Mon Jun 20 16:54:41 2011

At 9 o'clock AM, Day of the Bull, 29th of the Month of the Heat
on the Theran calendar Silja perished, never to return.

Race:	human
Class:	warrior
Level:	47
Alignment:	Evil
Ethos:	Orderly
Cabal:	SCION, the Scions of Eternal Night
Age:	51
Hours:	234

Shame on Silja for doing as Baer stated before. It's bush league, and the actions of a little kid.

But that's nothing compared to a respected imm titling someone like that. While this may make veteran players laugh and giggle, I doubt most newbies who see that think fondly of it. Driving away players shouldn't be the goal, humiliating players shouldn't be the goal. Silja was privately an idiot (evidently), publicly tolerable (mostly). Imms should really think twice before titling like this.

A veteran imm known as being creative should be able to come up with something better than this to get a point across.

Hypothetical: Would you rather your character have a somewhat demeaning (yet, still fairly accurate) title, or would you rather your character be maimed in a way that carries serious mechanical consequences?

I don't think many people, if they're being honest, would pick the latter.

Edit: You, personally, are clearly voting for things to be handled differently and that's heard, but I don't see a viable alternate solution that I think most of the other players would prefer.

I think the title is too general. Without the general public knowing much about the character, then I'm sure it'll automatically be assumed that they are, in general, a spineless blowhard. However, the more accurate title should've been "Spineless Before Baerinika" or something to that effect.

You even said yourself that this character was really quite decent in most respects. So I'd have to think the character wasn't a "Spineless Blowhard" to everyone; just "gods" who have immense "power" and can neuter your character.

>You even said yourself that this character was really quite
>decent in most respects.

But read the rest of that post; he was a decent competitor/player mechanically, but more than anything else he was known for running his mouth.

Like Charles Barkley without the charisma or sense of humor.

I've seen a few, but generally unless you are hero they tend to go away when you level or something. That shouting fire giant had a title which now appears gone for example.

The only real problem I see with smack talk is when there are pretty large level disparities. Otherwise you can find and kill the guy, or will be able to soon hopefully. I always liked taking them to the arena just to make them shut up when they are really far below my level though. And if they decline, you mock them. And after you whip their ass bad, you mock them. And if they run their mouth after that, then maybe I use the ignore command, but I think ignore should be a last option, not a first.

Just sort of a tangent. I think what Baer did was fine, and I would rather have the temp title than have my char suffer something like being muted or gimped or something anyway as Daev said. People that don't show respect to an Imm should be punished. It's Baer. What the hell can some mortal human do to her that he should be smack talking? Doing it to mortals is one things, or about that imm's followers, but directly to the imms is entirely another. You mess with an Imm, and you only get a temp neg title, you got off easy. Enlilth gives people herpes and such. Cyradia probably flat out kills you. Ysaloerye boots people into the underdark.

- I would rather have the temp title than have my char suffer something like being muted or gimped or something anyway as Daev said.

I agree. I don't think those are the only two choices available.

- People that don't show respect to an Imm should be punished. It's Baer. What the hell can some mortal human do to her that he should be smack talking?

I agree. The immortals ,pretty much all of them, are smart, creative people. Silja probably should have been titled. But not something like that. Baer, from what I can tell, is a pretty smart cookie. Basically, my opinion is she's better, and certainly smarter than that.

What do you think would have been an appropriate title?

If not, then the title is a bit OOCish and you could have chosen wording that suits better for IC environment.

Just my two cents.

... why wouldn't it be?

As a non-native English speaker, I cannot immediately tell which words sound OOCish and which do not.

I think it's IC enough. Dictionary.com defines it as "an exceptionally boastful and talkative person."

I misunderstood it as an alternative term for cocksucker, derived from ####s.

Now I'm picturing Silja mouthing off and Miss Purity Baerinika shaking her spear at him and yelling "COCKSUCKER!!!"

That's all I see now... That's too funny. The tatt would tell kids to keep off the grass an pounce on them as well of course.

They needed a way to call him a sucker of the cocks without actually saying it, and Blowhard is an awesome cover up for that.


I like your style, imms.

That was clever.

You're welcome.

Baer asked for a title that covered something like "arrogant asshole that insults Baernika and then quits before she can lay the smackdown", and being the official imm of witty wordplay that I am, I came up with "Spineless Blowhard" to meet the need.

Blowhard is a word I often use, particularly in the context of "Dr. Blowhard", which I use to describe any physician who thinks he's a royal piece of #### who doesn't have to apologize for leaving you waiting in a paper gown for an hour, and thinks he is just too damned brilliant to listen to your simpleton concerns/conclusions about your own (or your child's) health.

So in that context, I don't specifically think sucker of cocks, but it certainly has that double entendre.

I -think- it has been around since medieval times.

it sounds like baerinika has no place being an IMM.

Alright, forgive the jaded opinion here, but some of us remember what things use to be like. A time when titles were even more snarky, embarrassing, and common. So I guess if you have nothing productive to say then probably you should shut the hell up.

What exactly constitutes a good imm anyway? Interact more, but don't pass out snarky titles? Do more, but throw our character's roleplay out because someone might get a title that they don't like? I'm just lost on what it is I'm supposed to value in these series of "Baer titled me cuz I'm an idiot" threads. If this char had gotten lippy with Scar and Scar had given the title, would it still be the same thread?

Sheesh.. really???

PLayers that treat CF purely from a PK power game standpoint maybe have their skewed views in terms of why did char X get this and not me or why did imm Y do this to me? It's a very small minority of players I think that would complain about any imm ever. And why people pick on Baer I don't know. Mergulla was awesome to interact with, so was Rayihn. I never messed with Baer though, cause she scares me IC.

Personally, I'd rather have a neg title than be legend of the battlefield #210532 anyway. If anything, more titles would be awesome, be they good or bad. :)

Ignore the haters Enlilth, and please get out there and spread the love.

When I first hear the term raybaer I thought of a carebear
but dual wielding canoe's one of them named kindness...

Man I wish I could draw this... :) Please don't spear me.

Sorry I have no clue what the real reason would be.

It's just like at any job, the sheer fact that someone is dating/married/child/parent/etc to someone else with higher ranking/authority, means people will view any rewards they received (earned or otherwise) as benefits of their relationship.

Honestly, even I felt it was maybe slightly fishy to begin with...she moved up quick enough, but what I have seen of her work & actions, the only real BENEFIT she's likely getting over us is that she has much quicker access to that experience and advice, while we have to wait 'til we get spotted :P

Now if Rayihn would ever get answer my post as to how to be a better Ray priest *pout*.

nt

There is no right or wrong reason for titling silja other than stating the obvious. It's a goodie IMM titling an evil loudmouth.

I think flaws should have been added on top of the title. Something like jin####o got

Spineless because Silja derove most of his successful from the advantage that is the human PK range and picking on soft targets at the low end of it.

Blowhard because... well if you exchanged more than 2 tells with Silja that part would be obvious. Especially if you beat him before the tells.

>Spineless because Silja derove most of his successful from
>the advantage that is the human PK range and picking on soft
>targets at the low end of it.

This half doesn't bother me. You're human base. That's part of what you get for it. I wouldn't rag on someone because OMG you're just hard to kill because storm shield paladin is like an armadillo with wrath, or point out that my thief would have killed their warrior a bunch if only they weren't duergar and looking at me all the time with their beady little duergar detect hidden eyes.

>Blowhard because... well if you exchanged more than 2 tells
>with Silja that part would be obvious. Especially if you beat
>him before the tells.

But yeah there's that.

I actually avoided fighting him after a while because it simply wasn't worth the grief. Even with him killing me multiple times as an applicant (pretty big disadvantage) and looting gnome-only items and quest reward items that are character specific, he whined like all hell when I took his daggers (after level 40) to the point that ignoring him was the only reasonable response...

Any time you tell another character something to the effect of, "You only won because of X, and X requires no skill" (in this case pincer) you are doing it wrong. If you feel like sending this kind of tell, stop, and re-think what you are saying.

So who's the player? Because this certainly sounds like a particular person. Except that person has already copped to playing a different Scion who was concurrent with Silja.

See Reksah's post.

You'd think it was strange that he gave himself a shout out in his goodbyes on the other site but...

As the person that, in the past few years, has spent the most time watching and uninducting/rejecting/not promoting his various characters, I would say that this title was meant to be embarrassing for Silja, yes, because it was entirely appropriate.

On a note unrelated to the title but still to the character/player,
I will add that it is an inconsiderate move to have two characters in a cabal with such a low limit. His second one was in for, I think, 4 days before I realized and told him he 3 days to make a choice, after which he deleted his second. Ideally, he wouldn't have gotten a second character in at all, but I cannot easily tell which players are playing which characters unless I observe their glaring personality defects in action.

I'm not sure I buy that titles like this look especially bad to newbies. If I'm a newbie and see that I'm like, "Awesome! The staff here actually punish bad behavior!"

nt

nt

If you ever killed him, you would agree with the title. I've not heard a melt down like that in years. After I killed him I never saw him again until I deleted long after. That may have nothing to do with me, but I did find it odd. This is all after he killed me a few times.

Related Aside #1: Sometimes, the reason Imms know who a player is is because we see a greater percentage of post-PK rants like that (or other very distinctive tell) than most players will. If you see a rant like the one described in Olum's post above, yeah, that's pretty much exactly one person.

Related Aside #2: On more than one occasion I witnessed a 15-20 minute rant like that directed not even at someone who had killed him, but at someone out of range who had killed/fought a cabalmate. Now that's dedication!

Look up the titles on the pbf of my character Nererial. They are none too flattering, and LOTS of people used them to try to mock me. But I figured they were kind of cool.

Forget what it was, but something like Moronic Emperor of Imbeciles. I could argue that that's harsh, given that what I actually did was mount a failed attempt at a coup for the Throne (as High Priest). Not something to be frowned on, but probably getting a bad title upon failing is quite appropriate under the circumstances.

The one where you were trying to overthrow her.

I remember Elhe hitting me up OOC wondering what he should do. On one hand, he thought you were awesome, great priest, etc. etc. On the other hand, you just sent him a note that confirmed IC what he had been hearing OOC and IC.

It was a funny situation IMHO.

That note was kind of a mechanical issue. I addressed it to "Shadow Lord WhatsHisName" and unfortunately that went to Ahtieli. Imho that shouldn't happen, but so be it.

Anyway, the Dread Lord shopped me anyway, from what I understand.

Anyway, trying to usurp a lich was never going to end well for a shaman, even if I'd succeeded. But it would have been fun.

Excerpt from the rules...

Characters created strictly to annoy others will be removed.

* If a staff member makes a decision regarding rules or gameplay (in person
or otherwise), you are expected to comply with it.

annnnnd...

Breaking any of these rules may result in loss of equipment, deaths, deletion,
and/or other consequences, at the discretion of the staff. If a term is in
all capital letters, it refers to a more detailed helpfile, e.g. 'help
roleplaying'. If you are in doubt as to the legality of an action, please
pray and ask first.

annnnndddd....

Mortals perceive divine entities at three levels of increasing influence:

Avatars (AVA): These are Immortal beings of lesser influence. They do not
yet fully control the power of one or more spheres, but are still each more
powerful than any mortal.

Immortals (IMM): Immortals are beings who wield the influence of the
spheres. Most have priests and other followers through which they seek
to influence the mortal planes more directly to further their philosophies
and goals. The most favored of these mortals are tattooed with the mark of
their patron deity. Immortals are far beyond the abilities of mortals, and
only the most foolish would even think to approach one with anything less
than awe and reverence. Immortals may take any form, or instead remain
unseen by mortal eyes.

Implementors (IMP): Implementors are the eldest and most influential
immortals, representing major forces even among the deities. Their power
is vast, and it is difficult for mortals to comprehend the nature of their
capabilities.

(Note: Approach all visible divine beings In Character unless instructed
otherwise. If you have an Out Of Character concern (rules, etc.), PRAY
for assistance.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

So this is what I get out of these things...
Unless it is in your role to be a douche, you should be "in awe"
of imms, since you are supposed to be IC when you speak to them
and in theory any mortal should view them as gods, because well
they are like you know... gods.. at least IC. but then if it's in
your role to be a douche you probably fall under that top bit of being made to purposely annoy people. The blowhard didn't appear to be made for this purpose, he just seemed to annoy people by nature.
Where was I? oh yeah, with everything else we go with imms kinda
having the last say with stuff. 'cause they er.. do. :)
We'll suggest my new family motto for this. "Suck it up and deal."

Wait you say... but this and that about this or that imm... so they should be fired from that high paying job they have working thier
collective asses off at Cf? Really man? Really?
As a personal opinion I dig raybear and nep, but rather than call the
trashtalkers retarded, I'll just say you don't know enough of the story to have a good backing to your argument. (okay so I summoned
the spirit of the ex-wife for that one. If I wanted X I'd say Y but I'm not gonna. I always hated that.)
<<*grumble* apparently the kids need my attention every 2 seconds so I am derailing my train of thought about that often.>>

Where was I again? Most of the anti-negative-title stuff seems to
be either about not 'creative/IC/etc..." or they are of the opinion that we are all supposed to be nice to the ####tards. Consequences are part of the game. It makes it better. As for creative differences, if you don't like it, suggest something.

Personally I think there should be a ton more, good and bad.
It would do a few things. Let people know that they are being
paid attention to far more often than they might believe, and
encourage and discourage certain kinds of behavior. again I
am interupted and forgot where I was... hehe. You get the idea.
Come on every one of us has deserved a crappy title with at least
one character. In my case maybe more, though probably more for
stupidity than assclownery. Let's go back to the family motto
"Suck it up and deal" and a dad saying... "It'll build character"
Funny this was all clear in my head when I started.
*rofl* sorry.

I have always thought Scions were the "cool" folks of CF.. the elites who are versed in RP and PK, which is like a prerequisite?... but here we have one stray who demonstrated many signs of noobery... what happened here???

Mine and the only other scion at the time, advice.

.

to send prays up to Baer insulting her and then log off like a chicken before she can spear your tongue out. Not cool at all.

Or at least take the beating like a man if you do it. Like the ranger who his tongue ripper out by Baer.

nt

So, I go up to my guild to log off.
You attack the guard and I yell that I don't want to fight.
You come upstairs and I Nova your face off.

Then you tell me that it wouldn't have happened if I didn't have wands.

Well, I only had six shields up, not even Mantle.

Then you tell me that Nova is too powerful.

Dude, you picked the fight. Man up and accept defeat instead of whining. It's unbecoming.

C'mon dude. Everybody knows nova is ####.

I've never seen so much trash talk from anyone.

nt

Everyone so likes to make obscure references that I never get! :(

Graatch waited like 10 hours or whatever for the hummingbird pendant equivalent (which was called an ivory unicorn pendant, if I remember correctly) waiting for a crash.

Crash happens, some DIKU Air/Offense guy logs on, flys to the mob, requests it, and quits out all before Graatch can get to it.

Graatch loses his #### and flips the #### out. OOC and IC.

It was about 10 years ago at least so I cut Graatch some slack on it personally.

nt

No, not that kind of log. Try dios

Graatch was the name this assassin (I think he was an assassin) in MASTER cabal. Like described in the other post, he waited for the MUD to crash, camping to get ivory unicorn pendant from the Drizzt Do'urden mob in what is now Northern Mountains in CF. The crash came, after Graatch had waited for 14 hours(IIRC). He could not connect immediately and thus a DIKU guy who was playing an air shifter logged on, flew to the pendant, got the pendant and flew off. After this, Graatch logged on and saw the pendant gone and proceeded to throw a fit over MASTER cabal channel. This wasn't really trash talk but rather a meltdown over CB not meant to grief or annoy anyone in particular. The meltdown was completely OOC, but OOC was more tolerated in those days. This all was before I started CF, but I have seen a log of the events.

Dioxides shows that last MASTER characters were played in year 2000. Graatch is not included, since the character is too old, probably played in the late 1990's or something.

Graatch is still around and posts as Alansmithee in Dio's these days. We don't have any problems with him and I don't consider him as a twit. He has also played several respectable characters after those days. Everyone still calls him Graatch after the character he had the meltdown as. The name just stuck and doesn't bear any ill will or disrespect towards him these days.

Silja enjoyed relative PK success. He's about at a point of deadliness that when his enemies talked about him, they should be talking about, if maybe not exactly how scary he is, at least how he's the most dangerous person to plan for in such and such group fight, or how their tactics need to plan for him. Not that his play was flawless, but mostly he gave a decent accounting of himself in fights and won more than he lost.

But in practice, from my birds-eye view, they mostly talked about what a whiner he was, or how he kept bitching at them for doing stuff exactly like the stuff he did, or some variant of commenting on how he just would not shut up.

And that's sad. I think if this character had actually been a mute all along, people would have lots of good things to say about him because I think he's a decent competitor.

Kill a hundred people and you're a badass, but lose once and complain for twenty minutes about how you got ganged and you're forever thought of as a whiner.

nt