Hoping Daevryn and the other big warrior guys will weigh in on this build idea...

Duergar imperial warrior, dagger/pole, avalanche/enigma.

Cut up person, switch to pole for cutoff/bash, if things go badly q return.

Downside: need more weight for bash, want less weight for concealed/dodge.

Talk amongst yourselves.

I think decent paladins and druids might eat you alive. Not a lot to stop invoker or transmuter either.

This hasn't seemed to be true for the better / gangier people with builds of this kind, but I'm pretty sure it'd be true for me playing it.

That said, I think it'd eat melee characters who aren't very good alive, and probably stack up decently against any melee character. It'd be a fairly hard character to kill.

I'm not sure if this should go here or under the other thread, or anywhere, but:

Is Mercy of the Typhoon working the way it should these days, and if so, what's it supposed to do?
Has anyone ever taken Renewal of Spring - and does it stack with the bonus already inherent in being a leader?
What are the least chosen legacies and can you maybe speculate on why you think?
How does Gates work these days with light/metal/stone/dragon armor use skills? I seem to recall Valg posting way back when that Gates could hit a maximum (if you geared solely for the legacy) of maybe a perma-shield. Is that still the case, or does it also play into these new skills?
In One with Shadows, '...were only truly mastered by those
who were as clever as they were strong." - Does this mean that it is preferable to be smart AND strong (Maybe Human, dwarf?), or smarter than you are strong (Elves, arial, etc.)?

>Is Mercy of the Typhoon working the way it should these days,
>and if so, what's it supposed to do?

Yup. It does two things when someone flees from you: you immediately start beating on any allies of the fleer that are present, and your damroll sees a temporary boost. I believe this includes if the escape comes via word of recall or the like.

>Has anyone ever taken Renewal of Spring - and does it stack
>with the bonus already inherent in being a leader?

People have taken it. None of its functions are similar to the benefits of being a leader, so the question of stacking doesn't really apply.

>What are the least chosen legacies and can you maybe speculate
>on why you think?

I don't have the current stats in front of me; for the most part, legacies come in and out of vogue.

The aforementioned Renewal of Spring is typically rare, as is Vanguard's Desire. Outcry of Steel, too. All of these are reasonably niche -- good for the right player/character, but will probably never be mainstream choices, and I'm pretty much okay with that.

>How does Gates work these days with light/metal/stone/dragon
>armor use skills? I seem to recall Valg posting way back when
>that Gates could hit a maximum (if you geared solely for the
>legacy) of maybe a perma-shield. Is that still the case, or
>does it also play into these new skills?

As far as I know it doesn't interplay with those skills. I think at this point we're more likely to consider adding another armor legacy that is big into those skills someday (maybe... warriors already have a lot of customization options so they're never high on the list in a 'need' sense for new changes, but sometimes they get them anyways because we have cool ideas or whatever) rather than retrofit Gates.

>In One with Shadows, '...were only truly mastered by those
>who were as clever as they were strong." - Does this mean that
>it is preferable to be smart AND strong (Maybe Human, dwarf?),
>or smarter than you are strong (Elves, arial, etc.)?

Mostly it means that wisdom = good for the legacy. It's a sliding scale but I probably wouldn't pick it on a character with less than 20 wis.

Autumn, Striking, Soul, and Cry are currently the most popular.

The game currently has only 29 level 44 + warriors, so there's about 15 legacies that have zero takes right now. Mercy, Place, Crashing, Flow, Renweal, all on that list.

Dagger is the most popular spec right now.

Hand is the least popular.

There will be no white flag above my door. - Dido

Stones taught me to fly
Love taught me to cry
So come on courage
Teach me to be shy
Cause it's not hard to fall - Damien Rice

What doesn't kill you makes a fighter, footsteps even lighter - Kelly Clarkso

vd

>>Has anyone ever taken Renewal of Spring - and does it stack
>>with the bonus already inherent in being a leader?
>
>People have taken it. None of its functions are similar to
>the benefits of being a leader, so the question of stacking
>doesn't really apply.

I think the common misconception is that it either allows you to age slower or lose con slower (as per old leaders, not sure how leaders are these days)

>>How does Gates work these days with light/metal/stone/dragon
>>armor use skills? I seem to recall Valg posting way back
>when
>>that Gates could hit a maximum (if you geared solely for the
>>legacy) of maybe a perma-shield. Is that still the case, or
>>does it also play into these new skills?
>
>As far as I know it doesn't interplay with those skills. I
>think at this point we're more likely to consider adding
>another armor legacy that is big into those skills someday
> maybe... warriors already have a lot of customization options
>so they're never high on the list in a 'need' sense for new
>changes, but sometimes they get them anyways because we have
>cool ideas or whatever) rather than retrofit Gates.
>
>>In One with Shadows, '...were only truly mastered by those
>>who were as clever as they were strong." - Does this mean
>that
>>it is preferable to be smart AND strong (Maybe Human,
>dwarf?),
>>or smarter than you are strong (Elves, arial, etc.)?
>
>Mostly it means that wisdom = good for the legacy. It's a
>sliding scale but I probably wouldn't pick it on a character
>with less than 20 wis.


Thanks for the info.

...seems to be a flat 5 con and to my limited observation, you heal as if you have full con (and save against things that would check your con).

The above could be complete misinfo, but hey, thought I'd throw it out there.

He got to watch me die to the Hulking giant a boatload more times.

Of course, if Kasty wasn't too busy raping me with Kharghurln, he could have given me a con-quest and Renewal wouldn't have been necessary. I mean #### Kasty, I gave you back your weapon for Christ's sakes!!!!

You know I love you Kasty.

Renewal is definitely niche and I personally am glad it's a legacy choice.

I'd take something other than the bash legacy. Like, maybe the drive legacy.

But in thinking of straight kill sealing avalanche seemed the stronger choice. Like, landslide + cutoff looks good on paper, but no one has ever landed 300 kills with it the way BASH has done for so many. I admit the utilitarian value of landslide is higher, and that it is more versatile, but I *think* that between enigma and dagger you have enough utility to see you through. BASH/cutoff seems a strong kill sealer on an opponent suffering from dagger maladicts.

I entertained this idea also. Except mine was elf dagger/sword or dagger/axe or dagger/mace (dagger something that can lag with initial hit) STSF/avalanche...thought it may be interesting.

First, why not landslide/greeting?

Probably because it's redundant. I can't think of many situations I'd rather landslide than avalanche where the victim doesn't also have word of recall. Thereby the effective of landslide/cutoff is greatly diminished.

Secondly, I thought of doing the elf stsf w/ avalanche - I think the downfall is that bash (even avalanche bash) is based upon weight, and elves just aren't going to be able to do carry enough. Also, an elf relies more on dodge than does a duerg (my idea.) I'm not sure I'd want to sacrifice dodge for the increased weight.

All that being said, I'm curious to see how it might work out! So if you want to give that one a whirl, I'm curious to see how well avalanche elf can bash!

n/t

Out of 500 kills, how many used bash as a critical factor?

Typically he'd use crushing blow, after he went imperial offense and threw down his daggers. Though, I did see him bash some people down. As odd as that sounds.

How about people you can't bash? Which is...a lot of people.

So as an imperial you've got:

Maran: Mostly warrior, paladin, assassin, say... that's what... 90% of the cabal? All can be bashed.

Outlander: A lot of ranger, warrior, then mages/priests. 50% bashable?

Rager: 100% bashable.

Scion: 50% bashable.

Against anything bashable, I'd prefer bash over landslide.

I admit the build is weak against invoker, transmuter, and a decent paladin or druid. In those cases I think you make use of your enigma legacy and GTFO.

We're talking about a character that will seal kills that are easy regularly, and will stack up well against any melee based class. The kill sealing ability comes at the expense of not having much to do against a non melee character.

Mind you, I'm not DISAGREEING. I AM saying that at the end of 300 hours that your going to have more PKs as avalanche than as landslide. And if you disagree with that I'm genuinely interested in hearing why?

Thanks!

>I AM saying that at the end of
>300 hours that your going to have more PKs as avalanche than
>as landslide. And if you disagree with that I'm genuinely
>interested in hearing why?

That's probably true.

I guess I personally gravitate more towards builds that I think can kill tough opponents than the kind of builds that will let me kill the Bocas* of the world 30 times for sure. It feels harder / more worthy of respect to me to kill a really tough opponent once than a crappy one a large number of times.

*No offense, Boca. I have no idea if/what you play now or if you've become tough.

I guess maybe I'm thinking that you have SOME chance against the afformentioned classes. You are not any better off sealing kills on them than you would be with landslide, if we are talking about truly skilled people. I'm no ace, but that landslide/cutoff trick has NEVER worked to kill any of my characters.

I guess I'm thinking hey, I killed Llorenz and damn near got Ravon on the virtues of an avalanche bash. Sometimes you just get lucky. I think a dagger spec is never totally outgunned in the hands of a skilled player, and if you were interested in whacking someone specific you could use enigma to gain an edge... is this thinking wrong?

As an aside, I've played a ton of shaman, paladin, druid and trixy warriors. I've had a lot of characters that come out around 100 pks in 200/300 hours depending on luck. Things that stacked up well against whatever was thrown at them, but ultimately didn't have finishing power. I just kind of feel like trying something (someday) that can just dish out the bloodshed.

What would work, in your mind, as a "better" 2nd legacy to avalanche?

Hour past midnight or landslide would be 2 solid choices imho.

>> I guess maybe I'm thinking that you have SOME chance against the afformentioned classes. You are not any better off sealing kills on them than you would be with landslide, if we are talking about truly skilled people. I'm no ace, but that landslide/cutoff trick has NEVER worked to kill any of my characters.

Both give their own venue of killing even skilled foes. With avalanche, you should have a decent change to kill them if you manage to catch them without bash protection.

With landslide you will have the flee/hurl throat/wield polearm/drive tactic which should render you a bunch of kills against even strong players if you time it correctly (wait for them to do a 2 round skill, then you can bust your moves before they get the next command through). Pick whatever fits your style best.. But if you go landslide, I space between heartbeets better so that you can punish people when they go for their return wands..