Would it be possible to remove some impediments to shifters succesfully participating in lowbie to mid rank PK? The barriers I refer to is the ability to shift in combat and having controls.

The shapeshift spell/skill split is a relic from a system long gone. I don't see any good reason to not just remove the spell and give players the skill at level 14. I would also like to see the controls dropped to 2 levels after you get the spell so that lowbie shifters can actually try and use more than one form in the same fight without leaving themselves horribly exposed.

so move

shapeshift skill to 14
control levitation to 16
control speed to 20
control skin to 22
control phase to 26


I mean the worst thing that could happen is you get a handful of people who choose to play their shifters in the lower ranks rather then just power to final forms.

I think a decent case for this can be made but I don't feel that strongly about it.

The problem of the Carrion Fields leadership in a nutshell.

I killed a few villagers at 25 with my last shifter.
You dont really need controls if you are out damaging them.
Would these controls balance the game? I dont think so.

With mages it is all about prepping. I dont think taking away a
warriors chance to trip someone when they switch forms at low level
balances anything. They already have the advantage of
maybe "getting the supprise on you" by trying to trip the wrong
target when you switch forms. Will you likely fall for it next time?
Probably not. But completely taking away trip at level 16 (when
warriors get it at 15) isnt what I would call balanced. It just
makes trip a completely useless skill against a shifter.

I do agree that shifters could use a little help at that level.
Maybe some more lagging skills on a few forms.

There is also the problem with not really being able to increase
your damage with gear. Which is both a blessing and a curse.

Blessing = your damage is usually high on offensive froms and you can stack hp gear.
Curse = Cannot add to damage unless you are using some sort frenzy or berserk spell.

In general, you would lose HP due to trying to stack damage roll if it could transfer to in form.

Some people I could fight with my shifter and others would just
steam roll me. Which was highly gear dependant. Maybe also spec
dependant. Cant expect to kill everyone. And either way you do it
there are draw backs.

As the big wigs on PK balance I was wondering what your thoughts were about this potential change or your general thoughts on mid/low level shifter PK.

With these changes you become viable and can access all your forms in combat. As it is currently, the shifter is nerfed of it's true usefulness until it gets all his controls and by then it is so close to getting the major forms that the shifter powers to those ranks.

Very few shifters wait about at the mid ranks to PK and they rush ranking and rob their groups of RP experience so I think it would be a good change and not an overpowered one as they are still limited by the power of their forms.

*LIKE*

is that shifters will pretty much have everything key under the sun by level 30. I mean greater enlivens are after that but they are more like edges in terms of value added then most skills or spells.


If someone wanted to get crazy they could also make the partial shifts way cooler and put them in the 30's. I know they got changed to scale with level but I haven't played with that yet and even if they did it is still hard to justify any circumstance after rank 30 where you would want to be in a fight unshifter if you have the option of being in form.

Right now I think the only partial shift that gets regular use is horns of the bull followed by claws of the lion. I don't think anyone uses paws of the cheetah, tail of the lizard, or fangs of the serpent.

I would change them to

fangs of the serpent to aspect of the serpent. You get a 1-2 hp regen per round, you auto bite in combat for say dismembers and your fangs do neuro poison (confuse/forget/hold) with a duration of 0.

paws o the cheetah becomes aspect of the cheetah. You get the equivolent of average dodge on say a 24 dex form as well as minor skill/spell evasion

claws of the lion to aspect of the lion. Increased damage on your claw attacks and give them a chance to cause bleeding in much the same way that using a poison bite weapon has a chance to cause poison on each hit.

aspect of the bull. same as currently with the damage but add a random 0-2 round lag each time it hits the opponent like a beefy mino gore.

aspect of the lizard. like the snake grant 1-2 hp regen and do a sweeping tail attack randomly with damage similar to the current incarnation of horns of the bull except have it hit everyone fighting you + whoever you are fighting.

aspect of the bat. hear sneaking people and be able to see your inventory and opponent in a fight while blind.

I figure those bonuses could give you enough of a reason to join a fight out of form without being seriously OP. I think they could get really interesting in group fights, do you sacrifice the use of yuor offensive form for a few rounds in the hope you can land a neuro hold person with your fangs? Do you stand around unshifted with the ears to see people coming or the cheetah to try and avoid a crippling opening attack from an unseen foe? I think those are all decisions that could lead to more fun.


ohh and these would be bumped up to the 30's to give shifters something other then forms to look forward to.

When they are in form:

You can't steal from them

You can't do koteagaeshi or kansetsuwaza

You can't do weapon-reliant skills against them (Templar moves come to mind)

Innate haste, special form skills, and eventually access to the best damage reduction in the game.

They are far less gear dependent than other classes.


I just don't see them needing any more love; to me it's like saying all healers should be deathful, and pickpocket thieves should rack up pk wins.

>You can't steal from them

True.

>You can't do koteagaeshi or kansetsuwaza

I think this is false. Forms that are humanoid enough can be so debuffed.

>You can't do weapon-reliant skills against them (Templar moves
>come to mind)

False I think. HTH warrior/assassin etc. also disables Templar moves. And you can pincer etc. any form.

>Innate haste, special form skills, and eventually access to
>the best damage reduction in the game.

Uhh, no. This is like saying rangers get innate ambush? Not sure what your point is. Shifters will use their skills as any other class. The whole idea is to level out the fun curve really.

>They are far less gear dependent than other classes.

In the old days, yes. Currently, no. You still need to farm good gear as most everything carries over in some degree to your form.

>I just don't see them needing any more love; to me it's like
>saying all healers should be deathful, and pickpocket thieves
>should rack up pk wins.

Again, it's fun stick. The analogies here are just off I think.

I really like the idea of dropping some skill levels and the merge. Having partials with some effect at higher levels would be wonderful. I'd love to see one partial carry over into form with some added benefit. It would give added options/tactics to shifters. Maybe fold it into a control partial skill or some such. Right now partials are not really used. Ears of the bat has uses when you rest or are out of from. One of the offensive partials pre-form too, and that's really it. Not sure if anyone has explored the synergy with edges and really high partial %'s at hero, I know I have not. Heck, I'd love to see a control size and stature as well for reduce/enlarge and giant strength/some dexy counterpart. One can dream :)