Mon Feb 4 23:56:14 2019

At 7 o'clock PM, Day of the Great Gods, 33rd of the Month of Winter
on the Theran calendar Ihjezhed perished, never to return.

Did have one question for the imms, why no last name? Was there something wrong with it or was it something else?

Nothing wrong with it from what I see. Speaking for just me, I think I just totally didn't think about it. Generally speaking folks who reached Ihjz' age and achievements get it, so from a simple glance I think it just got overlooked. I see no notes about it being an unacceptable name at least.

Now your turn to answer my question, CloudFollower! What made you pick it for a last name?

-Ish

I loved the character. He was the nicest person in the world, always looking to be friends, and even those he hated (mages, a few others) he would share an ale with when they (or he) died. Most interactions were great. Particular thumbs up to Rast and Bellin (appreciate your comments below, right back at you both!) and Quinloc. Bellin in particular did great (still does I'm sure) finding the fine line between being belligerent and being an ass. Totally frustrating, but totally good char rp. Rast, you were the very first person I spoke with and I'm flattered you found the char strong at level one, that's a real compliment. It was great interacting with you during your out-of-village time, and then back in. And Quinloc, I know you had a real love/hate (more hate I'm sure!) with Ihj, but again, you always kept it IC and were particularly good with the witty quips. I'm going to be emulating some of that one day I imagine! There are some others, so please don't be insulted if I don't mention here, and if you write I will definitely respond.

Three or four real sources of frustration and, honestly, some anger. First was the total hypocrisy and ridiculousness of what happened with Sqierna. Her elemental attacks someone in Hamsah. That person is not wanted. It's a pure and simple violation of the primary law, no attacking in town. I've played long enough to know that it's always been the rule that archons/angels/devils/elemental/demons are considered the conjurer for such purposes, when they attack a pc. It's like if a rager were to quaff a potion (if not hardcoded, obviously), or an outlander going and buying adamantite from a city shopkeeper and wearing it. Or a maran grouping with an antipaladin and killing goodie orphans. It's violation of the fundamental rule of the organization. And not just a regular person, but a vindicator.

What happened? No punishment. I'm sure Ishuli will come and say there was some internal punishment of some sort, but please don't waste your time. Having to write something? Having to spend time on something? Come on. Not just not losing leader status, not getting booted from the cabal at all. You can't even apply if you've committed a crime, now you have a leader who has. It *really* turned me off to the game, seeing an imm handle it this way. There's already a lot of problems with people not paying consequences for rp decisions, this was just a bridge too far.

Second, I won't lie, Ergush, some of this is a result of you. You didn't respond for ages, then when you do, it's a great conversation, you give me a task. I do the task and write you a note with the results and then ... nothing. Ever again. Over about a month. Not even a response saying you saw what I wrote, anything at all. Pretty demoralizing. Nobody gets real life crap more than I do, but you were online several times and at the very least, let me suggest in the future you don't just go silent but rather at least something to acknowledge you get the person's looking for you and had done what you asked and was waiting on you. Coming up on 300 hours without even a hint there would be a second talk was not the main part of the deletion, but it was a factor.

Third, and perhaps the biggest, really, was the game itself. Meaning, I won't exactly say I was bored, but pretty close, as the last several weeks I spent almost the entire time without anyone to engage with. A few people from time to time, but mostly it would work this way: I would log on, and pretty much any mages online at the time (or other enemies) would log off within 20 minutes. I'm not arrogant enough to think it was always a direct result, but it wasn't just now and then. It was the norm. So much so that I would spend much of my time just gathering tahren items, or getting equ for non-hero villagers, or just going and exploring alone (or, on two or three occasions, with other villagers online at the time). This was true for weeks.

And in the last four weeks, I never - ever - saw any member of the imperial council. Once, Urmnar (sp?) logged on and was terrific and we fought several times and I give huge props (though with the caveat that venoms priests are silly, just go in, one or two communes, done - dying to a 30 rot was just not fun, nor was venoms, when as a villager you can do nothing) for showing up. Hero bard, hero ap, hero thief, etc., never once was even logged on, much less participating or fighting. Total avoidance. Maybe you guys were on all the time when I wasn't on, but others told me they never saw you either, so who knows. And you used to be on when I was on, back when I was not a hero and then a new hero. But then when other battle heroes leveled up and things maybe wouldn't be so easy for you, you all just stopped. Weak sauce.

So, mostly boredom at the end, with that other stuff. Didn't mean to get quite so negative here, the actual rp'ing with people was great, and I loved the ale and the laughing and the emotes (I hope they came across as natural, if also often) and the speech and all that stuff. Rites were great, though of course I should have been made commander. Har!

Unsure if/when I'll be back. The tribunal stuff was really disheartening and, unlike other issues and player stuff, made me really disillusioned about the behind-the-scenes stuff in a way that maybe can't be cured; it wasn't a bug, it was by design, obviously, and that design is a fundamental problem for me. That being said, after enough time there's always the pull and hope that maybe something's different. So no promises!

I enjoyed our brief interactions even if I was very frustrated at the situation. What I said about folks attacking in numbers wasn't an exaggeration. Ultimately it wasn't that bad because dying is a part of CF but things do get frustrating.

I would have liked to have had a drink with you at some point but I haven't came across you in a week or two either, maybe our times quit meshing. It is still my plan to move forward and demonstrate what I was talking about and be an instructor of sorts... though we all know how plans work.

Anyway, come on back at any time. And if boredom is a problem. You could always roll any mage class. Villagers will find you all the time, every day. You'll have something to do then.

Thanks for the feedback.

Given I'm not much into talking about active chars, I'll at least tell you my general view.

As in most cabals, if someone makes a mistake, a one-off, or whatever it may be depending on the severity - there is typically some form of internal nudging in the right direction. A Fort guy kills a goodie? He doesn't get immediate induct none, typically gets a talking to or whatever else. A battlerager fights a non-enemy due to some scuffling but doesn't have a history of it? He gets chastised and told to act right. In my entire experience of playing CF, I've rarely ever seen a toss for a first error kinda thing. That's part of what biases how I think about it.

Should it be so that those above given examples get immediate uninducts or something like that? You could argue it, but that's definitely not my view in general, and I'm clearly not partial to it outside of exceptional negative circumstances.

As to Vindicator, keep in mind it's not a leadership position. It doesn't have leader con or anything like that. It doesn't even have decision-making authority outside of very specific circumstances and situations. So in this situation, nobody had a leader position to lose. Vindicator/Justiciar are closer to third-branch / alternate paths somewhat separate from Magistrate to Provincial to Provost.

Anyway, I hope that gives you some context generally about how I view things, and why I would handle things the way I do. All the same I appreciate the feedback, and I promise that no situation like that is a simple glance and just whimsically tossed internal punishment. It normally results in a hefty look, discussion, and so on.

Sorry I “wasted my time” by responding to you (I don’t get why you said that), and I hope this doesn’t turn you off more, but instead that it gives you some extra context for how things might be decided.

Good job with Ihjezhed, I generally liked what I saw from him. If you felt a bit bored due to lack of enemies, like someone else said… Roll up a mage. Heck, do an evil mage, then just hang around Battle and Fort and you should barely have room to breathe. Sometimes general shifts in cabals, etc. result in a surplus/lack of enemies. So just switch to the underdog!

-Ish

I never realized Vindecator and Justicars were not leadership positions with none of the be edits like leader con. I get they get induct and therefore don't get the leader EP per edgepoint specifics (is that even right?).

But to counter, they are listed as Leadership in the book in the library. They are titled different from Magistrates. Given their own unique powers. For God's sake they have their own rooms enshrining them!

Correct. They only get what you see on help vindicator and help justiciar, nothing else.

They do not get the leader edge bonus (since they can't induct).

They are 'leadership' only in the fashion (as per the books) of their respective path. The book listing the "tribunal chain of command" (which doesn't specify leader) even has a note at the bottom:

"* Justiciars and Vindicators fall under the rule of the Provost in all
situations except those pertaining directly to their specialties, namely
investigations for Justiciars and the apprehending of fugitives for the
Vindicators."

And yeah, they have their own fancy rooms. Rooms I should really update sometime mainly for the list of people who have had the position... I swear, I'll do it, don't beat me!

-Ish

NO TEXT

While it is a shame, I really do appreciate the feedback. Ill take it down and hopefully get better at that in the future.

I will mention that, as I try to make it clear with all of my followers, Ergush's religion is not meant to be a "complete everything in 3 weeks" kind of thing. If I hand you one of the tasks and you return in a day, there is a VERY high chance I am going to straight ignore it.

I thought this was a great character, I was a big fan.

I can totally understand the gripes you mention but sometimes people get busy or whatnot and sadly it can affect interaction. I hope you give it another shot and maybe try a different direction since its never one size fits all in CF.

Take care,

Aylosi

>
>Three or four real sources of frustration and, honestly, some
>anger. First was the total hypocrisy and ridiculousness of
>what happened with Sqierna. Her elemental attacks someone in
>Hamsah. That person is not wanted. It's a pure and simple
>violation of the primary law, no attacking in town. I've
>played long enough to know that it's always been the rule that
>archons/angels/devils/elemental/demons are considered the
>conjurer for such purposes, when they attack a pc. It's like
>if a rager were to quaff a potion (if not hardcoded,
>obviously), or an outlander going and buying adamantite from a
>city shopkeeper and wearing it. Or a maran grouping with an
>antipaladin and killing goodie orphans. It's violation of the
>fundamental rule of the organization. And not just a regular
>person, but a vindicator.
>
>What happened? No punishment. I'm sure Ishuli will come and
>say there was some internal punishment of some sort, but
>please don't waste your time. Having to write something?
>Having to spend time on something? Come on. Not just not
>losing leader status, not getting booted from the cabal at
>all. You can't even apply if you've committed a crime, now
>you have a leader who has. It *really* turned me off to the
>game, seeing an imm handle it this way. There's already a lot
>of problems with people not paying consequences for rp
>decisions, this was just a bridge too far.


Accidentally smacking someone with your trans-planar elemental
friend is completely benign and not worth the effort of punishment.

If it seems like Tribs aren't held to the same standards of conduct
as real life police it's because they're not. It's incomparable,
getting smacked around once in game doesn't have any consequence
long term for them like a cop accidentally blowing your brains out
because of an itchy trigger finger, especially in the context of
CF where you magically rematerialize after ten minutes because of;
"Serious RP environment"

Sent from my Iphone

"Accidentally smacking someone with your trans-planar elemental
friend is completely benign and not worth the effort of punishment.

If it seems like Tribs aren't held to the same standards of conduct
as real life police it's because they're not. It's incomparable,
getting smacked around once in game doesn't have any consequence
long term for them like a cop accidentally blowing your brains out
because of an itchy trigger finger, especially in the context of
CF where you magically rematerialize after ten minutes because of;
"Serious RP environment""

The game provides certain mechanisms in place for just this, albeit not directly to conjurers (they get the noelem command though!). Speaking of edges for those in tribunal (invoker, bards) not to hit citizen/unwanted, ones for the light even if I'm not entirely mistaken, ones for outlander to better avoid creatures at home in the wilderness, etc. So it's obviously taken into account, and I've always felt that was the huge counter-balance to a conjurer in tribunal, plus the aim of RP since some creatures you can call, arguably shouldn't in the tribunal's repertoire depending how order focused they are.

I think there could be mechanical ways to deal with it (this assuming coding could be done), but say, suspension of some kind... limited power effectiveness for so many hours, like a week in game minimum. Or the suspension would require you to be on shift for so long as a way to pay back without earning pay and some combination of penalty otherwise. etc

I think the debate including RL police is just an apples and oranges argument. It shouldn't be compared to that. However, there should be the inherent reason a conjurer in tribunal comes with some do's and especially do NOTs cause they get some great powers compared to any other class that sync real well with the purpose of a tribunal.

That's what happens when they raid.

I question the character of the guy complaining though, just based on the way he's talking to everyone, and I have the sneaking suspicion this is a bunch of stupid crap.

i.e., guy fights the conjurer in raid, then realizes he can run into his elem on purpose while he's on duty or sit at his pit waiting for him to recall and then cry foul when he knows exactly what is going to happen. It's certainly been done before.

Now if that wound up being the case, maybe the answer is to just not act like a retard on purpose. Seems like that would solve the problem.

Also, warrants have been dropped for non-tribs before for honest mistakes, depending on leadership. So whether or not it's the same standard has historically depended on who is calling the shots.

Losing powers for raiding non-enemy cabals makes sense because
you're reflecting poorly on your own team. I can't see having
Ishuli/other imms chasing down people to drop their powers
for a couple hours or coding an automated system for it would
be worth the time.

Sent from my Iphone

The incident in question wasn't me being attacked. It was another rager who asked me to write as a witness. I wasn't even in range at the time, just happened to be in hamsah at the right time.

A lot of victim blaming going around. That's disappointing.

Anyway, perhaps you could just stop posting, you're just a troll.

It's a shame you went out this way because this is who you are now to everyone.

I said my only knowledge of the situation came from your post and
Ishuli's, never said you were attacked.

Sent from my Iphone

My reply wasn't to you, it was to Rob.

I only have context for what happened from this thread. Posters' account and Ishuli's seem to agree that it was a one off mistake,
from my perspective punishing that, at least as strongly as Ihj
wants isn't really worth the trouble over something that minor.

My only opinion on it really boils down to fun over RP, because I
really don't consider CF to be that rp intensive to begin with.
Trib is already a fun impaired cabal and tossing around demotions
and uninductions over accidents is a really fast way to kill any
incentive to play one.

Sent from my Iphone

Sounds as if the code exists in a sense and otherwise would seem very easy to code since other than the spire itself, any attack on a non criminal could qualify for a mark in that regard, plus then be a hidden counter to track how many times it happens.

I'm not personally arguing for removal or even demotion, but then that counter system could be visible to spire leaders which then they could play with policy. 3 marks and demoted to seantryn modem, etc

Additionally, exploiting such is a tactic... Say conjure is in Gallatin and he night gone the person and they recalled to the desert city now the Conjurer is breaking the law

nt

Sent from my Iphone

but you witnessed literally every my PK when was young. This made me smile and I always loved to drink this ale even right prior to engage the enemies. Cheers! Sad I didn't witnessed you being a hero and DM as well, but to keep running after two missed Rites (which was the main goal when I joined the village) was beyond my motivation. Well done!

I was always impressed how well you survivied. You seemed to be able to take a lot more damage than a low con race should have, even with your high end gear. It was real fun to watch knowing that I intended to be in the village with you later. Sadly, while we did have a few logins together, they were few and then you deleted. Really did make me sad. Leveling up I had real visions of having a lot of hero villagers to roll with and explore and have fun.

Always thought you were fun and really appreciated you diving in to my rp and working with it and making it better with your own rp back. So thanks very much for that and well done!

No punishment

So you just have to excuse Squierna, I'm sure she had a fine excuse too

Regardless of how I acted IC I very much enjoyed your char. GLWYN!

Really liked you as a follower and enjoyed our interactions. Sad to see you go. I know my schedule is a bit odd how it fluctuates and I hope that was not a big factor in your deletion. GLWYN!

Well this sucks. Ihjezhed was pretty awesome. I had a special fondness for your character since I got to know you right away from level 1 at the Inn after the Gaspare reveal.

I was impressed that you seemed to have your RP fleshed out right away. I know I often get an idea for a build I want to try and roll it up and then start filling in the RP/role stuff later.

You took balance as a legacy right? How did you like it on that build? What was your other legacy?

Hope you had fun. Great character.

Did you intentionally name yourself Jizzhead?

And I thought it was because he was a packers fan "I Cheese Head"