Current warcry skill is not convenient because you could yell it only in combat
though from roleplaying point of view it would be very natural to shout it out
just before a combat begins. Also often warcry is not used purely because a person
has other more important things to while in combat ( bash for example ).
Thus roleplaying aspect of it is hindered by game mechanics.


I offer to redesign warcry in order to solve these problems.

Purpose:
To allow a person yell warcry in the middle of combat as well as just before a combat
begins ( out of combat ) but to make it unusable when the person is not going to fight
in order to avoid out-of-combat-yelling abuse.
Also change it so a warcry would become a true _combat_ skill.
( useful in combat and useless out of combat ).

How it can be done:

Shorten duration of a warcry affect to 1 hour ( or even 0 hours )
but make it so it doesn't wear off while a person is fighting.
Basically an affect remains on a person through a whole combat and
wears off shorty after it is ended. Also this short duration would
let a person to shout his warcry shortly before the combat for preparation
and roleplaying purposes as well as use tactical moves ( flee/return )
without losing warcry affects.

Increase mana cost to 50, for example, in order to avoid out of combat abuse
( like shouting it every hour ), also making it a skill which you use
in important situations rather than shouting it on every little mob while
gaining experience.


Also the following changes in warcry command functionality should be done:

Simplest version: leave the syntax of command as it is but remove any lag from the command
when it used out of combat. Thus allowing to shout your warcry just before
your opening combat move ( pincer, for example) without sacrificing your tactic.
Drawback: This allows spam-practice. ( though mana is still used ).
Notice: I don't see any problem with balance here as it is still less powerful compared
with the anient version of warcry which you could maintain almost permanently.

More tricky version:
Split it into two commands:
setwarcry ( no lag ) - set a text for your warcry.
warcry ( 1 round lag ) - shout out your warcry. Can be used in/out of combat.
warcry <command> ( >=1 round lag ) - works similair to "dash" skill. Basically it shouts out
your warcry and immedately executes the <command>. The lag of this combined command
is 1 round when <command> itself has no lag ( non-combat skill, "where" for example ) or 1 round lag
or it is determined by <command>'s lag itself when it is longer than 1 round.

PS. Warcry legacy could be tweaked accordingly.

Would be that everyone in the area should hear it. I think people should yell louder to pep themselves up than they should yell when they're attacked or when people read scrolls at them.

Some people wake up every day thinking the world is going to make sense. How fun would that be anyway?

What if you had some way of initiating combat with a warcry? Either an alternate syntax that uses the same skill such as "battlecry <target>", since right now warcry X makes you scream X. Or a change to warcry so you type setwarcry <message> and then warcry <foe> to initiate later?

This would seem like a possible compromise.

How about making it a no lag skill on both parties once they initiate combat. Like yelling when attacked. Its automatic. THey should do the same with warcry for warriors, and have the code check for it to see if they are already affected by warcry, if so, then no warcry. If you are not affected already you yell it out upon initiation of combat.

A nice tweak would be to have it an areawide echo, not sure if it already is.

I suppose it could be made so that if you get attacked by a lagging combat move, bash trip legsweep, then you dont yell the warcry. The person who initiated the attack then gets the warcry off as soon as he bashes you or whatever.

How about making it a no lag skill on both parties once they initiate combat. Like yelling when attacked. Its automatic. THey should do the same with warcry for warriors, and have the code check for it to see if they are already affected by warcry, if so, then no warcry. If you are not affected already you yell it out upon initiation of combat.

A nice tweak would be to have it an areawide echo, not sure if it already is.

I suppose it could be made so that if you get attacked by a lagging combat move, bash trip legsweep, then you dont yell the warcry. The person who initiated the attack then gets the warcry off as soon as he bashes you or whatever.

One, this would make cry of thunder vastly overpowered in that it would be available once every fight, I'm not sure how you propose it be tweaked accordingly such that it is still balanced.

Secondly, it robs warriors of some long lasting spell saves. For example, let's say I put up my warcry and a necromancer sleeps me. Since I'm not fighting, it wears off, and I lose -12 saves vs. spell while he maledicts the hell out of me.

Finally, I believe warcry takes mana. If you are going to be using warcry all the time, the mana costs would have to be lowered accordingly.

I don't really remember why warcry was changed from being able to yell it anytime to only during combat, but whatever the reason was, I've gotten used to it, and I'm sure it is still valid.

If anything I'd like to see berserk changed. At low-mid ranks berserk is used for healing after a fight rather than fighting better during a fight. I'd have to say 60% of the time when you are ranking, warriors berserk, then go right to sleep to heal up.

I completely agree with your point on Berserk (and your stance on Warcry) Berserk is the poor warriors heal, and when you say at low ranks.. I see -heroes- still using it as a form of 'field heal'.

What would be cool if if both Warcry and Berserk could be used as a form of way to initiate combat.
And possibly even a morale boost on warcry, considering in Sun Tzu's world, the warcry is a vital point of raising the troops morale right before a major strife.

so 'warcry target' and you initiate combat screaming and launching into the strike (possibly even only give morale boosts on an initated warcry attack)

>One, this would make cry of thunder vastly overpowered in
>that it would be available once every fight, I'm not sure how
>you propose it be tweaked accordingly such that it is still
>balanced.

Because you still are affected for 0-1 hours after you flee
from combat, you can't use cry of thunder immediately.
( Right now it is not 1-2 but 6-7 ticks if I'm not mistaken ).
I don't see many situations where you could attack, cry of thunder,
then run around for 1-2 ticks and return with another cry.
Your opponent simply may not let you to do so.
However if it will be an issue, it is always possible to fix it
with separate affect for 'cry of thunder'.


>Secondly, it robs warriors of some long lasting spell saves.

True. Though from roleplaying point of view these long lasting
saves were invalid. It is a warcry after all, not bless.
Warcry it is what inspires you in combat, and bless is
what inspires you out of combat.

Moreover if necromancer puts you to sleep it is very likely
you haven't shout it yet ( because now you can do it only in combat )
so you don't have these save anyway
Or you had these saves from your previous combat which is not
very natural and thus perhaps is not good.
With what I proposed you can yell your warcry in order to bring
yourself in combat stance when you enter into an area with a summoner,
thus gaining helpful saves. Basically you gain something in this
aspect and you lose something in another aspect ( they wear off faster
when you are put to sleep ). Overall I don't think it would ruin the balance.

>For example, let's say I put up my warcry and a necromancer
>sleeps me. Since I'm not fighting, it wears off, and I lose
>-12 saves vs. spell while he maledicts the hell out of me.


>Finally, I believe warcry takes mana. If you are going to be
>using warcry all the time, the mana costs would have to be
>lowered accordingly.

You are going to use it in serious combats, not for every
mob in Shadar Logoth. I don't think you would ever have
so many pk fights per 5 minutes that you couldn't afford
50(30,70) mana for warcry.
But this mana cost is somewhat needed to avoid warcry-spam abuse.
Should it cost 0 mana, you will just maintain it permanently
by shouting it every hour ( within my design ).
Perhaps there are other solutions, I just proposed relatively simply mine.

>I don't really remember why warcry was changed from being able
>to yell it anytime to only during combat, but whatever the
>reason was, I've gotten used to it, and I'm sure it is still
>valid.

It was done when "text" was added to warcry skill.
I believe it would be ugly to hear those warcries in random
situations ( in galadon guilds for example ).
Thus immortals changed it so it could be only used in combat.

>If anything I'd like to see berserk changed. At low-mid ranks
>berserk is used for healing after a fight rather than fighting
>better during a fight. I'd have to say 60% of the time when
>you are ranking, warriors berserk, then go right to sleep to
>heal up.

>Warcry it is what inspires you in combat, and bless is
>what inspires you out of combat.
>

I've always thought of real life warcries as something more along the lines of demoralizing &/or striking fear into your enemy more than providing inspiration, but point well taken. Also, warcries historically seem to me like rallying cries that have been more intended to inspire groups rather than lone individuals. I guess to me, warcry doesn't need to be more realistic, but I can see where it isn't.

I personally would consider changes along these lines :

Option A) Better saves on it, only usuable during pk (or optionally, also when fighting mobs who are ranked higher than level 51 or significantly more higher level then the person fighting them like lets say 10 levels higher). Likewise, warcry should improve morale if it doesn't already. In this manner, you use it when you need it most rather than shouting it because you have a free command to do so.

Option B) Make it callable like it is now, but also allow it to be called for a while after a pk. This way, if you flee or your opponent flees, you can call it while still in the 'thick of things'.

Option C) Make it callable when anyone who has previously killed you or you previously killed them is in the area or within your scan list.

Option D) Shout it automatically when you or your pk foe gets to 50% health, whichever comes first.

Just some options, on my warrior types when I see a necro coming I tend to remove my weapon, attack a nearby mob and call it so that I have it up prior to getting slept. Honestly that doesn't seem to make much sense to me at least.