He claimed he was full looted, while I was cackling in an ooc manner regarding his demise.


Sorry I dont think Issiver needed to "prove his strength" - but the mage died and thats all that matters.
^^^ You are correct the mage die wooo wooo, personally I'm more annoyed that I wont now get to pk him later when he has a big weapon etc.



He lost his unholy - I dont know any ragers that should be giving that kind of thing back.
^^^ Yeah I know, but for the sake of game play and fun people often do, in fact I dont remember the last time I looted anyone - Perhaps one day I shall post some logs of the imba loot that I did indeed not loot.


This post was for HIM, not you. Whoever you are.
^^^ I'm the guy that normally makes Aber delete by being a prick to him in char, or pking him, then telling him it was me.


You mad for him bro? Get over it.
^^^ I'm not mad for him bro, I'm sad for you, you dont even realise lol.


In closing I do hope you are enjoying all the dirt you are eating, and a special thanks goes out to Relgarr and Hanna :)

It's funny how you can't even hide behind a pair of #### for even a single sentence.

I'm looking forward to you posting on Gargaxx's deletion thread to. I got more goodies there for you.

nt

rtbvwtvbs

n/t

svwrv

You and everyone here is better than the BS that people spout, but you guys don't exercise restraint and make it worse. Hence the negativity.

And yes, I had to spell it out.

There's no flame there. It's a very neutral exchange, in the context that one player already did something the other didn't like and is just explaining what happened and why.

Which... kind of makes you the asshole in this thread, that being the case. Sorry.

sbwrt

gr

rtbwrt

sdbsb

nt

So whose lying? Me or you by your own admission?

You dont want to leave that one alone do you.

He complains on the forum about village activities.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=46138&mesg_id=46138&page=

Why would I jump in a fight? I didnt jump in any fights. I woke up Gargaxx who asked me to wake him if he got slept.

Why would I jump in this fight? I couldnt harm either mage.

He is mad because I looted a few magical things from his corpse.

Admitting to ####ty behavior.

And you've admitted to lying about it.

A Necromancer that Had poison and weaken and blindness for his entire malediction repertoire?

A duel to boot?

Please.

Now I know exactly who your char is now and I dont even want to interact with you anymore. I wish you had just kept your mouth closed.

The simple fact that you called me "rogue" multiple times IC and even said it in an ooc format one time just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. You have no idea or clue the player behind my character. So please just stop.

You mentioning two people who are in completely seperate cabals who I fought with recently also lets me know you guys know each other OOC and must be friends or something.

Also gargaxx told me it was not a duel - that you were just attacking him and he could not see you. If you wanted a duel, go to the arena.

I was supposed to sit there and let a mage spell up an applicant and watch him die? Just for no reason? So if you sleep someone their brother in arms is supposed to let them sleep and you spell them up? Just to watch them die? No.

Good Day. You will recieve no more comments from me. See you in the fields.

I have promised I won't out him again.

This being, determining when someone is played by person X, or when someone is breaking actual game rules (not rping in a way you don't agree with or going against cabal rules)? You routinely are wrong and are shown you are wrong about this sorts of situations. Can you just stop trying to police/out people and enjoy the game?

And the people I disagree with naturally voice their opinion.

I don't think I'm wrong in the vast majority of what I say.

How about this. Go back over your last few posts in order until you come to one where someone of merit says, hey, that is a good idea Pro, or you really hit the nail on the head there. Then report back how many ago it was. If you are posting 20+ times for every time someone agrees with you, that isn't because "people you disagree with naturally voice their opinion" it is because your "opinions" are so wrong people feel the need to post to correct them. As an example, see this post.

Most of the time people will simply ignore something that isn't completely idiotic but isn't necessarily something they agree with... Well other people at least. Not so much you. As an example see Gaspar's hell post.

Have in even tones asked for help and been thrashed?

I'm sure you're in there a few times. You did it here, just now. I'm happy to let things go but you guys take it and make it to personal.

If you don't like what I post do and ignore posters you don't like.

When you attack me, it forces me to respond in order to clarify or defend a view point.

Are some of my posts angry? Sure, but by and large most are not.

There are some players, like rogue who ruin the game in my opinion and I've been vociferous in lambasting them, but for the most part, I ask for help and offer ideas and get attacked from the peanut gallery often in the guise of being helpful.

Just like you did now.

And some of the stuff that is said if outright horrific and I have had to ask to have removed.

Another thing. My threads are more often huge with little participation by me in them because I bring up valid points. Not all but enough.

Are you just supposed to watch while your brother in arms is spelled up by that shaman!? Are you just supposed to watch while that dagger spec makes your brother in arms bleed? Watch him die? No.

Jump in on every fight.

This argument is ####ing terrible. He's using a class skill. Your brother in arms should have taken steps to prevent it, just like he should take steps to deal with being dagger maledicted.

I hope you were drunk when you wrote this because :

1. Shaman hitting someone with a commune - they are fighting.

2. Dagger spec making rager bleed - they are fighting.

3. Necromancer/Bard sleeping someone - they are NOT fighting.

You tell me a cabal where someone gets slept

Your argument is terrible. Yes a level 15 warrior applicant should be prepping to stop an invisible necromancer from sleeping them. They should go gather all the hero armor that gives the best -svs spell then sleep wont affect them.

rtbwrt

Lets go through several examples of why your argument fails.

JoeApplicant yells, "Help! Necroguy is attacking me!"

They are still fighting, though one of the parties is *currently* unable to act. Essentially, being slept means you had a single clash, and in that one clash, the necromancer put the guy to sleep, and the result, after a time delay, is that the applicant is spelled up and will inevitably lose. Lets say that time delay didn't happen. If necro was instead a shaman, and they were fighting before the shaman hit malediction critical mass and applicantguy is guaranteed to die. Applicantguy now blinds the shaman, and flees one room, but cannot move any further, and shaman follows. Both are now in the room blind, though one is very likely to win, and just cant finish him off just yet. Are you now able to attack the shaman and save your "brother in arms?" What if the shaman is one hit from death as well? Yes or no answers only.

Let's say that I am a dagger/mace spec, and you're an invoker. If I maledict you heavily with my daggers after getting off a hurl throat so you can't do much, then I switch to maces and knock you out with a cranial. Is it then okay for my rager buddy to come and finish you off? Yes or no answer only.

What if instead of exiting combat, the slept guy kept attacking for misses or some other nonsense. Would it then be okay for you to jump in so long as he was slept?

You draw this line specifically because you know that your bro is very likely to die because he messed up, and because you could be in the same situation. I can't stop you from jumping in on your buddy's fight, but at least admit why you're doing it instead of trying to make bad arguments to justify it.

edited a subject antecedent disagreement

There has been plenty of discussion concerning the okayness of playing out various situations involving sleep and villagers. The most generally accepted position is that waking villagers is ok. The major exception to that is Thror following villagers (its like the village version of being a baerinika maran paladin they just have a different standard)

Suffice it to say all your rants in this current thread reinforce is the fact that you don't really grasp what is and is not good/poor relative roleplay for a villager.

If you are interested in learning it then you will need to play several villagers. The village is the longest lasting cabal in the game, it has changed several times over the years and is actually in a fairly high state of flux with each mortal and immortal leader. Some of what you have said would have been accurate to a given era but may not neccesarily be true or as true today.

Naking the statment that he needs to play several ragers to understand. He does not. The rules for ragers are written out.

oops

rtbrtbrt

I was going to be quiet on this, but oh well, I'll chime in. If a villager is slept by a mage, and I happen to be nearby, I am going to wake them up unless the battlerager says specifically not to, almost without exception for a defender or scout (a berserker it may vary on the situation but I will still wake them generally). And I would expect any other bard to do the same in Battle. However, as a bard I can do this without engaging the mage or the Battlerager, and that makes all the difference in my view. You can disagree if you want, it doesn't really matter to me.

I would also not be surprised if a defender helped out another battlerager in a similar situation.

And your examples that you want yes or no answers to are pretty pointless since you fail to address all the following relevant information:
- Am I a scout/defender/berserker or hope to be?
- Is the guy waking me scout/defender/berserker or hopes to be?
- Skirmish or siege related?
- Where is the head?
- Who is in PK range of the mage, One or both?
- What classes are the two battleragers?
- What are their roles?
- How effective do I know the other battlerager to be (are they new in the cabal or more experienced that it may not be a death sentence)
- Has the fight been claimed or has there been any other CB communication related to it?

These questions are applicable in every given example and need to be looked at before a decision is made saying fine battlerager behavior/bad battlerager behavior (that's how I try to look at any questionable things I see before deciding if and when discipline is appropriate)

Without addressing them your questions can't be answered as yes or no. There are general guidelines to follow as a Battlerager, and there are situational exceptions to those. Being in battle is a bit more rigid than other cabals in how you are expected to act, but it still allows for some wiggle room so to speak.

The fact is nothing, not even Battle, is so purely black and white that there are pure yes and no answers to things that happen. I may take a different view of a situation than a battle imm might, who might also differ from another battle imm, who differs from what past commanders might have done.

The open ended nature of RP and such is part of the fun of CF, and pure rigidity hampers rather than engenders players to having roles and being engaging interesting characters overall.

Interpretations of the rules depends on the leaders. For those of you who state 'oh, this is how it SHOULD BE because that's what I say', play a rager and try to enforce it in game instead of bitching out of game.

That said, for the most parts, my ragers agreed with the assessments of not waking up sleeping allied, unless I'm asked to. Even then, I sometimes don't because I typically played thror ragers :)

I miss you Thror. Heart.

n/t

Your way brings two berserkers to a fight.

I would think that's grounds for dismissal.

I wanted to see you as the first felar hero AP (at least in my days...) and with those edges. A shame our hours didn't match, and the times they did, I was super busy with PK and stuff.

Had a few plans for you but as we didn't match much, they got screwed.

Sucks with unholies, I know for certain. ;)

GLWYN

Dang, hate seeing this! Play time loss?
Hope you return!

GLWYN

NT