There are a number of stories and incidents from 12+ years of Carrion Fields to which the truth has never been told. In that vacuum, the version some bozo made up gets enshrined in CF urban legend as fact.

Here's your chance to ask for the scoop on any of the many tall tales passed around through the years. Scandals, conspiracy theories, or outright accusations of Cador ####ing a donkey are welcome for this contest. Questions? Post 'em if you got 'em!

Sebeok and I will get drunk one night, pick some favorites, and dish the dirt.

Edit: Let me tack on that while we'll consider them on a case by case basis, I probably will not answer whether an active immortal played a given mortal or not. I'm not currently interested in talking about which ones were and weren't mine, and I don't feel right talking about any other active imm's without their prior permission. Professional courtesy, yo! (Stories about characters we've already copped to playing are a different situation.)

We can re-open this if there's interest, but let's not crush other contests by bumping this massive thread further.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I don't know if you are even still looking at this thread anymore or if the question even belongs in here, but I am curious about something.

My first PC on here ever was a cloud warrior about 2 and a half years ago. I was level 8 and a thief asked me if I wanted a midnight dragon piece of armor. I had no idea and said "sure!" He handed it to me, I put it on and I got a prompt saying something like "Your head feels funny" or something like that. He gave me a potion and told me to drink it, and I did automatically. Next thing I'm at my hometown healer and a ghost. I had no idea what happened but I came back to my corpse (market square) and he was laughing, I had no money or food any more. What happened?? I asked a couple people IC and nobody had any idea. any hints?? I have never heard or seen it again since.

And so it goes...

Mind control contact poison on the armor? That's just a guess.

You also might have been high when this happened.

>You also might have been high when this happened.

Definately not going to rule that one out...

And so it goes...

Current rumors include :

Valg called Yoshimi on the phone about the 'leaks' during the Cabdru/Nepenthe/Yoshimi situation and because of this Alenysi and Dalteric(I could be wrong on this particular regard) were forced to 'resign' because they were in fact the ones who leaked said story. Yoshimi was allowed back to CF because he revealed his sources to Valg on the phone.


Questions include:

Who 'leaked' the source code Abandoned Realms 'stole'?

How much of CF is 'unexplored', relatively speaking? Are there areas/parts of areas that have yet to have mortals set foot in them?

Something in the thread about Dullameh/Ptain/Muubai intrigued me. You said it was impossible for an imm to strip an affect with no echo to the effect that it had happened. I find this hard to believe, as this ability certainly exists on many of your competitors/derivatives. Are you SURE that no one did an affstrip Muubai fireshield? Can imm commands like this even be checked?

Whoops. I unqueued this and then got distracted by my job.

>Current rumors include :
>
>Valg called Yoshimi on the phone about the 'leaks' during the
>Cabdru/Nepenthe/Yoshimi situation and because of this Alenysi
>and Dalteric(I could be wrong on this particular regard) were
>forced to 'resign' because they were in fact the ones who
>leaked said story. Yoshimi was allowed back to CF because he
>revealed his sources to Valg on the phone.

Yeah... no. This just doesn't even see plausible to me.

####, if you were Valg, would you give a guy like that your phone number?

>Questions include:
>
>Who 'leaked' the source code Abandoned Realms 'stole'?

I don't really remember the details, but it was pre-me-on-staff, so, a pretty old copy of the code. Infrastructure in place for cabals and PK ranges, some of the old anti-paladin/ninja/ranger/paladin stuff, etc. I think depending on who you ask Morgath either gave the code away or was stupid enough to leave it somewhere people could just take it, and they did. BoltThrower would be the guy to ask for the story here.

>How much of CF is 'unexplored', relatively speaking? Are there
>areas/parts of areas that have yet to have mortals set foot in
>them?

Whole areas... probably not. I'd guess a decent significant chunk of Hell has never been seen, but I'm not really sure. There are certainly parts of other areas that are rarely seen whether or not they have been at some point.

>Something in the thread about Dullameh/Ptain/Muubai intrigued
>me. You said it was impossible for an imm to strip an affect
>with no echo to the effect that it had happened. I find this
>hard to believe, as this ability certainly exists on many of
>your competitors/derivatives. Are you SURE that no one did an
>affstrip Muubai fireshield? Can imm commands like this even be
>checked?

Positive; we don't have one of those. I can see why you'd want one just for testing purposes; for whatever reason, Galadriel back in the day settled on just making very high level imm cancel/dispel nuke all affects regardless of what they are, instead. It works well enough for anything I'd want to do with an affstrip or whatever so there's never really been any incentive for me to put time into changing it.

>>Who 'leaked' the source code Abandoned Realms 'stole'?
>
>I don't really remember the details, but it was
>pre-me-on-staff, so, a pretty old copy of the code.
>Infrastructure in place for cabals and PK ranges, some of the
>old anti-paladin/ninja/ranger/paladin stuff, etc. I think
>depending on who you ask Morgath either gave the code away or
>was stupid enough to leave it somewhere people could just take
>it, and they did. BoltThrower would be the guy to ask for the
>story here.

AR didn't actually steal the code, but the code was actually 'aquired' twice. The code was originally aquired by the folks at Paradise Lost, who started up a mud on another server. Someone on staff at the time (I refuse to name names so don't even ask me to, I'm making an effort to inform without turning this into a flamefest) contacted the host of AR and told them (incorrectly since at that time CF was still obligated under the license agreement, bear in mind this is something like 12 years ago) that the staff of Paradise Lost had stolen copyrighted code, and started threatening legal action. The host company, not knowing under the license agreement that the code (In the state it was in at the time, I don't know about now) COULDN'T be copywritten, took down the mud and turned over the source to whichever staff member that it was. According to someone from the staff of Paradise Lost, changes THEY had made to the code were then incorporated into CF's code. I can't back this up with firsthand knowledge, but this did come directly from one of the coders. The code was left by Morgath in an unsecure place that gave someone else access to it.

The second time code was jacked was by (If my facts are straight) Stormace. Stormace stopped being an imm when it got out that he had been letting his friends log his immortal in to create and set eq for themselves. The staff at the time (rightly) smacked down Stormace and he was booted from the staff. He went on to start DarkMists with a few other disgruntled CFers, and provided them with the code. It was after this that more serious steps were taken to prevent a repeat, and access to copies of the code were more restricted. Interesting bit of trivia, he wound up getting kicked off of the staff of DarkMists for pretty much the same thing that got him the boot from CF. In a petulant fit he publicly released the code, and I think its still available as the Oblivion code.

History lesson is over for today kiddies.

Let's see:

>AR didn't actually steal the code, but the code was actually
>'aquired' twice. The code was originally aquired by the folks
>at Paradise Lost, who started up a mud on another server.
>Someone on staff at the time (I refuse to name names so don't
>even ask me to, I'm making an effort to inform without turning
>this into a flamefest) contacted the host of AR and told them
> incorrectly since at that time CF was still obligated under
>the license agreement, bear in mind this is something like 12
>years ago) that the staff of Paradise Lost had stolen
>copyrighted code, and started threatening legal action. The
>host company, not knowing under the license agreement that the
>code (In the state it was in at the time, I don't know about
>now) COULDN'T be copywritten, took down the mud and turned
>over the source to whichever staff member that it was.

I'm sorry, but you're very mistaken on a key detail here. The DIKU license says, essentially, that the DIKU team credits can't be eliminated and that you can't profit from DikuMud. It certainly does not say that derivative works may not be copywrited -- in fact, the DIKU license is (by nature of hte rights it reserves/forbids) strictly incompatible with all of the leading open source licenses.

>According to someone from the staff of Paradise Lost, changes
>THEY had made to the code were then incorporated into CF's
>code. I can't back this up with firsthand knowledge, but this
>did come directly from one of the coders.

I don't know enough to say either way, but to be fair, I'm sure they had some hard feelings at the time and that their opinions after they were shut down were somewhat less than favorable or unbiased.

>The code was left by
>Morgath in an unsecure place that gave someone else access to
>it.

As I indicated in the grandparent post, that is one of a few conflicting versions of the story that I've heard, each from people who should know the truth. It could be the correct one, but I'm not convinced it is.

>The second time code was jacked was by (If my facts are
>straight) Stormace. Stormace stopped being an imm when it got
>out that he had been letting his friends log his immortal in
>to create and set eq for themselves. The staff at the time
> rightly) smacked down Stormace and he was booted from the
>staff. He went on to start DarkMists with a few other
>disgruntled CFers, and provided them with the code. It was
>after this that more serious steps were taken to prevent a
>repeat, and access to copies of the code were more restricted.
>Interesting bit of trivia, he wound up getting kicked off of
>the staff of DarkMists for pretty much the same thing that got
>him the boot from CF. In a petulant fit he publicly released
>the code, and I think its still available as the Oblivion
>code.

From what I know of Stormace in the time leading up to his leaving the CF staff, I'd be really surprised if he had access to the source code, but I can't say for sure. Again, that's probably a BT question if we wanted the CF-ranking-staff-at-the-time side of it.

Yeah, but is *not explicitly forbidding* the same thing as granting you that right?

The relevant bit is :

"Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. The owner is generally the author or someone who has obtained rights from the author."

I'm not entirely sure a usage license constitutes the above.

Any time you modify a work, the changes are yours, unless you explicitly give the rights back to the original authors. We were neither expected nor required to do so.

Again, if DIKU called us tomorrow and wanted to publish our code, we can very legally say "No.". That said, we do obey the letter and spirit of all applicable licenses, and always have. If we didn't, they could theoretically revoke our right to use the work, but they still couldn't publish or use our version.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Nearly every line of what you wrote dealing with copyright is complete BS. I have no idea where you got that interpretation from.

I'm not a lawyer, but my work deals with patent/copyright issues on a regular basis, and I have sat down with lawyers and gone over these issues. (I also have a little formal coursework on the topic of intellectual property, though not nearly enough to qualify me as any sort of legal scholar.) Also, the last time I sat down with the attorney who handles my patent applications, I asked some general questions relevant to MUDs (at the time, for background about a case involving another game), and they confirmed the general understanding I already had.

Any derivative literary work, CF's content included, is automatically the copyright of the author in the United States. A work by shared authors cannot legally be used without the consent of all parties.

CF is allowed to modify ROM as part of the license agreement, which we have always honored. Our modification does not alter their copyright on their original material. As soon we added a single line, CF had a unique derivative of ROM. Even with all the changes we've made, we're still a derivative work of ROM. Even if we continued to modify the code until every line of ROM was overwritten, we would be a derivative work. The only way to avoid being a derivative would be what is commonly called a "clean room" implementation, where we started with a blank page and wrote our own, new code. We've never done that, or claimed to.

While Carrion Fields did not register any copyrights until much later, that is irrelevant to the ownership of the copyright under U.S. law. Just as you cannot steal the work of an author or artist, you cannot steal the work of a programmer. (If someone hires you, it belongs to the employer, not the employee, but that obviously doesn't apply here.) From the United States Copyright Office:

Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright.

...

Mere ownership of a book, manuscript, painting, or any other copy or phonorecord does not give the possessor the copyright. The law provides that transfer of ownership of any material object that embodies a protected work does not of itself convey any rights in the copyright.

...

The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright... Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is “created” when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time.

...

A work that was created (fixed in tangible form for the first time) on or after January 1, 1978, is automatically protected from the moment of its creation and is ordinarily given a term enduring for the author’s life plus an additional 70 years after the author’s death.

...

Any or all of the copyright owner’s exclusive rights or any subdivision of those rights may be transferred, but the transfer of exclusive rights is not valid unless that transfer is in writing and signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or such owner’s duly authorized agent.

...


A “derivative work,” that is, a work that is based on (or derived from) one or more already existing works, is copyrightable if it includes what the copyright law calls an “original work of authorship.” Derivative works, also known as “new versions,” include such works as translations, musical arrangements, dramatizations, fictionalizations, art reproductions, and condensations. Any work in which the editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications represent, as a whole, an original work of authorship is a derivative work or new version.

Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. The owner is generally the author or someone who has obtained rights from the author."

Carrion Fields has the express, written consent of the DIKU and ROM teams to use their code to create derivative works, so long as we obey their license (or successfully challenge its legality in court). Without similar notice from all parties who made additions to the CF code, no one is allowed to use the CF derivative work as the basis for their own derivative work. (They could, of course, download ROM and begin from there, just as we did, because the ROM team gives you the right to make derivatives in the license. Carrion Fields does not.)

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Not sure how I missed this one, but regarding what you can or cannot copyright, per the US Copyright office:

What Works Are Protected?
Copyright protects “original works of authorship” that are fixed in a tangible form of expression. The fixation need not be directly perceptible so long as it may be communicated with the aid of a machine or device. Copyrightable works include the following categories:

literary works;
musical works, including any accompanying words
dramatic works, including any accompanying music
pantomimes and choreographic works
pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works
motion pictures and other audiovisual works
sound recordings
architectural works
These categories should be viewed broadly. For example, computer programs and most “compilations” may be registered as “literary works”; maps and architectural plans may be registered as “pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works.”

Source code is no different from writing a story or poem, or painting a picture. Unless you agree to terms beforehand (as all staff do during orientation), you're the owner.

Now, you're free to go and make a MUD that is like CF, just as we are free to codify ideas that are similar to published RPGs, or write works inspired by existing authors or public domain sources (elves, fairies, etc.). What you cannot do without breach of copyright is copy our content outright. The details of what is "inspired" and what is "copied" are a matter for the lawyers and courts, but suffice to say if you're found using word-for-word reproductions of someone else's code without their permission, a cease-and-desist letter is readily justified and a relatively easy victory.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

We're sort of meandering off topic here, because as far as the original point goes, it doesn't matter what would happen in a court of law if the legality of CF code copyright were tried. I agree that I think it would hold up, but it's not the issue at hand here.

(Granted, this whole discussion assumes that the telephone game of what was said from BT to ISP to other-mud-people to Vlad didn't lose anything important in the translation, which anyone who played the telephone game as a kid probably takes with a grain of salt.)

BT's not a lawyer. BT back in 1994 is especially not a lawyer; he's a college kid running a MUD. He's a guy who's protective of his stuff. Would it be reasonable for him to think team-other-mud-guys had stolen his (and Derit et al's) work and that he had a right to demand they not be able to run a game based on it? I can't see how any reasonable person would say no.

It doesn't really matter how they came by said code. They knew where it came from and it's safe to say they knew the authors of it (at least, the CF-original parts of it, which even in the earliest days of CF include some things you'd probably take for granted, like cabals and PK ranges) didn't want them using it. They don't have the moral high ground there.

You'd have to have a pathological, irrational hatred of BT to assume there's some arch underhanded plot behind him seeing that other people are using CF's code and going "Hey, they can't steal my stuff! Make them stop!"

This kind of thing is a lot of why Vlad has a reputation for making #### up. I don't think he's trying to deceive anyone with this account, per se -- I just think he's taking things people told him which may or may not have been exaggerated as gospel truth, settling on an extreme interpretation of those events which makes people he likes look as good as possible and people he likes look as bad as possible, and further deciding that anyone who doesn't share that interpretation is obviously wrong. I don't think any of that is intentional on his part, but it does hold up something sort of comical (20 year old BT as deceptive copyright legal scholar) as truth.

>Nearly every line of what you wrote dealing with copyright is
>complete BS. I have no idea where you got that interpretation
>from.

It's how it was explained to me x number of years ago when all this was going on. Way back when, it wasn't uncommon for imps to sit around BSing with players for hours on end. Morgath and Loki and I were talking about it not long after the source was distributed, and Loki asked Morgath "Did Matt or Barb get the copywrite rights?" and Jay launched into this long monologue about copywrite law and why the staff couldn't copywrite it. Loki and I spent most of the time speculating over whether or not Morgath had ever seen a real live vagina, and snickering a lot.

For what it's worth I'm glad you replied to this, instead of just burying it. It clears up a lot of misconceptions, and I think thats good for everyone. Kudos.

Yeah, Morgath didn't really know what he was talking about. I could understand why a lot of the players liked him but he was a bit of a weird dude.

That explains why you thought the copyright dealie worked that way and therefore a lot of your take on the story. I was pretty puzzled by that.

That's the "common misconception" mentioned in the Copyright Office's FAQ-- that you have to do something besides author the creative work to hold the copyright. Registering a copyright is basically a way to fortify your position should a court battle ensue, but is optional and irrelevant if all the facts are sufficiently documented.

If I'm walking by Steven King's house and I find a heretofore-unknown draft in his trash, I'm not allowed to claim it's mine, publish it, distribute it, etc. without his permission. This is even true if he threw it in a trashcan in the park. Even if I didn't know who wrote it, it's not mine.

If I did start 'using' it, and he could prove the original draft was his (in the case of code, typically somewhat easy relative to art, etc., due to server logs, dated documentation of changes, practical side-by-side comparisons, etc.), at the very least he could reclaim the work in question and stop me. Depending on what I did with it, he could sue for damages, including punitive measures.

I'd imagine that back in 1994 or 1995 when this occurred, it was a lot tougher to find the primary sources without a trip to the (*shiver*) local law school library, and even if you got there, finding the "FAQ" version of the copyright process probably wasn't simple. But all that went down is that an author wanted his work to remain his. I'd do the same thing today if someone tried to set up a copycat CF based on our code, though we're in a much stronger legal position thanks to being incorporated, registered, better organized, etc.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I don't think anyone questions that. Obviously lets say I write a book, unless I abandon my copyright its mine.

Now, the thing is, edits are different, requiring express written consent of the originator, herein I'm not sure whether a usage license qualifies.

Now, the question is, written consent of what? The US Dept of Copyright states the original author by default is the only person who can copyright a derivative work and others acting with his permission. You see what I mean? I still don't think the CF codebase is copyrightable because its a derivative work and I somehow doubt DIKU sent you something in writing to the effect of the above. Now, if they did, obviously that invalidates my point. But if they didn't, how sure are you that your copyright would hold up in court?

The copyright Office's FAQ on derivative works is at:

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.html

Basically, if you make non-cosmetic modifications to the code (even then, things like PK ranges and cabals were in), all of those modifications automatically fall under your copyright and cannot be used by others. That version belongs to you.

ROM/Merc/DIKU's creators retain the copyright on their respective works, and our work (of course) is no hindrance to whatever they choose to do with it. They cannot, however, publish our version of the code without our consent, because that would violate our copyright on that version.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

It's copyright, as in the right to copy, not copywrite.

Thank you.

I'm not entering the fray on the issues regarding who had what rights to what material, etc. At least not until someone wants to pony up the 530/hr my firm charges for my time. Though for you, my cf pals, I'd ask for a little discount of course....

"I'm not entering the fray on the issues regarding who had what rights to what material, etc. At least not until someone wants to pony up the 530/hr my firm charges for my time."

Is that in dollars, or sweet, sweet unicorn pendants?

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

~

You should know the answer to that, Mr. Smartypants. What firms charge for employee time doesn't go to the employee. It goes to the firm. The firm has no desire for pendants. So it gets the dollars.

I take my paltry salary and buy pendants myself of course.

Yeah, you have a usage agreement. I was under the impression being able to use something and having permission to apply for a derivative copyright were two separate things. E.g, I modify Apache's base code. I cannot claim copyright on that code, it would be violate to the nature of the terms of use. So, basically what you're stating is because DIKU's license doesn't specifically have terms regarding distribution of derivative code that by default you can copyright?

Who does the onus lie on, you to prove you have permission to copyright edits, or DIKU to state you can't?

When you give other people permission to use and modify your work, you do not own the copyright unless they explicitly give it to you.

If you modify Apache's code (assuming the license allows it... I don't know anything about Apache), you can copyright the portion that you modified. Apache can't publish that without your permission, etc., and even if you let them, they would have to acknowledge you as the author.

All of this can change if you were their employee or had some other contractual agreement in advance, of course. This is why new staff members sign a contract with us, why we have Terms of Service available for the usage of our game and website, etc.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>E.g, I modify
>Apache's base code. I cannot claim copyright on that code, it
>would be violate to the nature of the terms of use.

Actually, I believe you can; at least, you can claim copyright on your changes. Apache's license is a little different than, say, the FreeBSD license or GPL, all of which of course are moderately different from the Diku license. Apache's license is a bit like Diku's in some ways, especially in the idea that you can create derivative works and they're yours, so long as you keep the original's credits/license info essentially intact in your version.

Obviously Wikipedia isn't the Bible or anything, but you might find their article on the Apache license an interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_License

Keep in mind as Valg said if the owners of the original expressly
give permission to make changes, then legally the changes are yours.
No matter what you do, it is still a derivative, but a derivative
work is not theirs.

from the diku license:


You are allowed to alter DikuMud, source and documentation as long as
you do not violate any of the above stated rules.

So from that, if you violate the rules laid out in the diku
license, you lose permission.
This part is where I think people got confused along the way.
They assumed because diku credits stayed in all this stuff
through merc and rom etc... that the rights still belonged
to diku.
No they stayed in because to take them out takes away
your permission to make changes. If you have permission to make
changes the changed version is yours, if you don't, it isn't.

Does that make sense?

Valg called Yoshimi on the phone about the 'leaks' during the Cabdru/Nepenthe/Yoshimi situation and because of this Alenysi and Dalteric(I could be wrong on this particular regard) were forced to 'resign' because they were in fact the ones who leaked said story. Yoshimi was allowed back to CF because he revealed his sources to Valg on the phone.

1) In that same conversation, Yoshimi also claimed to have an apology email from Nepenthe, except it looked like it was written by a retarded third grader. Nepenthe may be one crazy bastard, but he is not retarded in the slightest, and can compose complete sentences.

2) Neither Alenysi nor Dalteric were forced to resign. Alenysi was, however, told in no uncertain terms that spending her time gossiping about the personal lives of staff (and accusing them of cheating, based on hearsay which I could disprove via logged information) was unacceptable. She chose to resign some time afterwards after negative feedback about her area. Dalteric resigned on his own sometime after that, and has never given us an exact reason to my knowledge.

3) I don't think I've ever called a player about CF, and I wouldn't start by calling someone from my home, work, or cell to have a conversation about how I think they have a penchant for distributing personal information in an irresponsible manner. I get plenty of CF-related email, and I'm not interested in expanding into getting phone calls every time some yahoo is upset because we changed the number of coins on the fourth kobold from the left.

#### if I know why someone would make up the phone call thing, except possibly a sad need to be seen as 'connected'. But it's ####.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

1800-I-LV-VALG will in fact get you someone that will tell you they love you for only a couple dollars a minute. Yeah I need more to do with my time at work, or at least not be so damn curious.

all other things being equal (stats, no extra enhancing skills and so on) are there class benifits to defenses. ie will an arial thief dodge exactly the same as a an arial warrior or arial bard. I was just always curious about this.

All things being equal... no class based differences. Obviously you're going to see a difference if the arial thief and arial warrior are both trying to dodge whip or axe attacks or whatever.

Is it true that in order to attain elemental mastery of a path that you only have to perfect the very last spell in that path?

Or do you have to perfect every single spell that comes along that path in order to attain mastery?

thanks.

You generally only accrue benefits from having 'main path' spells mastered. So, for example, earth ripple won't help your avalanche and whispering wind won't help your vortex or whatever.

Nepe did you change one of the affects of 5th control after Greddarh got it? I found that two first days it was much better though it was quite powerful(or too powerfull ).

I tweaked it down a bit at one point because I happened to realize the way it had been didn't account for something important. I thought that was before Greddarh had it, but I might be wrong.

to become a sul'shedni for pc character ?

Not currently, even if you have the sul'shedni legacy and repeat the secret phrase backwards three times fast.

Let's keep this thread to conspiracy stuff from here on out though, ok?

why Silent Tower has no food merchant archmage ?
people have to spend there about XXX hours, so some BIG magic mushrooms (thar-acacians are unsavory) would be nice

That is a stupid question.

Seriously, though:

1) To some small degree, needing various supplies that aren't easily available in the area is part of the challenge.

2) I don't think any of the Archmagi there really need to eat.

3) The best reason, which won't be mentioned here because it spoils a surprise!

"3) The best reason, which won't be mentioned here because it spoils a surprise!"

Ugh. Actually there are multiple surprises there. Few are pleasant, period. Ugh. Imagine my chagrin

It's a design theme of the area to take things you take for granted as a player and make them kill you.

Yes, I am a sadist.

Yes, I have also died this way. Really. Quit laughing.

Hey, did my root thread post not get vis'd because it got lost or something?

Just curious, seems like a lot more inflammatory ones got answered.

Dunno -- we haven't worked through the whole queue yet, but I'm not seeing it in the pile either.

I was just wondering during the quest that changed the village with the Drow an all.... what would have happened if the Village had demolished
Darsylon like they asked or was the only outcome the one that we choose
that day?

Oh and what did the imms think when the battle was started prematurly
and the entire village was prettymuch wiped out and had to run, regroup and go in for another attack? I was laughing my ass off after I saw
the insane damage that they were doing to us and my groupmates were
dropping like flies...

This is probably a Thror question and I'm not sure if he's reading this.

1. Why will I never be cabal leader?
2. To Nepe. Did you know that shaman ooc? I mean shaman that was noticed with Cabdru a lot
3. Did you change mote of light?

P.S. Nep, my congratulation with marriage, I usualy react on forum's threads way too slow so I missed that threat eh. I wish I had someone to call my wife but... anyway it is another story.

>1. Why will I never be cabal leader?

I assume you'll get there sooner or later. I'm not running a cabal so I don't pick them, though.

For a long time I felt like Greddarh was really dependent on Ilgirinia. Once he came into his own I thought that he was a great character.

>2. To Nepe. Did you know that shaman ooc? I mean shaman that
>was noticed with Cabdru a lot

I could think of a few different characters you could mean; the blanket answer would be that in each case I had a pretty good idea of who the player was.

>3. Did you change mote of light?

They're still out there, same place as ever.

>P.S. Nep, my congratulation with marriage, I usualy react on
>forum's threads way too slow so I missed that threat eh. I
>wish I had someone to call my wife but... anyway it is another
>story.

Thanks!

"To Nepe. Did you know that shaman ooc? I mean shaman that
was noticed with Cabdru a lot "

He means Vandrylion. Who to me, was the funniest character ever.

"3. Did you change mote of light?"

First, you aren't supposed to give vague answers in this thread
Second, yes it was changed. I think all who know this item can tell how?

As to your marriage, whats up with the bachelor party man? Drinks on me in the Jade room!

>First, you aren't supposed to give vague answers in this
>thread
>Second, yes it was changed. I think all who know this item can
>tell how?

Or did I?

Anyway, this thread is supposed to be about conspiracies and not discuss everything mysterious from explore areas.

>As to your marriage, whats up with the bachelor party man?
>Drinks on me in the Jade room!

I've come to the conclusion that it needs to be in a foreign country where the troublesome things that are illegal here aren't, so much. Drinks and a strip club is too passe!

And I really disagree with him here. I could actually name about ten other characters that I noticed on when Cabdru was on, and while I can't say for a fact that Nepenthe does not know them, I would severly doubt it. In fact, if I am not mistaken, I actually bitch-ranked (heh, or more like was the best meat shield eva!) Cabdru as much as anyone. And of course, that's because I'm Nepenthe's illegitimate sons/second-cousins on his aunt's side.

And I also will never fogive Lyristeon for deleting Cabdru's death thread. I could give a flying you know what for the speculation and crap, but after all the damn work I did to get Vandrylon's note to Scion out in the public, for it to get deleted is a damn shame. A damn damn shame. BOOO!

So, since you and Vandrylon are brothers/lovers/co-workers/snoodle buddies and constantly perma, could you walk over to his house, kiss his wife, and tell him to post it again.

Note: The above could perhaps be a complete load of crap on my part. The note remains in limbo though ....

>And I really disagree with him here. I could actually name
>about ten other characters that I noticed on when Cabdru was
>on, and while I can't say for a fact that Nepenthe does not
>know them, I would severly doubt it. In fact, if I am not
>mistaken, I actually bitch-ranked (heh, or more like was the
>best meat shield eva!) Cabdru as much as anyone.

I like to think of it as me bitch-ranking you. At least, until the 'dillo came out.

Yes, I do know who Vandrylon was. I also enjoyed the hell out of that character -- I was a little surprised that no one jumped on that PBF.

One example of something I asked about earlier, namely one of those little tidbits of information that only a staff member or someone who can read the code would know, is this question:

Does your damage output (at least as a melee class like warrior, assassin, etc.) increase at the 0 levels, meaning at 20, then 30, then 40, then 50? I remember always feeling like the level 22 guy was hitting harder than my level 18 guy, when we had the same stuff.

The kind of thing you can feel like you see and believe, but like many other things can just as easily be the dark side of the force ####ing with you. If it's true, then obviously it's a nice thing to know if you know you are going to spend some time at some levels, so make sure it's the ones right after a ten level, rather than right before it....