I really want to try one of the rarely used legacies, but I'm afraid of just ruining my character. Can you comment on any of these legacies as to whether or not they're much better than they appear, or if they've been tweaked in recent times?

Renewal of the Spring
Vanguards Desire
Mercy of the Typhoon
Forsaken Thoughts
Fluid Deceptions
Space Between Heartbeats

I've searched many characters that had each of these, but none really raved about how great they were.

Thanks for any input.

What I noticed with hour past midnight is increase in damage output, landing more hits, and better parrying. Also, it looked like skills like disarm and offhand worked more consistently. Is this the case?

Or, if we had two human warriors going at with nothing but the same exotic weapon, one with the legacy and one without, would the one with HPM noticeably win?

The helpfile doesn't mention any specific stats. Is this legacy influenced by stats such as int or str?

Thanks.

>What I noticed with hour past midnight is increase in damage
>output, landing more hits, and better parrying. Also, it
>looked like skills like disarm and offhand worked more
>consistently. Is this the case?

I think so.

>Or, if we had two human warriors going at with nothing but the
>same exotic weapon, one with the legacy and one without, would
>the one with HPM noticeably win?

I'd assume so.

>The helpfile doesn't mention any specific stats. Is this
>legacy influenced by stats such as int or str?

I don't think so.

Does Trapping have an affect on H2H? I know hands weigh something by removing all / dropping all and still having a weight, but would H2H damage increase withe Trapping legacy?

No.

I've always wanted to try a warrior with fluid deceptions/space between heartbeats.

That said, I had fluid deceptions and flow of shadows with Carijisdun. I was more than pleased. Knowing a LOT more about warriors, I'd be willing to make a similar combo with fluid in the mix. Consider that the auto-feint feature will null the touch of invokers (which can be bad if they actually touch you) and the double feint can be useful against a lot of other classes.

>Renewal of the Spring

This is something of a niche legacy; for various reasons, it can be very good if you're worried about age death or expect to run your character into low con. It has some nice benefits even if these things aren't the case, but, for characters where these things aren't a concern, probably another legacy choice is better.

>Vanguards Desire

Also something of a niche legacy; PvPwise, it only really shines in fights with one sizeable group pitted against another sizeable group, which is fairly rare. I tend to think of this as the 'Hell trip leader' legacy; it's got some fantastic uses in big group exploration. If you're not interested in doing things like that, this probably isn't your best choice.

I'm okay with there being some fairly niche choices like this, since there are so many choices.

>Mercy of the Typhoon

Saw some rework maybe two years ago. I know some people have had it since then but I don't know how much the changes have ever been talked about. I've definitely seen some characters that didn't pick this legacy that I thought should have, just seeing the way their fights tended to play out.

Much like Surrounding the Sunrise, this is probably a better pick for characters who see a lot of group vs. group or them-solo vs. group fights, and a less good pick for a character who mostly gets one on one fights.

>Forsaken Thoughts

A great pick for anyone especially worried about communers or holy/unholy damage. If rot or wrath or whatever is what keeps killing you or giving you trouble, this is a great legacy.

>Fluid Deceptions

A good legacy, albiet one that's often overshadowed lately by Striking for a lot of the kinds of characters that would normally have been expected to take it. Probably best picked by characters that need or have a plan for its special disarming effect. (Also a good pick if warriors with Striking are your bane, incidentally.)

>Space Between Heartbeats

One of my absolute favorite legacies. Also recently overshadowed by Striking being in vogue, since it also somewhat tends to favor smart/quick warriors vs. brawny ones. I think this is a pretty good legacy even in a vacuum, but sees its full potential realized in conjunction with spec and/or other legacy choices that plan for it. (Most obvious example: this is a great pick for a character who disarms their opponents a lot one way or another.)

>>Mercy of the Typhoon
>
>Saw some rework maybe two years ago. I know some people have
>had it since then but I don't know how much the changes have
>ever been talked about. I've definitely seen some characters
>that didn't pick this legacy that I thought should have, just
>seeing the way their fights tended to play out.
>
>Much like Surrounding the Sunrise, this is probably a better
>pick for characters who see a lot of group vs. group or
>them-solo vs. group fights, and a less good pick for a
>character who mostly gets one on one fights.

Is this legacy based on any stats? Like, the powerfulness of the hits is strength based (beyond normal hits being str based) and perhaps the frequency being dex based? I asked because...

>>Space Between Heartbeats
>
>One of my absolute favorite legacies. Also recently
>overshadowed by Striking being in vogue, since it also
>somewhat tends to favor smart/quick warriors vs. brawny ones.
>I think this is a pretty good legacy even in a vacuum, but
>sees its full potential realized in conjunction with spec
>and/or other legacy choices that plan for it. (Most obvious
>example: this is a great pick for a character who disarms
>their opponents a lot one way or another.)

It is important to know that this legacy (rate of fire + number of strikes) seems to be heavily dex based. It sucked badly for Tac (rip + space FTW... oh wait, no.) in that it rarely fired, and was generally only 1 hit when it did. Juoul (Tac II) got assraped by a felar Maran with it when I got caught spamming directions though. Many hits + firing every time. So keep that in mind.

It would be very very very nice if legacy helpfiles pointed to important factors similar to how edges do. I know (at least originally) the helpfile for striking mentioned a felar, which would be very sub-optimal for striking which was what I discovered by taking it as a cloud giant. IMHO at the time it wasn't something I could have reasonably expected to know that such a legacy was heavily int/wis based.

>>>Mercy of the Typhoon
>Is this legacy based on any stats? Like, the powerfulness of
>the hits is strength based (beyond normal hits being str
>based) and perhaps the frequency being dex based? I asked
>because...

Don't remember. Don't think so.

>>>Space Between Heartbeats

>It is important to know that this legacy (rate of fire +
>number of strikes) seems to be heavily dex based. It sucked
>badly for Tac (rip + space FTW... oh wait, no.) in that it
>rarely fired, and was generally only 1 hit when it did. Juoul
> Tac II) got assraped by a felar Maran with it when I got
>caught spamming directions though. Many hits + firing every
>time. So keep that in mind.
>
>It would be very very very nice if legacy helpfiles pointed to
>important factors similar to how edges do.

The helpfile mentions quickness/reflexes repeatedly; I'm not sure what more you're looking for.

>I know (at least
>originally) the helpfile for striking mentioned a felar

I think you're on drugs here.

>>>>Mercy of the Typhoon
>>Is this legacy based on any stats? Like, the powerfulness
>of
>>the hits is strength based (beyond normal hits being str
>>based) and perhaps the frequency being dex based? I asked
>>because...
>
>Don't remember. Don't think so.

Thanks

>>>>Space Between Heartbeats
>
>>It is important to know that this legacy (rate of fire +
>>number of strikes) seems to be heavily dex based. It sucked
>>badly for Tac (rip + space FTW... oh wait, no.) in that it
>>rarely fired, and was generally only 1 hit when it did.
>Juoul
>> Tac II) got assraped by a felar Maran with it when I got
>>caught spamming directions though. Many hits + firing every
>>time. So keep that in mind.
>>
>>It would be very very very nice if legacy helpfiles pointed
>to
>>important factors similar to how edges do.
>
>The helpfile mentions quickness/reflexes repeatedly; I'm not
>sure what more you're looking for.

Admittedly... I was being an idiot here. I should have known, but didn't read very carefully.

>>I know (at least
>>originally) the helpfile for striking mentioned a felar
>
>I think you're on drugs here.
>

Quite possibly. Could have sworn it originally said something about the guy being a felar, but perhaps I've just equated staff/spear spec with felar in my head. Sorry.

I remember some imms commenting that the person complaining how bad striking was felar as a counterpoint. Felars aren't the smartest of the lot, after all..

First time I took stsf, I had never seen any logs about it, and I took it for role reasons.

I read the helpfile on dio's. THAT helpfile (which might have been the original helpfile, or just badly copied) didn't mention wis or int or anything.

What the helpfile mentioned, was staff. Who DOESN'T immediately think FELAR FTW!!!! when you consider a staff spec? I mean, extra claw attacks almost double your dam, high con to survive long (good for legacy), and good dex for spin.


At hero, I sparred a dwarf a half dozen or so times over a few days(think pole spec) to work other skills like cutoff/drive/disarm etc. took about 20 rounds of combat to get 4 stsf echos...and even then it made no difference in the combat.


At THAT time, I read the in game stsf helpfile...and noticed that it had a sentence that mentioned being as quick of mind as of body or something, that didn't exist on the dio's copy of the helpfile at the time.

boy did I feel foolish.


I still think it was a sick joke, or just poor sportsmanship for the imms to make a legacy with a helpfile that implies it was made specifically for staff specs....which doesn't work for crap on felars....

I mean, I say again, who doesn't give a huge amount of consideration to felar when thinking of playing a staff spec...and here is a legacy designed for staff specs....but only if you aren't a felar.....


arg.

still get a homer-like sense of D'oh-ish injustice when i think about it.

no, haven't played a char with stsf since that felar.

I would've thought Mercy of the Typhoon would be heavily str dependant, considering the helpfile mentions it was created by fire giants.

Renewal of the Spring

To handle any Con problems you have. Also gives extended age - or so the rumours go.

Vanguards Desire

Largely for roleplay over power. It's a bonus to group-orientated tactics and kinda pointless on the whole for a group that can communicate well. It's hardest to replicate affect being 'group warcry'. Because so many classes can't get bless :s

Mercy of the Typhoon

See below.

Forsaken Thoughts

Anti-priest. Does work as an anti-wrath spammer legacy, but mostly handy for those imperial shamans.

Fluid Deceptions

Double feint, with a chance to disarm and auto-feint. This is a REALLY good defensive legacy. With the right combination of specs you can tank far better, or even help someone else tank much better. Imho, very underestimated. Losing a 'few melee attacks' to autofeint can make a big difference in a melee fight.

Space Between Heartbeats

Somewhat underestimated. Pretty cool if you're a high-damage warrior. Combine with hook, entrap or disarm to get some extra hits. It discourages people switching out weapons, wands, etc in combat so watch for them trying to flee a lot more to do so (and take advantage of knowing they need to, to avoid payback). This kind of transparancy of tactics can work against you if you don't plan ahead, mind.

Enjoy.

Yhorian

I've seen some logs of Mercy of the Typhoon that look interesting. When someone in the opposing group fled, the Mercy warrior got a free hit on every opponent he was fighting, and then automatically initiated combat on one opponent. The downside is that the hit is parry/dodge/shield block-able. Might be a good legacy to pair with deathblow (get lucky on the extra hits?) and flurry, which is notorious for triggering wimpy. Utility of this legacy seems to be a little lower if you're not fighting groups.

Awhile back, there were logs of a Fluid Deceptions/Space Between Heartbeats warrior. I'd like to give that build a try sometime. Double feint + disarm + free hits on weapon fumbling...seems interesting against warriors - as long as you aren't lagged. Fluid deceptions seems like it would be a good legacy for fighting NPCs.

Renewal of the Spring may have some interesting side effects, based on some commentary by Nepenthe in my Whispers of the Great Siege thread a few days back. Maybe there's something more to this legacy than meets the eye.

>I've seen some logs of Mercy of the Typhoon that look
>interesting. When someone in the opposing group fled, the
>Mercy warrior got a free hit on every opponent he was
>fighting, and then automatically initiated combat on one
>opponent. The downside is that the hit is parry/dodge/shield
>block-able. Might be a good legacy to pair with deathblow
> get lucky on the extra hits?) and flurry, which is notorious
>for triggering wimpy. Utility of this legacy seems to be a
>little lower if you're not fighting groups.
>
>Awhile back, there were logs of a Fluid Deceptions/Space
>Between Heartbeats warrior. I'd like to give that build a try
>sometime. Double feint + disarm + free hits on weapon
>fumbling...seems interesting against warriors - as long as you
>aren't lagged. Fluid deceptions seems like it would be a good
>legacy for fighting NPCs.

Why everybody is talking about disarming? It doesn't happen often plus many have noremove/nodisarm weapons.
Instead of feint I would go flurry in most cases.

>I've seen some logs of Mercy of the Typhoon that look
>interesting.

It seems great against classes that need to flee from you alot. Thieves , necros, anti-paladins and bards trying for their knockout move. Shamans trying to wither/rot you. If it triggers on cutoff then it could work well with polearm. Or for an imperial fighting someone at centurions. That plus parting blow would be ridiculous.

Renewal of the Spring is really for a character that has low con by the time they get to near Hero.

Mercy of the Typhoon sucked royally from what I remember.

Have never taken any of the others.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

It's benefits were just too specific, and when they fired rarely had a large affect on a battle.

A double parting blow is nice, but it helps if fires more than once a lifetime!

Yhorian