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Navarone1984Tue 19-Oct-21 07:53 AM
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#74600, "I'm sleep deprived and getting ideas"


          

So let me just start this post by saying god bless the people still playing this game and sticking through these times. You are doing god's work my brothers and sisters.

I just wanted to post about my experiences coming back to the game, and trying to learn about PK. I should start by saying that I am not new to CF but I am certainly new to PK. Just to give you some perspective on my situation, you could literally count the number of PK's I've had on all my characters combined with one hand, and you wouldn't need all your fingers. I don't mind telling you that I am BAD at PK. Whether it's from lack of knowledge or talent I haven't quite figured out yet, but anyway.

As said, I came back to the game after about 4 years wanting to learn how to PK. Let me just say that the playerbase (PB) is really awesome and the culture has changed a lot since I started playing over ten years ago. I never ran into someone that tried to grief me, I never had someone take and gear that they didn't need (no one took my academy leathers) and everyone has been super helpful as far as sharing knowledge. Those are the good things.

The bad?

Obviously the count sucks. It's between 10 and 15 most times and around 20 at it's peak. Which seem odd to me when I see all the obvious effort that has been placed into making the game more newbie friendly. I mean, between the in game stuff and the FAQs on this site and Dio's, anyone that wants to put in the effort shouldn't lack for basic knowledge on how to play your class, areas, etc. However, there is an problem with the playerbase that I have seen and again this is just my perspective as someone that is new to this aspect of the game. The knowledge gap between the vets and the newbies is ridiculous. It seriously feels, as a newbie, that you are playing a different game. Between the skill level, area knowledge and the gear a very real problem emerges. Newbies stop learning because they get beat down so fast and hard that they have no idea what is happening. Let me explain it like this : You can't learn anything if you get killed in two or three rounds by some guy with hero-level gear AND a skill level gained through hours and hours of gameplay, right?(Or the thing you learn is to not engage that guy again and just run away when you see him next. A bad lesson and one that is a detriment to the game IMO) However, if the fight lasts for 10 or 15 rounds, you can start to see what works and what doesn't. (All of this is predicated on the newbie actually giving a crap about getting better and not wanting the game handed to him/her) I know this may seem like a small thing, but getting beaten down over and over is fine as long as you learn something about the encounter and as long as you learned something then you just got better as the game.

Now, this game should incentivize interaction right? So how do you incentivize pk interaction. How do you make it to where Vets want to play (the game needs vets) and new players that want to get better and can handle getting beat down as long as they learned something?(the game need new players too)? Well..I have an idea.

1. We have to bring back edge points for PK. Gotta do it guys. I am sure that the staff has been hearing people complain about this since it was implemented, but just hear me out. I really don't need to explain the appeal of edges to anyone here, I think. But I just want to highlight that EPs for PK not only incentivizes PK interaction (good for the game and appealing to everyone especially vets) but makes you enjoy your character more (again good for the game and especially everyone). Now was it does do is incentivize something very very bad for the game. Multikilling WITHOUT LEARNING. I want to make sure that that is stressed. Getting killed is fine as long as you learn something. The Vets are going to kill as many people as possible to get those sweet sweet edge points as well as clout, imm recognition, and so on which leaves them that much more powerful. This in turn means that the gap between newbie and vet grows (no inherently bad), but what do the newbies get out of getting beaten down constantly? Well it should be experience and getting a little better with each encounter, right. Well not if the fights go to fast which brings me to my second thing.

2. Leveled gear. I don't if this is even do-able or if the effort to do it would even be worth it, but I think that we something like this to balance the HUGE skill level gap between the Vets and the newbies. Basically you can't wear gear that is above your pk range. So, as it is now, if you are a vet and you know the ins and outs of this game and you can get some nice high-level gear in the lowbie ranks. This again leads to newbies not learning anything. Vets don't need gear to win fights, right? Good gear only makes thing easier for them. You dont have to chase as much, you dont have account for as much stuff with a 2-3 round beatdown than with a 15 round chess/checkers match, right? Put a vet and a newbie in academy leathers and the Vet is going to win barring some RNG anomaly and the Vet gets his/her edge points and the newbie gets knowledge. This also keeps people from being carried by good gear which is a bad thing for the game as well. Also, it's less of a morale hit if/when you get looted, because the gear in that you can wear should, at lowbie ranks, be relatively easy to get, you know? You want that bawling hero gear? Rank up to hero levels.

3. Get rid of con loss for pk. Don't understand why this is a thing. I'll tell you this. For me? Nothing makes me want to log off more than getting beatdown and seeing you con reduced. It's punitive for what? Not being good at the game? It may have made since at a different time in CF history but now it just seems out of place and wrong. And it really only affects newbies.

The End Game.
So what do I think this will do? At low ranks, you'll see Vets in sh^t gear with a lot of edges beating down newbie with sh*t gear. but the newbies will be staying logged in more and getting better much faster because of the nature of the battles. Minimal looting. Mid ranks? same as before with a little bit more looting. Hero ranks? The same as it is now but with a lot more edges for everyone. Most importantly, you have everyone, win or loss, getting something real out of the fight.

  

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Reply I agree, but don't, Valkenar, 12-Nov-21 09:35 PM, #30
Reply Imms should pay attention to this. Especially no 2., vorian, 31-Oct-21 02:24 PM, #5
Reply How to git gud, jalbrin, 19-Oct-21 01:15 PM, #3
Reply How to git CF better, vorian, 31-Oct-21 02:46 PM, #6
Reply Meh, Destuvius, 31-Oct-21 03:19 PM, #7
     Reply RE: Meh, vorian, 31-Oct-21 08:27 PM, #8
          Reply Logical fallacy, Destuvius, 01-Nov-21 10:31 AM, #9
               Reply shifting attention away from the real subject , vorian, 01-Nov-21 06:46 PM, #10
                    Reply You not liking an answer doesnt mean its not an answer, Destuvius, 02-Nov-21 04:27 PM, #11
                         Reply I have to chime in here., Navarone1984, 02-Nov-21 06:58 PM, #12
                              Reply RE: I have to chime in here., Destuvius, 04-Nov-21 10:05 AM, #13
                                   Reply The question remains: why people stop playing CF?, vorian, 05-Nov-21 06:49 PM, #16
                                        Reply RE: The question remains: why people stop playing CF?, Ishuli, 06-Nov-21 09:51 AM, #17
                                             Reply Just wondering., Navarone1984, 06-Nov-21 01:01 PM, #18
                                                  Reply My take on this, Destuvius, 06-Nov-21 01:48 PM, #19
                                                  Reply I agree about this game being niche., Navarone1984, 06-Nov-21 02:30 PM, #22
                                                  Reply Everyone else grew up and started adulting regularly. n..., Lhydia, 06-Nov-21 02:06 PM, #20
                                                       Reply What?, Navarone1984, 06-Nov-21 02:16 PM, #21
                                                       Reply Two or three for sure, thanks. n/t, Lhydia, 06-Nov-21 02:31 PM, #23
                                                            Reply You don't actually have anything constructive to say do..., Navarone1984, 06-Nov-21 02:57 PM, #24
                                                                 Reply no i will never play again n/t, Lhydia, 06-Nov-21 03:22 PM, #25
                                                                      Reply You should nt, Navarone1984, 06-Nov-21 04:05 PM, #26
                                                                           Reply maybe once the bugs on the bug board are gone n/t, Lhydia, 06-Nov-21 06:03 PM, #28
                                                       Reply Pretty much., Ishuli, 06-Nov-21 04:26 PM, #27
                                                            Reply Just publicity is not enough, vorian, 12-Nov-21 03:44 PM, #29
Reply RE: How to git gud, vorian, 04-Nov-21 03:11 PM, #14
     Reply RE: How to git gud, jalbrin, 05-Nov-21 06:17 AM, #15
Reply Stopped reading at pk edge points helps newbies. n/t, Lhydia, 19-Oct-21 10:14 AM, #1
     Reply You should have kept reading. There's more stuff in the..., Navarone1984, 19-Oct-21 10:21 AM, #2
          Reply RE: You should have kept reading. There's more stuff in..., Jagre (Anonymous), 21-Oct-21 01:49 PM, #4

ValkenarFri 12-Nov-21 09:35 PM
Member since 04th Mar 2003
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#74631, "I agree, but don't"
In response to Reply #0


          

I'm also terrible. I first played in 1997 or something and I never could PK my way out of a paper bag.

And it's definitely true that sometimes I think of coming back and remember that I'd be playing only with veterans and I would probably literally never get a kill. So that's where I agree.

But I don't think there's anything you can change about the game to make that not true. The only thing that will change that is an influx of new players who are as bad as me.

Sadly it's a catch-22. People don't play because there aren't enough players.

I think CF is a unique enough game to be appealing to a sufficient number of people (it probably needs a playerbase of like 600-1000?), but we've had trouble reaching out. There's a Facebook page but only old people use facebook. We need some twitch, youtube and tiktok streamers, not stuff that appeals to other 40 years olds.

  

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vorianSun 31-Oct-21 02:24 PM
Member since 23rd Oct 2009
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#74605, "Imms should pay attention to this. Especially no 2."
In response to Reply #0


          

I hope they will one day... this will certainly bring me back playing CF.

Few years ago I also exposed the leveled gear problem (asking why the system is in place for wands but not for gear) using the exact same arguments you gave in your point number 2. Imms answers was "we won't change it because we like the swing of it."

I suppose they like to keep the game unbalanced, especially if it's at their advantage, even if "the swing of it" means death of CF on the long run. Or maybe they are simply blind? I just don't understand how they do not see that keeping newbies willing to play is the key to player base growth. If newbies (or less skilled players) don't have enough fun for the huge amount of time they need to invest to be able to compete with more experimented players at PK, they will get tired of being beaten down and simply play something else.

That's is exactly what happened with me. I played CF many years, learned how to easily flee, luckily PK someone sometimes, but got tired of being smashed down in 2 rounds by vets with overpower gear. I'm totally fine with the advantages their skills and area knowledge gives them but adding access to overpower gear on top of that is just something I'm not ready to accept anymore. I now prefer to play chess online where at least, I'm able to learn new strategies and win some games because I compete with somebody who is not starting with two queens on his side when I have only one.

I remembered having fun playing CF when PB was regularly around 50 because I had less experimented players I could sometime kill. But now? with the last 15-20 players, mostly vets who can smash me in 2-3 rounds, I don't expect I'll get much fun from a CF session and prefer to spend my time playing something where I know I'll have some.

Your two other ideas, on edge points and con loss, are interesting but I dont think they will as much impact on the player base numbers than a more balanced game coming from leveled gear system.


Anyway... very good post!

  

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jalbrinTue 19-Oct-21 01:15 PM
Member since 20th Apr 2009
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#74603, "How to git gud"
In response to Reply #0


          

So first of all, I do sympathise with the spirit of what you wrote. Like yourself, I am complete balls at PK. I'd need at least a few hands to count my total, but that's only because I'm going on 20 years of being on and off connected to the game. Like you, I tend to take long breaks, for various reasons, but even then I stay connected through reading the forums and, more recently, the discord. Through pure intellectual osmosis I've picked up a lot of information, but when it comes to the nitty gritty my characters tend to be the ones breaking ankles because the other guy's foot got lodged too far up my rear end.

None of that is going to change by changing the very fabric of the game, though. You can say it would make it more friendly for newbies, and yes, largely due to the outreach in the past couple years we have been getting more, but if you take away what the game is then you're likely to lose the interest of a lot of the people who have stuck with it. So that 20-30 max count goes a lot lower, but...at least a couple of newbs stuck around? I dunno man, it's a hard one but I don't think it's the answer. A few years back they even took into consideration the idea of giving edge points to people getting railed. It's not a lot, and it's policed via code pretty heavily, but it IS there. And how it is now is as good as it's going to get for the same reason they took broader level PK related edge points out. People will minmax that #### all the live long day, whether it's sitting as a level 18 human warrior until you kill your way to 50 pks or deliberately allowing yourself to be killed as recommended by the detailed chart handed out to your favourite ooc group that shows how much lost con is worth the edge points received.

Anyway, title says I'm going to give my thoughts on how to git gud, so here we go. First step is training your subconscious and muscle memory to type where every ten seconds or so. Second is learning how to run away. If you managed to run away, you didn't die. Third is probably the hardest for some people. You need to roll a tankish character that you don't have an emotional connection to other then it bring a vehicle to help you become better at PK. Before you even choose a name, you resign yourself to con dieing and make yourself believe that it's going to be fun. Get full looted? Outfit at the guild and find another fight. You'll learn a hell of a lot more that way then almost anything else.

My personal recommendations are fire giant sword Imperial, defense/utility shifter, and above all village defender assassin. The latter has lag, good damage, debuffs, healing of both hp and various debuffs, sees everything outside of camo (mostly), hide and sneak, assassination, and whilst martial trance plus resistance isn't ABS if you've been stalking the guy you trance on then I wouldn't be surprised if it came really close. All of that without one prep needed. If you just want to go out there and fight people with the least amount of fuss, that's the ticket. You'll learn a lot and if your next character IS able to use magic, it'll be like someone taking handcuffs off of you.

  

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vorianSun 31-Oct-21 02:46 PM
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#74606, "How to git CF better"
In response to Reply #3


          

Thank you for your advices on pk, they make very good sense.

You almost got me willing to give another shot at CF but I won't for now because of the only point you didn't comment about Navarone's post: the leveled gear system.

Being able to use Hero gear at low levels gives an huge advantage to vets (explain me why it's in place for wands, talisman and scrolls but not gear?) and it adds an unnecessary superior challenge to the CF learning curve.

It creates an unbalance in CF that benefits only to the those who don't need an extra advantage to enjoy pk: vets and cheaters.


  

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DestuviusSun 31-Oct-21 03:19 PM
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#74607, "Meh"
In response to Reply #6


          

In your proposed system, it makes it impossible for a new player to be gifted a set of better gear thereby giving them a shot to survive against more experienced played.

The reason its in place for wands talismans and scrolls is that spell level has a direct impact on the damage and duration of things, as well as their ability to be successful.

  

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vorianSun 31-Oct-21 08:19 PM
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#74608, "RE: Meh"
In response to Reply #7
Edited on Sun 31-Oct-21 08:27 PM

          

>In your proposed system, it makes it impossible for a new
>player to be gifted a set of better gear thereby giving them a
>shot to survive against more experienced played.

Right... and wrong: you could still give the best gear available at their rank.

Bottom line is that it is definetely the vets and the cheatears who benefit the more often from the absence of a leveled gear system.

  

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DestuviusMon 01-Nov-21 10:31 AM
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#74609, "Logical fallacy"
In response to Reply #8


          

If your argument is that new players get throttled by experienced players only because of a gear disparity then you are just wrong.

If your argument is that experienced players can snowball faster with good gear, then sure, I can get behind that. But that can happen at any point regardless of there being an imaginary level requirement hooked onto gear.

Bottom line is that learning the mud and learning pk timing are pretty much the only things that separate new players from veteran players. If we remove one of those variables, the other one will still cause a gap and lead to the same end result: new players being worse than experienced ones.

  

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vorianMon 01-Nov-21 06:46 PM
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#74610, "shifting attention away from the real subject "
In response to Reply #9


          

>If your argument is that new players get throttled by
>experienced players only because of a gear disparity then you
>are just wrong.

I havent said anything like that so why do you bring this up?


>If your argument is that experienced players can snowball
>faster with good gear, then sure, I can get behind that. But
>that can happen at any point regardless of there being an
>imaginary level requirement hooked onto gear.

Out of subject again. The discussion is about the différence it makes in fights having access to L51 gear at L15 when the opponent of same level only knows how to get at best L20 gear


>Bottom line is that learning the mud and learning pk timing
>are pretty much the only things that separate new players from
>veteran players. If we remove one of those variables, the
>other one will still cause a gap and lead to the same end
>result: new players being worse than experienced ones.

Again out of subject. We are not talking of equalizing the chances between newbies and vêts but simply reducing the gap between them.

I would be interested to hear what you have to say about the real subject of the discussion so please, if you need it, read Navarone opening post and mine again and try to stay on the subject. Thank you.

  

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DestuviusTue 02-Nov-21 04:27 PM
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#74611, "You not liking an answer doesnt mean its not an answer"
In response to Reply #10


          

You are saying putting a cap on the level of usable gear will make a difference. I am saying you are wrong in 99% of situations.

You want to reduce the gap with an artificial barrier to a perceived success that is rooted in a variable that is the smallest component in the pie. It has been proven time and time again that the skill of a player is the most influential part of success .

By player skill in the above part I mean things that come with experience/veteran status which is pk timing, skills possessed by their opponent at assorted levels, area knowledge for chasing, escaping or gathering gear.

Something that can be seen in pretty much every game ever is that people who have put in more time to learn the nuances are more successful than people who pick it up on their first day.

  

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Navarone1984Tue 02-Nov-21 06:55 PM
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#74612, "I have to chime in here."
In response to Reply #11
Edited on Tue 02-Nov-21 06:58 PM

          

Just to be clear. My post was not about winning battles. It was about not getting steamrolled so hard that you actually learn something and get better. The idea I was talking about still ends with vets killing newbies because, like you said, tactics is the most important thing, which I agree with.

I just have to ask you. If I, an unskilled pk'er, and you, I assume a skilled pk'er both had level 15 whatevers. You are saying that if I had lvl 51 gear on and you had lvl 15 gear on then you still think you would win based on your tactics? I am not trying to put words in your mouth so I am not being fastidious here. If that is your point then doesn't that contradict your point that giving gear to a newbie will help them survive?

And maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean by 'timing' but how can you learn timing when the fight lasts two to three rounds?

  

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DestuviusThu 04-Nov-21 10:05 AM
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#74613, "RE: I have to chime in here."
In response to Reply #12


          

I think that in your hypothetical situation, the guy who is more experienced will have a better chance of actually killing the other guy, regardless of gear. Winning a fight and landing the PK are very different things. A new player with a set of high quality gear is drastically harder to kill which in turn allows them to learn more. They are not nearly as deadly but the enhanced survivability allows them many options.

Generally if a fight is only lasting two or three rounds its not even hero gear on the table for the victor. At level 15 pretty much every class can amass a dmg roll set high enough from just the item search that is available to everyone to pk people in their bracket. Typically the bigger impact with high end gear is that it allows you to have both dmg roll AND hp not having to choose one or the other like you would typically do with lower level gear.

  

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vorianFri 05-Nov-21 06:49 PM
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#74616, "The question remains: why people stop playing CF?"
In response to Reply #13


          

>I think that in your hypothetical situation, the guy who is
>more experienced will have a better chance of actually killing
>the other guy, regardless of gear. Winning a fight and
>landing the PK are very different things.

How is winning a fight and landing the PK is different?


>Generally if a fight is only lasting two or three rounds its
>not even hero gear on the table for the victor. At level 15
>pretty much every class can amass a dmg roll set high enough
>from just the item search that is available to everyone to pk
>people in their bracket. Typically the bigger impact with
>high end gear is that it allows you to have both dmg roll AND
>hp not having to choose one or the other like you would
>typically do with lower level gear.

This makes sense but the question remain: why people are stopping playing CF? I think the unbalance brought by the absence of leveled gear system and the complexity of the game are part of the answer here.

PK is an important part of CF and I think when players are almost never able to land a killing blow, they get frustrated, or bored, at the game. This frustration and/or boredom are experimented not only by newbies but also by less skilled players. As they do not feel the satisfaction of landing a PK from time to time, they probably get bored of just being able not to die. By the time they get at this level, they have realized the complexity of the game (mechanics, gear location, preps, etc.) and decide the time needed to be able to compete with vets is just not worthed for the fun they have at CF and prefer to go play something else.

I think a solution to help playerbase numbers to go up is to reduce the level of complexity of the game (I mainly think of reducing the amount of preps available) and instating a leveled gear system in order to increase the influence of RNG in PK fights.

You have to understand that the complexity of the game and the absence of leveled gear system favours mainly vets and cheaters in PK fights.

If you reduce the complexity (this could be temporary) of the game and make a leveled gear system, you basically increase the chances for less skilled players to win a fight from time to time and experiment enough satisfaction to keep them playing CF.

I think taking away these two advantages from vets and cheaters is, considering PB numbers lately, a solution worth trying because if newbies and less skilled players don't play anymore, on the long run CF is condemned to die.



  

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IshuliSat 06-Nov-21 09:51 AM
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#74617, "RE: The question remains: why people stop playing CF?"
In response to Reply #16


          

We had more players back when things were more unbalanced and more unfair and when there was more cheating.

So... Not sure if what you *think* the reason is, is *actually* the reason. It may be the reason for YOU, or for a few others, but if the goal is numbers, seems the opposite of your policy might pay off more.

  

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Navarone1984Sat 06-Nov-21 01:01 PM
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#74618, "Just wondering."
In response to Reply #17


          




So first, you think that if you implemented the first two suggestions from the original post (the third is really non-issue as long as the other two work), it would result in less people playing?

*To any vets reading this that don't currently have a character* If you heard that you got edge points for pk, are you really telling me that you wouldn't immediately start thinking of what kind of character you would want to roll? You wouldn't consider playing again if could have a character with a lot more edges than you can get now? Really?

*Hey new people, as few as there are* If you heard that you could roll a character and, at level 20, not get steamrolled over and over again by some vet in hero gear that has twice your HP and double or triple your hit/dam roll, would you think that learning pk was more or less of a daunting task?

I know that I could be wrong on this, but I really do not understand how gear does not drastically affect the outcome of a fight.

Second, I mean why do YOU think that the numbers are what they are? Why do people that used to gladly devote hours and hours to their characters don't anymore? Why do you think that new player retention is so low.

I don't see how it's the culture in the game because everyone that I've played with, both allies and enemies, are super helpful, classy and fun to play with. (that's just my experience)

It's not lack of Imm interactions. Again, this is my experience, but since I've been back, I have not had any problems with talking with the imms that I have been wanting to, and the interactions have all been great.

The game is larger, and with richer content that it ever has been, so I really don't know.

  

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DestuviusSat 06-Nov-21 01:48 PM
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#74619, "My take on this"
In response to Reply #18


          

I know that I struggle to do anything that involves playing the game as a mortal because of the lack of a pause feature for when my kids need me for something. Its also the fact that I get almost no enjoyment out of the game sub lvl 45 and the effort required to get to that point where it begins to be interesting/fun to me doesn't justify the return.

Another thing that I believe is worth noting is that the game itself is a pretty niche one. Other games allow for a more immediate direct line to the PvP rush while others allow you to pause and take a break to take care of things you need to do without fear of loss.

  

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Navarone1984Sat 06-Nov-21 02:30 PM
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#74622, "I agree about this game being niche."
In response to Reply #19


          

You have to put in a lot but get a lot out it too. Modern games are built with accessibility in mind so they are easier and have a quicker payoff, right? I don't know how to convince people to try and play this type of game. I think getting vets back that still love it and keeping the newbies that do come in is paramount (obviously).

As far as not having a pause button? Yeah, it's not ideal. Sometimes you just have go deal with stuff. If that's the reason you don't play, you should reconsider and roll up a character just to see if you can get into it. I mean, sometimes you might have to man up and eat a death cause you were AFK. This is Carrion Fields, bro. Embrace the pain.

  

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LhydiaSat 06-Nov-21 02:06 PM
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#74620, "Everyone else grew up and started adulting regularly. n..."
In response to Reply #18


          

gr

  

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Navarone1984Sat 06-Nov-21 02:16 PM
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#74621, "What?"
In response to Reply #20


          

Are you saying that people dont play the game because they are so busy with standard issue adult life? So being adult means you have no free time? Everyone that plays this game is an adult. Or did I just completely miss what you are trying to say?

  

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LhydiaSat 06-Nov-21 02:31 PM
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#74623, "Two or three for sure, thanks. n/t"
In response to Reply #21


          

gr

  

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Navarone1984Sat 06-Nov-21 02:57 PM
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#74624, "You don't actually have anything constructive to say do..."
In response to Reply #23


          

I'm going to go out on limb here and say that you dont currently play this game. What would bring you back? You seem to have plenty of spare time. Why dont you roll up a character instead of
####-posting on a forum for a game you dont even play? Then you might actually get some insight into what can be improved. What do you think?

  

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LhydiaSat 06-Nov-21 03:22 PM
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#74625, "no i will never play again n/t"
In response to Reply #24


          

gr

  

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Navarone1984Sat 06-Nov-21 04:05 PM
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#74626, "You should nt"
In response to Reply #25


          

nt

  

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LhydiaSat 06-Nov-21 06:03 PM
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#74628, "maybe once the bugs on the bug board are gone n/t"
In response to Reply #26


          

gr

  

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IshuliSat 06-Nov-21 04:26 PM
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#74627, "Pretty much."
In response to Reply #20


          

*That's* what I think the player number variation is really from, not what the post proposes it is.

Which is why I think the answer isn't this stuff, but just publicity and grabbing newer players!

  

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vorianFri 12-Nov-21 03:44 PM
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#74630, "Just publicity is not enough"
In response to Reply #27


          

>*That's* what I think the player number variation is really
>from, not what the post proposes it is.

I agree; the aging of the playerbase is certainly an important factor in the lowering curve of PB numbers.


>Which is why I think the answer isn't this stuff, but just
>publicity and grabbing newer players!


I have to disagree here. Just publicity won't do it because part of the problem is new player retention... and this stuff is addressing exactly this. It might not solve everything but it will surely help.

Betting on publicity has been CF staff strategy for the past few years and it effectively brought new players but the problem is that they don't stay. I challenge any Immortal to demonstrate that reducing the capacity to steamroll would not be helpful for new (and medium skilled) players retention.

  

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vorianThu 04-Nov-21 03:11 PM
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#74614, "RE: How to git gud"
In response to Reply #3


          

>You need to roll a tankish character that you don't
>have an emotional connection to other then it bring a vehicle
>to help you become better at PK.

>My personal recommendations are fire giant sword Imperial,
>defense/utility shifter, and above all village defender assassin.


Hi

I was under the impression that with their low dex, giants are not very tankish. I know using swords helps but does it make a giant tankish?

I wonder why you recommend Fire sword Imperial over let's say Storm sword Maran? Is it because of the sword specs combined with Imperial Training/Defense ?

  

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jalbrinFri 05-Nov-21 06:04 AM
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#74615, "RE: How to git gud"
In response to Reply #14
Edited on Fri 05-Nov-21 06:17 AM

          

If you're wanting to get better at PK, you need to be in a lot of fights. Storm sword isn't bad but evil means never having to say you're sorry.

As for dodginess high Dex dodge and evade are going to be better in some situations, but high hp, 25 str for parry with florintine, 25 str giant sized bash, 8 hit flurries, and giant resist bring plenty of positives to the table. There are now and always have been successful giant warriors, and unlike elf warriors they're not made out of glass.

And while it won't be lovey hand holding like in Fortress, Team Empire is usually willing to help each other out with arrogant or grumpy RP in exchange for some gold or a favour. And yeah, Blade powers are pretty good even if you don't get War Master. Codex is str and damroll added, always nice. Shove is very helpful in fights where you're outnumbered or fighting people with charmed mobs like necros or druids. (Not conjurer's though.) Imperial training speaks for itself.

Imperial fire giant, sword/axe. Axe for pincering people with bash protection, and edged overhead isn't bad. Go simple on the legacies. Avalanche for obvious reasons, then something tried and tested like Cry, Soul, Chilling, or Gates.

If you die a lot that's fine. Just keep going, try to learn, and make sure you con die. A build like this, you can be in outfit gear with regear weapons and if you keep searching for fights and run up on folks bash/bash/flurry will net you kills on plenty of unprepped/surprised people.

  

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LhydiaTue 19-Oct-21 10:14 AM
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#74601, "Stopped reading at pk edge points helps newbies. n/t"
In response to Reply #0


          

gr

  

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Navarone1984Tue 19-Oct-21 10:21 AM
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#74602, "You should have kept reading. There's more stuff in the..."
In response to Reply #1


          

Cool comment though, bro.

  

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Jagre (Anonymous)Thu 21-Oct-21 01:49 PM
Charter member
#74604, "RE: You should have kept reading. There's more stuff in..."
In response to Reply #2


          

Play something that actually lives for 10-15 rounds as your first character and you *can* get that learning experience you talk about.

That's exactly what happened with me as Jagre. I'm sure if I was anything besides a black sanc shaman giant, I would never have been able to acquire any skill at PK at all.

  

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