Sun May 6 15:28:50 2012

At 7 o'clock AM, Day of Thunder, 17th of the Month of the Dark Shades
on the Theran calendar Garrosh perished, never to return.

Race:	cloud
Class:	druid
Level:	51
Alignment:	Evil
Ethos:	Chaotic
Cabal:	None, None
Age:	268
Hours:	166

I think this character had good points. You were seriously a multi killer though, and I think you need to try and curb that in the future. I admire you for stepping outside of your comfort zone, and I think it was more a poor choice of religion to do it with (I'm not brave enough to tackle GWB or Scarab religions) and I don't think I would have gone with the "psionic" method of communication since we don't really have much like that in game already. Also, losing your temper on dio's when you deleted doesn't really do anyone any favors.

But you'll be back, you'll have learned from this experience, and you'll do better next time.

nt

I suppose I'll make a few comments here that will explain the announcement at the end.

First, at the start I thought this character had some real promise. I confess I have been wary of characters attempting the neutral GWB path since there is a fine line to walk; unlike my colleagues, I find the path possible though difficult. Garrosh seemed to bring some real determination and enthusiasm to the table, which I liked.

But there were problems:

• At some point you essentially became Murderdruid, and one that multi-killed folks. From on high you looked like someone intent on killing anyone you came across who you thought you could take out, and in our exit interview you asserted that "Chaotic Neutral implies doing whatever I want." That you can't tell the difference between Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Evil is problematic.


• You didn't take correction well. I thought your talk with Dvalygg (who did a marvelous job, I think) would clear things up, but it didn't. In the end you became a Murderdruid that acted like a animal and you never really seemed to catch on to what the religion was about; I'll be honest, that was really frustrating. For example, you would get one element right, but then you'd go off and be Murderdruid anyway. Having just been through an unteachable bout with stubborn Sagraa, I just didn't want to do it again.


• When I watched you in parties, you acted like a big know-it-all, telling characters of other classes how to maximize their skills/spells. Maybe some folks would find that helpful, but I found it terribly OOC for a GWB druid. After I talked to you about this, you were better about it, but you also cut out your tongue to stop the chatter.


• But cutting out your tongue didn't really change anything, because then you started communicating with people *psionically*. Yeah, not a fan of that at all. If you're going to impose silence on yourself, then don't start sending elaborate psionic messages to people. I loathed this enough that I did the job for you by removing the psionic communication nonsense.

That brings us to the finale:

Within moments of being changed to Chaotic Evil, you seemed to think you deserved special treatment (avoiding alignment change consequences) despite being pointed to HELP 2309. You lasted, what, two minutes?

In our conversation in the RotD you came off as paranoid, as having entitlement issues, and as emotionally manipulative.

Regarding the paranoia, you seemed convinced I knew who you were. Even after you told me you were Jerrokrar, I'll be honest and admit all I remember about that character is folks thought he was a big douche. One area in which Cyradia and I are quite alike is that I don't remember player names apart from stellar interactions and I sure don't keep track of who is who. I'm in the last months of writing a dissertation; I don't know if you know what that's like, but I don't have time to be sniffing around for drama. You got what you got from me because I thought this character was stubbornly blowing off the GWB doctrine. So while you think "everyone knows who I play", don't flatter yourself. To me you were a druid who started with promise and eventually became a headache to deal with. I'm now sad I had as much patience with you as I did.

Regarding entitlement, you commented in the RotD that "The point is this is a well-roleplayed character being sent into extreme conditions for no reason." A neutral-only class being changed to evil faces the same consequences that anyone else does. Alignment change is a big deal.

Regarding emotional manipulation--and this is a PSA for anyone reading this--threatening to quit the game is not a viable way to make me agree with you. I don't negotiate with terrorists.

So, on to the announcement. Given the frustrations involved with the GWB religion, I'm shelving it for at least a year. I have too much on my plate to manage something that is turning out to be more headache than fun. After I'm Dr. Sacer I'll think about whether or not it warrants resurrection.

Kerblammo.

One of the very few things that could have pulled me back into CF. I always loved playing GWBs and have enjoyed the several over the years. Guess not many others ever figured it out or could play it well...

Good luck with the dissertation.

Because too many people who try to go down this route REALLY just don't get it, and wind up acting more like Scarab followers in neutral suits. Dealing with people like that is a huge headache for the players, I can't even imagine what it must be like for you.

It's something I don't like doing, especially if the character seems to be making an honest effort. Garrosh (and I guess I'll have to Google the name to see what you're talking about above) seemed to be putting real, consistent effort into RPing; he just wasn't RPing a GWB druid.

> Garrosh (and I guess I'll have to Google the name to see what you're talking about above) seemed to be putting real, consistent effort into RPing; he just wasn't RPing a GWB druid.

This is another salient point: the quality of your RP doesn't render you immune to the consequences of that RP, including but not limited to others' reactions to it.

For what it's worth, I also don't see what's wrong with the name and I also had no idea who the player was until this thread.

nt

http://www.wowwiki.com/Garrosh_Hellscream

is the problem, does that mean it isn't documented enough or that you aren't explaining it enough in your immteractions? I'm not trying to place all the blame on you, especially in the context of having to deal with a ####bag like Jerrokar, but I've tried GWB a couple of times and felt like I was just floundering without any direction and eventually gave up after our first interaction (via a mob) because I had no idea what the expectation was.

Tac

At the inception of the Saraba backstory I never really intended it to develop into a PC-available religion. I was thinking about how natives or barbarians living in a remote and potentially non-philosophical setting might have a different take on the Cult. There was a little interest in it years ago and I took on a few followers to see what would happen and then moved on to other things. It was a fun experiment.

What I didn't expect was the recent resurgence in interest in the GWB Cult--pretty much to the exclusion of the Scarab Cult. The first couple folks seemed to get the trajectory and I was willing to run with it; but now? You're right: the documentation on it is light (especially since the big crash) and what was intended as more of a one-off experiment has turned into a great expectation. So, we're better off without it for a while.

The barbarian god aspect of it is the huge draw for me, nothing else quite fits compared to it and to be fair i can probably better comprehend the GWB than i do the straight up cult. Shame you've had to drop it in self defence, but c'est la vie.

I spent a good few months pugging WOTLK 10/25 man heroics Garrosh Hellscream being the Son of Grom Hellscream (Hordes answer to chuck norris. Garrosh is reckless and gets killed, before being turned evil and undead by the Lich King... Theres a cut scene before you fight this boss, and I must have watched it over 1000 times, along with 5 milllion other people. Seriously how hard is to make up a unique ####ing name and character concept....

On this char at times he didnt seem totally murder druid and seemed to attack people that were genuine enemies, I totally thought he was outlander from the people he would choose to hunt though.

It's a very complex religion, and it's a SUPER fine line to walk. People can be RPing their role to a perfect T and having a complex and well thought out role and still fail at the religion. People who fail often cry "But I was sticking to my role!", and the thing they always ALWAYS seem to not understand is, that role just doesn't fit the religion. Nobody ever disputes the failed candidates RPed well and stuck to their roles, but it's just such a fine line that most roles WON'T work with the religion. I feel bad because in almost every case the characters WERE roleplayed well and had well thought out roles, and then I always shake my head when they fail to see where their role just didn't REALLY fit on that fine line.

I'm replying to Scarabaeus' post, but this is for random player benefit.

>"Chaotic Neutral implies doing whatever I want."
>That you can't tell the difference between Chaotic Neutral and
>Chaotic Evil is problematic

This is how I shorthand it:

Being Chaotic implies doing whatever you want, yeah.

But now let's look at what you want. Is it generally pretty evil? (Or, is it even sometimes really evil?) Then you're Chaotic Evil, even if your character doesn't see himself that way.

Another helpful adage: Chaotic Evil means never having to say you're sorry.

Was this Jerrokrar? Torak? Delalken? I dont talk to anyone about CF so I apologize for not knowing.

I am glad Scarab (Who is probably my favorite immortal for interactions ever) is neutering murder druids who want to be GWB. Maybe you got a harsher punishment because he is more sensitive to this stuff because of a few bad apples.


That said with my character Dormoth I really enjoyed fighting Garrosh all the time, we had quite a few battles.

If I understood our conversation in the RotD correctly, he is claiming that he was Jerrokrar:

Garrosh says 'I just started playing again and that was pre-Jerrokrar and announcing who I was. I had been in hiatus for years.'
Garrosh says 'Hence why I sucked.'

You say 'You seem to think I know who you are.'

Garrosh says 'Everyone knows who I play :P'
Garrosh says 'Without me keeping in communication with anyone or anything to do with CF.'

You say 'I have no idea who you are. I'm not sure if you're implying that you're Jerrokrar or not'

He never actually answered that.

nt

You being a douchebag isn't helping you redeem anything, nor is it turning the finger around at Scar. All you are doing is making yourself look more like a jackass. If you really are walking away, walk away. If not, quit the #### and try to be a god damn positive influence instead of a festering boil.

I for some reason thought the poster was Delalken posting mean things to scar.

Silly brain meat.

Having interacted with SEVERAL with your characters, I can say with great confidence that your roleplay ability is basically the same on all of them. You act the same way with all of them, you fight everything that moves with all of them, and you will throw the RP right out the window for personal reasons with all of them.

Trust me, all the negative attention you get you deserve it. You bring it all on yourself. People don't dislike your characters because they're you. People dislike your characters because you are the same arrogant never can be wrong prick with all of them.

Maybe the entire playerbase isn't wrong. Maybe you are a total jackass, and you just fail to see that you haven't really ever contributed anything special to the game.

Scarab did nothing wrong here. You blew it for yourself, just like you always do.

your mistake?

Because I was serious. love me some Sacer, such a neat guy.

In my defense I've had a 103 temperature for 2 days with the flu, and i'm heavily medicated. So no, that wasn't directed at you.

My post was meant for Jerrokrar, and I still stand by what I wrote. Just not directed at you.

Apologies.

And when I see you in real life I will grab your arm and make you punch yourself in the face, all the while asking you why are you hitting yourself.

nt

nt

I feel most sorry for the friends/poor mugs you ask to proof read it, heh. I read my wives Thesis about 5 times in total looking for errors. I am sure it ruined my vision permanantly.

Other than my supervisor and a couple scholars who have been helpful in my research, I don't know anyone with the background to do proofreading--so my friends and family are safe.

After another day's reflection (which I won't go into here), I've decided to background myself on CF anyway. I've listed my religion(s) as dormant, have closed the shrine and temple (next reboot), and will stick to working behind the scenes. If a little leaven leavens the lump, I've had more than my share of leaven on CF; I'll stick to a realm where crazies won't feel any magnetic pull.

Peace out.

CF loses all of their best remaining Immortals because the playerbase is turning into whiny ####s!

Can they rebound and start respecting each other so other IMM's come out of the woodwork?! Stay tuned!

Heh you know... you're one of those guys yourself at times, right?

Not IC whatsoever I haven't.

You troll the forums with ####ty passive aggressive comments and are like a 0 factor in terms of being anything other than a behind the scenes Immortal. Plus you're on file of saying you really don't care much anymore and you wondered about pulling the plug.

So anything from you really means nothing to me. Especially after promoting your wife to Goddess of CF and having her run off the rest of the IMM's who mattered.

Okay... can we agree that you should take your meds and we can agree to disagree on the rest of it?

As long as all the IMM's and Avatars that quit because of her take the same meds so we can all be fixed of our ignorance.

But you know, it's just my opinion and only matches a dozen or so people that I've talked to in the midst of many players I don't speak to at all. So I guess I'm entitled to it and I'll keep it to myself since I feel better for airing it out now :)

No need to derail Garrosh's thread though. I just wanted to express how priceless Scarabaeus is to the mud and that I appreciate him.

You have an opinion, but it's about things that you don't really know half a #### about.

Anyway. I think you feel like Jerrokrar's particular brand of drama drives the Scarabaeuses of the world away, and your particular brand of drama doesn't. I think you feel like you're one of the good guys and he's one of the bad guys. I think you might take a long look in the mirror and realize you're not so different from him.

Edit: I'm going to attempt to stop posting here. This isn't helping anything.

My kind of drama just might not be convenient for you because you're a lover of covering things up and lying to us, Cabdru being the best example. So no matter what you say, there's no way anyone can really take it for what it is.

I know much more than half a #### about what I'm talking to considering I spoke to the IMM's and Avatars I'm directly referring to and they all echoed the same sentiments of her favoritism, constant bitchyness, and blatant attitude of untouchable entitlement. One even told me about Baerinika and her IP tracker of "287.32.34.211 logged in (insert forum handle)" which you guys obviously can't do even though we know you can.

There's nothing you can do to convince me otherwise of how shady you guys are and how high and mighty you try your hardest to appear to be. Because, I know for a fact that most of them aren't lying to me, and there rest I have no reason to doubt. So we can just peacefully let the conversation taper off here and if you feel like getting a last word comment in, be my guess and we will let it stop there.

> One even told me about Baerinika and her IP tracker of "287.32.34.211 logged in (insert forum handle)" which you guys obviously can't do even though we know you can.

I'll just interject that as someone who plays in the same room as she does I know that doesn't actually exist. Nor does anything like it.

The rest, well, no. You don't know what you're talking about.

There was a time I really thought you'd grown up from the days where you'd claim to have phone conversations with Valg and I'm as sorry as anyone whenever I'm reminded that that's not the case.

...giving people second chances.

Told you it was crazy you tatted his Nexus bard. CRAZY.

You're a bigger man than me though (and Twist, do not take that in the way I know you will hahahaha). If people treated me like they treated you and your wife I'd just perma-ban them.

wow. schizophrenia in action.

Not that I matter in the grand scheme of things...but cutting off your nose to spite your face has always seemed ####ing retarded to me.

But I do admit that Raybaer leaving the game right now would likely reduce my playing hours by 30-80%.

That is ridiculously spiteful and uninformed. No one should have to read your empty, hateful drivel, particularly not Raybaer. You are purposefully attempting to hurt another person's feelings who has done nothing to you, and I think that is reprehensible.

nt

Nep's wife is hands-down one of the best IMMs going right now dude.

I really really don't understand the vitriol that gets spouted at her STILL after 5+ years. Hasn't she ####ing proved herself yet?

For ####'s sake guys. Stop being assholes and just play the ####ing game AS a game. ####.

Dude you and NbM perma. The pbfs don't lie.

You've lied in the past and tried to stir up anti-Nepenthe sentiment on the forums OOC multiple times. Meanwhile conveniently ignoring or not mentioning you engage in the very behavior you bitch about.

So let me quote you "ANYTHING FROM YOU MEANS NOTHING TO ME".

Re: Baerinika, I'd argue Ray/Baer is the hardest working, most interacting, most different IC hat wearing imm there is, and she and I disagree a ton on the forums ;)

So, yoshimi, do the playerbase a favor and stop talking like you know #### about anything other than how to bitch or how to cheat.

I will roll characters to play in cabals with other interesting characters. But I don't base my log-on times around anything but my own availability(Work, Preggers wife, 5-year old that just started t-ball and soccer and peewee football).

Think what you want though.

Looking at pbfs and having characters at the same time as yours in the same cabal, I agree you don't perma in that sense but you do play characters who seem to interact favorably with Trip's quite a bit.

There is no rule against that.

nt

Hope to see you back in some way, shape or mort!

nt

You beat my ass a bunch when I was Dormoth and showed class and stuck around in close fights you beat me down in. Great char that I saw.