I'm curious more than anything, but why do people only log in, or are more inclined to log in when their range is full of allies? I'm talking about hero range here.
I know most of you do it, because I constantly feel like I'm the only one who doesn't. Seriously though, if I log on, and see one or no foes, I'd much rather log out. It's f**king boring.

I'm not ranting or b***hing, I'm genuinelly curious. Post anon if you wish, I just want to know what you do with no enemies around, what's to enjoy about it.

(The fact of the matter is most people are full of #### when they say they love playing the underdog. I can say that I know my fair share of people ooc. Recently dealing with a couple of "ganging types" I posed the questions why do it? Where is the fun in ganging a full looting the one person who actually shows? The answer, "I wanted to seal the kill." Another example is look at Mosfenwhatchamacallit, Where Farigno said sure we brought seven people, but you deserved it. Yea, he sure deserve it. He was one of the few evils that bothered fighting the horde. Greddarh, is another example I remember a log of him being posted where he was battling three marans and dies and someone thought they did something note worthy.

Now onto the other side. Why play the underdog and constantly get your nose rubbed in the ####? That is a real simple answer. No guts, no glory! Do you remember the dude who killed the newbie or the dude who walked into a group of five, killed four and ran off with 3 hps? )

>
Greddarh, is another
>example I remember a log of him being posted where he was
>battling three marans and dies and someone thought they did
>something note worthy.
>


He was raiding. Honestly, I'm annoyed that you would include us in your category of "ganging types" because we showed up to defend a raid and killed him. Seriously, give me a break.

Furthermore, what this thread lacks is honest self-assessment. Was it necessary for Meakanera to bring the extra guy to every kill? (~2 gank-o-meter for you with that one.) I doubt it. My guess is you "wanted to seal the kill." Was it necessary for Greddarh to gank this poor uncaballed dude 4-1 on the North Road? (log enclosed below - and it's pretty egregious if you ask me.) If we all weren't so quick to blame every player but ourselves for gankage/full looting/selective log ins/whatever, things might work themselves out. You never know. Maybe the change can start with looking at the man in the mirror.

Here's the Greddarh log to give you some perspective:

People near you:
(PK) Throt The North Road
Grith The North Road

1053/1053hp 466/466m 782/844mv (7 AM) civilized 24350tnl The North Road



1053/1053hp 466/466m 781/844mv (7 AM) civilized 24350tnl e
The North Road



1053/1053hp 466/466m 780/844mv (7 AM) civilized 24350tnl s
The North Road



1053/1053hp 466/466m 779/844mv (7 AM) civilized 24350tnl w
A Junction with an Ancient Dwarven Tunnel



1053/1053hp 466/466m 778/844mv (7 AM) civilized 24350tnl w
The North Road



1053/1053hp 466/466m 777/844mv (7 AM) civilized 24350tnl
Greddarh has summoned you!
The North Road


A Nightwalker stands in the shadows, breathing heavily.
A Nightwalker stands in the shadows, breathing heavily.
(WANTED) Kallyiath is here.
(Translucent) A yellow maned lion whips around and glares dispassionately upon you.
A flesh golem lumbers along, vacant eyes watching for its master's presence.
A gibbering ghoul stalks new flesh here, its yellowed fangs bared.
(Ghostly) Zulgoth is here.
(Translucent) (Swirling Air) Larinus is here.
(WANTED) Greddarh is here.

1053/1053hp 466/466m 777/844mv (7 AM) civilized 24350tnl whe
People near you:
(PK) Throt The North Road
(PK) Greddarh The North Road
(PK) Kallyiath The North Road
Veron The North Road
Lardin The North Road
(PK) a lion The North Road
(PK) Larinus The North Road
Grith The North Road
Zulgoth The North Road
Rennog The North Road

1053/1053hp 466/466m 777/844mv (7 AM) civilized 24350tnl e

Kallyiath trips you and you go down!
Kallyiath's trip scratches you.
You yell 'Help! Kallyiath just tripped me!'
Kallyiath is in perfect health.

1051/1053hp 466/466m 777/844mv (7 AM) civilized 24350tnl
A lion rakes his claws across your body.
A lion's raking claws DISMEMBERS you!
A lion's raking claws DISMEMBERS you!
You yell 'Help! a lion is clawing me!'
Kallyiath is in perfect health.

929/1053hp 466/466m 777/844mv (7 AM) civilized 24350tnl
The sky is getting cloudy.

Autosaving.
Zulgoth becomes corporeal again.
Kallyiath is in perfect health.

942/1053hp 466/466m 833/844mv (8 AM) civilized 24350tnl
You yell 'Help! I'm being attacked by the Nightwalker!'
You parry the Nightwalker's claw.
You dodge the Nightwalker's claw.
You parry the Nightwalker's claw.
You parry Kallyiath's cut.
You parry Kallyiath's defilement.
You dodge Kallyiath's cut.
You parry Kallyiath's defilement.
You dodge Greddarh's cleave.
You dodge Greddarh's defilement.
You dodge Greddarh's cleave.
Greddarh's defilement DISMEMBERS you!
Kallyiath dodges your cleave.
You dodge a lion's claw.
A lion's claw DISMEMBERS you!
A lion's claw DISMEMBERS you!
A lion's claw misses you.
A lion's claw DISMEMBERS you!
Kallyiath is in perfect health.

703/1053hp 466/466m 833/844mv (8 AM) civilized 24350tnl
Swinging his foot to one side, Greddarh knocks your feet together and you fall!
Greddarh's trip scratches you.
Kallyiath is in perfect health.

701/1053hp 466/466m 833/844mv (8 AM) civilized 24350tnl flee

You yell 'Die, Larinus, you sorcerous dog!'
Larinus utters the words, 'szbbrz ha bajroculof'.
Larinus tosses a small pebble at you.
In mid-air the pebble transforms into a huge boulder!
The huge boulder narrowly misses you.
Kallyiath is in perfect health.

701/1053hp 466/466m 833/844mv (8 AM) civilized 24350tnl
You parry the Nightwalker's claw.
At the last moment you avoid Greddarh's cleave.
You parry Greddarh's defilement.
You dodge Greddarh's cleave.
You dodge Greddarh's cleave.
Kallyiath's cut EVISCERATES you!
You barely manage to turn Kallyiath's defilement aside.
Your cleave EVISCERATES Kallyiath!
Kallyiath parries your cleave.
You dodge a lion's claw.
A lion's claw DISMEMBERS you!
You parry a lion's claw.
A lion's claw misses you.
Kallyiath has a few scratches.

598/1053hp 466/466m 833/844mv (8 AM) civilized 24350tnl
You yell 'Help! I'm being attacked by the Nightwalker!'
You parry the Nightwalker's claw.
Kallyiath has a few scratches.

598/1053hp 466/466m 833/844mv (8 AM) civilized 24350tnl
With a powerful leap, Kallyiath executes a rising crescent kick on you!
Kallyiath drives his spiked boot into your body!
Kallyiath's mountain storm kick DISMEMBERS you!
A lion rakes his claws across your body.
A lion's raking claws MASSACRES you!
A lion's raking claws DISMEMBERS you!
Kallyiath has a few scratches.

411/1053hp 466/466m 833/844mv (8 AM) civilized 24350tnl
You parry the Nightwalker's claw.
You parry the Nightwalker's claw.
The Nightwalker's claw mauls you.
You dodge Greddarh's cleave.
Greddarh's defilement DISMEMBERS you!
Greddarh's cleave DISMEMBERS you!
You parry Kallyiath's cut.
You dodge Kallyiath's defilement.
You dodge Kallyiath's cut.
Kallyiath parries your cleave.
Kallyiath dodges your cleave.
A lion's claw MASSACRES you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
A lion's claw MASSACRES you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
A lion's claw MASSACRES you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
Kallyiath has a few scratches.

70/1053hp 466/466m 833/844mv (8 AM) civilized 24350tnl
Greddarh's trip misses you.
Kallyiath has a few scratches.

70/1053hp 466/466m 833/844mv (8 AM) civilized 24350tnl
You yell 'Die, Larinus, you sorcerous dog!'
Larinus utters the words, 'yaftze diesilla'.
Larinus's hands crackle with electricity as he unleashes a forked bolt of lightning!
Larinus's forked lightning MANGLES you!
You have been KILLED!!


You feel you will be less able to deflect blows with your armor.
You have died, but the Carrion Fields are not finished with you yet!
Your soul is returned to the realms in the form of a ghost.
You will return to your corporeal state in a short while.
Be careful, for even a ghost should fear some dangers!

1/988hp 1/466m 833/844mv (8 AM) civilized 24350tnl Better stand up first.

Furthermore, what this thread lacks is honest self-assessment. Was it necessary for Meakanera to bring the extra guy to every kill? (~2 gank-o-meter for you with that one.) I doubt it. My guess is you "wanted to seal the kill." Was it necessary for Greddarh to gank this poor uncaballed dude 4-1 on the North Road? (log enclosed below - and it's pretty egregious if you ask me.) If we all weren't so quick to blame every player but ourselves for gankage/full looting/selective log ins/whatever, things might work themselves out. You never know. Maybe the change can start with looking at the man in the mirror.

That gang meter was just under 2, but it doesn't take into account how many of those types were group vs group. So your guess is wrong. And I wasn't blaming you specifically, since I have seen you make at least some effort of a one on one fight. As far as looking at ourselves, I'm pretty sure that is what this post was suggesting from the start. If you want the truth of the matter I really blame the current cabal system as much as anything else.

A. I had me and 3 people in my group.
B. He attacked us, not the other way around. It is idiotic to attack a group and claim that they gang you, hell even if you attack a group of villagers, you expect them to all attack you.
C. Nreishe was within two rooms of the engagement.
D. I saw Caroolth get attacked, so I went and healed him. Morasfenmire fled, and *chose* to engage us all because he thought none of us could lag him. Essentially, Morasfenmire was not mad that he got ganked, he was angry that he died when he didn't think he was going to lose.
E. You leave enough people naked, it's going to come back at you. Of the people that were in the group, he had left one naked repeatedly, one naked at least once, me half naked when he knew he killed me mindless, and I'm not sure about the other one.
F. I'd fought him at least 20 times solo, chasing him off probably 18 of those times, so it's not like I was unwilling to face him alone many, many times.
G. Three people taking down Cabdru would be noteworthy, maybe the same for Greddarh to a lesser extent, when he has a lot of charges.
H. I can give people sanctuary when they are in my group, which is a darned good reason for me to be grouping with them.
I. The only part of what you said that was correct-Morasfenmire did deserve anything he got.

As an aside, this is why you should be able to use different names instead of your login on this forum, because I had to register a new account so I could defend myself on this and not give away who the player behind the character is.

I think the answers to all of your questions are either covered or obvious. Internet Tough Guy Syndrome, in its IC form.

The better question would be: What can we practically do about it?

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I've often sat and mused about what it would be like if all aspects of CF were like Minotaur limits. If there could only be so many forties, battle, imperials, tribunals, scions....bla bla bla. I'm a big promoter of one guy/one character philosophy because I think if everyone did this, and we actually tried to keep a "balance" we might see some semblance of awesome cabal wars. As it stands now, we see what seems to be massive log-ins log-offs and the only time recently that I've seen many cabals all in the same place was when the Dragon's changed. We were out there brawling with each other and with the dragon...and it was a fun time.

I'm sure you imms in your wisdom have thought on these things, but maybe you can give some ideas into what I'm saying. How feasible could it be?

1) Most cabals have "soft" limits like this. Their immortals will step in if the leaders are just inducting everyone, and can make exceptions for exceptional applicants.

2) I really don't want to turn away qualified applicants because of a hard-coded cap.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I would be interested in seeing a statistical breakdown on what percentage of the playerbase plays multiple caballed characters at once.

Granted, IP addresses fluctuate and there is no perfect way (short of the oft-reviled registration system) to uniquely identify the players behind the characters.

My playtime is very limited, so I tend to have only one character at a time, and certainly no more than one caballed character at a time. I think much of the playerbase buys into the one caballed character philosophy, and if the results of such a study were positive I think it could be helpful to release them to the playerbase.

Granted, there are some people who spend a great deal of time playing, and have multiple caballed characters, but I have a feeling that number is quite low.

The one thing that gets me though, is when I see a character who has been virtually dormant (for whatever reason) suddenly log on when there are a significant number of allies around. Double plus ungood when said character has lots of top-notch equipment.

I wonder whether a loose policy (honor-system) of one caballed character per player would be able to take hold. I feel like you wouldn't drive anyone away, and the vast majority of players would appreciate it.

As it is, there's just no stated policy.

Thoughts?

T

Give more rewards for the risk takers. I've seen Nepenthe do it a fair bit of late. Why can't some of the other imms? How many hidden spells/skills/forms/virtues are out there? I'm not saying hand out executioner's grace and wolverine like candy, but there are some pretty damn nice utility abilities that could be given out.

For the gangers, I'd like to see another addition to the gangcode. Where gangs actually tank worse and take an additional amount of damage.

Would be cool if ganging over time could decrease your skill abilities . Evil, but evil in a good way.

I just wonder how bad the whining would get though from the 2+ gank-o-meter crowd.

Because its convenient. Because its what they want to do. And because all other things equal, people take the path of least resistance.

You are right. Most people don't like being underdogs. I do, to some extent. I like a challenging range, but not an onslaught. When I'm fighting a group of 8, solo, every goddamn time I login, no I don't like being the underdog. I've deleted characters because I got sick of that whole mentality, and led many a rant over it.

But the fact remains, why do people do anything like that? Because people are people.

The only way to deal with it is some sort of incentive system which helps counteract it, but primarily its either not enough or too much. The imms try to do this, but its not a black and white issue either.

Its a tricky thing, but asking people to not do it is much like asking your employees not to steal from you. Go ahead and ask, but don't expect it to have much of an affect.

One of the best non-CF answers I've read in ages. Good lord, it tickled me, especially this part:

"It's a tricky thing, but asking people to not do it is much like asking your employees not to steal from you. Go ahead and ask, but don't expect it to have much of an affect."

I'll give you some brownie points.

Good to hear from you again, DC.

Looks like I had already given you some brownie points in the past. It's giving me an error. Shucks!

It is definately my wish to log on to a range that is slanted more against me than for me. However, with all the talk of game balance there will never be a true "balance" when people have the choice to play anything they want. We all know thera goes through swings and there are some of us who create characters to try and go against it. I'm not saying I always play one, but I tend to try. I just deleted my Vindicator because I was completely bored with the lack of enemies out there.

However, a lot of people can't stand up on their own, in life and in the game. They have to rely on other people. I'm not trying to lump everyone in one category, but you could honestly do a sociological project as it pertains to these games and what people do.

Ganging, full-looting, cheating. We all go through times of these things, but there are some (Arolin) who were always in certain categories. There are some who are "always" whiney about their things. There are some who "quit" every month and come right back but seem to do it for attention on Dio's.

Just a few thoughts.

Namely, winning, at any cost. I think you'll find thats a mentality that stretches far beyond just CF.