I'm a huge fan of orcs, but I think that they need a bit
of help in terms of power.

My impression is that in the design of every unique skill,
the coders "held back" a bit too much.

I'm low level: but here are my examples:

cheap-shot, orcs don't land this much at all. I have
bashed and tripped so much, and this skill has yet to
go up. I understand that someone didn't want orcs to
use this much.. But where was the line drawn? My
opinion is that it is too ineffective. It _is_ gettin
better with level, but still grazes when it rarely
lands.

Forced March: The concept of this skill is alright, but,
-oh my god it hurts-! This is something that I'm afraid
will kill me if I'm gonna use it in pk. This is also
something I don't do while leveling, because of the -con
thing. I don't like this skill at all.

Exsanguinate: alright, interesting, but I don't think
any orc can be pleased with the 22 tick counter between
making bloody skins. The effect of 1 of my blood sacks
is negligable. I guess I need to sit around harvesting
sacs or something, because this is again, not a skill I
like much.


Other things that I don't like about orcs: When we die, we're in the ass end of nowhere, and walking to our corpse takes a while =)

I don't think we can join cabals? I don't see any evidence that cabal powers were incorporated into our default skills. I don't think our village can be raided either.

orcs berserkers really have nothing to put them "above and beyond" the damage of normal hitters. Warriors get berserk & warcry! The only real berserkers (I know of) come out of .

I'm gonna respond to this post with some ideas.

I've never heroed an orc (or got to 50) so I am arguing from a position of some inexperience re them, though I've fought a hell of a lot of them.

However, Gnosh, you have not yet passed lvl 25 with an orc from what I can see, so it is a little soon to be arguing about them being underpowered. Come back and put your case after you've racked up 250 hours on one and you will probably be able to support your case more with examples.

>I'm a huge fan of orcs, but I think that they need a bit
>of help in terms of power.
>
>My impression is that in the design of every unique skill,
>the coders "held back" a bit too much.
>
>I'm low level: but here are my examples:
>
>cheap-shot, orcs don't land this much at all.

That's largely because they have bash.

> I have
>bashed and tripped so much, and this skill has yet to
>go up. I understand that someone didn't want orcs to
>use this much.. But where was the line drawn? My
>opinion is that it is too ineffective.

It isn't something you are supposed to rely on. Consider it a bash that is slightly nastier than a warrior bash, because it has the rare potential to cheapshot.

> It _is_ gettin
>better with level, but still grazes when it rarely
>lands.
>

The damage is pretty irrelevant for an orc. It is that extra one round of lag that is the important thing. Your orc will be dishing out damage fast and taking it fast in the melee attacks. The cheapshot damage is unlikely to swing a fight, but the lag might well.

>Forced March: The concept of this skill is alright, but,
>-oh my god it hurts-! This is something that I'm afraid
>will kill me if I'm gonna use it in pk. This is also
>something I don't do while leveling, because of the -con
>thing. I don't like this skill at all.
>

I think this skill is well thought through. Should an orc forced-march himself everywhere? No. Only forced march when the pain is worth the gain. eg if you are trying to get out of the village before the guys who made you recall there arrive. You can always berserk at the cost of around 10% moves to gain back your lost hp, and still be left with some moves.

Forced march should not be considered a pathfinding substitute. More like an emergency rescue skill. Use it when you need it, let yourself nearly die using forced march, if it gets you clear of the danger. Chase that guy using forced march, if you don't need the hp to kill him.

>Exsanguinate: alright, interesting, but I don't think
>any orc can be pleased with the 22 tick counter between
>making bloody skins. The effect of 1 of my blood sacks
>is negligable. I guess I need to sit around harvesting
>sacs or something, because this is again, not a skill I
>like much.
>

Actually, you need to make it more a way of life. Just pop by an elf every so often and whack one. There are a lot of elves around outside of the elven areas. Don't take time out to harvest a lot of skins. Do it on a regular basis as you go.

>
>Other things that I don't like about orcs: When we die, we're
>in the ass end of nowhere, and walking to our corpse takes a
>while =)
>

Double-edged sword. The orc village has major advantages as a recall point.

>I don't think we can join cabals? I don't see any evidence
>that cabal powers were incorporated into our default skills.
>I don't think our village can be raided either.
>

Orcs clan is a sort of cabal. Orcs have banners that affect the entire group of orcs etc. That is sort of like a cabal power. Orcs in battle would be too powerful imho.

>orcs berserkers really have nothing to put them "above and
>beyond" the damage of normal hitters. Warriors get berserk &
>warcry! The only real berserkers (I know of) come out of
>.
>

Berserker isn't a very good name for orcs, but they do have things to put them above and beyond your normal hitter. That huge amount of hp gives them advantages over warriors in some ways (eg against spells, or against people who are using weapons that bypass resistances). Savage feeding is good too.

>I'm gonna respond to this post with some ideas.
>
>

I don't think orcs should make good tanks though, really. I think it fits in well with orcs playing style that they can survive against a mob, but not necessarily long enough to kill it.

Personally, I think Exsanguinate, Forced March and some of the other skills mentioned in the original post are among the most handy utility deals orcs have. I've certainly seen the more successful orcs make good use of both.

Re: your other post: I'm in agreement that whatever we do with berserkers, they're about offense more than defense.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

The more I think about it, I am thinking that exsanguinate was meant as a gruesome form of (find spring). I believe that the elf-blood recovery thing was an after thought. Developining the exsanguinate thing even further, I'd like to suggest that orcs can do blood rituals.

By slathering themselves with different types of blood, the orcs can evoke effects.

Example of effects:
1. a swarm of blood flies:
The flies bite everyone in the vicinity of the orcs. They are attracted by the blood slathered on the orcs. They cause people to come out of hiding, (twitching, scratching, itching, etc).

2. gagging stench
when someone talks or yells, they have a chance of taking a hit to moralle. Basically, they inhale the awful smell of the orc.

3. toughened skin.
Giant blood might burn and turn orc skin to tough leather, kind of like bark skin.

I get the impression that orcs are the best meat shields on Carrion Fields. I level with people, and tank fairly effectively.. But I'm taking blows like a spring-breaker. That's okay. It actually works pretty well =P.

What about introducing some troll blood into the CF orc bloodlines? I think an enhanced recovery would make orcs unique, and it'd be a fair addition. This fits in with orc combat style, which, is to flee at 50%, recover(by exsanguinate), and come back healed.

In my humble opinion, Exsanguinate alone is not enough to make this tactic work.