Greetings, all. In the past, I've thrown some quite lame ideas around about improving this aspect of the game or that one. Honestly, I love the game how it is. We, as a group of players, complain far too much and contribute way too little. So, this particular message about gameplay is directed towards us players, not the hard-working immortals.

Recently, I have been introduced to the Cabal system. I've played this game for months, and there are several things I haven't tried. First, is empowerment. Second, a long-lasting evil character. Third, joining a cabal. This has opened all new realms of roleplay opportunity and interaction. I've learned so much about survival as a group and working towards a specific roleplayed cause. However, it seems of late that there have been insane amounts of cabal raiding for no reason other than to have a trophy. While this may work for the Villagers, whose only reason to raid a cabal could be getting drunk and thinking it was a good idea, there seems, most of the time, no good reason for one cabal to raid another.

Where is the roleplay and interaction? Why would the Warlocks, who should be somewhat peaceful and minding their studies, make an unprovoked attack on the Empire? Or the Sylvans raiding the Warlocks when there are no conjurers about? I understand that there are wars between the groups, but wars have planning and take time to execute. So far, the most thought-out plan to go raid another cabal was "We got eight members here. Let's go raid someone." Leaders especially should create valid reasons for attacking another group, or even a person. "Mazaufat has entered the lands, let's go kill him." First off, that seems very cowardly. Secondly, for what reason do we kill the drow? Leaders should work on increasing roleplay within their respective cabals. A few people seem to be buddy-buddy, which is alright if its roleplayed well. But then, when speaking with everyone else, it almost seems too much a problem to put any effort in it. Anyway, food for thought.

I realize that I am being cryptic to which cabal I belong to, and its on purpose. My persona on these boards should be separated from the one I've created on CF. Though I'm not always the best roleplayer, I strive to be something greater than I am. Especially reading about all the deletes recently, I was disappointed in how everyone was worried about gangbanging one another. If these gangbangs were roleplayed properly, creating a bit of a twist and a little more fun, I think far fewer people would complain. I hate participating in a raid, or being raided, and you never hear one word from either side. Not just trashtalk, but valid communication. Maybe a little guardian interaction. "Quick, circle the bear!" "Good job! Now hold him down!" (yelling) "To arms! The Villagers attack!" Something. Anything.

In conclusion to this incredibly long ramble, we look to the Immortals for help with gangbanging and uneven sides. Well, perhaps there is some they can do, but most of it should be placed on the players. A young Empire rebirthing will be weak for a while. An alliance of cabals against a common enemy would be natural. There are alliances in wars, just as there are betrayals and uneven sides. Its how we work with it that makes the difference. I read that a couple of the Imperials who deleted said they'd make it their sole mission to create a character and only PK. Fine. Do it. But at least have a good reason for doing it other than "Because in a past life, they ganged on me and I'm a really, really sore loser."

Captain Average
Mildly Taking a Stance

I swear, every time I see the title of this post I think it's going to be a whine about how nodrop paladin_only swords react to strength-reducing maladictions.

Hey CaptainAverage, and welcome to the Carrion Fields community. I want to address the things you said, as I feel it is well deserved. You obviously spent a lot of time and effort on making a well thought out post, and the least I can do is show you the same courtesy. Here goes:

Greetings, all. In the past, I've thrown some quite lame ideas around about improving this aspect of the game or that one. Honestly, I love the game how it is. We, as a group of players, complain far too much and contribute way too little. So, this particular message about gameplay is directed towards us players, not the hard-working immortals.

It is my feeling, as it always has been, that the players are the driving force behind Carrion Fields. Many people take this for granted. Many people feel powerless if they're not an Immortal. In my 9 years involved with CF the following has always been my opinion: They Listen. They really do! If we, the players, make a statement within the game, or on these forums, or privately through e-mail, they will hear us. The problems arise when one's ideas are shot down, or otherwise refuted. Most cannot swallow their own pride and realize that the Imms themselves have more information at their disposal, thereby allowing them to see an even bigger picture than we might think we are able to see. The end result? Good work suggesting the idea, don't quit thinking, or sharing, just because it was denied. The game is in our hands. The Immortals are just normal people, once players themselves, that believe they are in a place in their life where they can accept the responsibilities of an Immortal. It is good to see a nicely structured post put together, and I do hope you stick around... now onto the less-cheery stuff.

Recently, I have been introduced to the Cabal system. I've played this game for months, and there are several things I haven't tried. First, is empowerment. Second, a long-lasting evil character. Third, joining a cabal. This has opened all new realms of roleplay opportunity and interaction. I've learned so much about survival as a group and working towards a specific roleplayed cause.

Good, that's what the cabal system is there for. You are openly telling Thera that you believe in xyz, right off the bat. This obviously has advantages and disadvantages... but ultimately it all enhances the roleplaying experience. I would suggest you try out an empowerment character. From just reading this post you seem to have a good grasp of what roleplaying is. No Long-lasting Evil character? Does it intimidate you for some reason, or have you just not gotten around to it?

However, it seems of late that there have been insane amounts of cabal raiding for no reason other than to have a trophy. While this may work for the Villagers, whose only reason to raid a cabal could be getting drunk and thinking it was a good idea, there seems, most of the time, no good reason for one cabal to raid another.

Apparently you don't quite grasp the entire Cabal idea. Think of Cabals as organizations. You join this organization and are boldly stating I believe in this moral, I will strive toward this goal, and I would die, if necessary, for our cause. A terse explanation, but a decently accurate one. Carrion Fields is a PLAYERKILLING MUD, with RP enforced, not visa versa. It makes perfect sense and is to be expected that Cabals will constantly be warring with one another. They are like countries fighting wars, companies fighting hostile stock takeovers, or Challenger VS American Gladiator in those pugil matches. Here is some insight so that you may better understand.

You say that BATTLE is the only one that really has a solid reason to be raiding other cabals. Let's assume that's true for the moment. Wouldn't the other cabals then have a solid reason to, at the very least, attack BATTLE? It would be merely a pre-emptive strike to preserve their own organization. Since they know the Villagers will be attacking them at some point, what better way to lessen the damage than to attack first, steal their item, thereby reducing their ability to inflict harm, and perhaps even avoiding a future confrontation.

That, though, isn't how it is at all. Most cabals have many other cabals they could justifiably strike at... constantly. Pretty much anyone against EMPIRE because EMPIRE is blatantly saying... "Look. We're taking over this place." That gives just about everyone a valid reason to attack them. Same goes for those that are roleplaying a character that may despise order... they may also include TRIBUNAL in their list of enemies. See where I'm going with this? Basically the Cabal system at quick glance seems pretty simple, but in practice it is horribly complicated. Be careful with your cabal experience.

I addressed some of the further text in your post already, but this caught my eye as well...

So far, the most thought-out plan to go raid another cabal was "We got eight members here. Let's go raid someone."

If you think it is a bad "plan"... take control of the situation. I have played so many characters and my groups have had phenomenally better results if I was the one to lead and plan the attack. Something as simple as, "Healer A, you will take care of Member1, Member2 and Member3. I will handle Member4 and Member5." or "Be sure to make them all glow." You are correct, a lot of planning goes into a well-thought out strike. Just recently I played a healer called Zekasiq. I was pretty much involved in fighting the majority of time I was online. I can recall a few battles where it would be myself and three others against 6-7 Maran, and we would win, because we had better planning... even a few occasions this was openly admitted afterward by the Maran, and on a few specific occasions I was complimented for 'leading the battle.' Oh, the reverse happened of this too. Many times. People seem to think that just because you have the advantage in numbers, planning can take a back seat. Not true. If you think your cabalmates are hastily rushing into battle, I would suggest you do something about it... or at the very least make sure comment about the leadership ability of whomever put the raid together, if it fails, or someone dies.

Leaders especially should create valid reasons for attacking another group, or even a person. "Mazaufat has entered the lands, let's go kill him." First off, that seems very cowardly. Secondly, for what reason do we kill the drow? Leaders should work on increasing roleplay within their respective cabals. A few people seem to be buddy-buddy, which is alright if its roleplayed well. But then, when speaking with everyone else, it almost seems too much a problem to put any effort in it. Anyway, food for thought.

If you view something as a 'problem' then it is worth putting effort into it. If a drow enters the game and you're a bunch of elves, why WOULDN'T you kill the Drow? Again, I have played Drow characters that were downright evil, and I have also played Drow characters that were made neutral, good, and viewed as a Goodie on many accounts. In some respects, I was less of a concern to the Goodies, and so they didn't bother with me. At times this was a truthful representation, at other times it was deceptive to merely keep them off my back for the time being. That's the beauty of Carrion Fields. I wholeheartedly agree that people should have valid reasons for attacking anything, and they shouldn't if they don't. Even NPCs.

I hate participating in a raid, or being raided, and you never hear one word from either side. Not just trashtalk, but valid communication. Maybe a little guardian interaction. "Quick, circle the bear!" "Good job! Now hold him down!" (yelling) "To arms! The Villagers attack!" Something. Anything.

I know the feeling. So many times I have died because I'm running away from an enemy cabal and I tell my group "I am quite hurt and must recover and do so near my hometown. Retreat." rather than simply saying "Quaffed. Run." to my group. Nothing annoys me more than that. Most people leave their RP behind in these situations, because let's face it, you're leaving yourself vulnerable typing 25 words compared to 3... even with someone like myself that types 100+wpm. I've died by typing a long message mentioning who was around, what their health status was, and otherwise... instead of running for the next 15-20 seconds and THEN typing that message, because I felt it was critical to give an update... them's the breaks. My suggestion to you would be to make sure YOUR RP doesn't break down. It'll get noticed by the Immortals, and even if it doesn't, you can be confident you always RP'd... even if it caused some otherwise avoidable deaths. Trust me, knowing you always stayed in character and didn't break it just because you were in an intense raid situation or whatever is more satisfying than avoiding a few deaths in your characters lifetime because you said "Retreat! Regroup!" instead of "run"

But at least have a good reason for doing it other than "Because in a past life, they ganged on me and I'm a really, really sore loser."

Well put. Hope I hit on most topics.

-Zepachuckle

Many people feel powerless if they're not an Immortal. In my 9 years involved with CF the following has always been my opinion: They Listen. They really do! If we, the players, make a statement within the game, or on these forums, or privately through e-mail, they will hear us. The problems arise when one's ideas are shot down, or otherwise refuted. Most cannot swallow their own pride and realize that the Imms themselves have more information at their disposal, thereby allowing them to see an even bigger picture than we might think we are able to see.

I'll add: "If you saw the internal discussion among staff members, you'd see that most ideas are shot down, mortal or immortal." And also: "If 50% of people think something is good, and 50% of people think something is bad, you don't implement it. It's added workload for something that might be a gain or might be a loss. There's always better bets worth working on." The reason you see a lot more 'No.' than 'Yes.' is because for an idea to gather momentum it has to be something that all or mostly all of us agree:

1) Is worth the time it would take to do.
2) Has low potential for abuse.
3) Fits our IC and OOC style.
4) Affects game balance mechanically in a desired direction.
5) Encourages a style of play that we think makes the game attractive.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Well, thought I'd throw in a couple of my own opinions. First of all, no matter the leader of a group, no matter the plans involved, something is always ready to go wrong. Not really a big point, just thought it something to point out. As for your example of RP during running, have to disagree to an extent. I don't believe something along the lines of "gt Quaff" is exactly RP, but then again, a simple "Getout" "Fall back" or even the very simple "RUN!" can't be counted as bad RP. Think of this realisticly. You and a few friends are out and about on the town. A few people, for whatever reasons, start shooting at you. Now, would you take the time to say "That man over there in the trenchcoat is shooting a Beretta 9mm, the one with the long hair an Uzi, and the large guy to the side there a sawed-off shotgun. Perhaps it would be in our best interests to get down and try to get away from these obviously insane individuals." I seriously doubt anyone would that isn't on some very serious drugs. Something more along the lines of "Get down" or "Run" is much more likely if there is anything but screaming and every man for himself. Life and death situations do not always allow for alot of talking. Just a thought.

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." - Jimi Hendrix

I suppose you are correct and I should have pointed that all out. I oversimplified it. Yeah, shouting 'Retreat!' or 'Run!' is not bad RP. I thought I made it painfully obvious that my problem lies within statements that hold no RP value, like 'Quaffed' or whatever.

Oh, another thing. Capitalize, people, capitalize! Maybe that is something I should have mentioned.

To me, telling your group "run" and "Run!" and "Run." all have different RP value.

It kills me sometimes listening to the cabal channel/group talk. You can really pick out the people that are roleplaying because when you take them out of the mix (and this doesn't mean accents, it's more about what the person is saying) then CB starts sounding like a chatroom

--SIG
Two wrongs dont make a right, but three rights make a left

>From just reading this post you seem to have a good grasp of what
>roleplaying is. No Long-lasting Evil character? Does it intimidate
>you for some reason, or have you just not gotten around to it?

There's a few other reasons to not yet play a long-lasting evil character. My original reason and why I probably still wouldn't enjoy it, is because my introduction to RPGs was through the heroic school of playing, where playing an evil character often meant a falling apart of the group dynamic that paper and pencil RPGs usually depend on. I like and miss that kind of RP, and try to promote it when I'm running a game.

The other reason I don't play long-lasting evil is demonstrated by my short lived Nazmorghul follower: the character wasn't dedicated enough and was too easily tempted to the good (or at least neutral) side of things. That fault was entirely with the player in this case; I wasn't prepared to play truly evil then, and I don't yet feel ready to do it. If I can't do it well, I'd prefer to leave it to those who can.

>Carrion Fields is a PLAYERKILLING MUD, with RP enforced, not
>visa versa. It makes perfect sense and is to be expected that
>Cabals will constantly be warring with one another.

In fact, the RP that the cabal wars and other PKing brings is a large part of why the focus isn't on RP first and PK second. I've been to muds where PKing was optional but RP came first. They tend to degrade into social clubs. Instead of the OOC chatter about your day from olden times of CF, you end up with IC chatter about other characters, and only newbies bother to kill others. This is not what the playerbase of CF wants from CF, to my knowledge.

At the same time, RP is enforced so that we don't have rampant and pointless PK (see below). Cabal wars allow an IC reason for PK and various other adrenaline inducing activities (ie. raids, ambushes, etc).

>>So far, the most thought-out plan to go raid another cabal was
>>"We got eight members here. Let's go raid someone."

Sadly, that was about as far as it got before RP was truly enforced. Outside the cabal wars it was little more than an online first person shooter.