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Top Non-CF Discussion "What Does RL Stand For?" Topic #2206
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MoligantThu 24-Oct-13 02:40 PM
Member since 29th Dec 2010
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#2206, "Is this simple or complicated to you...."


I told a co-worker that it would take an unarguable miracle for me to be a believer (im agnostic). I then described one possible kind of miracle to him because unlike most, for me something that happens rarely (for example his blind daughter is starting to be able to see shapes, doctors cannot explain why) is not a miracle persay specifically because it is so rare - something being unexplainable in other words doesn't mean that someday it will not BE explained.

A trillion in one chance is still a probability not a miracle.

So I proposed that a truer test of a miracle is having something probable happen so often it becomes improbable to the point of having to be a miracle. Like that one-in a trillon thing happening every day (specifically I mentioned what if you won the million dollar lottery in your state every day for the next two years) .

He said thats not a miracle and no christian would call it a miracle. Looked at me like I was crazy. I don't understand what is so hard to understand about the concept. PErhaps someone can tell me if I am being too complex or something?

Also for extra points try this on...

I also explained that it would be hard for me to accept proof of god NOT because I am dedicated to being agnostic but simply because I have no faith in my or anyone else's ability to IDENTIFY God if they met God.

I gave him an old argument of mine.

Specifically based on the old 'an advanced enough technology becomes indistinguishable from magic' argument, basically for me even if there IS a God (and I truly am open to the possibility - hope for it actually) how would I know God if I met them? I could believe I am speaking with THE God but in actuality be speaking with an advanced technological lifeform (alien) who is able to MY satisfaction 'prove' they are a God by performing 'miracles' which in actuality are not miracles but merely things I or any other human is incapable of doing (yet).

In other words, if God exists and he is everything we say he is then we as humans are not much different than ants in terms of perspective. If an ant looks up at a child standing next to an adult, from the ant's perspective there is very little difference because of the sheer difference in scale from its perspective.


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HOT TopicIs this simple or complicated to you.... [View all] , Moligant, Thu 24-Oct-13 02:40 PM
Reply A REAL miracle would be..., Lyristeon, 25-Oct-13 03:05 PM, #3
Reply Done it., Tsunami, 25-Oct-13 03:25 PM, #4
     Reply +1 nt, Artificial, 26-Oct-13 04:15 AM, #5
Reply "I'm agnostic", Artificial, 24-Oct-13 10:38 PM, #2
Reply Part of the problem is "defining God". , Eskelian, 07-Nov-13 02:19 AM, #6
     Reply Real Agnosticism, 1D_rookie, 16-Nov-13 12:04 AM, #7
     Reply Truly Without Knowledge, Artificial, 16-Nov-13 02:39 AM, #8
     Reply RE: Truly Without Knowledge, 1D_rookie, 17-Nov-13 09:01 AM, #12
     Reply It's been shown, incognito, 01-May-14 03:55 PM, #27
     Reply And until evidence arrives, Artificial, 16-Nov-13 02:42 AM, #9
          Reply Why?, Eskelian, 16-Nov-13 04:10 AM, #10
               Reply Ah...Mr. Pascal, I missed you., Artificial, 16-Nov-13 10:18 AM, #11
                    Reply RE: Ah...Mr. Pascal, I missed you., Eskelian, 17-Nov-13 11:23 AM, #13
                         Reply Montessori., Tsunami, 17-Nov-13 03:34 PM, #14
                         Reply RE: Montessori., Eskelian, 17-Nov-13 09:57 PM, #15
                         Reply RE: Ah...Mr. Pascal, I missed you., Daevryn, 01-Dec-13 09:51 AM, #16
                         Reply RE: Ah...Mr. Pascal, I missed you., Eskelian, 09-Dec-13 02:40 AM, #18
                              Reply I'll also point out..., Eskelian, 09-Dec-13 11:34 AM, #22
                                   Reply RE: I'll also point out..., Moligant, 09-Dec-13 01:54 PM, #23
                                        Reply RE: I'll also point out..., Eskelian, 10-Dec-13 04:42 AM, #24
                         Reply The more invested you are in this, the harder it is for..., Vortex Magus, 08-Dec-13 07:15 PM, #17
                         Reply RE: The more invested you are in this, the harder it is..., Eskelian, 09-Dec-13 02:43 AM, #19
                              Reply You think lack of religion causes depression?, Homard, 09-Dec-13 09:12 AM, #20
                                   Reply RE: You think lack of religion causes depression?, Eskelian, 09-Dec-13 11:09 AM, #21
                                        Reply I'm not going off the deep end., Homard, 10-Dec-13 08:11 AM, #25
                         Reply You can be communal without religion too., DurNominator, 13-Dec-13 10:31 AM, #26
Reply I think it's in what you termed a "miracle"., Straklaw, 24-Oct-13 04:35 PM, #1
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