nepenthe | Fri 08-Sep-06 07:28 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
3430 posts
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#295, "RE: They *are* seperate issues"
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>It isn't at all like caterpillars and butterflies. If you are >saying every aborted child would grow up to be a violent >criminal so they and we are better off if they are aborted... >Well that is just plain stupid.
It's not a 1:1 correlation, obviously. If you think the two are completely unrelated, you're kidding yourself.
>A newborn child has nearly >unlimited possibilities. Even some of the most neglected and >uncared for children have grown up to be great people. Your >lot in life is not wholly dependant on who your parents are >and what their situation is like.
Not wholly, no. It's also an ass long way from wholly non-dependent.
If you force people who don't want or can't afford kids to have kids, you're going to get more violent criminals, both in absolute numbers (because the population increases) and as a percentage of the population. 100% of those kids aren't going to be criminals, but it's going to be a much higher rate than in the general population. Wishing that these issues would be completely separate doesn't cause reality to bend to your whim.
>Honestly, I could easily construe your statement, that since >old people nearly always die slow torturous deaths, people >should be euthanized at the age of 60. If a child that *may* >die such a death is better off dead, then an old person who >*will* die such a death is certainly better off dead.
They're capable of making a choice about it. In most cases, no one is legally compelled to care for old people either.
>And since I'm not willing to toss the whole issue of a fetus >to a child. Please explain to me how you can deteremine when >a child is a child. Does exiting the womb change the >fundamental nature of the fetus such that it then magically >becomes a child? If I take a ball out of a paper bag was it >something else when it was in the bag?
By that half-assed logic, we'll just take 8 week old fetuses out and let them fend for themselves. They're obviously the same thing as normal adults.
>If cognitive thought >is the requirement, well that doesn't happen till well after >birth, and there is almost no way to prove cognition without >speach, so we'll just wait till a child talks, but any time >before that we can kill it.
I realize you're trying to take an extreme opinion for shock value, but I actually don't have a problem with that, so long as the parents consent and reasonable attempts are made to make it quick.
>Sounds fine to me, before that >they're just animals. If you say it's "part of the woman's >body" so she should be able to do with it what she wants, well >that isn't true either. A fertalized egg is no more part of a >woman's body than sperm is. It might be *in* her body, but it >sure as hell doesn't have to be. Yes, a child cannot grow >outside a womb (currently) but that womb can be nearly >anyones, and it is really no different than the fact that >humans are born completely without the ability to survive on >their own, so that pushes the killing point sometime after >birth again.
If you want to set up a program where people can volunteer to host would-be aborted fetuses I don't have a problem with that.
>Feel free to ignore this last tirade, but I'd really like to >know how you can rationally equate killing unborn children and >killing violent criminals as non seperate issues. It >seriously boggles my mind.
There's some degree of causality there. That doesn't mean the issues are equivalent, but they're sure as hell related. A good analogy is being against fatal car crashes but being in favor of legalizing drinking and driving. It's not like someone dies everytime someone drives drunk, but are the two issues related? #### yes.
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Obligatory. Politics. Discuss. n/t
[View all] , Eskelian, Thu 31-Aug-06 02:30 AM
Thread locked on account of sprawl.,
Valguarnera,
13-Sep-06 09:12 AM, #123
This essey pretty much sums up my current world view.,
Odrirg,
03-Sep-06 01:27 AM, #16
RE: Vitriol:,
Valguarnera,
05-Sep-06 03:26 PM, #17
RE: Vitriol:,
DurNominator,
05-Sep-06 04:06 PM, #19
Wow... just wow....,
Tac,
05-Sep-06 03:57 PM, #18
RE: Wow... just wow....,
Valguarnera,
05-Sep-06 04:32 PM, #20
Heh...,
Tac,
05-Sep-06 04:37 PM, #21
This is a Fallacious argument.,
(NOT Pro),
06-Sep-06 06:25 PM, #30
RE: "Mexican invasion",
Valguarnera,
07-Sep-06 02:58 PM, #47
Why won't they legalize it?,
Tac,
07-Sep-06 03:02 PM, #48
My take:,
Valguarnera,
07-Sep-06 03:18 PM, #49
RE: Why won't they legalize it?,
nepenthe,
07-Sep-06 03:27 PM, #50
RE: Why won't they legalize it?,
Eskelian,
07-Sep-06 10:24 PM, #77
RE: Why won't they legalize it?,
Eskelian,
07-Sep-06 10:33 PM, #78
We'll probably have to kill them all. nt,
Aodh,
08-Sep-06 12:26 AM, #80
RE: Why won't they legalize it?,
Isildur,
07-Sep-06 03:41 PM, #52
You pointed out the danger.,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 04:32 PM, #55
RE: You pointed out the danger.,
nepenthe,
07-Sep-06 05:47 PM, #64
Uhm.. Geography.,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 06:28 PM, #71
Don't marginalize the harm of it however.,
Eskelian,
07-Sep-06 10:18 PM, #76
RE: Don't marginalize the harm of it however.,
Muuloc,
08-Sep-06 01:40 AM, #83
Quick note on that:,
Valguarnera,
08-Sep-06 08:55 AM, #84
RE: Quick note on that:,
Eskelian,
08-Sep-06 09:01 AM, #86
Whoops.,
Valguarnera,
08-Sep-06 09:38 AM, #89
According to Darwyn,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 10:16 AM, #94
Thats absurd.,
Eskelian,
08-Sep-06 08:55 AM, #85
RE: Don't marginalize the harm of it however.,
Isildur,
08-Sep-06 09:45 AM, #91
Completely rational.,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 10:17 AM, #95
3.4% of our GNP goes to the military.,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 10:13 AM, #93
Do you even know what a GNP is?,
Valguarnera,
08-Sep-06 12:43 PM, #102
Military R&D is 72B I think.,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 07:12 PM, #104
Eventually, we'll be able to kill everyone! ~,
Aodh,
08-Sep-06 09:18 PM, #107
RE: This is a Fallacious argument.,
Muuloc,
08-Sep-06 01:34 AM, #82
Why?,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 10:18 AM, #96
As a 17 year Veteran....,
(NOT Pro),
06-Sep-06 06:04 PM, #29
RE: As a 17 year Veteran....,
nepenthe,
06-Sep-06 11:07 PM, #34
RE: As a 17 year Veteran....,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 01:38 AM, #35
RE: As a 17 year Veteran....,
nepenthe,
07-Sep-06 08:53 AM, #37
It's worth noting that:,
Valguarnera,
07-Sep-06 11:04 AM, #40
RE: It's worth noting that:,
nepenthe,
07-Sep-06 01:28 PM, #41
Question:,
Tac,
07-Sep-06 02:02 PM, #42
To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 02:09 PM, #44
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
A2,
07-Sep-06 02:30 PM, #45
Who once said it needed to be in a bubble? Anyone?,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 04:35 PM, #56
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
Tac,
07-Sep-06 02:59 PM, #46
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
Isildur,
07-Sep-06 03:34 PM, #51
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
Tac,
07-Sep-06 03:58 PM, #53
The fair tax is a Great idea.,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 04:40 PM, #59
RE: The fair tax is a Great idea.,
Isildur,
07-Sep-06 04:58 PM, #62
Heh. nt,
Wilhath,
07-Sep-06 06:11 PM, #69
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
Isildur,
07-Sep-06 04:49 PM, #60
One dose of insanity....,
Tac,
07-Sep-06 05:49 PM, #65
30 Million Illegals in 10 years.,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 04:39 PM, #58
RE: 30 Million Illegals in 10 years.,
Isildur,
07-Sep-06 05:08 PM, #63
It grew.,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 08:06 PM, #72
I think we should stop ALL immigration,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 04:37 PM, #57
So can we deport you?,
Tac,
07-Sep-06 05:51 PM, #67
RE: I think we should stop ALL immigration,
Eskelian,
07-Sep-06 10:00 PM, #75
Where I think a lot of you misunderstand me is here....,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 10:09 AM, #92
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
Eskelian,
07-Sep-06 09:58 PM, #74
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
Eshval,
13-Sep-06 12:55 AM, #118
RE: To me this is the equivilant of saying.,
Valkenar,
13-Sep-06 08:39 AM, #120
It's worth noting also that I got seriously ####ed up o...,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 02:05 PM, #43
Wait till they slash your benefits. ~ (Blackbird),
Aodh,
07-Sep-06 06:26 PM, #70
They keep increasing mine.,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 10:19 AM, #97
A quote...,
Barduin,
07-Sep-06 04:02 PM, #54
Patriotism is hilarious,
Valkenar,
05-Sep-06 05:29 PM, #22
RE: This essey pretty much sums up my current world vie...,
nepenthe,
05-Sep-06 05:59 PM, #23
Losing would be allowing OUR government to become like ...,
TheLastMohican,
05-Sep-06 08:04 PM, #24
devil's advocate question for the peanut gallery. txt,
Isildur,
06-Sep-06 04:08 PM, #25
RE: devil's advocate question for the peanut gallery. t...,
Tac,
06-Sep-06 04:56 PM, #26
I wrote out this whole long thing that the forum ate...,
Wilhath,
06-Sep-06 05:36 PM, #28
RE: devil's advocate,
Valguarnera,
06-Sep-06 05:25 PM, #27
RE: devil's advocate,
(NOT Pro),
06-Sep-06 09:48 PM, #31
No offense Valg, but Pro will never learn.,
TheLastMohican,
06-Sep-06 10:36 PM, #32
Sure he will....,
Tac,
06-Sep-06 10:43 PM, #33
It is a bad topic for this board.,
(NOT Pro),
07-Sep-06 01:54 AM, #36
RE: It is a bad topic for this board.,
Isildur,
07-Sep-06 10:25 AM, #39
RE: It is a bad topic for this board.,
Valkenar,
07-Sep-06 04:53 PM, #61
LAUGH!,
(NOT Pro),
08-Sep-06 07:20 PM, #105
Seek counseling.,
Valguarnera,
07-Sep-06 05:50 PM, #66
*edit*,
Wilhath,
07-Sep-06 06:05 PM, #68
RE: devil's advocate,
Isildur,
07-Sep-06 10:20 AM, #38
RE: This essey pretty much sums up my current world vie...,
Muuloc,
08-Sep-06 01:30 AM, #81
Vague Topic,
Amaranthe,
31-Aug-06 03:39 PM, #3
RE: Vague Topic,
Grurk Muouk,
31-Aug-06 03:53 PM, #4
RE: Vague Topic,
nepenthe,
31-Aug-06 05:50 PM, #5
RE: Vague Topic,
Amaranthe,
31-Aug-06 06:52 PM, #6
RE: Vague Topic,
Eskelian,
31-Aug-06 08:08 PM, #8
RE: Vague Topic,
Isildur,
01-Sep-06 10:56 AM, #9
RE: Vague Topic,
Eskelian,
01-Sep-06 05:11 PM, #10
RE: Vague Topic,
Isildur,
01-Sep-06 11:54 PM, #11
RE: Vague Topic,
Eskelian,
07-Sep-06 09:50 PM, #73
RE: Vague Topic,
nepenthe,
07-Sep-06 11:04 PM, #79
Bingo. n/t,
Eskelian,
08-Sep-06 09:04 AM, #87
RE: Vague Topic,
Tac,
08-Sep-06 09:15 AM, #88
RE: Vague Topic,
nepenthe,
08-Sep-06 10:49 AM, #99
They *are* seperate issues,
Tac,
08-Sep-06 11:42 AM, #100
RE: They *are* seperate issues,
nepenthe,
08-Sep-06 07:28 PM #106
I gotta ask,
Minyar,
12-Sep-06 01:37 PM, #108
I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe's),
Tac,
12-Sep-06 02:43 PM, #109
RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'...,
nepenthe,
12-Sep-06 03:48 PM, #111
RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'...,
Tac,
12-Sep-06 04:30 PM, #112
RE: I've been meaning to respond to this.... (Nepenthe'...,
nepenthe,
12-Sep-06 05:41 PM, #113
Come on now Nep,
Minyar,
12-Sep-06 05:58 PM, #114
Except:,
Valguarnera,
12-Sep-06 08:59 PM, #115
Two words: Turing Test,
Tac,
12-Sep-06 09:19 PM, #116
RE: Two words: Turing Test,
Valguarnera,
12-Sep-06 11:37 PM, #117
RE: Two words: Turing Test,
Tac,
13-Sep-06 08:47 AM, #121
RE: Two words: Turing Test,
Valkenar,
13-Sep-06 09:05 AM, #122
RE: I gotta ask,
nepenthe,
12-Sep-06 03:22 PM, #110
The problem is Choice, Nepenthe,
wretchedmongrel,
13-Sep-06 02:43 AM, #119
RE: Vague Topic,
Isildur,
08-Sep-06 09:38 AM, #90
RE: Vague Topic,
nepenthe,
08-Sep-06 10:40 AM, #98
According to wikipedia....,
Tac,
08-Sep-06 11:46 AM, #101
RE: Vague Topic,
Isildur,
08-Sep-06 12:42 PM, #103
RE: Vague Topic,
Amaranthe,
02-Sep-06 11:20 AM, #12
RE: Vague Topic,
Isildur,
02-Sep-06 11:45 AM, #13
RE: Vague Topic,
Amaranthe,
02-Sep-06 02:45 PM, #14
RE: Vague Topic,
Eskelian,
31-Aug-06 08:07 PM, #7
From my blog eariler this month:,
Grurk Muouk,
31-Aug-06 08:17 AM, #1
RE: From my blog eariler this month:,
Isildur,
31-Aug-06 02:32 PM, #2
RE: From my blog eariler this month:,
Isildur,
02-Sep-06 04:15 PM, #15
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