I think the problem with old 1 rnd wrath was mostly in the midranks, where it did too much damage too fast. Changing it to 2 rnds seems to have been too harsh especially for shield dedicants, which look rather bland and unpopular now. So I'd propose the following tweaks, which I think would make the skill better balanced for both the paladin (more useful/tactical) and her enemies (less damage potential):

Wrath:

- 1 rnd lag when communed at L51 (i.e. we won't have any unempowered wrath monkeys running around, as they commune at -1 level)
- If/when the victim gets the cursed 'wrath' affect, they get less damage from any subsequent wraths as "already suffering from the wrath of a god", say maybe ~66...75% of normal at L51, and with a smaller reduction below L51 (so that 2 rnd wrath doesn't become useless after the 'wrath' affect)

Possible additional options:

1. Also require the skill to be at 100% for 1 rnd lag
2. Maybe tweak the overall (normal) wrath damage down slightly
3. Or even make it 1 rnd at any level (at 100%), but also always apply the 'already wrathed' damage reduction fully (I'd likely include point 2 above, if this was done)

Wrath damage is meh.

My weird issue with most spell/supplication damage is the lack of MIN damage amounts. Its odd to see a wrath maim, or to see a pillar of lightning massacre. I would rather see wrath never do less then MANGLE and pillar never do less then *** DEVASTATES *** regardless of damage mitigation on the target as an example.



OK the thread hijack part!

I don't think there should be 4 paladin dedications.

Also should start my own thread on this! Sorry

I play these two and it boils down to this.
Monk 1 skill pony...
2 handed 1 skill pony...

Respond and templars defense have TOO big of a IF statement involved with them being useful. Opponent must have weapon otherwise its useless!!!


MY assumption from logs and complaints is that:
Battadins are a 1 trick pony as well...and shield spec just shield bash. AKA 1 trick pony...

My 2 cents is make a tank spec and dps spec. Monk + N Shield then Two handed + polearm/staff.

There isn't enough unique skills per spec. There isn't enough player base to justify the 4 specs.



20+ years ago when I first started playing here my first character was a Paladin. They were a #### pvp class back then and I think they still are(specially in my hands .

However Monk has been great as PVE, Only reason I've been able to relearn the mud after a 10 year or more break...

It's a great starting out or starting back up class, but needs something to make it more interesting for pvp and wrath isn't the issue.

Make that an edge.

So you could have full juice two round wrath, or you could take the edge for 1 round wrath with reduced damage after curse effect.

I wouldn't care about old wrath, if shield deds were to go/change.

It was just too much on even slightly competent shield deds.

I think all paladins are cancer, but there has to be at least one thing people who are bad at pk can stand their ground with.

It still throws out crazy damage, still can be used to open, and curse/track the wicked are amazing side effects. It seems like a 2 round skill to me.

I don't think the changes you're describing are necessary, and I think that maybe they'd even return wrath to being overpowered, especially because it would make it BETTER than it currently is for paladins who are only using it to get the curse affect applied.

From what I saw with Borlan, shield paladins are very viable still, they're just super defensive... so yes, less popular in a meta that favors burst damage/kill sealing, but not underpowered.

Pick any 2 other virtues and they become a shade of deadly too I suspect. I think shield dedis are fine.

>I don't think the changes you're describing are necessary, and
>I think that maybe they'd even return wrath to being
>overpowered, especially because it would make it BETTER than
>it currently is for paladins who are only using it to get the
>curse affect applied.

Yes, it would make wrath better than it is now, but worse than old wrath, and in my mind the correct balance lies somewhere between those two extremes. Which with this could be achieved quite easily by just finding a suitable damage reduction for the already wrathed while also reducing its normal damage range somewhat.

I don't feel like it adds anything and only risks influencing OOC perceptions of your character in game.

Restriction one doesn't mean much.

Other than that it's not bad.

Not sure how I'd code it but I'd make it so that you can't wrath someone who is being lagged by someone else for much damage.

Nt