Backstab is a very old skill, and despite its iconic status, it was always a little bland for both the thief and the victim. A few updates:

1) The 'suspicious' threshold has been loosened for PCs with unusually large numbers of hit points. Someone who has, say, 1400/2000 hp is less worried than someone with 700/1000. Edit: Fixed previous sentence.

2) More factors can come into play as far as success and failure. It's not quite the guarantee than it used to be, especially if your DEX is low. It's still a very high-percentage skill under most normal circumstances.

3) There is a small chance, which builds a little bit with level, of various 'special' successes which do more than the usual.

4) There is a small(er) chance that something goes quite wrong for the thief.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I rolled a lowbie thief and saw the special things happen reasonably often but having ranked a bit I have not seen a single 'special' success in over 200 backstabs. I thought it was supposed to increase in chance as you ranked?

-----Abernyte

Increasing level functions as designed: Small steady increase in the chance for positive 'special' events, no impact on negative 'special' events.

200 attempts, as an aside, is a statistical blip for low-probability events of this sort.


valguarnera@carrionfields.com

It now has a (small) chance to miss regardless of skill, and a small chance to apply a 'big hit' with special results. Many more variables can come into play here.

I think it's an overall gain for the skill in most situations. I also threw in more incentives for Mamlauks, and did a similar thresholding function that we did for Backstab.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Any maledictions accompanying a successful backstab?

Eg. fear, or crippling effects, or bleeding at high levels?

I like this change.. (Coincidentally, I was ranting a bit on #dangeroom about backstab needing to be beefed up just a couple of hours before this came in.. Like being godheard :p )

Anyway, any chance of getting the damage multiplier for backstabbing sleeping opponents back? I can't help but feel that the skill needs further boost.. It's just not feared anymore :p

With dual back stab a thing of the past the multiplier for back stab on a sleeping opponent should be resurrected.

Noone worries about it anymore. Most every back stab, unless I have them bound and gagged, result in c 'word or flee;get potion girdle;quaff teleport/recall. If it had a bit more punch it might be worth using. As it is you are often better off with knife and then trip.

-----Abernyte

>1) The 'suspicious' threshold has been loosened for PCs with
>unusually large numbers of hit points. Someone who has, say,
>1400/2000 hp is more worried than someone with 700/1000.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here correctly. The way I read it, you are saying it would be harder to backstab someone with 1400/2000 hp than 700/1000, but judging from the previous sentence, I would have expected the reverse. Clarification please?

Code is correct, my post is wrong.

The intent was what you'd expect-- paleo-Backstab was not terribly useful vs. someone with a pile of hit points, since it typically would only hit them once. Neo-Backstabis more lenient in possibly allowing you a second whack at a particularly tough foe.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

In two year's time we'll have another Imm-spiracy rumor going around about how a special flag that only Imms can place and see will allow endless backstabs.

Way to go, Valg.

Looks like a great change. Any chance of seeing similar openers like Charge, Ambush, or the damage-only version of Cleave get re-worked similarly? From my recollection Underhand already works something like this.

Why am I awake? Because it's tax-day, yo, and I do mine all gansta style.

Any chance of seeing similar openers like Charge, Ambush, or the damage-only version of Cleave get re-worked similarly?

I'm more apt to focus on skills obtained at a lower level in general, but I'm open to redesign suggestions via email. I don't necessarily think these skills need a lowered 'suspicious' threshold, however, since their respective classes rely less on the surprise first strike and have more melee staying power.

I'm generally happy with how most of the mentioned skills shake out balance-wise, but there's usually a way to make a skill more interesting without tweaking its overall balance much.

I wish I had a log of it, but Pico and I had an extended conversation when I was a heroimm about how the forums tend to be dominated by calls for predictability, but in practice people tend to migrate towards mechanics with some form of gamble involved. You may safely assume that I'm less fond of any skill that reliably produces only one result. Ambush is very interesting in that regard. Charge, less so.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

The Scion AP who could eat three backstabs for breakfast is more worried about a backstab than the normal joe warrior?

Now give Backstab to shamans, and give rot to Bedouins, and we've solved all the blandness problems in the game! Woo hoo!

Gate for AP's.