This has to do with ranking post 40 in regards to alignment. I've gone up both ways quite a bit, and I definately have to say that being good is so much easier to hero. And it doesn't really have anything to do with alignment, but moreso on availability of areas and the classes generally played.

Most healer types (it seems), are good. A few neutral. Even less evil (except for the current influx of Empire healers). This is also true for bards. It's just the nauture of the class and who it appeals to, I guess. Having someone in a group to heal really makes ranking much more fluid (less risks, keep going longer). Need I mention paladins, too? Gah, super tanks with heal and sanctuary. And there seems to be like 9 hero pallies on any given night (Warning: Exaggeration (Slightly)).

Good aligned characters also have more locations to choose from that better suit the variance of groups. Shadar, Aridhol, Arboria, Mount Calandryl, Sahuagins, Pyramid, Thar Acacia, Sitran, and...uh, that's all I remember ever heroing at. Probably more though.

For evils, we have like...three places to go. Kiadana, RotD, and Aridhol. It's pretty tough to get a group able to take Thar Acacia, but I've done it before. Since spirits got nuked (half exp, unlimited swords, and rewielding disarm), storm giants still assist (at least you can summon some of them if high ranked enough), and Aridhol is always full of either ragers or goodies, there really isn't a good place to hero.

I don't think anyone is asking for heroing to be easier, but at least make it onpar alignment wise. I'm inclined to blame the availability of ranking options on why good has seemed to have thousands of heros around. Sure, they log off when a few Scion manage to get together at hero, but that's another post in itself.

I hope I'm not crying (or pissing) in the wind, but I just felt this was something useful to talk about. Thanks.

As for advantages, evils have ap's and necros with sleep, if its a crowded room you can sleep, blind and such. Making fleeing safer. You dont have that much healing at hand, with the exception of a necro having his zombies there, and his vamp touch. So I would not aggrea that ranking as evil is that much harder than ranking as a goodie.

But I do aggrea on that you have less places to go ranking as a hero... But I see this also as a reflection upon that there are only two good only races. and 4 evil only races. And that there are 3 evil only classes(including orc here) and one goodie class...

Just my view of things....
(and yes I aggrea that a paladin is a great tank with sanc and heal)
LH

As for advantages, evils have ap's and necros with sleep, if its a crowded room you can sleep, blind and such. Making fleeing safer. You dont have that much healing at hand, with the exception of a necro having his zombies there, and his vamp touch. So I would not aggrea that ranking as evil is that much harder than ranking as a goodie.

A necromancer might be the single worst class for ranking. I'm not necessarily opposed to that- the class has a lot of PK offense and smooooveness in other areas, but ranking is definitely one of the class's drawbacks. Zombies and other undead are difficult to use while ranking. You don't want them in the group (for the same reason you don't bring pets ranking), and if they're out of the group they hinder area-effect stuff. Also, Vampiric Touch only shines if you are tanking, and you're mediocre at best at that role. Disruption has some important utility, but at best you're a poor man's invoker, and if you're using Disruption, most of your maledictions are useless.

APs and orcs aren't bad in a group by any means, but I'd definitely prefer a paladin or good-aligned conjurer in that role at the higher levels. At the lower levels, almost any group of three works pretty well anyway, but when the challenge rises, APs and orcs aren't your first choice.

That said, these facts are part of class balance, and not something we're necessarily interested in "fixing"- no class is intended to be good at everything. The Area Team stuff I was discussing elsewhere has more to do with the number and appropriateness of high level areas for each alignment.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>For evils, we have like...three places to go. Kiadana, RotD,
>and Aridhol.

You can rank in the Realm of the Dead? A-W-E-S-O-M-E.

(Yeah, I know.)

For what it's worth, afaik evils can rank in Thar too.

Overall I agree with you that it's harder to hero evils. I'm not sure that's a bad thing, since evils have other advantages (as I'm sure nepenthe will point out).

One other "for what it's worth" comment - there are more than one type of spirit. Last time I was down there they weren't all nerfed. As with all game knowledge, this too could be outdated.

Not really much more to say other than we know.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

That's not at all what I expected, but glad you guys are a step ahead. Hopefully something productive happens.

Curious though - internal discussion about alignment/class or areas available? Gracias.

>That's not at all what I expected, but glad you guys are a
>step ahead. Hopefully something productive happens.
>
>Curious though - internal discussion about alignment/class or
>areas available? Gracias.

Ranking areas for evil past level 25.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

What's the general consensus on solving this problem? New areas? Adjustments? If you guys would like, I've already thought about it a lot and have my own ideas running through that would help balance a few existing areas, making them worthwhile to rank at and be somewhat similar in difficulty to other areas.

For now, I feel the main focus should be 37 and up. Choices really become scarce around there.

What's the general consensus on solving this problem? New areas? Adjustments?

From an area team perspective, it's something that comes into the decision process now starting when initial proposals are considered. It's also a component in reviews- I try to evaluate each area's utility from a few angles, and gaining experience is one of the major ones, and it's taken more priority recently. There's also been some tweaking of existing areas (like Shadar) to put them more on par with other areas.

From a code team perspective, we're looking at the method used to calculate experience points, and considering ways to make the process more reflective of the current difficulty. This might mean that "vanilla" NPCs are worth a little less (possibly only at higher levels), but would also mean that, say, NPCs that have special abilities are worth more than they currently are. To use an example you gave above, silvery spirits can do some sword spec moves. Maybe if one starts with a sword in hand, it's worth a little extra. Maybe if a different NPC started with two swords in hand, it's worth even more. It sounds good (to me at least) in theory, and we're looking into ways to implement it without introducing new imbalances.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I'm guessing that the hard part of "without introducing new imbalances" has to do with figuring out the possible imbalances?

If so, here's an idea that might help:

Instead of making the difficulty thing a flat bonus on base xp, introduce a new system based on difficulty. Then figure xp both ways and pick the bigger number (that way, if mob already gave lots of xp because it is difficult the new mechanism won't be a problem).

As an aside: you might want to log or set a flag if the two xps are wildly different. Those are probably mobs that deserve a closer look.

(It's great not being an imm -- I can say stuff like this and totally gloss over the difficulty in figuring out how to measure "difficulty".)

>For now, I feel the main focus should be 37 and up. Choices
>really become scarce around there.

For the most part I think ranking to 40 is relatively easy for any alignment. I think it is post 40 that the options for evil become limited.

Sure neutrals can take advantage of both good and evil ranking areas, but they don't get the xp bonus from alignment. So, even for neutrals ranking past 40 isn't quite so easy.

It may be even harder for neutrals than evils to rank from about 40+, I'm not sure on that count.

Then again, without the huge xp holes of years ago, we have all these heroes around, which shows that getting there isn't the big thing it used to be. It's almost common, as demonstrated by the idea of a global echo for getting there. Maybe heroing should be made harder again, but with a careful eye towards making sure it's balanced for all.

Me, I think there's a few too many heroes.