Do these work together and stack?

Does wise recovery help against disease and poison?

What else does wisdom help with as far as saves and resists?

>Do these work together and stack?

Yes, at least in the situations in which each is effective.

>Does wise recovery help against disease and poison?

No.

>What else does wisdom help with as far as saves and resists?

Wisdom is useful in making most saving throws, except those that are constitution based (all poison/disease and a few other toughness-ish things.)

It still seems to me that dwarves get the short end of the stick here.

Aside from carrying hyge amounts of plus con gear, what can they do to off set the loss of their greatest attribute?

Train con. Die less. Be a cabal leader.

Why not just make the 1/3 con loss a counter toward death and let characters keep the gains and perks of high con?

It has arguments both ways.
Yes, it would be nice to always save/heal with 25 con or whatever they had it at with out regard for having died x amount of times.
But it also makes sense that dying takes its toll on you physically and that after dying 40 times you would not be as naturally hearty as someone who never had.

Another perk of high con is the potentially high number of deaths you can take without ever having to train con. If you start with 23 that is 60 deaths you can take w/o trains, which is a lot I would say. Con gear is extremely easy, so walking around with 25 con is easy if you want to gear that way. Having that kind of longevity is a little bonus, and maybe allows you a little more risk taking since deaths are far less of a problem for a dwarf than say an elf.

I would say dwarves having the ability to always have 25 con is the advantage, but to use it they have to gear for it. Just like an arial gears for dex and fire giants for strength. Dwarves have other nice features too I'd say.

Elves don't get more stupid after every death or lose their quickstrike.

Arials don't dodge more poorly.

Dwarves have great con. For a while. But when that starts to fall during the natural course of game play, their benefits start to decline too.

It's not like every other race isn't affected by the same problem. All races loose con. If you play a dwarf just to have 25 con and have a nice healing rate then gear for con. Like everything in a balanced game you have a choice and if you go for con you will have to sacrifice something else.

Every other race has something else going for it stat wise. High Dex, Str, Int or wis.

And all the High dex races can take Wis healer and have a sort of 20 or better con.

The high wisdom races have a 22 or better.

Orcs get Grit and have higher strength.

Giants will have higher strength and damage resist.

And a dwarf with a ton of HP after a while spends his time sleeping off damage he's not good at dodging or the best at parrying or other wise blocking.

He's going to get bone shattered from blows he can't avoid too.

I don't like the argument that as you get older the body breaks down IRL. I'm nearly 40 and have lost some RL con over the years.

I think it would be a possitive impact on the game if con was an used as a system to determine over all deaths you could suffer but you regenerate/gain hp/resist etc based on highest trained con or highest buffed con which ever is greater.

Dwarves are underpowered Warriors. Storms do better with swords, bash, polearms. Arials... well Arials are just nuts. Buff dwarves. And invokers.

nt

We have to overhaul the entire death system, and come up with a witty new comment for Death after he already made one when infinite XP holes were closed?

Where's the logic in that?

Dwarf stat advantage is 25 racial max con. That's it. The benefit of keeping it that high is a higher max HP.

Beyond that, just because it's a quirk of that stat that the dwarf loses his 'greatest prime stat' does not mean either:

A: he loses the HP regen. Big deal, so does every character in the game. The fact that he has slightly better HP regen at 25 does not automatically make this an issue special for dwarves.

B: Their trains that go into con are somehow more valuable than they are for another character.

C: The con stat is the dwarf's greatest and only advantage. Uh, I'd say at this point their resists, the legacy choices (to go with their good align) the potential to be a paladin that racially never has to be as formal as all of their other peers in terms of personality, forgecrafting (for those players who choose to learn to take advantage of it to improve their favorite gear pieces), resistance to magic attack types/disease and their detection of hidden passages are all cumulatively much more important to consider than 25 current CON eroding through the course of normal gameplay.

Don't use this argument as a wedge for 'dwarves are underpowered warriors'. You'll get busted over the head for even trying that weak argument.

If you are that worried about dwarves being homogenous relative to other races, they really only need a small tweak. A brilliant tweak that wouldn't make them OP would either be a legacy (with a dwarf bonus) that converts a percentage of current max HP to damroll (which still wouldn't obfuscate the use of Chilling or make +HP more appealing than damroll) or create the above legacy as a dwarf-only racial edge.

Dwarves have at least two other legacies to pick that not only address this problem but synergize with their combat style: Whispers of the Great Siege and Renewal of Spring.

Bard Repertoire Clarifications:
http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=23735&mesg_id=23735&page=

This one ===> A: he loses the HP regen. Big deal, so does every character in the game.

And because you wrote that, it tells me you didn't read my reasoning.

Let's not get into the rest of your argument which in part seemed to support mine.

I don't think this is even an interesting question to be arguing about and I'm shocked to see this thread still going.

Just my opinion.

Why doesn't this intrest you? It seems like a no brainer to me. A change like this would have a possitive affect on all characters and it would remove a series of negatives in the game.

It would make dwarves, something they aren't now, and that something wouldn't be over powered.

It just seems to me like this would make the fun stick bigger all the way around, with dwarves getting a bit more fun perhaps than most.